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[Chakra_Khan]

I guarantee that you guys are putting more thought into Quiet's sustenance requirements th as n kojima and company did.

Yes to this a million times over. Jesus, why is everyone trying to argue over this! Whatever point kojima was trying to make with this character is nullified because of the focus of the camera alone.

Everyone is wasting argumentative clout over a hollow character that is more objectified than any other character in this series. At the end of the day, its a Japanese game pure and simple. He gave us the boss to prove it could rise above female stereotypes, he's earned his self indulgence in his mind.

Our precious saga wouldn't even exist if it weren't for hiroshima and nagasaki. Yes. I said it.

 

[SomTervo]

Sadly no, unless there's a dlc to somehow remove the parasites I think that's it for her. She isn't in any of the later games so it's a fitting ending for her storyline. (Really holding out hope we get Kingdom of Flies dlc, I could see that being pushed since it seems like it'd need an entire ground zeroes or bigger sized area to really be what they needed it to be)

Yeah, that would be sick. Really liked what i saw of the cut episodes.

 

[Alienous]

This opening gambit is so ridiculous and doesnt help how your argument comes across. I agree with a few of your points but think on the whole the game's story was fine. Unlike every other MGS game it's a game first and a story second. So it's not plot heavy and not character heavy. And that's fine. Or the most part, whenevrr people talk, it's about the gradual developments/progression. And remember, characters dont NEED to be developed. Many of the greatest works of fiction focus on how characters/people DON'T change. (An irrelevant comparison, but for example, The Last of Us.) Also we already know where all of these people started, and here they will end up. The cassette tapes in MGSV do a great job of filling in the blanks of what they did in-between.

But MGSV doesn't focus on how characters or people don't change. They just don't change.

It isn't a statement, or a commentary, it's just bad storytelling.

 

[Punished_Snake]

You mean pervert scenes. Those scenes are not sexy.

Lets call them stupid quiet scenes.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

The Patriots needed an explanation, we just got a clumsy one in 4 that felt all wrong. V really adds to that and functions as a better reveal. I feel like a player playing V before 4 would appreciate the storyline involving those characters far more. In 4 you found out which mgs1 character the mgs3 character was, and who was in the patriots all in one scene, but in V ocelot dolls out that information on tapes in a much subtler fashion that would allow for someone to gain suspicion as they progress, with 4 functioning as a bow on top for all of that buildup with the MGS3 cast. It's why I think the best play order is Release with 4 moved to the end. (And I also think having here's to you as Paz's favorite song in GZ would make ending 4 on it after the fact as big boss dies more resonant, it's-like-poetry-it-rhymes...)

MGSV could have explored the MGS3 radio crew and really fleshed out how they came to be the characters the are by MGS1, but it doesn't. They barely even mention them except in passing in optional tapes. Huey mentions some doctor who has managed to clone people. And I don't even remember them mentioning Donald Anderson at all, which means they either didn't or that it was such a secondary mention that it's not memorable. Outside of Ocelot, none of the MGS3 crew are in MGSV in any crucial form. Not even Big Boss. He helps V and then fucks off into the sunset.

MGSV is a terrible "missing link" game and does the barest of minimum to make the MGS3=Patriots plotline even make any kind of sense. You could skip V and head straight into MGS4 and your understanding of that Patriots reveal would still be the same as if you had played V.

 

[Punished_Snake]

MGSV could have explored the MGS3 radio crew and really fleshed out how they came to be the characters the are by MGS1, but it doesn't. They barely even mention them except in passing in optional tapes. Huey mentions some doctor who has managed to clone people. And I don't even remember them mentioning Donald Anderson at all, which means they either didn't or that it was such a secondary mention that it's not memorable. Outside of Ocelot, none of the MGS3 crew are in MGSV in any crucial form. Not even Big Boss. He helps V and then fucks off into the sunset.

MGSV is a terrible "missing link" game and does the barest of minimum to even make the MGS3=Patriots plotline even make any kind of sense. You could skip V and head straight into MGS4 and your understanding of that Patriots reveal would still be the same as if you had played V.

