• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO

Status
Not open for further replies.
knerl said:
Say what you want about his voice as such, but Kiefer's voice acting is much better than Hayter's. Except for maybe in MGS 1 and 2. MGSV easily has the best voice acting going on since then. They all sound very credible in part V. Booted up MGS3 a few hours ago and damn the voice acting is horrible. Only person performing well in that is the woman playing Boss.
Click to expand...

*facepalm* Yes the performances in this were so good that the fanbase largely thinks this has the worst plot while MGS3 is widely considered to have one of the best in the series. That has nothing to do with the performances at all.
 
Punished_Snake said:
As you progress in the game, you will have more options and this will make the game open up and most certainly make it easier, so this isn't a fault in the game, all games should make you feel you made a progress in your skills and the way you think to finish an objective. MGS V expect some intelligent from the players. I don't use hand of jehuty or the water gun so how you play the game is obviously different than how I play it.
Click to expand...
I never felt like I was really progressing in skill though (outside of stealth/subsistence missions). The game is frankly easy from the get-go, and only gets easier. I felt like I was being handed more and more overpowered equipment, leaving my woefully unprepared enemies in the dust.
 
Markitron said:
Ah right, thanks. So is one BB a bad guy and the other not? Can't remember the specifics of MG1 &2. Also did I miss a tape that states that it was Psycho Mantis?
Click to expand...
ultimately both big bosses are bad guys. big boss had been using child soldiers and amassing nuclear death robots since peace walker. venom snake, when you think about it, is still a war monger. i know diamond dogs is presented in a very positive fashion, but at the end of the day they're still a private militia that thrive on the business of conflict. they're all still just a bunch of killers.

it isn't explicitly stated that he's mantis but, come on. if you know the series, you know that's mantis.
 
All this surface level narrative conjecture....

Has anyone read Moby dick recently? Cuz I'd like an analysis of what kojima was trying to do with the narrative from somebody more smarter than I is.
 
Welp been about two weeks and still pretty pissed about the game. Still haven't developed everything and don't think I ever will since the countdown timers are starting to get ridiculous. May pick up on Steam when it's cheap as I'm sure there are mods and hacks to address this kind of bullshit game design.

FOB is moderately entertaining when it works. I imagine MGO3 will also be moderately entertaining when it works, for the two months Konami will probably keep the servers up anyway.

And then there's the story. Stupid. Not even good MGS stupid.
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
I never felt like I was really progressing in skill though (outside of stealth/subsistence missions). The game is frankly easy from the get-go, and only gets easier. I felt like I was being handed more and more overpowered equipment, leaving my woefully unprepared enemies in the dust.
Click to expand...

So you are saying the game is easy or doesn't offer freedom? I don't understand.
 
Sciz said:
I thought the same way until I saw a friend tear through a few missions with a grenade launcher and come out with an S. The speed you gain on a well executed loud approach seems to make up for the loss of the stealth bonuses.
Click to expand...

Yeah, once I flubbed a mission and just rolled with it and realized "wow, I did horrible...wait an S?" I realized how poor the scoring system really is.

Side Ops were a good place to just let loose and call in stuff that otherwise hit your ranking, but the actual structure in scoring is super weird and something I'm not a fan of at all.
 
Chakra_Khan said:
All this surface level narrative conjecture....

Has anyone read Moby dick recently? Cuz I'd like an analysis of what kojima was trying to do with the narrative from somebody more smarter than I is.
Click to expand...

Ishmael stream of consciousness writing device = player's own experience separate from Ahab even though Ahab is the protagonist.
 
Spaghetti said:
ultimately both big bosses are bad guys. big boss had been using child soldiers and amassing nuclear death robots since peace walker. venom snake, when you think about it, is still a war monger. i know diamond dogs is presented in a very positive fashion, but at the end of the day they're still a private militia that thrive on the business of conflict. they're all still just a bunch of killers.

it isn't explicitly stated that he's mantis but, come on. if you know the series, you know that's mantis.
Click to expand...

