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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

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I don't agree with this at all really. They drop a few lines after the event in the casette, and the fact that he is where he is obviously makes him part of MSF beforehand, but since all non-named MSF members are essentially faceless goons and non-characters he still basically comes out of nowhere.

This isn't going to be true for everyone, but in my specific case, I absolutely had a guy in Peace Walker who was my go-to for side ops, a man so badass Big Boss could arm him with nothing but a speedo and a banana and still trust him to get shit done.

I'm not sure that that's what Kojima was actually going for, but it gives me a warm tingly feeling to think that my favorite goon was so great that he got promoted to main character.

Let me honestly ask you guys something. Up until this entry in the series, did anybody really give a single fuck about how an 8bit character survived the first go round in outer heaven back in 1987? Of all the thoughts I've had about the complexities and minutia of the greater story as a whole, the msx events,ESPECIALLY THE FIRST ONE, ain't one of them.

It's come to mind before MGSV made them a big deal again, yeah. The "how did Big Boss survive" plothole itself wasn't especially important given all the other ludicrous stuff people endure, but those two games are still the bedrock of the series that everything else builds on. They're important, and Kojima's always treated them with respect accordingly.
 
She's not partially submerged. Her head from ear level forward is above water. Only the back of her scalp is resting in the water. She gets waterboarded, and isn't left submerged after she passes out. Exposing her legs could have something to do with it, but again, the mechanics of how she works are not clear enough to form a conclusion. She's said to run dry after the mission, and the mission can take place at night. This means that it can't be sun, it could be air, but water is emphasized.

I think It's for creating mist like the sexy snipers in code talker mission.
 
Exactly zero fans wanted to know how The Cobras got infected with parasites.

Yeah, like I said in my previous post, at this point no-one wanted answers about any of their powers.

But funnily enough, when MGS3 came out, a lot of people were asking for exactly that. "How come they don't explain their powers? Why can The Pain shoot and control bees? Why is The End practically undead?". I remember that and always found it funny. What would you expect? There couldn't be an answer that's less silly than the powers themselves.
 
I'm noticing the rise of a vocal minority with the "I'm smarter than you 'cause I get what master Kojima did and it's beautiful"-kind of attitude. Am I alone? They're really annoying.
 
Try to keep track of what you're talking about because you are all over the place.

SHE NEEDS TO BE NAKED TO BREATH, FACT.

At the end of the first post I mention code talker as evidence that she only needs limited exposure for her parasites to breath.

Naked to breath is an assumption based on partial information. It's not 100% explicit, only inferred, without expressing it's limits. That's not a fact, it's a theory. (Facts don't have contradictions, and facts need to be supported with proof against reasonable doubt)
 
Nah, following the MGSV hype cycle you'd be surprised how little "Hey, I want to know how The Pain controls bees" there was. I don't think I spotted any.

People don't want any old answers, they want satisfying ones, and Kojima doesn't seem to know the difference. People can tell when you pull a solution out of your ass. So it's best to leave it as a mystery if you can't give people an answer that they can be excited about.

You don't have to like it. It's an answer for a possible question.
 
I'm noticing the rise of a vocal minority with the "I'm smarter than you 'cause I get what master Kojima did and it's beautiful"-kind of attitude. Am I alone? They're really annoying.

I haven't gotten it so much recently, but I've sensed that undertone.

'I understand what Kojima was trying to do'

Where it's like, no, we all understand what he was trying to do, just most of us don't think it was done well.
 
At the end of the first post I mention code talker as evidence that she only needs limited exposure for her parasites to breath.

Naked to breath is an assumption based on partial information. It's not 100% explicit, only inferred, without expressing it's limits. That's not a fact, it's a theory. (Facts don't have contradictions, and facts need to be supported with proof against reasonable doubt)

Show how does she breath? Does she only need to have her face exposed in order to breathe?
 
At the end of the first post I mention code talker as evidence that she only needs limited exposure for her parasites to breath.

Naked to breath is an assumption based on partial information. It's not 100% explicit, only inferred, without expressing it's limits. That's not a fact, it's a theory. (Facts don't have contradictions)

Dude, why are you arguing against this? It is stated multiple times that she needs to be naked to breath. Code Talker being clothed doesn't work as evidence because he has working lungs. This is also stated explicitly.

Also, in the end does it really matter whether it was the clothing or lack of water that was draining her powers? Maybe it was a combination of both, who cares? The real question is: how the hell did the Soviets capture a demi-god in the first place?
 
