Razgriz-Specter
Member
Did they list an ETA on the costume DLC?
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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SandMan2233
Member
Admittedly, I feel the reasoning in-game is fairly contrived. I'd have loved to have Ocelot in the field. It's not the best explanation, but I can live with it at this point.
Plus I'd have just said to Hell with him and used my bro D-Dog anyways.
If you want a perspective on the enormous hype preceding this game, watch the trailers. Particularly the Red Band 2013 trailer. Mostly disappointment from the narrative not living up to the hype.
As for the story itself, it is poorly paced with a stellar opening and little else. It blows all of its steam early and doesn't reach that high ever again.
MGS4's story at least properly built towards its climactic plot points from beginning to end, so that's a good thing.
But it wasted so much of my damn time with awful exposition that I think I'd take MGSV's sparse, boring non-story over MGS4's overwrought, hours-long nonsense.
matrix-cat
Member
Is it? I found it, along with the Man on Fire, more frustrating than enjoyable. I kept doing the CQC counters, chasing him down, batting petrol bombs out of the air, but he wouldn't go down. Ended up having to tranq his entire child soldier army twice because the battle went on so long they kept waking up. Found out in the rematch on Mother Base that he'll go down in a single headshot, but you can shoot him in the body all day and get nothing for it.
Quiet and Sahelanthropus were both so easy as to be trivial to me, and Eli and Volgin were just frustrating because I didn't know what I was doing wrong (and the Codec is completely useless). I agree that MGSV has the best regular gameplay in the series, but for me it dropped the ball hard on bossfights, and a Metal Gear game without great bossfights is so disappointing (see also: Peace Walker).
I get the impression that I'm in the minority for preferring the parasites to MGS4's nanomachines.
At least 95% of the exposition of the parasites are reserved for cassette tapes, but more importantly, the super powers aren't pushed onto everyone as a plot device like the ubiquitous nanomachines were in MGS4. The thread of a deadly virus was there, but the plot wasn't hinging on manipulating some exposition-heavy concept.
At least 95% of the exposition of the parasites are reserved for cassette tapes, but more importantly, the super powers aren't pushed onto everyone as a plot device like the ubiquitous nanomachines were in MGS4. The thread of a deadly virus was there, but the plot wasn't hinging on manipulating some exposition-heavy concept.
I'm still not really sure how that fight works once you blow up all the pods on its back.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
Guess you missed the part where the Cobras now got their powers from parasites.
Yeah, I really, really loved the twist. Looking back on what MGS2 was about, and all the things you could do in PW, it totally makes sense. Sure, you can dissect it and nitpick details about how the plastic surgery shouldn't have worked, or how lame it was to use hypnosis; but in the grand scheme of things, I felt it was appropriate given the truth that anyone -- provided they have the training, resources, and sheer willpower -- can become "Snake". It happened in MGS2 with Raiden, and you could certainly do it in PW and TPP by playing as any of your highly skilled soldiers to tackle the same missions that Big Boss"" and Venom could.
While I wished they could've done more to enhance the psychological aspects of it and sprinkled more narrative moments about this throughout the game, I was pretty satisfied with how they pulled it off.
While I wished they could've done more to enhance the psychological aspects of it and sprinkled more narrative moments about this throughout the game, I was pretty satisfied with how they pulled it off.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
lol NTGYK is on a serious promo run for his ending. Get that fan comic guy to draw it.
The problem is they didn't pull off anything because there was no twist because everyone saw it coming two years ago and it was telegraphed at every possible moment in the opening.
Also MGS2 executed it tremendously better fourteen years sooner.
The Dear Leader
Banned
Shoot him in his ribs when they start glowing, like when he pulls out his sword.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I like the twist because of what it adds to LET. BB always found LET to be a disgusting project, so much so that he left Cipher because of it and started a feud with Zero. He dismisses David and Eli as "no sons of mine" and states that "they're certainly not me", instructing Ocelot to treat them as "just men". This is the same game where he takes Venom, his right hand man and most loyal son, and makes him into himself. For him, it wasn't about genes, it was about what you chose to believe in and how you can prove yourself for your cause. His genetic clones are worthless to him, but his soldiers are more than sons. It really adds a lot to BB's character and cements him as someone who can't find meaning outside of battle.
At least The End did, but there's still only a handful of those with the traits. In MGS4, every single soldier was hooked up with nanomachines, and the final battle of 4 was two old dudes injecting themselves with the things like a couple of heroine fiends two weeks past their usual fix.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I actually like the twist itself, although I found playing through the hospital again extremely annoying. It's heavily scripted and was great the first time but they needed to do more to differentiate the second playthrough IMO. Felt like I was just slogging through it honestly.
My problem is that they left too many loose ends in the game. I mean even plot points created in this very game are left unresolved. If you aren't going to give me any sort of pay-off with the 'Eli stealing MG' plot then don't even fucking start it.
I would have been willing to hand-wave them not finishing other overall series plots, but to actively create one and then leave it hanging is unforgivable. Hurts even more after seeing the Mission 51 video.
Edit: and yeah, I have no idea how ANYONE was surprised by the twist. The Ahab/Ishmael sequence at the start is an obvious hint that something is going on, but I knew what the deal was the moment Venom meets the A.I. pod.
Both its reaction and his lack of reaction cemented the fact that he was not the real BB in my head. BB would have freaked out no matter how much he has tried to get over the events of PW.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Do any yellow side ops you might have. Do any yellow missions. Do a white mission or two afterwards.
But it wasn't? I dunno, it was so obscure that he was actually lying. Wasn't really an arc, nor was it satisfying.
That's my problem with 90 percent of the things in this game. Yes, it makes sense. The two big bosses even make sense. But it's also pointless. There's no meaning or purpose behind that twist and it's just there to go, "oh, ok". They don't go anywhere with it and it's not really a conclusion.
Stallion Dan
Member
Snake's VA in this game is so bad, he has this one huff and gruff voice, but then in a handful of scenes he has this normal voice that sounds clear and completely different.
Which is it?
Which is it?
Mix Master
Member
after reading this thread, i blame kojima tbh.
I can't blame konami for getting the game out of the door. 80 Million? this aint gta man.
this open world is dead as hell, i thought there were going to be civilian camps in the game but nope.
Rip Kojipro
I can't blame konami for getting the game out of the door. 80 Million? this aint gta man.
this open world is dead as hell, i thought there were going to be civilian camps in the game but nope.
Rip Kojipro
do i have to the do the extreme version of the quiet mission?
FlutterPuffs
Member
So Skyllface is a Hungarian with a hardon for westerns?
Yes, in the credits of the truth ending. He tells Ocelot that Big Boss can go to hell, and that he'll support Venom/Big Boss's sons in order to take him down.
Venom
Ocelots personality transplant
Skullface
Mute Kiefer
Parasites
Quiet with a bra to breathe
Salalalthranparus
Code Talkers dead duck delivery
Konami execs see all this in January
Kojima
Oh man, I missed this. Thread has gone dark places.
Chakra_Khan
Member
But we've already sunken too deep into the memetic quagmire of the internet that this twist was trying to warn us about because it was already done to greater affect in mgs 2 and it took 13 years for people to get the meaning of that game. Now that we live in the information age, it is easier to discern an artists meta narrative means because of the digital fluctuation of mass information sharing I.e. YouTube, or more precisely super bunny hop's critical close up series detailing and dissecting each metal gear game to its core.
In its analysis of ground zeroes, George (bunnyhop) wax's poetic about how, although cinematically done well, the message ground zeroes tries to put forward falls short because it compares the struggle of two mercenary war dogs, who claim no nation or ideology of their own, and who are suspected and feared by the world for carrying nukes (WHICH THEY TOTALLY FUCKING HAVE) to two Italian immigrants suspected by America of being terrorists because they were anarchists and ergo, wrongfully executed. Without significant proof whatsoever that they committed the crimes they were accused of.
This shoddy writing concerned george about the narrative of tpp and his concerns were unfortunately realized much to the chagrin of myself and many,many others.
There is soo much to say about was is wrong with this game. It'd take an entire thread of me to express it. Just might do that when its time.
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
I thought Christopher Randolph (Huey) did a really good job here as well. His outbursts and attempted explanations were really well acted imo.
StopMakingSense
Member
You honestly can just go through white side-ops until the cutscene pops.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
This story, this legend? It's ours. We can change the world, and with it, the future.
I really like this interpretation... but it makes him hypocritical and monstrous at the same time.
As much as Ocelot is a quadruple crossing Russian with a hard-on for Westerns.
EmCeeGramr
Member
But... it didn't actually happen in MGS2 with Raiden. S3 wasn't really about being Solid Snake, it was about whether social context could influence you into accepting information regardless of whether it made sense. Raiden broke out of the Snake fantasy by the end and at Snake-as-Kojima-proxy's urging was told to live his own life. He lost his gun and the dogtags with the player's name.
MGSV's trite "Big Boss is inside all of us, because we played as him in a video game! PS: Your fake Big Boss died and the real one did all of the actual important cool stuff" twist flies in the face of that.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
And it kinda sucks cause the idea of the twist is actually really cool... it's just not handled great.
I actually like the Venom Snake twist.
FlutterPuffs
Member
So what can we get from this
is that Hideo Kojima is a Japanese with a hard-on for Westerns.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Venom is when he feels like it. The fight scene and the funeral scene in particular stand out.
He is really nothing like Big Boss but is an incredibly charming character when he actually talks. I feel more wasted potential in Venom's characterization than I do in not playing Big Boss's downfall.
Also, who didn't love him and Kaz giving off Pulp Fiction vibes?
