Support NeoGAF

[Makai]

I'm gonna go eat a hotdog while I think about this.

 

[Hopfrog]

Harmony with nature? Just look up Paleo-Indians and the Late Pleistocene extinctions. Though there is debate over the exact causes of the extinctions, many scholars agree that humans played an important role.

The notion of pre-civilized humans living in harmony with nature has a shoddy foundation.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Thread doing little to challenge my view that Primitivsm is little more than edgy pseudo-intellectualism by tryhards living in developed societies who are priviliged enough to think humanity being reduced to a few tens of millions and living at a subsistence level of existence with effectively no medical care is a good thing.

Dismiss horrendous suffering of countless millions with an obscene, callous "natural selection" attitude dozens of words away from claiming your entire position is about minimising suffering.

Grotesque levels of sanctimony.

 

[iamblades]

How can modern times be described as anything else than a hellhole? Unless your focusing on first world civilization only which makes up only a small segment of the entire human populace

It's not just the first world though.

Things are better across the world, and just keep getting better, and the third world is rapidly catching up with the 1st. We are living in the most globally peaceful era the world has ever seen, and the vast majority of the world has more than enough to eat(and those that don't it's not usually because the food doesn't exist, it's because political structures are preventing it from reaching those who need it).

 

[squidyj]

Thanks dude! Lol

It's the dumbest idea. "oh man we should live in nature" nature is horrible and cruel, it is everything competing for itself, it is parasites and predators and starvation and brutality. It gets worse when you don't have a society, cause then you're in the state of nature and if I want your shit or your girl, or if i just fucking feel like it I can kill you. That makes me the fittest right? I killed you you're gone and I got the fucking snake you killed for meager sustenance or whatever.

what a bunch of nonsense.

 

[Pluto]

I mean shit, fast forward 12,000 years later and we have fucked up everything. We're killing the earth, ...

We're really not, we're killing a few species but in the big picture we're not doing much harm, we're like a mosquito bite for earth, we're causing a little itch and are probably annoying earth right now but in a few million years she probably wouldn't even remember.

 

[Veritigo_X]

Have you actually lived in a economically developing nation and talked to and interacted with the people living there? Or is this just some ivory tower BS that because they aren't materially well off as first world nations then it must be a hell hole?

I'm going to guess it's the latter.

 

[teruterubozu]

Those aliens should have never taught us crap.

 

[PeskyToaster]

It also ignores the fact that diseases have killed more people than all the wars combined and it's a thing we've done well at halting. Smallpox is the big one but in the first world bacterial infections are practically a non-factor.

 

[ZoltanXerxes]

We are in harmony with nature. It's natural for us to create civilizations.

 

[Who]

We're really not, we're killing a few species but in the big picture we're not doing much harm, we're like a mosquito bite for earth, we're causing a little itch and are probably annoying earth right now but in a few million years she probably wouldn't even remember.

All life of all species > a single human life

 

[Veritigo_X]

Heh, OP junior'd.

 

[John Kowalski]

We're really not, we're killing a few species but in the big picture we're not doing much harm, we're like a mosquito bite for earth, we're causing a little itch and are probably annoying earth right now but in a few million years she probably wouldn't even remember.

Everything > a single human life

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Thread doing little to challenge my view that Primitivsm is little more than edgy pseudo-intellectualism by tryhards living in developed societies who are priviliged enough to think humanity being reduced to a few tens of millions and living at a subsistence level of existence with effectively no medical care is a good thing.

Dismiss horrendous suffering of countless millions with an obscene, callous "natural selection" attitude dozens of words away from claiming your entire position is about minimising suffering.

Grotesque levels of sanctimony.

I also think it depends too heavily on an unexamined attitude that human nature is inherently destructive or machiavellian or whatever. Yet when you look at most current psychological theories about morality or criminal behaviour, they tend to support more of a neutral 'learning theory' type of model. We're not inherently good or bad, which means we can accumulate wisdom and change according to our circumstances. Setting ourselves back to the point where we have to struggle just to survive won't do anything to make us better, it would just undo most of what we've learned through all of the painful crises in our collective history.

 

[teruterubozu]

Heh, OP junior'd.

Back to pre-agrarian posting.

 

[PeskyToaster]

All life of all species > a single human life

I would sacrifice a fuck ton of animals to save my life or someone else's.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Heh, OP junior'd.

Well, who didn't see that coming given the progression of the thread?

 

[liliththepale]

Well, who didn't see that coming given the progression of the thread?