At the end of the first post I mention code talker as evidence that she only needs limited exposure for her parasites to breath.

Naked to breath is an assumption based on partial information. It's not 100% explicit, only inferred, without expressing it's limits. That's not a fact, it's a theory. (Facts don't have contradictions, and facts need to be supported with proof against reasonable doubt)

Code Talker first bonded with the symbiotes parasites when he was just a normal genius level nuclear physicist/biologist/cryptographer.

When Quiet received symbiote parasite therapy, her lungs were completely non-functional, as revealed in her interrogation scene. This is reason to believe that there may be significant differences in the way they respire.

It sure is convenient that Quiet just happened to have injuries that force her to go around almost completely nude, while Code Talker can remain fully clothed.
 
I'm noticing the rise of a vocal minority with the "I'm smarter than you 'cause I get what master Kojima did and it's beautiful"-kind of attitude. Am I alone? They're really annoying.

Is it annoying to you that people enjoyed the experience and enjoyed the plot more than you do? Everyone can voice his/her opinion.
 
I've seen the superiority complex on both sides, tbh

"How dare you like this game, it is irreconcilably garbage"

"You don't like this game because you don't understand it, plebian"
 
i'll just leave this here
tumblr_nuv6l7BbGc1twzp6xo1_1280.png

This must be unfinished, I can't find Code Talker babbling about vocal cord parasites anywhere.
 
Incidentally, Quiet's entire head being submerged also robbed her of her only source of breathing in that sequence which also explains why she can't be submerged - she wouldn't be able to receive any oxygen. She had no source of sustaining breathing until her pants were removed. There'd be no point to point in telling the audience that she can't be inside water unless that detail would be important.
 
Dude, why are you arguing against this? It is stated multiple times that she needs to be naked to breath. Code Talker being clothed doesn't work as evidence because he has working lungs. This is also stated explicitly.

Also, in the end does it really matter whether it was the clothing or lack of water that was draining her powers? Maybe it was a combination of both, who cares? The real question is: how the hell did the Soviets capture a demi-god in the first place?

I'm arguing because there are holes. I'm the kind of person that will not accept an assumed truth unless it can be proven. The inference that she has to be naked ends up also being weighted in criticisms of sexism, causing many people to skim over details and other possible truths.

It is not stated that it is completely needs-based, and the idea of it being partially personality based, when you consider the rain scene, is far more interesting. It is theory, so I cannot justify accepting it against other inferences.

We don't know if a tanktop would suffocate her, for instance. We're just given a point of information that lacks full details (obviously, Ocelot wouldn't be able to test this, and could be making a judgement based on his observation.) Unlike code talker, she is exposing less hair on her head (as he's mostly bald) so it's viable to use that as a data point.

Incidentally, Quiet's entire head being submerged also robbed her of her only source of breathing in that sequence which also explains why she can't be submerged. She had no source of sustaining breathing until her pants were removed.

Watch the scene again. After the guard waterboards her, he lets go of her. You can see that the water line hits the back of her scalp, but her face is above the water. She is not submerged when she is being undressed.
 
I'm noticing the rise of a vocal minority with the "I'm smarter than you 'cause I get what master Kojima did and it's beautiful"-kind of attitude. Am I alone? They're really annoying.

I hope that's not in reference to people like me. I loved the story and loved how it wrapped up, but i don't look up to Kojima at all and am not trying to push that narrative. I think he'a a really flawed genius, but i dig what he did with MGSV and it worked for me, personally. I also broadly disagree with the 'execution'-fo used arguments. The execution was a bit fudgy at times but i dont think he could have done much better, bar a couple of fairly substantial oversights.
 
Even Zero gets his hands washed of any wrongdoing at all in this game, making Ocelot's anger at him particularly forced.

That's one of the main stinging points of the game to me. I was listening to the tapes and thinking, "Hold up, are you really trying to say that Zero was just some kind old man living in a bunker and pinning all the world's ills on the black guy?"
 
Is it annoying to you that people enjoyed the experience and enjoyed the plot more than you do? Everyone can voice his/her opinion.

Everyone can enjoy everything. I'm still playing MGSV.
No, it's annoying when they say, directly or not, that you're not smart enough to understand Kojima's genius. Because we all did it, we just believe he didn't achieve a good result.
I'm also shocked at how many people say Quiet is the best female character of the saga. I mean, I just closed the game and I had her ass on my face on the helicopter.
 
