Street Fighter V Roster Discussion: P-P-P-P-PATTERN BREAKER

Status
Not open for further replies.
SF4 was hard on casuals because it was so-execution based and didn't have a lot of damage, so it was a perfect storm of them needing lots of execution to be good that it made unapproachable for a lot of people.

I'm late to the discussion, but as someone who pegs themselves as a "casual" player I agree with this. My biggest problem is that I'll dedicate as much time (or in cases like a Souls game, more) to other games and I have a habit of only playing one at a time that dates back to the days of SNES. I found that with SF4 in particular that I would take long stretches away and then, when I jump back in, spending an exorbitant amount of time doing execution reps in training was a requirement. And that isn't to say that it's truly any more difficult than past SF games but as I've gotten older... well, the struggle is most certainly real. I've hit my thirties now and muscle memory, twitch reflexes, and even game knowledge (although, watching tourneys helps to minimize this deterioration) goes bye bye much quicker than it used to. Also, having less free time means that I want to maximize my fun which figuring out stuff in training mode can definitely be, but when you need it to drill back to what I consider competent execution standards it kind of sucks.

I'm attracted to fighting games for that unmistakeable rush of competition and that distinct feeling of constant learning. No other games have successfully replicated this for me. (and I've made a good chunk of money competing in and running FPS tourneys) After believing you have a matchup figured out, someone comes along who plays a character unlike anything you've seen. It's fucking awesome and motivating beyond anything else I've experienced in gaming. Nothing is ever truly "figured out" and, therefore, the game is never truly conquered/completed/finished/beaten/etc. There's always something worthwhile to go back to. I just don't enjoy the part of it that feels like a job/chore and feeling like I need to break through a wall to find what I find satisfying doesn't make the destination feel anymore rewarding because it's a process I've already been through.

Digressing back to lack of upkeep on my execution, I recently started playing Ultra again within the past few weeks after taking a hiatus a few months after it released. My motivation being, of course, the itch that the SFV beta left to scratch. SFV was honestly a breath of fresh air in that I was able to jump in cold and hit links consistently after only a few minutes. (thanks, frame buffer!) Within about ten minutes, I was launched into my first match where I blew up a special-happy Bison with Ryu fundamentals. He was going for nothing but big damage and, if I didn't know how to defend against it or he knew how to set it up, then I would've deserved to lose. It certainly wasn't the most satisfying/thrilling victory, but I confidently knew that I won because I had better game knowledge and could take a bit of satisfaction in the victory because of it. More importantly, however, I felt comfortable playing in spite of it being my first match because I wasn't overtly worried that I would drop anything -- and so I had a fun time instead of a stressful one.

In my latest stint of Ultra, I have yet to actually play a match against anyone. Given I'm not putting long stretches of time into it, but I just haven't hit that comfort zone with neither stick nor pad. Hell, there's even a chance that I'm past the point of no return and now I never will. I'll be forced to scrub it out until I drop the game completely. I don't really care if I'm taking a bunch of Ls, but it's when you know how to do something but feel your body working against you that things get frustrating/discouraging. And yes, I certainly get that some like strict execution and derive satisfaction from doing what many others physically can't, but as I've stated above I love fighting games for a different reason and I know that I'm not alone in that. And damn, in dicking around with Omega more I'm finding myself actually having fun learning characters that I never cared to touch in the 4 series before.

Regarding damage specifically, I don't necessarily need or even want it to be a part of V. If it is, then cool. It makes in-the-moment decision making all the more important. If not, then that just means I'll be afforded more opportunities to adjust as the match goes on. Basically, I perceive quick matches as being several comparatively smaller learning opportunities vs a long match being one big learning opportunity. Either is totally cool with me and both bring a different level of enjoyment, so I'm not too concerned with wherever this lands.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness post. I'm just really looking forward to V and I honestly haven't been this excited for a new fighter since my teens. I feel as though I can actually be a part of the community and stay that way -- on my own terms -- instead of feeling like I'm excessively punished for taking a break to do the other things I enjoy. There absolutely should be a divide between casual play and those who put in more time than anyone else, but I don't think the curve between the two plot points should be anywhere near as steep as it was with 4. That's my own selfish opinion.