SoundPulse said:
Venom certainly comes off as the lesser of the two evils, but they're both "bad guys".
Click to expand...

Right, thanks. I need to watch that episode 51 video on YT
 
potatohead said:
Only thing I would add I think is that Solid Snake was sent in as intended to fail. I think Big Boss intended him to fail.
Click to expand...

If that's the case then it doesn't make sense that Venom's under the impression that Snake's mission was to create a fake report. If that's really Snake's mission, then Venom doesn't want to get in his way too much, because capturing or killing yet another operative is just going to get an even more severe response dropped on his head.

If Big Boss really wants Snake dead, then he tells Venom that he's sending a guy in to destroy Metal Gear and feel free to have Arnold choke him out or drop him in a bottomless pit or whatever.
 
Punished_Snake said:
As you progress in the game, you will have more options and this will make the game open up and most certainly make it easier, so this isn't a fault in the game, all games should make you feel you made a progress in your skills and the way you think to finish an objective. MGS V expect some intelligent from the players. I don't use hand of jehuty or the water gun so how you play the game is obviously different than how I play it.
Click to expand...

I basically found my "kit" early on and realized there were basically only 4 missions I couldn't finish with it, the sahalanthropus mission, a quiet exist and the fights with the skulls.

Those were the only missions where I felt I had to make a custom load out for.

My standard kit going through the game was just
Sneaking suit + silence AR + brennan + tranq pistol + rocket punch and then I carry C4. I'm sure it's not even that creative of a load out and I feel most people are probably using something similar to it.

My standard kit when S ranking stuff was
Sneaking suit + tranq sniper + honestly just a modded 1 star SVG rifle because it was barely getting used + lethal pistol with infinite suppressor + exploding rocket punch + c4 + phantom cigar.

Honestly I really wish you could unquip everything because I loved the subsistence missions since they were soooo engaging, you had to actually scout out enemies figure out what kind of equipment they were carrying, and how you were going to make use of it to finish your objective.

I really wish I could play through more missions in subsistence mode.
 
MGS1-MGS3 Ocelot is perfectly coherent. He's a spy who basically became one of the Patriots most trusted agents for retrieving the Legacy and basically helping resuscitate the american Philosphers and turn them into the Patriots. The twist is that even if believed himself to be the master manipulator, in the end The Patriots fooled him not revealing the true extent of the S3 Plan and not revealing their true location. His personality is consistent in all the three games, there's no reason to believe he is faking it since everytime he's "playing" different people.

MGS4 and Portable Ops turned him in Big Boss fangirl number 1 and muddied his role in the Patriots. He's one of the founders, but he rebelled against them with Eva and Big Boss, killed Donald Anderson...but now he's their trusted agents in the Shadow Moses, Tanker and Big Shell incident??? These IAs seem to be pretty stupid...and this all discounting the Liquid stuff.

I don't even know how Phantom Pain fits in all this. So know he's not at war with Zero anymore, they were sort of buddies and he asked him to watch over Big Boss. He does some hipnotherapy because why not, loses all his personality in the process, becomes i-droid man. He seem to be a pretty high ranking member of a mercenary group that will go on and become Outer Heaven, the first major threat to the Patriots, but he goes back to FOXHOUND years later no questions asked. I guess when the IAs recruited him as a spy they didn't read on the curriculum rthe part that says "Founder of the Patriots, close friend of Big Boss, member of Diamond Dogs, son of the Boss, apparently at war with Zero for sometime but canon is not clear".

Oh and the final conversation "each one of us will back a son" does not make ANY sense. He never backed Liquid or Solidus lol (and if the conversation is in 1984 he should believe Liquid dead), he was playing them. "If you ever go back to Cipher I'll back the other son"....DUDE it was YOU that went back to Cipher to troll Big Boss sons while actually acting as an agent for the Patriots....while actually trying to bring back the Wild West????????
 