That's one of the main stinging points of the game to me. I was listening to the tapes and thinking, "Hold up, are you really trying to say that Zero was just some kind old man living in a bunker and pinning all the world's ills on the black guy?"

I wouldn't say that. It's more naivete than anything. They thought it would save the world, but it went out of hand and Sigint was killed during Shadow Moses. The System ended up running unchecked.

Personally, I'm a big fan of stories where bad things happen because someone fucked up and didn't see it coming. It feels more honest to how big problems can come from smart people in a real way.
 
Kinda funny how hard Kojima's justification for Quiet's clothing backfired

"Ashamed of our words and deeds"

Literally nobody was ashamed
 
Everyone can enjoy everything. I'm still playing MGSV.
No, it's annoying when they say, directly or not, that you're not smart enough to understand Kojima's genius. Because we all did it, we just believe he didn't achieve a good result.
I'm also shocked at how many people say Quiet is the best female character of the saga. I mean, I just closed the game and I had her ass on my face on the helicopter.

Quiet is by far the least excusable thing in the story. I'm a big fan of the MGSV's story, but she's the one of two exceptions.

However, she's inexcusable because of the objectification, not her character. Her character is actually decent. I thought she was great up until her last cutscene when she turned into a martyr-for-males. Up until that point her actions, backstory, and deeds are all well thought-out and badass.

It's just the arbitrary nudity, sexy dancing, and constant tit shots that fuck it up. Basically one of thise 'execution' fuck ups.
 
This isn't going to be true for everyone, but in my specific case, I absolutely had a guy in Peace Walker who was my go-to for side ops, a man so badass Big Boss could arm him with nothing but a speedo and a banana and still trust him to get shit done.

I'm not sure that that's what Kojima was actually going for, but it gives me a warm tingly feeling to think that my favorite goon was so great that he got promoted to main character.

Oh man I imagine the lab mission must have been difficult for you to get through.
 
I never asked that question.

Ok, but other people could. Before MGS V got released my friend who played MGS 1 - 4 asked me about Vamp and Fortune, because he he didn't understand it at the time and he was excited to play MGS V. In fact, I ended up explaining almost everything. Also, I always thought that the Cobra unit is weird, so it doesn't bother me that MGS V explained them.
 
Watch the scene again. After the guard waterboards her, he lets go of her. You can see that the water line hits the back of her scalp, but her face is above the water. She is not submerged when she is being undressed.

I don't think drowning someone is the same as waterboarding.
 
I'm noticing the rise of a vocal minority with the "I'm smarter than you 'cause I get what master Kojima did and it's beautiful"-kind of attitude. Am I alone? They're really annoying.

They are not new. Those began with the "I understand the MGS2 meta-commetary and if you don't like the game it's because you didn't get it"

We have plenty of those people here.
 
Quiet is by far the least excusable thing in the story. I'm a big fan of the MGSV's story, but she's the one of two exceptions.

However, she's inexcusable because of the objectification, not her character. Her character is actually decent. I thought she was great up until her last cutscene when he turned into a martyr-for-males. Up until that point her actions, backstory, and deeds are all well thought-out and badass.

It's just the arbitrary nudity, sexy dancing, and constant tit shots that fuck it up. Basically one of thise 'execution' fuck ups.

Martyr for males? She did it for the sake of one man, someone she had a deep connection to. I'm totally fine with it, it felt majorly heroic on her part to me.
 
Questions for anyone who can answer. What is the benefit of saving up and building a nuke?
Was Skullface a character from Snake Eater? I kept expecting him to pan out and be a reference from another game but I got no such satisfaction. :-/
Does anything happen when you beat all 50 missions? All 157 side ops? Both?
 
Everyone can enjoy everything. I'm still playing MGSV.
No, it's annoying when they say, directly or not, that you're not smart enough to understand Kojima's genius. Because we all did it, we just believe he didn't achieve a good result.
I'm also shocked at how many people say Quiet is the best female character of the saga. I mean, I just closed the game and I had her ass on my face on the helicopter.

Ok, but I saw many people who finished the game including one of my friends who said that he didn't like the ending because he couldn't link it to other games in the series. Which is totally wrong, he didn't understand the ending. Regarding Quiet, I liked her and I was sad when her story ended, but imo, she isn't the best female character in the saga, for me it's the Boss. It's just opinions dude.
 
People who think the story is well executed are like climate change deniers. The story is cluttered, the characters disgustingly underdeveloped and there are huge gaps between what was promised and what was delivered in terms outside of the gameplay experience. The game is basically made of nice ideas.

