Support NeoGAF

[orthodoxy1095]

This is all bullshit to me. "Padding" is assassins Creed style run around and collect the treasure chests, mindless tasks that add nothing to the gameplay.

Bullshit yourself bud. When the second Chapter has Missions 33, 34, 36, 37, 39, 40, 42, 44, 47, 48, 49 and 50 as variants of the first chapters, the game is padded out (and again clearly unfinished). There is nothing wrong with giving players the option to replay older mission under those conditions (Subsistence in particular is great), but it should be something like a menu toggle. Not a numbered mission.

That's just Chapter 2 though. I mean, someone pointed out earlier in the thread that if you narrow the first chapter to actually plot-related stuff, you could get something like this:

01 - Phantom Limbs
06 - Where Do The Bees Sleep?
11 - Cloaked in Silence [BOSS FIGHT]
12 - Hellbound
13 - Pitch Dark [I'm trying to be nice here, but since it's the introduction to Africa and it relates to the epidemic later in the story I'm going to count it]
16 - Traitors Caravan [I guess the Skulls are there and the cargo is sort of important]
20 - Voices
23 - The White Mamba
28 - Code Talker
29 - Metallic Archae [BOSS FIGHT]
30 - Skull Face
31 - Sahelantropus [BOSS FIGHT]

Some of the other missions like #21 are actually pretty great. But the rest feel something akin to glorified sideops and serve as filler. Most of the main missions in Chapter 1 are actually, hilariously, something closer to the side ops we got in Ground Zeroes. And subsequently, most of the side ops in TPP are actually like randomly generated missions. They're actually generally worse in quality than GZ side ops. The game is hilariously padded out in that respect. 150 side ops? Why not cut down on that number dramatically and make the remaining ones more complex and interesting?

Oh yeah, because they needed filler.

Under an ever deeper analysis, Nibel's thoughts on the game were really quite well put about how the game actually invalidates itself into filler: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=179474849&postcount=10752

Why did I do all of this?

If you think even further, you'll realize that MGSV is completely filler and failed to present one of the most important moments in the entire franchise, and it's completely baffling to me. I wanted to learn about the story of the other guy in the ambulance. Was it planned as DLC? As new game? Or just what the fuck was this. Is this another one of those 'Player =/= Solid Snake' philosophies that Kojima wants to feed us? I don't know.

Hence the disappointment many feel.

The side ops and objectives encourage different ways to replay the missions. I am going to be playing this game for a long time. I know I can just open the game and run a few side ops or try to s rank a mission and put it away for the next year or so.

Glad you're enjoying it. That's your take on it though. Once I saw the list of side ops that remained after I got the ending, I saw a bunch of meaningless stuff to do that I had no interest in doing (since they lack any compelling reason to be completed) and got rid of the game.

I just think a lot of people want the game to be something it isn't and wasn't designed to be.

Yeah, people expected a story-heavy game from a series known as story-heavy and expected it to be satisfying. What a bunch of idiots.

This of course discounts all of us who didn't really play the game for the story and still walked away disappointed.

 

[Andvary]

Because sometimes you don't get people back. And it her exit wouldn't mean shit if she was still there for gameplay

It doesn't make sense. The story took a backseat for the sake of the gameplay on this game. I was on media blackout so I didn't know the emblem trick, I would have used it. It's stupid.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

what's a "cut content"??

not that, apparently

 

[Grinchy]

D.Horse should count as a vehicle, not a Buddy. Even with his tactical pooping, he's so much less useful than the other Buddies.

I think I'm like 80 hours into the game now and that horse is probably at like level 2.

what's a "cut content"??

The tape with Zero's hospital visit would have been a sweet cutscene.

 

[Hellwarden]

D.Horse should count as a vehicle, not a Buddy. Even with his tactical pooping, he's so much less useful than the other Buddies.

Granted, Venom can run pretty fast on his own, and there's no stamina as far as I know.

Looks dumb tho.

 

[matrix-cat]

Granted, Venom can run pretty fast on his own, and there's no stamina as far as I know.

Looks dumb tho.

I've actually wondered whether Venom with the speed upgrade is that much slower than D.Horse. At least you don't have to keep shouting "HYAH!" every four seconds to sprint.

 

[Valkyri von Thanatos]

what's a "cut content"??

Not this, it should be mentioned. This is a fan model, at least the face is a modification of Snake's facial mesh.

I think I'm like 80 hours into the game now and that horse is probably at like level 2.


The tape with Zero's hospital visit would have been a sweet cutscene.

Maybe Venom saw it and forgot? Fuck it they don't need stupid justification, after all why could we follow Skullface around in GZ. All the possibilities for Skullface to be BB's "phantom"... Not like body double, but spookily "under his skin" and actively haunting him beyond the pre Ch1 credits cameo or w/e that was.

