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[Arttemis]

Just beat the game, listened to every tape, and I'm curious to hell to know more about the motives of the real Big Boss and the Phantom.

The entire premise of Cipher and the Zero is bizarre, though. All parties involved are looking out for Big Boss's best interest. Miller and Ocelot go along with his plans, and everyone worships The Boss. Skull Face throws a wrench in things, but the inability for the rest to function is just bizarre. Zero even says to Big Boss, "if you had only come to see me first", but goes along with an AI that eventually controls the world.

Considering the series' later plot, this whole world goes to shit due to the closest people to The Boss not being able to have a conversation. I can't say I'm suprised, though, because it seems just an awful an explanation of events as was the evolution from the back up crew from MGS3 to the Patriots.

 

[786110]

Kaz could've split his crippled anger with Chico.

Man Kaz was such a lovable goofus in PW and avuncular adviser in MG2 that him having a hardon for revenge just feels strange, granted I could understand why he was so irratated but I sort of wish we had a little bit more of Master Miller interspersed, stuff like this (which might be one of my favorite bits of Metal Gear writing) would have probably worked if Venom had any agency in seeking vengeance.

 

[Arttemis]

Again and again i keep going back to wishing this game was about the downfall of big boss into madness, instead of a doppleganger that has no personality.

It would've been so good to have allucinations from Big Boss... being haunted by his own demons.

While MGS5 wasn't about that, that's pretty much what we have to go on for Venom snake in the last cutscene. Intrude N313 begins, with no explanation was to why... and I can't help but think it's only in Venom's interest, not Big Boss's, so the shrapnel would be my thinking as to why.

 

[el_colibri]

Venom is when he feels like it. The fight scene and the funeral scene in particular stand out.

He is really nothing like Big Boss but is an incredibly charming character when he actually talks. I feel more wasted potential in Venom's characterization than I do in not playing Big Boss's downfall.

Also, who didn't love him and Kaz giving off Pulp Fiction vibes?

That scene too. Kojima was so inconsistent with Venom. Damnit. This is really frustrating.

One of the best games I've played all year yet I'm yearning for something entirely different.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Yes. Revenge. Men becoming Demon and then seeing what they've been doing wrong, going more Demon. Oldboy Style. Kojima failed this task, he wanted that shitty twist that wasn't needed, maybe because a lot of people expected this from him.

 

[rtcn63]

Chico over Medic as Venom would've been better. Even if his body looked like 20. They could've even have Venom slip into an accent on rare occasion to fuck with you.

 

[Deckard Chapel]

Man, I really looked forward to seeing Big Boss going insane and turn into the warmongering asshole he was in Metal Gear 1/2.

Really, the game would be much more interesting if it was about how the real Big Boss became corrupted by his anger with his perverted vision of what The Boss wanted and how he created his own nation etc.

And it would have made perfect sense too, were it not for a diva-like, insane director who has to copy everything he sees in movies [replete with goofy M.Night Shyamalan knee-jerk twists that have no lasting impact whatsoever] so that nothing creative happens at the conclusion of his life's work.

Kojima sucks nowadays. I'm sorry, but shit - what a let-down MGSV is/was.

If they don't DLC or patch the shit out of it, it will always be viewed as a tremendous failure in the eyes of the fans.

Lets get some canon cutscenes, missions and cut outfits/costumes back into the game to make it almost perfect!!!

 

[Chariot]

Also, who didn't love him and Kaz giving off Pulp Fiction vibes?

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

 

[CHC]

nvm

 

[Sub_Level]

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

Nice.

 

[Alienous]

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

lol

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

Hahahaha

This works on so many levels, damn

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

should be the next ot title

 

[Hystzen]

Also nevermind Kojima being a shit writer he is also a shit intel solider he got caught twice and had be rescued.

 

[Salaadin]

Then that's a 'too many cooks' situation, and ultimately the fault of Kojima.

I'm beginning to think you just don't like the man.

 

[Alienous]

should be the next ot title

"English, motherfucker, we still speak it"

I'm beginning to think you just don't like the man.

He's a genius game designer, and he has as much respect as I can give to anyone in the game industry for that. But ignoring continuity and being unwilling to tell the stories that need to be told to preserve said continuity make me think of him as a hack writer.

 

[liquidtmd]

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Again and again i keep going back to wishing this game was about the downfall of big boss into madness, instead of a doppleganger that has no personality.

It would've been so good to have allucinations from Big Boss... being haunted by his own demons.



So chico was navajo?

Maybe it was the english strain, who knows.

 

[brau]

Venom is when he feels like it. The fight scene and the funeral scene in particular stand out.

He is really nothing like Big Boss but is an incredibly charming character when he actually talks. I feel more wasted potential in Venom's characterization than I do in not playing Big Boss's downfall.

Also, who didn't love him and Kaz giving off Pulp Fiction vibes?

This scene... i kept shooting Skullface and getting this flashback to the hospital BB character. Until i didn't shoot and then he shot off SF arm and leg.

Whats up with that? Does this happen if you want to shoot Quiet?

 

[el_colibri]

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

Seems fitting.

 

[Ishida]

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."

Seems fitting.

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become quite a nice, cool and collected guy"

 

[CHC]

 

[el_colibri]

"You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become quite a nice, cool and collected guy"

With amazing hair.

 

[Novel Mike]

Alright I finished the game yesterday and today did Mission 45 (which promtly pissed me off because I didn't realize you would actually lose Quiet forever) and then did the final Paz cut scene which then just made me super depressed about the entire game.

Few questions still though...

So does fake BB show up in the later games? I can't really wrap me head around the fake being any version of BB in the later games due to the shrapnel but if hes not in any of the later games what was the point in even having this plot twist?

Is it ever stated or it is it yet another thing that makes the game unfinished? I'm baffled at the reviews that gave this game a 10/10 I know opinions and all but this game has problems over the place and thats without mentioning its clearly not a finished product.

 

[brau]

actually... this now reminded me of how MGSV is so close to being like Adaptation.

That movie... the one that was written by 2 different people. So you have the first half that is like a drama, and then the second bit is like a action really weird movie.

I do think there is 2 Kojimas.

#KojimasShadowLives

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Alright I finished the game yesterday and today did Mission 45 (which promtly pissed me off because I didn't realize you would actually lose Quiet forever) and then did the final Paz cut scene which then just made me super depressed about the entire game.

Few questions still though...

So does fake BB show up in the later games? I can't really wrap me head around the fake being any version of BB in the later games due to the shrapnel but if hes not in any of the later games what was the point in even having this plot twist?

Is it ever stated or it is it yet another thing that makes the game unfinished? I'm baffled at the reviews that gave this game a 10/10 I know opinions and all but this game has problems over the place and thats without mentioning its clearly not a finished product.

This is Venom

Metal Gear 1. He works with the real Boss but Snake screws up their plans and kills him. BB is also in MG1, but only as radio support.

 

[Alienous]

This is Venom

Metal Gear 1. He works with the real Boss but Snake screws up their plans and kills him. BB is also in MG1, but only as radio support.

Holy shit.

The first line of your post, then that image, is up there with the greatest things I've seen in this thread.

I laughed out loud.

 

[Anung]

Never was "English, motherfucker, do you speak it?!" more relevant.

Mmmmmmm, that is a tasty wolbachia.

 

[The Silver]

Chico over Medic as Venom would've been better. Even if his body looked like 20. They could've even have Venom slip into an accent on rare occasion to fuck with you.

Big Medic should've busted out random medical knowledge while Kaz just goes "wtf?"

 

[Drencrom]

Perfect

Kojima really chickened out here. Instead of having a game about what the real Boss did and became, he showed us what his boring, half-assed 'clone' was doing in Africa.

Or was the twist so important to him, that's it's worth wasting our time and tell a non-story instead of the actual story about Big Boss creation of Outer Heaven?

 

[Imm0rt4l]

Chico over Medic as Venom would've been better. Even if his body looked like 20. They could've even have Venom slip into an accent on rare occasion to fuck with you.

That would be even dumber tbh

 

[Alienous]

Big Medic should've busted out random medical knowledge while Kaz just goes "wtf?"

That would have been cool.

"Their lungs. The swelling must come from a viral infection"

"Snake, how do you know that?"

"I dunno. Just a hunch, I guess"

But that would probably overstep the personality quota of 0.2%

 

[Deckard Chapel]

That would have been cool.

"Their bodies, the burns ... they were burned before being thrown into the pit"

"Snake, how do you know that?"

"I dunno. Just a hunch, I guess"

Kojima/Konami: "Cutscene deleted".

 

[ZeroMaverick]

Perfect

Kojima really chickened out here. Instead of having a game about what the real Boss did and became, he showed us what his boring, half-assed 'clone' was doing in Africa.

Or was the twist so important to him, that's it's worth wasting our time and tell a non-story instead of the actual story about Big Boss creation of Outer Heaven?

I think he definitely chickened out. It is daunting, I'd imagine.

 

[Edzi]

Perfect

Kojima really chickened out here. Instead of having a game about what the real Boss did and became, he showed us what his boring, half-assed 'clone' was doing in Africa.

Or was the twist so important to him, that's it's worth wasting our time and tell a non-story instead of the actual story about Big Boss creation of Outer Heaven?

Kojima has proven over and over again that he does not care about or respect his fiction. He will gladly take a dump all over established plots and characters just so he can make some kind of meta statement or twist.

 

[SJRB]

Venom is when he feels like it. The fight scene and the funeral scene in particular stand out.

He is really nothing like Big Boss but is an incredibly charming character when he actually talks. I feel more wasted potential in Venom's characterization than I do in not playing Big Boss's downfall.

This is one of the best cutscenes in the game, and yet it is hidden away as a throwaway thing for when your GMP is in the red. 9 out of 10 players will never even see this cutscene.