The characters are ideas. They don't develop, they just do what their type is expected to do. Only Huey has some development and while that is not badly executed, it was moronic to put his kind of development into a character that can't be killed for continuity reasons, because it made little sense to let him live after all the atrocities he was directly or indirectly responsible for. Everyone else ranges from completely flat to almost completely flat. We get no interaction between the characters that doesn't revolve around the plot. We get data, in-game facts, information, but no character interaction. The only notable example are the charming Hamburger tapes that give a bit of life to Code Talker and Miller. Ocelot has no character at all. Quiet is reduced to being a sad warrior in love. But what does she like? What does she dislike? She has no personality other than waifu qualities like "being nice and brave and loyal to her man".

The themes of the game are ideas. Revenge. Language. Illusions. Parasites. All nice ideas, all begin nicely, but none of them get expanded on. There is no discussion of the layers, meaning and ramification of revenge. Just a lot of people being angry and Huey being silly. Language would've been more interesting if the whole bunch of languages spoken at Mother Base would actually be important. But they were only a smokescreen for the infection, not of actual importance. Parasites were reduced to the status of nanomachines instead of being used as a metaphor for global parasites in politics and diplomacy. And well, I already gave my thing to the wasted opportunities of illusions and fakes.

The game failed to be more than a nice idea with amazing gameplay.
 
Count me as someone who really liked finding out about the Cobra unit's powers and how the Patriots came to be. Though it was all great.

Martyr for males? She did it for the sake of one man, someone she had a deep connection to. I'm totally fine with it, it felt majorly heroic on her part to me.

Maybe. It wasn't as bad as another AAA game i played this year which did the same thing but far worse. And her story on the whole was still pretty food.

Is there any way to get her back?
 
I've seen the superiority complex on both sides, tbh

"How dare you like this game, it is irreconcilably garbage"

"You don't like this game because you don't understand it, plebian"

I don't doubt it.

Kinda funny how hard Kojima's justification for Quiet's clothing backfired

"Ashamed of our words and deeds"

Literally nobody was ashamed

She needs to dress that way in order to breathe.

seeeeeeee, don't you feel shame

ashamed that you're ogling her only means of living

bet you felt terrible when you didn't keep up proper hygiene.

now she has to take a shower with you in front of soldiers

you feel shame yet

here, let me have the camera focus on her shame parts whenever she's on screen

yes, even interrogation

how's that shame
 
That's not right. All that says is she hates people trying to put clothes on her. That doesn't mean she needs to be naked to breath, nor does the game ever actually make that specific notion. All it means is that she is simply keeping herself naked when they try to clothe her, and that's all that means. My point still stands as working within the story.

Afterall, we have 2 other characters in the series with her same condition that breath through their face and head in The End and Code Talker. This means that there are two data points that can point to her not needing to be naked to breath. There is nothing that suggests it is a need rather than a desire, but Desire fulfills more of the criteria. Desire doesn't contradict code talker, but Need is a contradiction, which means desire is more likely the right answer.



But it's water that brings her back. less clothes is irrelevant. Code Talker proves this.

Dude ocelot straight up says she will suffocate if you put clothes on her, and no, the end and code talker don't have her condition of "lungs don't fucking work."
 
I wouldn't say that. It's more naivete than anything. They thought it would save the world, but it went out of hand and Sigint was killed during Shadow Moses. The System ended up running unchecked.

Ocelot and Eva plotted to kill Sigint and Para-Medic because they were on Zero's side of the Boss Will Realization War and not Big Boss'. But it's okay because they pulled Huey U-ey offscreen heel turn where Para-Medic threw all her morals out the window to clone Big Boss and torture Gray Fox and Sigint...I guess the worst thing he did was make Skynet and worked for Zero who turned out to be a totally cool dude.
 
I don't doubt it.



She needs to dress that way in order to breathe.

seeeeeeee, don't you feel shame

ashamed that you're ogling her only means of living

bet you felt terrible when you didn't keep up proper hygiene.

now she has to take a shower with you in front of soldiers

you feel shame yet

here, let me have the camera focus on her shame parts whenever she's on screen

yes, even interrogation

how's that shame

hahaha, really those scenes are unnecessary. I liked her story, but the sexy scenes are stupid.
 
Some things are better left unexplained. Like the Patriots, for one thing. Adds to the mystique. Otherwise you get "Oh, they were the MGS3 support crew all along!".