JerkShep said:
MGS1-MGS3 Ocelot is perfectly coherent. He's a spy who basically became one of the Patriots most trusted agents for retrieving the Legacy and basically helping resuscitate the american Philosphers and turn them into the Patriots. The twist is that even if believed himself to be the master manipulator, in the end The Patriots fooled him not revealing the true extent of the S3 Plan and not revealing their true location. His personality is consistent in all the three games, there's no reason to believe he is faking it since everytime he's "playing" different people.

MGS4 and Portable Ops turned him in Big Boss fangirl number 1 and muddied his role in the Patriots. He's one of the founders, but he rebelled against them with Eva and Big Boss, killed Donald Anderson...but now he's their trusted agents in the Shadow Moses, Tanker and Big Shell incident??? These IAs seem to be pretty stupid...and this all discounting the Liquid stuff.

I don't even know how Phantom Pain fits in all this. So know he's not at war with Zero anymore, they were sort of buddies and he asked him to watch over Big Boss. He does some hipnotherapy because why not, loses all his personality in the process, becomes i-droid man. He seem to be a pretty high ranking member of a mercenary group that will go on and become Outer Heaven, the first major threat to the Patriots, but he goes back to FOXHOUND years later no questions asked. I guess when the IAs recruited him as a spy they didn't read on the curriculum rthe part that says "Founder of the Patriots, close friend of Big Boss, member of Diamond Dogs, son of the Boss, apparently at war with Zero for sometime but canon is not clear".

Oh and the final conversation "each one of us will back a son" does not make ANY sense. He never backed Liquid or Solidus lol (and if the conversation is in 1984 he should believe Liquid dead), he was playing them. "If you ever go back to Cipher I'll back the other son"....DUDE it was YOU that went back to Cipher to troll Big Boss sons while actually acting as an agent for the Patriots....while actually trying to bring back the Wild West????????
Click to expand...

Ocelot was Big Boss' biggest fangirl since MGS3.
 
When doubting something in metal gear remember:

Hypnosis. If not,

Nanomachines. If all else fails,

Parasites. Wait, that won't work? When then

Magic.

Really, there's nothing that can't be explained away by some bullshit. At some point you have to accept that these stories are being made up as Kojima goes along and aren't consistent with one another and hope that they are at least entertainingly told.
 
lucablight said:
*facepalm* Yes the performances in this were so good that the fanbase largely thinks this has the worst plot while MGS3 is widely considered to have one of the best in the series. That has nothing to do with the performances at all.
Click to expand...

*Facepalm* Now you're talking about plot. We were talking about voice acting. They're not the same thing.
 
So I'm still trying to get everything to fit in my head regarding the overall MGS plot, but there's just one thing I can't seem to get over no matter how much I try. Everything post MGS3 (though mainly PW and V) take very active steps to cheapen MGS3. I think I can come to terms with what little MGSV did to screw it up (like the whole XOF backing up Snake, parasite nanomachines for the Cobras) since it's not TOO major and can be overlooked, but I'm starting to realize that PW is the game that really sours me on everything.

This might not be the place to ask, but has anyone here been able to reconcile the BS in PW? Why/how can we explain Snake getting amnesia and forgetting why the Boss defected? The entire game is him acting out of character and trying to figure out why the Boss did what she did, even though he should know full well the story due to Eva's MGS3 tape, and then it ends with him rejecting The Boss for some stupid reason which makes no sense given that his anger in the end of MGS3 (which is supposed to be the ultimate catalyst for his turn to "evil") was how The Boss was used. I need someone to help me come up with new headcanon to make sense of the mess PW caused to the narrative.
 
Freedom = $1.05 said:
When doubting something in metal gear remember:

Hypnosis. If not,

Nanomachines. If all else fails,

Parasites. Wait, that won't work? When then

Magic.