...damn I wish my old ass didn't love Street Fighter so much growing up and I liked Rising Thunder's aesthetic more.
 
3S for movement makes sense but i don't like suggesting Alpha 3 because it's just so chock-full of systems that won't exist in 5.

it's been a while since i played A3 - were the normals that much more effective than in A2?

I can see that. I think the way normals feel, and specifically the way crush counters work, are closer to alpha 3, the way counterhit fierces/roundhouses would launch them, have a special sound effect, allow juggles.

I see your point, though, and A2's footsies/spacing and simplicity is probably closer t SF5 works.
 
What you mean by that?

We don't know exactly where SFV takes place in the timeline, but it's either before or after SFIII. As a result, all of the characters should visibly be as old as/older than they were in SFIII, which I believe was roughly 10 years after SFII? Either way, a significant amount of time has passed since Alpha, so it's safe to say that Mika, Karin, and Birdie should have physically aged.

It's only strongly noticeable with Karin being an adult and Dictator being gray right now, though there are some subtler differences (Chun-Li appears to be wearing more make-up than in previous games, for example, and the visibly-older HOT RYU alt supposedly plays a part in the story), and the story might make the characters' aging a bit clearer, too.
 
I think SF3 for movement and Alpha 3 for counter hit system and the general way normals feel is the best way to prepare.

I don't agree with anybody saying Omega mode, since that's still bogged down with stuff like fadcs, invincible backdashes, etc.

The system mechanics of SF5 play more like the older SFs, imo.

Pretty much this. It feels like Alpha + SF3, minus custom combos & parries, + V-system.

Inevitably they're going to allow for critical art selection, and I think that's when Capcom will have a chance to really open things up. In SF3, your super art really affected your playstyle to a great deal (affecting meter length/stock, besides the obvious set up differences). They could build on that later on for V. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the critical art is tied to the V-skill specifically. Could introduce some more strategy.

If Sean comes back, the yellow gi has to go

As for the basketball, take it or leave it (preferably get rid of it)

What? The basketball defines him, as do the mismatching gi colors. This is sacrilege.
 
Who is even scared of a basketball? Not even Kobe is scared, and we all saw him fighting.

LYYZBbf.gif
 
Pretty much this. It feels like Alpha + SF3, minus custom combos & parries, + V-system.

Inevitably they're going to allow for critical art selection, and I think that's when Capcom will have a chance to really open things up. In SF3, your super art really affected your playstyle to a great deal (affecting meter length/stock, besides the obvious set up differences). They could build on that later on for V. I wouldn't be surprised if eventually the critical art is tied to the V-skill specifically. Could introduce some more strategy.
If they do multiple critical arts I think they should add a chain shift mechanic which converts your v-meter into your super meter. I doubt they will add more CAs though because having a V-trigger makes it redundant anyways. In 3rd strike characters had 3 super arts all with different niches and roles; from your beatdown confirm from a low super arts to your buff state super arts. Vtrigger is already that buff state super art for the entire cast. Going by the way they designed super arts in 3rd strike they can possibly give you the option of have a powerful CA that takes more meter to fill or a weaker CA that takes less which seems kinda lame to me.
 
If they do multiple critical arts I think they should add a chain shift mechanic which converts your v-meter into your super meter. I doubt they will add more CAs though because having a V-trigger makes it redundant anyways. In 3rd strike characters had 3 super arts all with different niches and roles; from your beatdown confirm from a low super arts to your buff state super arts. Vtrigger is already that buff state super art for the entire cast. Going by the way they designed super arts in 3rd strike they can possibly give you the option of have a powerful CA that takes more meter to fill or a weaker CA that takes less which seems kinda lame to me.