No, he must not have.

 

[Who]

We are in harmony with nature. It's natural for us to create civilizations.

That's a good point. I'm not agreeing but it's a good point

 

[PdotMichael]

than what are trophy Wifes? Warring tribes would kill the men and marry/rape the woman.

Basically the story of the old testament.

 

[ChouGoku]

How can modern times be described as anything else than a hellhole? Unless your focusing on first world civilization only which makes up only a small segment of the entire human populace

As a whole we are living in the safest times in human history, its not as bad today as it was in the past, no matter what the news tries to tell you.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/video/this-is-the-safest-time-in-history/vp-AAciwYx

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/12/the_world_is_not_falling_apart_the_trend_lines_reveal_an_increasingly_peaceful.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Ours-is-the-most-peaceful-time-in-history-Steven-Pinker/articleshow/11583435.cms

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100213772/we-may-not-feel-it-but-weve-never-been-safer/

 

[Who]

I would sacrifice a fuck ton of animals to save my life or someone else's.

I strongly disagree with this sentiment

 

[EchoChamber]

I strongly disagree with this sentiment

I totally agree the sentiment you are disagreeing.

 

[YoungHav]

Bruh, you'd be so dead right now. I'd rather have this soulless society with a modern lifespan than go back to hunter-gatherer. You romanticize the past... war mongering exploitative global elites would have only been replaced by some war lord or uncooperative violent tribe.

 

[WickedLaharl]

Looks like a secret society is trying to silence the op

 

[Orcastar]

Does anyone else feel like the universe would of been better off if we would have just stayed in harmony with nature?

Of course not. The universe does not care. The entirety of human history has taken place in such a short amount of time that from the universe's perspective (as if there was such a thing) we might as well have never existed. So what if we fuck up a single planet? There are more planets in the universe than your mind can comprehend. In a few thousand years humanity will have died out and the universe will go on as it has for billions of years.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I strongly disagree with this sentiment

You strongly disagree with this statement, but what about these?

Thread doing little to challenge my view that Primitivsm is little more than edgy pseudo-intellectualism by tryhards living in developed societies who are priviliged enough to think humanity being reduced to a few tens of millions and living at a subsistence level of existence with effectively no medical care is a good thing.

Dismiss horrendous suffering of countless millions with an obscene, callous "natural selection" attitude dozens of words away from claiming your entire position is about minimising suffering.

Grotesque levels of sanctimony.

I also think it depends too heavily on an unexamined attitude that human nature is inherently destructive or machiavellian or whatever. Yet when you look at most current psychological theories about morality or criminal behaviour, they tend to support more of a neutral 'learning theory' type of model. We're not inherently good or bad, which means we can accumulate wisdom and change according to our circumstances. Setting ourselves back to the point where we have to struggle just to survive won't do anything to make us better, it would just undo most of what we've learned through all of the painful crises in our collective history.

You've sidestepped posts detailing reasons why your thought process on this subject is narrow, and when presented with solutions or actual answers, you do nothing but pick the easiest posts to respond to. I don't know if it's just me, but I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't actually want answers or a discussion to be had. You thought you had an echo chamber here, and when it failed, you miserably skip around in a vain attempt to salvage this topic and your opinions.

Dude.

Take the L.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Of course pre-civilization could have made bad games if that was a priority over being killed.

whoa who said anything about The Order:1886©?

 

[Who]

You strongly disagree with this statement, but what about these?





You've sidestepped posts detailing reasons why your thought process on this subject is narrow, and when presented with solutions or actual answers, you do nothing but pick the easiest posts to respond to. I don't know if it's just me, but I'm starting to get the feeling that you don't actually want answers or a discussion to be had. You thought you had an echo chamber here, and when it failed, you miserably skip around in a vain attempt to salvage this topic and your opinions.

Dude.

Take the L.

Bro I'm too drunk to respond to anything but easy responses ¯_(&#12484_/¯

I give my word I'll consider those walls of texts when I'm sober enough to consider them

 

[John Kowalski]

It's ok sometimes i also wish i had never been born.

 

[Butts-a-plenty]

than what are trophy Wifes? Warring tribes would kill the men and marry/rape the woman.

Men attempting to expand their offspring and thus their tribe. Similar behavior can be seen in the animal world of males aggressively reproducing. There was really no concept of morals like we have today and cultural norms were based around survival over all else.

 

[Piecake]

This is the point I was going to clarify. Thanks for that.