Really, there's nothing that can't be explained away by some bullshit. At some point you have to accept that these stories are being made up as Kojima goes along and aren't consistent with one another and hope that they are at least entertainingly told.
Click to expand...

Won't have to worry about this anymore, now though. I just hope that next time Kojima doesn't get himself tied up with whatever new IP he makes next. He's at his best when making new games - Snatcher, Policenauts, MGS (which was really a reboot of Metal Gear). The longer he worked on Metal Gear, the more his writing took a downhill turn overall.
 
orthodoxy1095 said:
I never felt like I was really progressing in skill though (outside of stealth/subsistence missions). The game is frankly easy from the get-go, and only gets easier. I felt like I was being handed more and more overpowered equipment, leaving my woefully unprepared enemies in the dust.
Click to expand...

This was what killed a lot of the joy in the gameplay for me after quite some time in the game. The enemies lack inherent skillsets which would make devising alternate tactics meaningful or worthwhile. As far back as MGS2, you had precision military sweeps performed in an area once the alarm bells went off. MGSV doesn't present you with any sense of challenge or threat like that.

I wrote a pretty long post on Medium about why it's okay to be disappointed or happy with MGSV, and I posed a question I felt was worth asking and hopefully will see analyzed by gamers who are willing to put some thought into decompressing the mess that is MGSV rather than blindly, venomously defended for the sake of protecting the game's status.

Is MGSV really the best stealth game ever made because it’s actually a good stealth game? Or is it simply heralded as so because it’s so forgiving of failure that it’s nearly impossible to back yourself into an unwinnable situation, creating an illusion that we’re more than happy to accept?
Click to expand...
 
Edzi said:
So I'm still trying to get everything to fit in my head regarding the overall MGS plot, but there's just one thing I can't seem to get over no matter how much I try. Everything post MGS3 (though mainly PW and V) take very active steps to cheapen MGS3. I think I can come to terms with what little MGSV did to screw it up (like the whole XOF backing up Snake, parasite nanomachines for the Cobras) since it's not TOO major and can be overlooked, but I'm starting to realize that PW is the game that really sours me on everything.

This might not be the place to ask, but has anyone here been able to reconcile the BS in PW? Why/how can we explain Snake getting amnesia and forgetting why the Boss defected? The entire game is him acting out of character and trying to figure out why the Boss did what she did, even though he should know full well the story due to Eva's MGS3 tape, and then it ends with him rejecting The Boss for some stupid reason which makes no sense given that his anger in the end of MGS3 (which is supposed to be the ultimate catalyst for his turn to "evil") was how The Boss was used. I need someone to help me come up with new headcanon to make sense of the mess PW caused to the narrative.
Click to expand...

Peace Walker doesn't mess up anything.

At the end of MGS3, Snake was informed by EVA of The Boss' real mission. He already knows she didn't defect. What Snake doesn't get is WHY The Boss would throw away her life for "loyalty to her country". That's what Snake doesn't understand. He cannot think the same way, he would NOT DO the same thing. So to him, it makes no sense.

Then The Boss disappoints him even further by "throwing down her gun", by refusing to start a war. By choosing to die in peace instead surrounded by the fires of conflict. Big Boss realizes that The Boss has given up on a soldier's life, which is basically all she taught him. That's why he decides (Even starting from Portable Ops) to not to live his life the way The Boss did. He is not going to throw down his gun. He will fight. He will live and die in a battlefield. That's all he knows. The Boss "betrayed" him.


I never liked the idea behind making an AI based on The Boss. I've always believed that was unnecessary. But what PW did about Big Boss and his idea of The Boss was just plain amazing.
 