Then you could add Vtrig + Super utility. I'm thinking stuff like Oro, where he had two different versions of all of his supers. Imagine he only has one, and having full Vtrig + Super unlocks the more powerful, but spread the utility across the entire cast.
 
Nah son
K

3QU9Qdg.gif


" Oh this character he seems like the type of character you would like "

yes, yes he is literally human shadow the hedgehog. And I unapologetically like him for that reason.

Yup. The fact that he completely owned his "edgy and cool asshole character who didn't give a fuck" persona was what made him great.
 
If they do multiple critical arts I think they should add a chain shift mechanic which converts your v-meter into your super meter. I doubt they will add more CAs though because having a V-trigger makes it redundant anyways. In 3rd strike characters had 3 super arts all with different niches and roles; from your beatdown confirm from a low super arts to your buff state super arts. Vtrigger is already that buff state super art for the entire cast. Going by the way they designed super arts in 3rd strike they can possibly give you the option of have a powerful CA that takes more meter to fill or a weaker CA that takes less which seems kinda lame to me.

no thanks, that sounds terrible. keep the two meters separate so the risk reward of using EX vs saving for CA isn't influenced by building V Meter via getting hit. hated Revenge in SF4, and i want to leave that in the past.

i also see Capcom doing multiple CAs down the road, for sure. not sure if i want it, but i am expecting it.
 
『Inaba Resident』;179542013 said:
If Sean comes back, they should go all out basketball.
Like a hoop pops out of nowhere and he dunks on people.
shit would be hype.
Nah. The basketball is just one aspect of his personality. The fact that he's a unorthodox shoto is a bigger part of his identity.
 
no thanks, that sounds terrible. keep the two meters separate so the risk reward of using EX vs saving for CA isn't influenced by building V Meter via getting hit. hated Revenge in SF4, and i want to leave that in the past.

i also see Capcom doing multiple CAs down the road, for sure. not sure if i want it, but i am expecting it.

I know it'll happen, so it's meh, but the end result is just going to be everybody using the one super.

If they do it (when they do), they need to really make all of them viable and not have one that is obviously the clear choice to use.
 
If they do multiple critical arts I think they should add a chain shift mechanic which converts your v-meter into your super meter. I doubt they will add more CAs though because having a V-trigger makes it redundant anyways. In 3rd strike characters had 3 super arts all with different niches and roles; from your beatdown confirm from a low super arts to your buff state super arts. Vtrigger is already that buff state super art for the entire cast. Going by the way they designed super arts in 3rd strike they can possibly give you the option of have a powerful CA that takes more meter to fill or a weaker CA that takes less which seems kinda lame to me.

Not for Rachid, R. Mika, Nash, and Vega.

There's no way they don't add more supers though. They don't have to adjust the bar lengths either. They did the same thing with SF4 with ultras.
 
no thanks, that sounds terrible. keep the two meters separate so the risk reward of using EX vs saving for CA isn't influenced by building V Meter via getting hit. hated Revenge in SF4, and i want to leave that in the past.

i also see Capcom doing multiple CAs down the road, for sure. not sure if i want it, but i am expecting it.

I like to think that something like that would not only add an additional layer of strategy but also playstyle variance between players of the same characters but it probably doesn't work balance wise because of the way V-meter is gained (you take damage and potentially gain more CA meter than the person doing the damage.)

Multiple CAs is made redundant by V-trigger. If CAs are going to be this damaging confirm you blow meter on and V-Trigger is gonna be your buff state then what can characters second CAs be?
 
I know it'll happen, so it's meh, but the end result is just going to be everybody using the one super.

If they do it (when they do), they need to really make all of them viable and not have one that is obviously the clear choice to use.

Not for Rachid, R. Mika, Nash, and Vega.

There's no way they don't add more supers though. They don't have to adjust the bar lengths either. They did the same thing with SF4 with ultras.

yep. everyone will likely have just the one viable CA, with a few characters having uses for more than 1.

ideally they'll go 3S route vs the Double Combo thing in Ultra and make people stick to 1 CA for the match.