Honestly, I don't like being strung along forever. Mystique is great until it stops being interesting, then I just want to move on. Dangling something forever can start to feel like the author is afraid of their own narrative, or that they don't know what they're doing. I'd rather get answers at some point so the narrative can evolve, rather than maintain stagnancy.

The Patriots needed an explanation, we just got a clumsy one in 4 that felt all wrong. V really adds to that and functions as a better reveal. I feel like a player playing V before 4 would appreciate the storyline involving those characters far more. In 4 you found out which mgs1 character the mgs3 character was, and who was in the patriots all in one scene, but in V ocelot dolls out that information on tapes in a much subtler fashion that would allow for someone to gain suspicion as they progress, with 4 functioning as a bow on top for all of that buildup with the MGS3 cast. It's why I think the best play order is Release with 4 moved to the end. (And I also think having here's to you as Paz's favorite song in GZ would make ending 4 on it after the fact as big boss dies more resonant, it's-like-poetry-it-rhymes...)
 
People who think the story is well executed are like climate change deniers. The story is cluttered, the characters disgustingly underdeveloped and there are huge gaps between what was promised and what was delivered in terms outside of the gameplay experience. The game is basically made of nice ideas.

The characters are ideas. They don't develop, they just do what their type is expected to do. Only Huey has some development and while that is not badly executed, it was moronic to put his kind of development into a character that can't be killed for continuity reasons, because it made little sense to let him live after all the atrocities he was directly or indirectly responsible for. Everyone else ranges from completely flat to almost completely flat. We get no interaction between the characters that doesn't revolve around the plot. We get data, in-game facts, information, but no character interaction. The only notable example are the charming Hamburger tapes that give a bit of life to Code Talker and Miller. Ocelot has no character at all. Quiet is reduced to being a sad warrior in love. But what does she like? What does she dislike? She has no personality other than waifu qualities like "being nice and brave and loyal to her man".

The themes of the game are ideas. Revenge. Language. Illusions. Parasites. All nice ideas, all begin nicely, but none of them get expanded on. There is no discussion of the layers, meaning and ramification of revenge. Just a lot of people being angry and Huey being silly. Language would've been more interesting if the whole bunch of languages spoken at Mother Base would actually be important. But they were only a smokescreen for the infection, not of actual importance. Parasites were reduced to the status of nanomachines instead of being used as a metaphor for global parasites in politics and diplomacy. And well, I already gave my thing to the wasted opportunities of illusions and fakes.

The game failed to be more than a nice idea with amazing gameplay.

.

You only have to look at past Metal Gear games to see this. MGSV doesn't have a supporting cast with any personality, Ocelot just gives you advice and Miller tells you to do things to advance the plot.

Themes like language are great in concept, but handled poorly. Cool, a virus that spreads via language ... then outside of the some Mother Base management nothing is really done with it. Language as a larger theme isn't really tackled; people of multiple languages come to form Diamond Dogs and there's no sense of their identity being lost or stolen from them. Then, aside from the parasites that are languaged triggered, with have other parasites that give people superpowers, or keep them alive (like with Skull Face), or turn them into zombies, which just becomes convoluted and waters down the impact of everything.

As you said the ideas are good, but they aren't really refined into anything meaningful. Too many instances of "that's a neat idea ... that really isn't explored at all" in the story.
 
People who think the story is well executed are like climate change deniers.

This opening gambit is so ridiculous and doesnt help how your argument comes across. I agree with a few of your points but think on the whole the game's story was fine. Unlike every other MGS game it's a game first and a story second. So it's not plot heavy and not character heavy. And that's fine. Or the most part, whenevrr people talk, it's about the gradual developments/progression. And remember, characters dont NEED to be developed. Many of the greatest works of fiction focus on how characters/people DON'T change. (An irrelevant comparison, but for example, The Last of Us.) Also we already know where all of these people started, and here they will end up. The cassette tapes in MGSV do a great job of filling in the blanks of what they did in-between.
 
Count me as someone who really liked finding out about the Cobra unit's powers and how the Patriots came to be. Though it was all great.



Maybe. It wasn't as bad as another AAA game i played this year which did the same thing but far worse. And her story on the whole was still pretty food.

Is there any way to get her back?

Sadly no, unless there's a dlc to somehow remove the parasites I think that's it for her. She isn't in any of the later games so it's a fitting ending for her storyline. (Really holding out hope we get Kingdom of Flies dlc, I could see that being pushed since it seems like it'd need an entire ground zeroes or bigger sized area to really be what they needed it to be)
 
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