Punished_Snake said:
As you progress in the game, you will have more options and this will make the game open up and most certainly make it easier, so this isn't a fault in the game, all games should make you feel you made a progress in your skills and the way you think to finish an objective. MGS V expect some intelligent from the players. I don't use hand of jehuty or the water gun so how you play the game is obviously different than how I play it.
Click to expand...
I think it's absolutely a flaw in the game's design. Allowing the player to equip the most effective weapon in each slot means that they're always able to go their preferred route, which naturally limits their options because few people would willingly limit their effectiveness.
MGSV's early game balance is sublime. It has a great rhythm. You need to recon each outpost to the best of your ability. You're constantly balancing between your ideal scenario and resorting to using noisy or lethal weapons whenever things go south.
Fast forward a few hours - every enemy is now automatically marked before you even arrive at the outpost, all of your guns are silenced and non-lethal. Now the only thing that requires skill is finding a way to allow things to get out of hand when you have all the resources you'd ever need.
 
Ishida said:
Peace Walker doesn't mess up anything.

At the end of MGS3, Snake was informed by EVA of The Boss' real mission. He already knows she didn't defect. What Snake doesn't get is WHY The Boss would throw away her life for "loyalty to her country". That's what Snake doesn't understand. He cannot think the same way, he would NOT DO the same thing. So to him, it makes no sense.

Then The Boss disappoints him even further by "throwing down her gun", by refusing to start a war. By choosing to die in peace instead surrounded by the fires of conflict. Big Boss realizes that The Boss has given up on a soldier's life, which is basically all she taught him. That's why he decides (Even starting from Portable Ops) to not to live his life the way The Boss did. He is not going to throw down his gun. He will fight. He will live and die in a battlefield. That's all he knows. The Boss "betrayed" him.


I never liked the idea behind making an AI based on The Boss. I've always believed that was unnecessary. But what PW did about Big Boss and his idea of The Boss was just plain amazing.
Click to expand...

I would have loved a moment of The Boss' AI calling Big Boss out on the shit he's done, perhaps even disowning him, in The Phantom Pain, with Big Boss being unwilling to accept that and destroying the AI. Just to complete the detachment of Big Boss from The Boss.
 
Freedom = $1.05 said:
When doubting something in metal gear remember:

Hypnosis. If not,

Nanomachines. If all else fails,

Parasites. Wait, that won't work? When then

Magic.

Really, there's nothing that can't be explained away by some bullshit. At some point you have to accept that these stories are being made up as Kojima goes along and aren't consistent with one another and hope that they are at least entertainingly told.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's just too bad MGSV's story is neither consistent or entertaining. It's not even finished.
 
Raynes said:
Portable Ops had a far better plot than whatever this was. Kojima sure tackled many taboos here. Like selling a demo then an incomplete game.
Click to expand...

Ohhh, sick burn. Seriously though, I agree Portable Ops had a better plot. It had a better plot than MGS4 and Peace Walker did, too. Well, not better, but more enjoyable and felt more like classic Metal Gear than those aforementioned games ever did. I'll miss those classic Metal Gear experiences.
 
Alienous said:
I would have loved a moment of The Boss' AI calling Big Boss out on the shit he's done, perhaps even disowning him, in The Phantom Pain, with Big Boss being unwilling to accept that and destroying the AI. Just to complete the detachment of Big Boss from The Boss.
Click to expand...
But would it have any meaning considering it isn't really Big Boss?
Like the Paz tape, which is so sad, is cheapen by the fact it's really directed at Big Boss... Not the Medic who has no emotional ties to her.
 
Alienous said:
I would have loved a moment of The Boss' AI calling Big Boss out on the shit he's done, perhaps even disowning him, in The Phantom Pain, with Big Boss being unwilling to accept that and destroying the AI. Just to complete the detachment of Big Boss from The Boss.
Click to expand...

Yeah when I saw the trailers and the mammal pod came out, I was like "oh shit they're bringing it back"

But all it ever did was tell us how much of a shitbag Huey is.