I like to think that something like that would not only add an additional layer of strategy but also playstyle variance between players of the same characters but it probably doesn't work balance wise because of the way V-meter is gained (you take damage and potentially gain more CA meter than the person doing the damage.)

Multiple CAs is made redundant by V-trigger. If CAs are going to be this damaging confirm you blow meter on and V-Trigger is gonna be your buff state then what can characters second CAs be?

the game's not even out yet and multiple characters have proven this wrong
 
Not for Rachid, R. Mika, Nash, and Vega.

There's no way they don't add more supers though. They don't have to adjust the bar lengths either. They did the same thing with SF4 with ultras.

Like a revenge meter that gives them access to another independent Super? I dunno about that. The damage is pretty high already. If you talking multiple supers options like 3S then I agree with you.
 
Not for Rachid, R. Mika, Nash, and Vega.

There's no way they don't add more supers though. They don't have to adjust the bar lengths either. They did the same thing with SF4 with ultras.
I don't agree and I see those V-Trigfers as buff states maybe not in the Geneijin/FSE sense but in a Aegis Reflector sense.
 
Then you could add Vtrig + Super utility. I'm thinking stuff like Oro, where he had two different versions of all of his supers. Imagine he only has one, and having full Vtrig + Super unlocks the more powerful, but spread the utility across the entire cast.

They already have this with Ryu and Necalli getting slightly different CAs with V-Trigger active. I kind of wish they did the same with Ken as his moves gaining a fire effect is less impressive when a bunch of his moves are already covered in flames, like his CA.

As I said before, second CAs are tricky because the CAs in this game so far combine the easy to combo Super Arts from III along with the highly damaging Super Arts. Here's a list of what roles Supers fill in the various games.

1. High damage but hard to combo into (CAs do a ton of damage)
2. High damage throw.
3. Low damage, easy to combo into (CAs mostly easy to combo into)
4. Power-Up (covered by V-Trigger mostly).
5. Counter super (garbage(
6. Anti-Air (kind of weak when everything does huge damage so having meter doesn't stop jumping like it does in SF4 with an anti-air Ultra).
7. Weirdo supers like Rose's U2 or Oro's satellites.

Current CAs have a mix of these roles so their damage would need to be nerfed for a high damage, hard to combo into CA to be viable for example.
 
What you mean by that?
Sean is a character I want back , but I have no idea what I want for him. And can't in honest suggest why he would be a good pick besides it would be cool to have a Brazilian of African ethnic origin in street fighter.
Like what do you do , do you make him more shoto, younger, older, do you completely change him, more MMA. I can't tell you , he's a character I like in concept but I can't actually defend really. I just think he's cool, but it doesn't really go beyond that.

Yup. The fact that he completely owned his "edgy and cool asshole character who didn't give a fuck" persona was what made him great.

Dude has a super where he just dissaporves of you .
 
I was pretty much called crazy/stupid and basically stomped into the ground a couple of days ago for mentioning that Ono was going to be in Brazil and NYCC in the same week to reveal 2 characters.
 
what if they do V Trigger selection instead?

imagine Ryu with an optional Evil Ryu install, lol

I like the way you think, but it won't happen, lol. I think the 2nd CA would come with a new V-skill.

So Chun's V-Skill currently is the weakest, but her CA is pretty damn good and goes through projectiles virtually regardless of timing (also can get full damage off airborne opponent). They could give her a 2nd CA that requires setups to land or that she can't combo into, but she gets a different V-Skill that's more useful.

Of course that's more stuff for Capcom to balance, but we live in an age where balance patches are done digitally.
 
I like the way you think, but it won't happen, lol. I think the 2nd CA would come with a new V-skill.