Most early evidence of conflict are from the Mesolithic time period. Even before agriculture we were developing food stores, which lead to increased sedentism, staying in one place for a much longer time. This also lead to much more prosperity and population numbers grew. With that comes more social stratification and inequality.

We are also still unclear of the conflicts or relationships between early humans and neanderthals, but we have underestimated how early migration to Europe was.

Yep, I think this passage that I have copied says it well. The whole idea that we should have stayed hunter-gatherers basically means that a lot of humans should have just fucking died. Weather cannot support that many hunter-gatherers? Woops, too bad, so sad.

The climate in southwestern Asia warmed up considerably at the end of the Ice Age, after 15,000 B.C. Forest expanded rapidly, there was more rainfall than today, and many areas were rich in animal and plant foods.

A. The eastern Mediterranean coast lay at the junction of Mediterranean, continental, and monsoon-influenced climates. This combination nurtured a unique and ever-changing set of ecotones—places where ecological zones meet. These were the places where human populations were densest.
B. The early Holocene climate varied constantly from continental to Mediterranean. With warmer temperatures came more forest cover and increasing summer aridity. At the same time, the plant cover was more diverse, with many more wild cereal grasses, harvested in spring.
C. These climatic circumstances were extremely favorable to huntergatherers, such as the Natufians (Lecture Thirteen), who relied on a combination of game and plant foods. In many places, they may have unconsciously contributed to the diversification of grasses by deliberately firing the vegetation in the dry season. This process encouraged new growth for game to graze on.

II. The Younger Dryas of about 11,000 B.C. brought an abrupt change to cooler, very dry conditions, with marked contrasts in the seasons. This shift required major adjustments by hunter-gatherer groups.

A. Many groups responded by developing much more effective grainstorage technology and by exploiting wild cereal grasses as much as possible, grinding them to make meal. Very often, these groups moved into more sedentary settlements.
B. All this was an adjustment to a world with less surface water and months on end when game and plant foods were in short supply. Some groups congregated around lakes or major rivers, where they experimented with the deliberate planting of wild grasses.
C. The Natufians had harvested cereal grasses on hillsides and in fertile valleys, while exploiting gazelle and other game on the lowlands. This pattern of specialized hunting and gathering was widespread in southwestern Asia by 11,000 B.C.
D. For example, the inhabitants of the Abu Hureyra mound in Syria’s Euphrates Valley hunted gazelle to the exclusion of almost any other game. They also lived off about half a dozen staple grasses but knew of at least 200 others for eating, medical, and ritual purposes. To a considerable extent, they were managing and tending their environment well before they domesticated plants.
E. When they started experimenting with the planting of wild grasses, the harvesters imposed entirely new selective pressures on cultivated stands of wild grasses.
1. They first cultivated wild wheat and barley, which in its native state, grew in dense stands. One could harvest the plants by tapping them with one’s hands. The brittle hinge that joined seed and stalk would break off easily.
2. Selection for a tougher rachis began the moment people started harvesting grasses with flint-bladed sickles or uprooting entire plants. Computer simulations suggest the changeover occurred with remarkable speed, perhaps in less than a century.
3. The changeover was so rapid that one archaeological level may well contain wild seeds, while the one above it, after the changeover, contains domesticated grasses.

III. This set of selective pressures developed first in a small region of southwestern Asia called the Levantine Corridor, running from the Damascus area of Syria into the lower Jordan Valley and across to the Euphrates River Valley.
A. The corridor had reliable water supplies and a relatively high water table, which enabled foragers to shift wild grains from their natural habitats into well-watered areas near streams and lakes.
B. The earliest farming settlements in the world occur in the Levantine Corridor.

IV. Two major archaeological sites document this all-important transition in human life and give us a general impression of the changeover.