I should have never watched those trailers. They promised so much more than what we got.
 
bad said:
But would it have any meaning considering it isn't really Big Boss?
Like the Paz tape, which is so sad, is cheapen by the fact it's really directed at Big Boss... Not the Medic who has no emotional ties to her.
Click to expand...

That's what I think would make it interesting.

Big Boss could find a way to deny it, because of it being AI, but deep down there would be the implication that the Boss would view Snake the same way.

They basically bring back The Boss to have her sit on a rooftop being shat on by birds. It's ridiculous.
 
Alienous said:
That's what I think would make it interesting.

Big Boss could find a way to deny it, because of it being AI, but deep down there would be the implication that the Boss would view Snake the same way.

They basically bring back The Boss to have her sit on a rooftop being shat on by birds. It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
I'm having a hard time following... Probably because this names Big Boss and Snake are synonymous with multiple characters.
 
Alienous said:
I would have loved a moment of The Boss' AI calling Big Boss out on the shit he's done, perhaps even disowning him, in The Phantom Pain, with Big Boss being unwilling to accept that and destroying the AI. Just to complete the detachment of Big Boss from The Boss.
Click to expand...

That would've been amazing, too.

Foxtastical said:
Did MGSV finally make some people stop hating the shit outta Portable Ops?
Click to expand...

Perhaps. But I never hated it. I've always liked that game's plot.

I liked Portable Ops' story before it was cool.

I'm the ultimate Metal Gear hipster.
 
Salaadin said:
Seems that way. I think it's been mentioned more times in this thread than in the past 9 years.

In other news, Portable Ops came out almost 9 years ago. Fuck, I'm old.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I had the same thought going to work this morning. I remember Portable Ops coming out like it was yesterday.
 
ZOcEmI4.png

Top 5 most voted on the latest poll.. out of 807 votes. wooots!
 
bad said:
Ha! This thread is bitter sweet. Mgsv has not made me care the series is done/dead... But I will miss this thread.
Click to expand...

yea... the times i spent in the community thread, hype thread and all other mgs related threads... some of the best times.

MGS community is one of the best. and one of the craziest. and the one with all the drama.

lol. the community is like the mgs lore. all over the place, it contradicts itself at times, retcons, might appear shallow, but it has more layers of meaning that Shreks onions.

So good.
 
Heads up guys, I checked out my GameStop rewards program account today and I realized I had a few points on there from when I used to shop there quite often and they have a MGSV poster for 6,800 reward points; which I think is $68 spent there.

Looks pretty cool.
 
The Cartographer said:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/20/tech/gaming-gadgets/project-ogre/

''Kojima has called his upcoming game Project Ogre. In the interview, he described it as being set in a very open world where players can wander around and explore freely. Players should still be able to find new sights and worthwhile adventures after having played the game for as many as 100 hours, he said.''

...is there a single area worth exploring in The Phantom Pain?
Click to expand...

Not a single one.
 
The Cartographer said:
http://edition.cnn.com/2011/12/20/tech/gaming-gadgets/project-ogre/

''Kojima has called his upcoming game Project Ogre. In the interview, he described it as being set in a very open world where players can wander around and explore freely. Players should still be able to find new sights and worthwhile adventures after having played the game for as many as 100 hours, he said.''

...is there a single area worth exploring in The Phantom Pain?
Click to expand...

Hahahahaha... no.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Strafefox - The Making of Metal Gear Solid
0
226
winjer replied
Going straight from Metal Gear Solid 1 to Metal Gear Solid 2 is a crazy experience
Opinion Retro 
23
727
Sybrix replied
Metal Gear Solid Collection vol. 2 In development
2
78
1K
Badlucktroll replied
Metal Gear Solid Δ: Snake Eater now supports Xbox Play Anywhere
10
159
Darsxx82 replied
Metal Gear Solid Delta: Snake Eater | Review Thread
Opinion Analysis Review  2 3 4
152
4K
kindaGoth replied
Top Bottom