For me MGS 3 and 4 explained the patriots, no more explanation needed.

 

[Graphics Horse]

It's one of Zero's tapes he mentions Donald taking over from Zero.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Lets call them stupid quiet scenes.

They're still very pervy bro, not just stupid.

 

[Drencrom]

Why does Venom Boss lug around a canteen on his side when he never uses it?

 

[Haunted]

After all the fuss they made about Kiefer Sutherland, it's kinda hilarious that Miller and Ocelot have about 90% of the dialogue in the game compared to Silent Snake.

Why does Venom Boss lug around a canteen on his side when he never uses it?

same reason why he never uses the toilet

or eats

 

[SomTervo]

But MGSV doesn't focus on how characters or people don't change. They just don't change.

It isn't a statement, or a commentary, it's just bad storytelling.

That's true - i think i was taking issue with the ideas that characters need to be developed more than anything specifically to do with MGSV.

It seems like Kojima really reigned it in on all fronts and in every way possible in terms of character and plot. For better and worse (mainly worse for the story's sake). In essence all the whole game does is fill in some blanks between PW and MGS1. But personally I'm fine with that. I liked the gameplay first-and-foremost approach. He clearly wanted to get some story points across but they were a distant - very distant - second priority.

It really sucks that people are disappointed with it. But i always found the story in MGS frustrating and stupid on the whole anyway, and badly told/terribly written 99% of the time. So i appreciate we got the best playing MGS of all time, with some great story gap-fillers tacked on. I wasnt expecting MGS3-level shit here. Even though it would have been nice, the game is what it is. They just didnt take that approach.

I think all the negativity i heard about the game's story - mainly second hand from this thread - really helped me enjoy it. I seriously had shit-tier expectations. Like the lowest of the low. And it's not that bad. It's better than so many games.

 

[JackelZXA]

MGSV could have explored the MGS3 radio crew and really fleshed out how they came to be the characters the are by MGS1, but it doesn't. They barely even mention them except in passing in optional tapes. Huey mentions some doctor who has managed to clone people. And I don't even remember them mentioning Donald Anderson at all, which means they either didn't or that it was such a secondary mention that it's not memorable. Outside of Ocelot, none of the MGS3 crew are in MGSV in any crucial form. Not even Big Boss. He helps V and then fucks off into the sunset.

MGSV is a terrible "missing link" game and does the barest of minimum to even make the MGS3=Patriots plotline even make any kind of sense. You could skip V and head straight into MGS4 and your understanding of that Patriots reveal would still be the same as if you had played V.

They mention strangelove assisting sigint in ai research after peace walker, as well as implications that the mammal pod became the blueprint for the patriots program. There's also plenty of references to darpa and sigint (who is the darpa chief, afterall) Paramedic gets some fun references in some tapes where huey reveals that no one knows Clark is a she. For an MGS game, putting story in optional tapes is where I want it.

MGS4 put the codec dumps into the main cutscenes and it bogged the game down. I want that level of depth in my game, but I want it conveyed in different ways depending on what kind of information it is, optional or not. If some people don't have patience for codec tapes, it's no skin off my back, because I love sitting on that chopper and listening to deep good character shit.

It's the best part of Peace Walker, too. (The main story in that isn't nearly as good as the ones on the tapes)

For me MGS 3 and 4 explained the patriots, no more explanation needed.

it explained it sure, but it never resonated. It was the beginning and end of a character arc, without the middle.

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

MGSV could have explored the MGS3 radio crew and really fleshed out how they came to be the characters the are by MGS1, but it doesn't. They barely even mention them except in passing in optional tapes. Huey mentions some doctor who has managed to clone people. And I don't even remember them mentioning Donald Anderson at all, which means they either didn't or that it was such a secondary mention that it's not memorable. Outside of Ocelot, none of the MGS3 crew are in MGSV in any crucial form. Not even Big Boss. He helps V and then fucks off into the sunset.