So Chun's V-Skill currently is the weakest, but her CA is pretty damn good and goes through projectiles virtually regardless of timing (also can get full damage off airborne opponent). They could give her a 2nd CA that requires setups to land or that she can't combo into, but she gets a different V-Skill that's more useful.

Of course that's more stuff for Capcom to balance, but we live in an age where balance patches are done digitally.

They should just improve on her vskill instead. I can see them doing multiple CA's down the road but having different vskill/trigger is not good imo.
 
It really doesn't even make sense as Ryu seems to be over the whole dark hadou stuff at this point in the story (i kno lol story)

yeah, all the more reason to not make it a v-trigger.

I'd love to see some What If? style alts, though, at least. satsui no guile (okay, maybe that's a bit too dumb, but fun stuff like that would be hype). outfit swaps were really awesome in SFxT. it'd be cool to see it happen again within the SF cast/Capcom IPs.
 
Sean is a character I want back , but I have no idea what I want for him. And can't in honest suggest why he would be a good pick besides it would be cool to have a Brazilian of African ethnic origin in street fighter.
Like what do you do , do you make him more shoto, younger, older, do you completely change him, more MMA. I can't tell you , he's a character I like in concept but I can't actually defend really. I just think he's cool, but it doesn't really go beyond that.

Visually I know what I want from Sean and that's a dude who mixes street fighting with shotokan karate. Mechanically I'm not sure what that means yet but I'll leave that up to Capcom to figure out.
 
It really doesn't even make sense as Ryu seems to be over the whole dark hadou stuff at this point in the story (i kno lol story)

I don't think he is. We have numerous win quotes with people mentioning the Satsui no Hadou. By 3s, he's overcome it and Akuma doesn't want to fight him anymore. I think this game, if everybody has a personal story, will be about Ryu literally beating his inner demon.
 
I suspect Capcom aren't fans of Sean because of his hybrid Shoto/MMA moveset. Visually he doesn't stand out among the many Shotos and we've seen them give his moves to both Abel and Marduk in subsequent games, both of whom are dedicated grapplers. It's just easier to make a new character than to try to fix him.
 
I don't think he is. We have numerous win quotes with people mentioning the Satsui no Hadou. By 3s, he's overcome it and Akuma doesn't want to fight him anymore. I think this game, if everybody has a personal story, will be about Ryu literally beating his inner demon.

this sounds like a funny euphemism
 
I suspect Capcom aren't fans of Sean because of his hybrid Shoto/MMA moveset. Visually he doesn't stand out among the many Shotos and we've seen them give his moves to both Abel and Marduk in subsequent games, both of whom are dedicated grapplers. It's just easier to make a new character than to try to fix him.
That would suck as a fan of the character. Abel literally has two of Sean's moves so fuck that character forever of this is the case. But since V-trigger and V-skill exists I think Capcom can come up with some unique mechanics to base Sean's gameplay around.
 
Sean would fit in well in this game. You don't need to change his character or the way he looks. Sean is fine the way he is. He'd work in this game.
 
I'd say Sean could have a chance being in this game but way down the line. Not only there a myriad of II/Alpha/IV characters that have priority over him, but even within III, he is behind a lot of characters as well.

Even the III characters that made it into IV like Ibuki, Dudely and Makoto have a better chance of showing up before him imo.
 
That would suck as a fan of the character. Abel literally has two of Sean's moves so fuck that character forever of this is the case. But since V-trigger and V-skill exists I think Capcom can come up with some unique mechanics to base Sean's gameplay around.
Something I heard recently (I think it was on Face/Off) was that in successful character design, your character's appearance, clothing, etc- it needs to communicate to the audience who they are, what they do, etc. Since a new viewer/player has no familiarity with them, you need to do as much nonverbally as possible. On that metric, Sean's visual design is a complete and total disaster.
 
Sean would fit in well in this game. You don't need to change his character or the way he looks. Sean is fine the way he is. He'd work in this game.

Considering what's been done to Ken I don't think Sean will be left unchanged if he ever comes to this game.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom