It takes a bit to gestate, I doubt it's immediately infectious.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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It takes a bit to gestate, I doubt it's immediately infectious.
matrix-cat
Member
Oh wow, I got that completely wrong. I could have sworn that was the scene with 'A rival living a lie' written over it in the Sins of the Father trailer, but apparently I'm just a moron
MGO trailer, but it's still shitty that the guy doesn't have a moment with his revolvers like that.
It sucks that Ocelot's characterization is plain and bad overall also, completely underutilized in the story too.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
He spins them a little before he lets Quiet shoot the helicopter blades.
A shame that that's the most he does, but it's there.
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
Oh wow, I got that completely wrong. I could have sworn that was the scene with 'A rival living a lie' written over it in the Sins of the Father trailer, but apparently I'm just a moron
That scene was when Ocelot starts Snake up on the horse at the start of Afghanistan.
Graphics Horse
Member
They have to copulate and lay eggs first.
That was Quiet's moment tho.
As I said before, I feel the real Ocelot we knew from all the other games would definitely try to up-stage Quiet with a trick or something after Quiet showed off like that lol
Not even a snide "pretty good" comment either
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
ahh so youre not immediately contagious. Okay, that kinda fits with what i know about the unradiated version of the parasite. But, just to make certain i got this, she's totally gonna die shortly after this no? And her leaving is so as to not actually infect anyone?
Kinda sucks to not have her as a buddy anymore. takes my desire to do post ending missions away. Surely someone could've concocted a field ready hazmat suit and thrown some beta nanomachines into the thing to keep her alive till i'm done with the game lol
At least True Big Boss says 'You're pretty good' in the Hospital. That made my day in The Truth once we know it's really him. He said it and I was like 'unnnh'.
I actually liked how underplayed most of the characters were. They don't need to prove themselves at this stage. They don't need to one-up each other or force showmanship. It's all functional/political actions. They're seasoned legends and soldiers.
So good.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
Here's the thing: knowing what we know now about how that Paz thread ends, you could miss the whole thing and it would have zero impact on anything.
The whole side story is OH SHIT PAZ IS ALIVE SHE SURVIVED WHAT A RETCON NOOOOO WAIIIITTTT ITS NOT A RETCON VENOM IS JUST CRAZY EVERYTHING STANDS AS IS
so if you missed it nothing regarding Paz's story changes at all
i got so sad with the Quiet storyline.
i'm not touching the game again after losing her (i did the 150 sideop after the 46 mission so it was the last bit of story for me).
I really feel some phantom pain.
All in all, great game. Kojima did not fool me this time ( i saw through the false big boss twist way before the end).
Still a bit concerned about the cut content... but thats the way it is so...
i'm not touching the game again after losing her (i did the 150 sideop after the 46 mission so it was the last bit of story for me).
I really feel some phantom pain.
All in all, great game. Kojima did not fool me this time ( i saw through the false big boss twist way before the end).
Still a bit concerned about the cut content... but thats the way it is so...
KOMANI
KOMANI
Yeah... But it still provides you with the most emotional tape of the game. No one bring up the Stragelove tape to me, I found it boring, unconvincing, and too long.
Underplayed? You mean how uncharacteristic and boring the characters are in this game for no reason compared to the other MGS titles?
It's nothing about proving themselves to us, the player, but to have the characters being consistent and having them actually be engaging and exciting like Ocelot usually is. He's basically just a boring, tutorial narrator and a Wikipedia expert in this game. New players get a completely different image of him if this is their first incarnation of Ocelot they see.
Even a good friend of mine who's not a MGS fan (only tested them a bit and seen me play some), commented on how weird and stiff he is compared how he was in MGS2 and MGS3.
Maybe im overthinking this - i see how ocelot is monica and kaz is ross to big boss (rachel).
Why are d rank soldiers chandler? Shouldnt skull face be chandler and d dog be joey?
DannyDanger
Member
Daaaaaaaaaaamn mission 45 was bonkerssssssssss
I totally worked it out off my own back. No outside input required.
> explored Mother Base.
> found a cool door with Paz in there, mind blown
> noticed that we could give her a photo
> later, did a Wandering MB Soldier mission, got a photo for it
> put 2 and 2 together
> did more, getting their pics
> ??????
> ... profit?
Codetalker should be Chandler. Codetalker loves Wolbachia, Chandler loves cocaine.
Punished_Snake
Member
Yes, I'm just like you. Do you know what made me love the experience other than the amazing gameplay? I really felt the phantom pain in the end. It's really sad this is the last MGS game from kojima, MGS games are the only games that made me feel the pain, excitement, confusion, and wanting more.
Yup, it's as disjointed as the rest of the game really. Luckily that entire Paz thing was still pretty nice, probably the most interesting story arc in the game.
If by underplayed, you mean one note and boring then sure. It's not about proving anything, just how ridiculous it is that some hardly have any character at all.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
I haven't finished the tapes so I can't speak one way or another about them. I'm halfway through the Truth tapes and still need to hear the hamburger and Paz tapes.
but even if there's some payoff for those missions, the point stands that missing the Paz stuff is inconsequential to the entire game and series.
Now that i've finished the game, it makes a lot more sense why Snake lost his ability to understand Russian. more than "you have a thing in you skull that blocked out a whole language" does at least.
I suppose I'm thinking of him in line with MGS3 Ocelot, where yes, he might develop into a more tempered, reasoned, 'normal' individual.
And arguably by MGS1 he has started self-hypnosis and is really deep in a villainous masquerade – so in The Phantom Pain, he is totally in the mid-point where he would be a more 'normal dude'.
I can't deny he verges strongly into bland and vanilla, though. Seems like Kojima, for whatever reason, decided to do a 'Good cop/Bad cop' scenario with him and Kaz, and went way too hard with it.
Such a weird game. I would never call any of them boring, though. Arguably, here, we're seeing them as they are in their average, every-day working context. It's not their first mission (Ocelot in MGS3). It's not the start of their giant 'I am a bad guy' ruse (Ocelot in MGS1). This is just them doing their average intel work in a PMC (Ocelot in MGSV). Still totally empathise that it doesn't ring quite true, though.
The 'proving something' comment wasn't pejorative. I literally meant "What are the character's motives?" As I say above, in MGS3, Ocelot is trying to prove his worth to Snake. (In MGSV he even says he was once like that but moved past it.) In MGS1 he's trying to act the villain to fool the Patriots. In MGSV he doesn't need to act any overt way. He's just being a general dude, working away.
Convincing himself to be the most boring character in the game is one of his greatest tricks
Maybe that wasn't Ocelot. Maybe it was the former MB Librarian with plastic surgery hypnotized to believe he is Ocelot by the real Ocelot. Except he did it poorly.
Said seasoned legends and badasses act like completely different people later on.
Ocelot acts like Wild Bill Hicock
Liquid's Miller is cheerful and talkative and given how it fooled Snake, we can assume that's how he currently is.
So....the more seasoned you get, the more overplayed you get?
So bad.
I addressed this directly re Ocelot. He acts like Wild Bill Hickok because he's playing up the 'villainous' role. He needs to come across as an insane villain once he starts playing the character he wants the Patriots to see. Before this, though? Before MGS1's events? In the 80s? A seasoned intel operative just working away.
Presumably Kaz is more chilled out in later years. Like Big Boss when we see him in MGS4. He is pure raging in TPP because of the shit done to him and MB. MGS1 is, what, 20 years later? He's retired and chilling.
I'm mainly just playing devil's advocate here. Of course I can't deny it's all so un-MGS and flawed in many ways.
Ocelot's pretty flat in this game, but I think it makes sense for where his personality would be at this point in life. He's had his MGS3 cockiness beaten out of him by two decades of life experience, and it's only after Big Boss's plan goes up in smoke fifteen years later that he realizes he's going to have to save the world himself and starts getting all theatrical to obfuscate his real intentions.
GreyOcelot
Member
it's obvious that kojima's creativity wouldn't allow him to be beholden to the games that were in the future of the timeline. he basically ignored small character details and things like miller's demeanor for the sake of making them more interesting. the same can be said for ocelot in mgs3 being a guy who meows like a cat.
that's what makes ocelot so annoying in this game. at least with miller he's an interesting character, hamming it up. ocelot is just there, just a normal dude advising you
BjornTheBear
Banned
Can anyone draw a simple ocelot loyalty timeline for me, because I'm so fucking confused right now...
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
They turned Ocelot into Morgan Freeman essentially. The only aspect of a character that we get from him is that he enjoys torturing people despite being the good cop compared to Kaz. Otherwise he just spouts exposition and player tips.
Dick Justice
Banned
It's pretty simple, he does all his stupid quintuple-agent bullshit because he wants Big Boss' Big D. Though I doubt Kojima had that in mind before MGS3.
MGS3 - Volgin/KGB or GRU?, CIA, Ocelot.
MGSV - Big Boss, Venom Boss, Cipher, hypnosis, Wikipedia, Ocelot.
MGS1 - Liquid Snake, Mr. President/Solidus, Ocelot.
MGS2 - Solidus, The Patriots, Ocelot, Liquid Snake (possession).
MGS4 - Fuck knows.
This is basically what I am saying. Ocelot's whole-life arc:
MGS3 > he's "not on your side" > a talented intel operative on his first job, trying hard to prove himself and be idiosyncratic, gets shunted and beaten by Big Boss, and presumably leaves licking his wounds, ashamed.
MGSV > he's on your side > an experienced and talented intel operative who doesn't need to prove himself and is instead being as helpful as possible trying to advise VB on the best actions possible
MGS1-4> he's "not on your side" > after becoming possibly the greatest spy of all time, he hypnotises himself to become a big villain, so that he can enable Solid Snake to fight back against the Patriots.
That last plot point is obviously the most ridiculous one and I'm fucking glad there's none of that in MGSV.
BjornTheBear
Banned
Shit. I give up trying to understand this damn franchise.
I think my post right above might help a little.
Makes it much easier if you lump MGS1-4 into one category...
He says in MGSV that he's started using self-hypnosis on himself as a new technique, and that he plans to use it in the future.
And the whole ruse that he's a "villain" at all is one big spy act, no doubt employing self-hypnosis (confirmed using it from MGS2 with the whole Liquid Arm thing).
Just ridiculous. I actually like the 'normal guy' he is in MGSV over that shit.
Yeah I don't like that either.
KOMANI
KOMANI
He enjoys torturing, and yet he yells at Miller to stop torturing Quiet... Or Huey. All the characters are inconsistent of who they were and contradict themselves one line after the other.
Miller and Zero were A Ok in my book. I got no beef with Kiefer...and yet when says ," Freeze", "get down", or grunts from pain, I can't shake Hayter's voice out my head.
BjornTheBear
Banned
How did he join up with Eli in MGS?
Why was he trying to kill Solid?
WHAT THE FUCK WAS HE DOING IN MGS4 AFTER ALL?!?! Fulfilling BB dream? But the world wasnt united with the Patriots in command?
I know im dumb, but this is simply too much. And thats just Ocelot.
Oh this was posted on r/neverbegameover, just one of many interesting coincidences surrounding this game.
You're not dumb, his entire story is full of contradictions and twists. I don't think even Kojima knows what's up with Ocelot.
You're not dumb, his entire story is full of contradictions and twists. I don't think even Kojima knows what's up with Ocelot.
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