MGSV is a terrible "missing link" game and does the barest of minimum to make the MGS3=Patriots plotline even make any kind of sense. You could skip V and head straight into MGS4 and your understanding of that Patriots reveal would still be the same as if you had played V.

Anderson is mentioned in one of the Zero conversation tapes, he's talking to someone and tells them that he's taken over a lot of Zero's duties as he's ill. It's either Ocelot or Kaz, i can't quite remember. But he mentions that Anderson is working on the Patriot AI too.

 

[Punished_Snake]

They're still very pervy bro, not just stupid.

Call them what you like, I'm with you.

 

[ChimpanzeeThat]

Why does Venom Boss lug around a canteen on his side when he never uses it?

I think he uses it to fill up the water pistol if that counts lol

 

[JackelZXA]

I think he uses it to fill up the water pistol if that counts lol

Bringing the water pistol with you on mission 45 should have gotten you a different ending.

 

[AAMARMO]

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gEdQ5KpY8Y

 

[JackelZXA]

No matter what happens, the ruse cruise will never sink.

 

[razzmahtazz]

Everyone can enjoy everything. I'm still playing MGSV.
No, it's annoying when they say, directly or not, that you're not smart enough to understand Kojima's genius. Because we all did it, we just believe he didn't achieve a good result.
I'm also shocked at how many people say Quiet is the best female character of the saga. I mean, I just closed the game and I had her ass on my face on the helicopter.

Eh, I've gone thru worse(Star Wars Canon discussions). Its entirely civil here. A lot of people acknowledge the failings of the story as a whole but hang on to the great ideas and conceptual potential and there are those that don't like it as a whole. Still good that nobody is directly saying "I'm smarter than you" stuff.

Personally, I just like the what-if, conceptual process of linking stuff that doesn't make sense in the story rather than just saying that shit is bad period no questions no suggestions as to how it could work. Probably stemming from my interest in doing the same from the "mess" that was Star Wars EU.

TLDR: To each his/her own.

 

[Graphics Horse]

I figured it was just the way the custom character was used, and they might have had an alternative version of the Ground Zeroes mission planned.

 

[SuperStiltzkin]

They mention strangelove assisting sigint in ai research after peace walker, as well as implications that the mammal pod became the blueprint for the patriots program. There's also plenty of references to darpa and sigint (who is the darpa chief, afterall) Paramedic gets some fun references in some tapes where huey reveals that no one knows Clark is a she. For an MGS game, putting story in optional tapes is where I want it.

MGS4 put the codec dumps into the main cutscenes and it bogged the game down. I want that level of depth in my game, but I want it conveyed in different ways depending on what kind of information it is, optional or not. If some people don't have patience for codec tapes, it's no skin off my back, because I love sitting on that chopper and listening to deep good character shit.

I like listening to the tapes too (except Code Talker's experiment tapes), but even what you get in the tapes, in terms of learning about Sigint and Para-medic, is not substantial enough to call it "story" or "character" development. These characters STILL go from point A to point Z in terms of characterization that they feel like completely different characters.

My problem isn't that you have to listen to the tapes to even get a vague idea of what these characters have been up to, but that these questions regarding Cipher should have been the main plot. Instead they get swept aside under the rug for Skull Face and Parasites.

I don't want to be beat over the head with answers and explanations, but I can't sit back and just accept "people change over time" to be a sufficient answer. Nothing you learn in the tapes changes anything you learn about them in MGS4.

Anderson is mentioned in one of the Zero conversation tapes, he's talking to someone and tells them that he's taken over a lot of Zero's duties as he's ill. It's either Ocelot or Kaz, i can't quite remember. But he mentions that Anderson is working on the Patriot AI too.

Yeah, that's great. But for someone who has succeeded Zero in this illuminati-esque organization as the new CEO and creator of the Patriots, maybe we should have heard something from this crucial character or perhaps there should have been some deeper exploration into this huge power shift.

 

[RK9039]

He can't tell anyone because nothing is happening.

 

[Drencrom]

same reason why he never uses the toilet

or eats

I know you're joking, but the guy can get picked up by Pequad at any time, no real need to walk around with a full canteen if so.

Also, am I the only who thought we would be able to eat animals and stuff like in MGS3 when this was announced... I thought you would be ablet to sustain yourself like that in the open world. But I guess there's really no need when there is regen health, but it would be cool if they implemented hunting and eating in some way.

 

[Zomba13]

On 9/11/3011 at 9:11pm the ingsoc and the black hound will align and DLC chapter 3 PEACE will be released that shows that Venom was actually real Big Boss all along and all the tapes are hallucinations from Big Boss and he really didn't have a robot hand or horn they were hallucinations too and the Big Boss truth stuff was also hallucinations because war is bad.

It's like poetry.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

One last punishment I must endure. Old Snake meant MGSV with that, interesting. Kojima is a genius.

 

[Teuoxton]

The tape says the mystery man died in Egypt in 1941, well before The Boss became The Boss (or even The Joy, for that matter). The Sorrow survives all the way through WW2, goes back to the Soviet Union, and then meets The Boss again in 1962 in Tselinoyarsk, where she kills him (you can actually see his skeleton during the Virtuous Mission, if you look all the way over to the left after The Boss throws you off the bridge and you have to heal your wounds).

The twists keep coming I guess. I missed so much lore!

 

[Reebot]

I love sitting on that chopper and listening to deep good character shit.

The tapes are a very far cry from deep, good, or character building. That last word fits nicely.

 

[LeonSPBR]

Quiet is by far the least excusable thing in the story. I'm a big fan of the MGSV's story, but she's the one of two exceptions.

However, she's inexcusable because of the objectification, not her character. Her character is actually decent. I thought she was great up until her last cutscene when she turned into a martyr-for-males. Up until that point her actions, backstory, and deeds are all well thought-out and badass.

It's just the arbitrary nudity, sexy dancing, and constant tit shots that fuck it up. Basically one of thise 'execution' fuck ups.

I loved Quiet in this game. Frankly I didn't gave a fuck about the sexy or perverted shots about Quiet in this game. Saw game with way worse shit than that, so IMO the sexy Quiet thing to me, just showed that this a Hideo Kojima game.

Also the martyr-for-male is kinda stupid IMO. To me she sacrificed her life for a man that she came to respect, so to me it was heroic rather than a martyr.

 

[FlutterPuffs]

I'm really enjoying the meltdowns over the story.

It's as entertaining as the gameplay.

 

[Imm0rt4l]

On peace day there's going to be a patch with new missions. A side op where you have to retrieve classified intel in the form of an msx cartridge. Then you get access to chapter 3.

 

[Reebot]

One last punishment I must endure. Old Snake meant MGSV with that, interesting. Kojima is a genius.

Kojima confirmed masterful storyteller

 

[Reebot]

I loved Quiet in this game. Frankly I didn't gave a fuck about the sexy or perverted shots about Quiet in this game. Saw game with way worse shit than that, so IMO the sexy Quiet thing to me, just showed that this a Hideo Kojima game.

Wait what? Is this some kind of not worst standard? I guess Custer's Revenge had worse depictions of women so we're off the hook here.

 

[JackelZXA]

The tapes are a very far cry from deep, good, or character building. That last word fits nicely.

whatever dude. I liked them. codecs and tapes are the best part of all of these games. (Peace Walker gives you more tapes then you know what to do with)

Wait what? Is this some kind of not worst standard? I guess Custer's Revenge had worse depictions of women so we're off the hook here.

Quiet's character is cool and super interesting. It's just the camera direction that was a problem. (And some of the idle animations)

 

[CambriaRising]

The tapes are a very far cry from deep, good, or character building. That last word fits nicely.

Are you and others just sitting around waiting for someone to come in and say "I liked this" just to shit on their opinion or what?

 

[Alienous]

I'm really enjoying the meltdowns over the story.

It's as entertaining as the gameplay.