A. Abu Hureyra mound, located on an ecotone in the Euphrates Valley, began in 10,500 B.C. as a small village settlement of a few families. The families lived in semi-subterranean houses with simple reed roofs supported by wooden uprights.
1. The climate was warmer and wetter than today. The inhabitants harvested oak and pistachios in fall, as well as wild einkorn and rye. They also killed hundreds of Persian
gazelles as they migrated through the valley each spring. With such a favorable location, the village grew to as many as 400 people.
2. Thousands of small seeds, recovered by sophisticated flotation methods, document the effects of increasingly dry years. At first, the people relied heavily on acorns and pistachios. As the droughts intensified, the forests retreated from near the site, and the people turned to wild einkorn and rye and other grasses.
3. Eventually, even more arid conditions and, perhaps, depletion of firewood supplies caused the abandonment of the village.
B. Suddenly, in about 10,000 B.C., a new village rose on the same site, this time of mud-brick houses with flat roofs and courtyards. Now the people were cultivating einkorn, lentils, and rye. The new economy was so successful that the village grew rapidly in size.
1. By 8,500 B.C., the settlement covered nearly 30 acres atop low mounds of earlier occupation debris. Suddenly, in a generation or so, gazelle hunting gave way to herds of goats and sheep.
2. Now Abu Hureyra was a farming village, a closely knit community of rectangular, one-story mud-brick houses joined by narrow lanes and courtyards.
3. Abu Hureyra flourished until its final abandonment in about 6,500 B.C.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

OP when are you gonna start drowning babies for the greater good? When are we gonna turn the entire planet into Democratic Kampuchea?

 

[jerry1594]

It's not good or bad, it's just something that happened. You can like it or don't.

 

[Who]

OP when are you gonna start drowning babies for the greater good? When are we gonna turn the entire planet into Democratic Kampuchea?

Dude I've been drowning babies for like 5 years now wtf are you talking about m, I'm already there homie

EDIT: oh fuck I'm juniored!! I'm out, sorry guys

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

 

[Htown]

How can modern times be described as anything else than a hellhole? Unless your focusing on first world civilization only which makes up only a small segment of the entire human populace

You just shared your ridiculous thoughts with people who are laughing at you from the other side of the planet, and it happened basically instantly. You did that using a complex system of writing that wouldn't exist if everyone still had to hunt and gather. You live in a world where more people have decent access to food and basic medical care than ever before.

Of course it's better that people can grow food and can have societies and science and music and literature, and anything besides a fucking pile of dirt and a sharp stick and a scratch on a cave wall, and of course it's good that we have advanced in the last ten thousand years. Are you high?

This thread is maybe the stupidest thing I hae seen in the twenty years I have been on the internet, holy shit.

 

[Jenov]

This avatar fits quite well.

But seriously OP, you're delusional. If you're measuring this ideal of yours by suffering, then we have progressed to a point where human suffering is at it's lowest compared to the rampant disease and conflicts of the past. With more advances in technology and agriculture it may be eliminated all together, just takes time. Some temporary suffering is just a phase in our overall progression.

 

[GYNGA]

Civilization is OK from my experience. At least we have computers now

 

[Shadow_Lord]

Dude I've been drowning babies for like 5 years now wtf are you talking about m, I'm already there homie

EDIT: oh fuck I'm juniored!! I'm out, sorry guys

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

You have to throw a ring in the flames of Mount Doom/

 

[WickedLaharl]

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

join the illuminati

 

[TheSpoiler]

Dude I've been drowning babies for like 5 years now wtf are you talking about m, I'm already there homie

EDIT: oh fuck I'm juniored!! I'm out, sorry guys

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

I think you have to trade something, like a bundle of sticks or feces.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

boy this thread took a turn

 

[CHEEZMO™]

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

Nothing. Nature selected you to die from easily remedied Badpostitis.

 

[John Kowalski]

Dude I've been drowning babies for like 5 years now wtf are you talking about m, I'm already there homie

EDIT: oh fuck I'm juniored!! I'm out, sorry guys

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

You have to behave. Basically prove that you'd make valuable threads.

 

[Jenov]

Dude I've been drowning babies for like 5 years now wtf are you talking about m, I'm already there homie

EDIT: oh fuck I'm juniored!! I'm out, sorry guys

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

gather you warriors and declare war on the rival mod tribe

 

[DiipuSurotu]

thread backfire

 

[Nivash]

Dude I've been drowning babies for like 5 years now wtf are you talking about m, I'm already there homie

EDIT: oh fuck I'm juniored!! I'm out, sorry guys

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

Whatever you have to do you'd better grow up quickly, junior mortality in pre-membership societies is like 40 %

 

[Who]

thread backfire

Lol dude every thread I make backfires, I was expecting it. Wasn't expecting dat junior status doe. Got burned.

 

[Htown]

EDIT 2: what does one have to do to become un-juniored?

Why are you trying to farm information from us? I'm sure if you hunt around you'll find the answer

 

[Who]

Why are you trying to farm information from us? I'm sure if you hunt around you'll find the answer

Missed opportunity to say I'll gather the information needed to find an answer