Granted, Venom can run pretty fast on his own, and there's no stamina as far as I know.

Looks dumb tho.

But don't underestimate horse stealth. Guards will overlook very suspicious horses a lot.

 

[Opto]

It doesn't make sense. The story took a backseat for the sake of the gameplay on this game. I was on media blackout so I didn't know the emblem trick, I would have used it. It's stupid.

So one of the few good bits of story should be washed away so you don't feel loss?

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

Not this, it should be mentioned. This is a fan model, at least the face is a modification of Snake's facial mesh.



Maybe Venom saw it and forgot? Fuck it they don't need stupid justification, after all why could we follow Skullface around in GZ. All the possibilities for Skullface to be BB's "phantom"... Not like body double, but spookily "under his skin" and actively haunting him beyond the pre Ch1 credits cameo or w/e that was.



But don't underestimate horse stealth. Guards will overlook very suspicious horses a lot.

well that's that

 

[mgs2master2]

My bad are you trying to kill them for the task and or going for the s rank? If you just want a S rank just get a tank and drive it through the jungle and jump out once you get to the jungle. I would recommend doing the mission that way first for the S rank then to complete the task just use stealth camo and a suppressed sniper. They'll never see you.

Edit:

All methods involve a varying amount of cheese so sorry if you want a legit tactic

i must be a scrub because my lv 6 stealth doesnt work lol

 

[Andvary]

So one of the few good bits of story should be washed away so you don't feel loss?

As Miller said, he already took Big Boss away.

And why to allow the use of the emblem if quiet's story was so important then?

 

[PedroPanache]

That definitely had an impact too I believe. A big one.

I'm using the word "seduced" because "boot camp" events are not a typical norm that occurs for these reviewers. I don't know what really happened out there but I know that if I was in their shoes and had the opportunity to fly out to L.A all compensated to play one of the most crucial games of the year (almost like a free, paid off vacation), my good mood would get the better of me.
.

The boot camp seemed less a seduction and more a sensory overload akin to a scene from Clockwork Orange. Tasked with throttling through a game in 50 hours in the space of a week or however long it was, your thoughts don't have time to settle; nor is there room to digest the full scope of what is a dense and complex game. The reviews get written in a heady haze, flaws glossed over, and any sense of introspection is lost in the race to get the review up in time for the embargo.

How does such an experience serve to inform me, the consumer? It doesn't, not really, but it does serve another purpose, and that's to help perpetuate the hype machine. A machine that started with all those overblown trailers and Kojima's enigmatic comments about controversial game content. The fervour of the boot camp is the inevitable conclusion to an orchestrated campaign that benefits the publisher, not the consumer. Only now are we getting interesting and considered analysis of the game.

 

[myco666]

So one of the few good bits of story should be washed away so you don't feel loss?

Taking away gameplay options is stupid no matter what. I don't like D-Horse or D-Walker so now I am down to one buddy for my tactics and even if D-Dog is super useful and great he doesn't have same abilities as Quiet. Also I should be able to take Quiet with me to Main missions that happen before her leaving since those happen in the past.

If Quiet was avaible only in certain story missions as 'forced' buddy and not avaible for the general play I would be okay with her leaving. But how it is now is like the game would take away all your tranq weapons,silenced weapons or lethal weapons just because of story.

 

[matrix-cat]

I think Quiet's story is dumb. She's nothing but Kojima's wet dream on screen, and the idea that she and Big Boss don't share a common language because she only speaks English and Navajo, and can't just write or type or draw pictures or use Morse Code or play charades is just so stupid. That scene of Big Boss frolicking in the rain with her is so cringeworthy; I half expected a happy little bluebird to flutter down and sing a Disney duet with Kiefer.

On the other hand, she's hugely useful and enjoyable in gameplay, so having the fun part taken away so Kojima can finish off his shitty story with her is not something I'm interested in. I'm just glad I learnt about the Butterfly Emblem in time to stick that sucker on and keep it on for good.

 

[Chariot]

IThat scene of Big Boss frolicking in the rain with her is so cringeworthy; I half expected a happy little bluebird to flutter down and sing a Disney duet with Kiefer.

What kind of weird ass Disney movies are just watching?

 

[Death Metalist]

What kind of weird ass Disney movies are just watching?

The kinds only available on the internet. I wish I got that scene, atleast it would be another thing that was memorable in a crazy, dumb way. Probably up there with Johnny taking a shit in a barrel.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Quiet would have been an excellent character if she wasn't overly sexualized like she is. Deciding to bury one of the two characters to get any decent plot beneath that character design is a baffling decision. I'd have less issue if I could just outright like or dislike a character and not have such conflicting ideas about their different aspects.