It has given me more hours of entertainment reflecting on its stupidity that the gameplay so I guess that's true.

Are you and others just sitting around waiting for someone to come in and say "I liked this" just to shit on their opinion or what?

We've gone through 400 or so pages of evaluating its flaws, so I can imagine that opinions of liking it are initially met with hostility.

I'd like to know the reasons why people liked particular story aspects, because I've yet to be converted.

 

[Reebot]

whatever dude. I liked them. codecs and tapes are the best part of all of these games. (Peace Walker gives you more tapes then you know what to do with)

Codecs and tapes in past games were predominately conversations, usually commenting on a specific action in game.

MGS V is almost entirely monologues or interrogations, exposition dumps with no character interaction beyond basic questioning. The few ones that aren't come off like recorded plays, missing key visual information that would have greatly enhanced the drama. I'm more than certain these were scripted as cutscenes.

That's hugely different. Like, hugely. I'm not telling you not to enjoy them but they're not as you're describing.

 

[Prototype]

Ass Effect 3 ending is still the worse.


Not to say I loved the story and ending in MGSV, it's still bad. But no way it can be compared.

 

[Reebot]

Are you and others just sitting around waiting for someone to come in and say "I liked this" just to shit on their opinion or what?

Lol. You caught me.

I'm tired of this passive-aggressive dismissal becoming more and more common in this thread. His post was just a "I like this" statement tied with an implication that detractors don't like character work. You can see this time and time again; you only don't call it out since it's in the game's favour.

 

[Drencrom]

On peace day there's going to be a patch with new missions. A side op where you have to retrieve classified intel in the form of an msx cartridge. Then you get access to chapter 3.

"Peace day never came.... Every morning I wake up expecting it to come but it is always three days away...

That can't be it. I haven't woken up at all.

It is just a dream. It is all a dream..."​

 

[Chariot]

"Peace day never came.... Every morning I wake up expecting it to come but it is always three days away...

That can't be it. I haven't woken up at all.

It is just a dream. It is all a dream..."​

Dayum!

 

[Alienous]

The tapes are a lot less interesting than the codecs of past games and I wasn't sure why I had that opinion until we discussed it in this thread.

They aren't very character or personality driven. It's not like Paramedic enthusing over her love of movies, or Otacon attempting Mei Ling's proverbs. They're information dumps; 'here's the plot we couldn't find an elegant way of incorporating into the story'.

Even Peace Walker done it better. You have the wildlife expert, the local expert, the technology expert in Cecile, Amanda and Huey, respectively. It serves a function beyond informing the player of plot stuff, which is only really seen in the Hamburger tapes in The Phantom Pain.

They also aren't delivered well, I found. "Here's 6 new tapes", instead of listening to that stuff when it is contextually relevant (like contacting Ocelot during a boss battle).

 

[Charlouie Jonesman]

Codecs and tapes in past games were predominately conversations, usually commenting on a specific action in game.

MGS V is almost entirely monologues or interrogations, exposition dumps with no character interaction beyond basic questioning. The few ones that aren't come off like recorded plays, missing key visual information that would have greatly enhanced the drama. I'm more than certain these were scripted as cutscenes.

That's hugely different. Like, hugely. I'm not telling you not to enjoy them but they're not as you're describing.

Yeah, I didn't mind the tapes in PW at all, because they were basically the conversations between Snake and his pals between your last and the next mission, they still worked as part of the main narrative. In MGSV it's all way too disconnected from your adventure.

 

[JackelZXA]

Codecs and tapes in past games were predominately conversations, usually commenting on a specific action in game.

MGS V is almost entirely monologues or interrogations, exposition dumps with no character interaction beyond basic questioning. The few ones that aren't come off like recorded plays, missing key visual information that would have greatly enhanced the drama. I'm more than certain these were scripted as cutscenes.

That's hugely different. Like, hugely. I'm not telling you not to enjoy them but they're not as you're describing.