Awwwwwww yeah
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Failed execution of the twist aside, the issue with it for me is that it isn't bringing any new angle to the story or the game's themes. Metal Gear Solid 2's twist is a more complete metaphor for the player as protagonist (Raiden, a rookie trained in VR, confident that he knows what to expect based on his experience in Shadow Moses), works with the game's existing themes of information control and choosing one's own path (the player is manipulated much as Raiden is, and while that manipulation is successful, the player is encouraged to live for what he chooses, and not to be a pawn in someone else's game), and also acknowledges the idea that a legend can be as much a product of circumstance and control as of some innate chosen gift. It is a critical piece of the game's storytelling, not an addendum.
Metal Gear Solid V's twist retreads the same ground MGS2 already explored in its efforts to make the player a part of the series' lore, but the specificity of it (Venom is you, not some other soldier or existing character) does nothing for the game's already-lacking themes concerning the cost of revenge or linguistic control. Nor does it give you some meaningful new perspective on the game's plot or on the characters' motivations. It's just... there, an extra convolution for the sake of convolution.
Metal Gear Solid 3 already shot the Big Boss myth full of holes by exposing the core of betrayal at its center. Zero's attempts to deify him, as described in MGS4, come across as ludicrous as soon as they leave Big Mama's lips. I don't see how this twist brings some new insight into the man behind the legend that didn't already exist.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
This load out is incredibly fun.
I did the .308 round conversion on the rifle so it's got basically sniper levels of penetration. Only has 20/40 rounds but I only really go for headshots so it works great.
The water pistol and riot shield is just the ultimate in stupid fun.
EmCeeGramr
Member
And... the reason why these "you were shaped by the legend" themes worked in past games made sense. Raiden was a "rookie" (gamer) who had experienced Snake's past missions "in VR" (he played MGS1) and thus had a context to give him expectations that allowed him to accept the events of Big Shell, further allowing him to be fooled before it eventually was revealed to be a sham. Naked Snake is made into a legend because the times demand a hero and a legend and will throw them out once they need new ones, and he only truly realizes this at the end.
Venom Snake becomes Big Boss... because he was given science fiction plastic surgery and had Big Boss's mind, memory, and experience crammed into his noggin. Yeah, I guess you can become a legend if impossible magic transforms you into that legend, body and mind. Great moral.
Venom Snake becomes Big Boss... because he was given science fiction plastic surgery and had Big Boss's mind, memory, and experience crammed into his noggin. Yeah, I guess you can become a legend if impossible magic transforms you into that legend, body and mind. Great moral.
The Silver
Member
well its kinda both.
In universe, S3 was a success, the Patriots successfully got Raiden to fulfill the role of Snake(thus proving their larger goal of creating context to control people) and they moved on. Raiden gets fucked over anyway in MGS4 despite Snake telling him to live his life and leave all that crazy shit alone.
The meta message was what you just said and MGSV does fly in the face of it.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
I think it would have worked better if they played with the themes of identity and memory more fully, by making Venom a completely unreliable protagonist throughout, showing him suffering from delusions and hallucinations and making people genuinely wary of him. People basically just worship and fear him from the outset.
Edit: I've gotten more ideas for my rewrite over the last day. I need to update it.
I can absolutely see reasons for all of that, but I guess I just got lucky in that my brain has little rationalizations for each one. And not in a "I desperately want this game to be good" kind of way, but more of a "if you think about time travel movies too hard they're all dumb" kind of way.
1. After MGS2, not playing as the main character will never bother me again. However, I totally get their pain. I was so mad.
Cool, I absolutely will check that trailer out. Thanks.
Totally agree on the second hospital bit. I kept assuming something was going to be different other than the beginning or end. A quick fade from crawling out of the room to the ambulance crash would have been nice.
That's a bummer about Eli not having his plot resolved (I assumed it would happen in a later side op I hadn't unlocked yet or something), but hey, they have to lay the seeds for future Metal Gear games. No I just have to hope they aren't pachinko (sp) machines. EROTIC VIOLENCE TRANSFARRING REVENGANCE.
Mission 51?. EH? Time to Google that one.
Mix Master
Member
I also thaught Kaz/ Robin Atkin Downes was overacting sometimes.
And is it me or does Ocelot look like Troy Baker?
And is it me or does Ocelot look like Troy Baker?
Chakra_Khan
Member
Because he was.
Are any of you fine pc folks here interested in the possibility of using the power of modding to fix this sham of a fuckin game? I feel that the elements of this game are all here they're just handled in a sloppy order while others could be omitted entirely through the magic of editing. Especially regarding the twist.
I'd love to discuss ideas with people.
Also, someone needs to say all this shit to Kojima's fuckin face!
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Horan is great as Skull Face.
Playing through again, when you first see the boss AI tank, she says "snake? Is that you?". Even Emmerich looks closely at you and asks who you are.
Just didn't even see these things as important my first time through. Tons more things of course, but I just saw this scene again, and it seems so obvious now.
Just didn't even see these things as important my first time through. Tons more things of course, but I just saw this scene again, and it seems so obvious now.
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