Why not incorporate this into the story? You know, just had a massive parasite epidemic, good soldiers, good friends died a horrible death. Everyone is cautious and on edge since a spy seems on the loose inside Mother Base. Morale is at an all-time low. Fights happen. Big Boss steps in and sets everyone straight. But in the next scene the parasite strain evolves and Big Boss has to execute everyone in the quarantine zone, severely traumatizing him and turning him into a monster.


See, was that so hard Kojima GODDAMNIT WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME I WAITED FOR 6 YEARS YOU FUCK

 

[Unknown One]

Kojima chickened out. I could tell he has a massive hard on for Big Boss and The Boss after MGS3, which got a ton of needless sequels depicting the fall of Big Boss. MGS3 already got that covered in it's ending. Kojima even shits on Solid Snake saying he's not human and literally takes a shit on him in MGS4. He has no balls to make Big Boss evil. Big Boss is to Kojima as to Lightning is to Toriyama.

 

[rtcn63]

That would be even dumber tbh

Now that I think about it... Batman. Animated. You know which one.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

That would have been cool.

"Their lungs. The swelling must come from a viral infection"

"Snake, how do you know that?"

"I dunno. Just a hunch, I guess"

But that would probably overstep the personality quota of 0.2%

Performing an impromptu surgery in order to save the life of an asset/target would have been great.

 

[FlashbladeGAF]

Perfect

Kojima really chickened out here. Instead of having a game about what the real Boss did and became, he showed us what his boring, half-assed 'clone' was doing in Africa.

Or was the twist so important to him, that's it's worth wasting our time and tell a non-story instead of the actual story about Big Boss creation of Outer Heaven?

I think he wanted to thank his fans from the bottom of his heart.
He did award us the title "Big Boss" after all!

 

[WrenchNinja]

but he doesn't even depict venom going evil either

 

[Deckard Chapel]

I want the game he was "risking" everything for; the one he'd have to leave the industry because of due to it being so, incredibly taboo.

Aside from a cut cinematic cutscene [the burning African village] and "Mission 51: Kingdom Of The Flies" - what the fuck else was there left then, that lived up to that statement that we aren't aware of?!?

 

[el_colibri]

This is one of the best cutscenes in the game, and yet it is hidden away as a throwaway thing for when your GMP is in the red. 9 out of 10 players will never even see this cutscene.

Why not incorporate this into the story? You know, just had a massive parasite epidemic, good soldiers, good friends died a horrible death. Everyone is cautious and on edge since a spy seems on the loose inside Mother Base. Morale is at an all-time low. Fights happen. Big Boss steps in and sets everyone straight. But in the next scene the parasite strain evolves and Big Boss has to execute everyone in the quarantine zone, severely traumatizing him and turning him into a monster.


See, was that so hard Kojima GODDAMNIT WHY DID YOU DO THIS TO ME I WAITED FOR 6 YEARS YOU FUCK

This is exactly the type of scenario that was shown in the trailers.

It's also exactly the type of story that makes sense and has continuity.

It's also exactly what I wanted.

Sadface

 

[Broken Joystick]

I want the game he was "risking" everything for; the one he'd have to leave the industry because of due to it being so, incredibly taboo.

Aside from a cut cinematic cutscene [the burning African village] and "Mission 51: Kingdom Of The Flies" - what the fuck else was there left then, that lived up to that statement that we aren't aware of?!?

Quiet and her depiction, attempted rape, child soldiers and Kojima's writing.

 

[el_colibri]

Chapter 2 - RACE

(Race to the finish)

 

[Deckard Chapel]

I think he wanted to thank his fans from the bottom of his heart.
He did award us the title "Big Boss" after all!

That's sugar-coating a turd.

I'd like to cling to that notion too - just to keep my sanity and my disdain for this game in check; but I cannot, due to my solidarity in the realm of common sense.

 

[CHC]

Chapter 2 - RACE

(Race to the finish)

Yeah such a ridiculous title. There are almost NO themes of race whatsoever, it seems like it was put in just to give a false sense of shock - like "oh he's really gonna go there now."

but he doesn't even depict venom going evil either

Well yeah... that's why the story is so half assed. If he wrote the story as Venom going bad, there would ironically be no reason for Venom to exist because it could just be Big Boss.

 

[DigitalRicket]

but he doesn't even depict venom going evil either

But isn't that the point? We all thought that Venom, or Big Boss, was gonna be this super bad dude, but in the end he was just a guy with different ideals. They were never really hardcore terrorist like in the same vein as Liquid or Solidus, and even then they themselves were THAT evil... they just had different ideas. None of them killed innocents... Except maybe Solidus when he was part of the civil war with Jack and the child soldiers.

I think everyone expected something that never really was there and Kojima played on those expectations.

 

[Resilient]

just another day of being depressed because this game fell short

 

[el_colibri]

Yeah such a ridiculous title. There are almost NO themes of Race whatsoever, it seems like it was put in just to give a sense of false shock - like "oh he's really gonna go there now."

Just makes me wonder what was planned and why so much was cut out.

Kojima :-(