Most of the tapes are straight up conversations, they're just not with snake. Most of them are Miller and Ocelot going at it, and I love that. "No character interaction beyond basic questioning" Have you forgotten that it's basically a meme that most of Snake's dialog in the other 5 games is repeating the last word someone says with a question mark at the end?

I don't get them being scripted as cutscenes at all. They're scripted like radio drama, just as they were in peace walker. I listened to every single tape as you get them (basically after every main mission) and it felt like I was getting an Ocelot + Miller + Huey parallel narrative to enjoy as I did my Snake vs Skullface story out in the field.

In Peace Walker, almost all the characterization is in the tapes. If you just watch the "Peace Walker Movie" you can come away from it barely understanding who anyone is or why you should care. (It's basically how that episode of metal gear scanlon on giant bomb went for peace walker)

Lol. You caught me.

I'm tired of this passive-aggressive dismissal becoming more and more common in this thread. His post was just a "I like this" statement tied with an implication that detractors don't like character work. You can see this time and time again; you only don't call it out since it's in the game's favour.

I was replying to your active dismissal. Passive aggressive shitting is going around just as much.

And really, when was the last time you did full playthroughs of the other 5 games? A good half of each game is split between monologues and snake repeating the last thing someone said as a question. I didnt realize it until someone recently pointed it out, but Snake and Volgin basically never exchange dialog the entire game of 3. 2 basically has a fifteen minute monologue about the nature of information before the final boss, mgs4 is almost one giant exposition dump....like maybe people just forgot all but their favorite parts of these games, but they were big soap operas.

 

[Salaadin]

We've gone through 400 or so pages of evaluating its flaws, so I can imagine that opinions of liking it are initially met with hostility.

This stifles discussion. Very few are going to stick around to explain themselves when they're met with hostility for merely liking something.

Not accusing you, btw. Just making a statement.

 

[SnakeLinkSonic]

"Peace day never came.... Every morning I wake up expecting it to come but it is always three days away...

That can't be it. I haven't woken up at all.

It is just a dream. It is all a dream..."​

A Man forced to Kill
A Man forced to be a 'Snake'
A Man forced into a Lie
A Man forced into Solitude
A Man forced to become Inhuman
A Man forced into Black Ops
A Man forced to Kneel
A Man forced to Sacrifice
A Man forced to Suffer
One Man forced to seek REVENGE!

 

[Alienous]

This stifles discussion. Very few are going to stick around to explain themselves when they're met with hostility for merely liking something.

Not accusing you, btw. Just making a statement.

I don't disagree with that.

I don't think it's a concious thing either. The thread remains interesting.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I remember you guys being so fucking hyped and posting that in the community thread after the intro.

 

[bananafactory]

Despite the flaws I still really enjoyed the game and the story. It was presented differently but it was actually quite focused for the most part. My only big gripe is the Eli loose thread which apparently was cut (which is a huge shame).

 

[TheStruggler]

I didn't know snake could go colorblind, I mean I've seen it in episode 51 though. After dodging an explosion I couldn't see the color red on my screen for like 2 minutes.


He's angry when solid snake is knocking at his door. He actually smirks when he comes to the realization that he isn't really big boss.

Not so sure, in the end when he smirks thats when he's like fuck yeah I am big boss, then hen time jumps forward to MG1 and snake is covered in blood he is pissed that he is sacrificing himself anf everything he did meant nothing. In MG1 it is the real big boss that is leading the mission, near the end "big boss's" codec number changes, we can assume the new number is venom trying to lead solid snake away from him because Venom doesnt want to die because in the end he felt used b big boss because he spread a legacy, lost his own past and for what, he has to take the fall for it which is why he is mad

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

"Peace day never came.... Every morning I wake up expecting it to come but it is always three days away...

That can't be it. I haven't woken up at all.

It is just a dream. It is all a dream..."​

LMAO So good. Possibly best meta-story ever told in gaming. A meta to surpass Metal Gear (Solid 2). He knew people would data mine into the game, especially the dissatisfied ones.

True 'Peace' is simply an unattainable thing unless you datamine it within yourself.