Much like how the entire game comes off, actually. Super conflicted, totally opposite reactions to it at the same time.

 

[sappyday]

I think Quiet's story is dumb. She's nothing but Kojima's wet dream on screen, and the idea that she and Big Boss don't share a common language because she only speaks English and Navajo, and can't just write or type or draw pictures or use Morse Code or play charades is just so stupid. That scene of Big Boss frolicking in the rain with her is so cringeworthy; I half expected a happy little bluebird to flutter down and sing a Disney duet with Kiefer.

On the other hand, she's hugely useful and enjoyable in gameplay, so having the fun part taken away so Kojima can finish off his shitty story with her is not something I'm interested in. I'm just glad I learnt about the Butterfly Emblem in time to stick that sucker on and keep it on for good.

Worst character in the series for me. Didn't care for her gameplay wise either (DD for the win). I purposely didn't put the butterfly emblem on despite me knowing it would let her stay. Don't want her in my base. When I defeated her in her extreme boss fight I immediately shot her instead of recruiting her.

 

[SJRB]

Quiet is the only character in the entire game with at least some sort of character arc and actual character development.

It is beyond unfortunate that Kojima trainwrecked even that by insane [truly insane] cutscenes like the group shower and the first half of the rain cutscene. There is some good stuff hidden underneath, but holy shit does it take some willpower to look past the sexualization.

Kojima truly fucked up spectacularly with this game, didn't he...

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Quiet is the only character in the entire game with at least some sort of character arc and actual character development.

It is beyond unfortunate that Kojima trainwrecked even that by insane [truly insane] cutscenes like the group shower and the first half of the rain cutscene. There is some good stuff hidden underneath, but holy shit does it take some willpower to look past the sexualization.

Kojima truly fucked up spectacularly with this game, didn't he...

Huey, too.

And yeah, he kind of did. It's not like it's a complete trainwreck, or there's nothing good in there, but there's so much wrong with it.

When I defeated her in her extreme boss fight I immediately shot her instead of recruiting her.

 

[RSB]

Quiet is the only character in the entire game with at least some sort of character arc and actual character development.

It is beyond unfortunate that Kojima trainwrecked even that by insane [truly insane] cutscenes like the group shower and the first half of the rain cutscene. There is some good stuff hidden underneath, but holy shit does it take some willpower to look past the sexualization.

Kojima truly fucked up spectacularly with this game, didn't he...

Yeah, the sexualization in this game is a bit too much. Even those ugly sniper zombies were sexualized with those ridiculous camera angles.

At times it feels like Kojima is just one step away from going full Masamune Shirow. LOL.

 

[Plasma]

DD after Solid Snake kills Venom Snake at Outer Heaven.

 

[Forkball]

What if Uncharted 4 was delayed because you actually played as Phantom Drake, but they saw the reactions to MGS V and changed it?

Guess we'll never know.

 

[NinjamicWZ]

timestamped for the best part:

https://youtu.be/t5LB7CAtvrQ?t=1h8m58s

 

[Death Metalist]

What if Uncharted 4 was delayed because you actually played as Phantom Drake, but they saw the reactions to MGS V and changed it?

Guess we'll never know.

Only Kojima is crazy enough to have an AAA budget and do that kind of shit which is why I dug it.

 

[matrix-cat]

You have to wonder how some of those cutscenes were created. I picture Kojima standing over some poor CG animator's shoulder going "No, we open on her tits, and they jiggle three times... no, more jiggling... no, like DOA-style jiggling, just crank that shit up, yeah, there you go. Now she spins around and the camera goes right up her butt. Hey, did I stutter? Right up her butt. All the way in there. Yeah, that's it. That's it right there... Unngg, people are going to be so ashamed of their words and deeeeds..."

"Uh, does Big Boss say anything in this one, sir?"

"What? No, don't be silly."

 

[Death Metalist]

timestamped for the best part:

https://youtu.be/t5LB7CAtvrQ?t=1h8m58s

That was pretty great. Loved this comment.

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Such a lust for revenge
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!?!?!?

 

[matrix-cat]

They forgot "Buddy has infiltrated outp- The map has been updated"

 

[SolVanderlyn]

timestamped for the best part:

https://youtu.be/t5LB7CAtvrQ?t=1h8m58s

That comment, holy shit, lol

 

[omonimo]

Gameplay wise it's surely the best MGS. But chapter 2 jeez WTF they thought. Repeat the same missions again... if they haven't the time for more missions why not use what they have. Complete the side ops and split better the story between the side ops and the main missions available. I have started the chapter 2 yesterday and man what frustrating and boring thing. It's MGS 4 again. First half of the game exceptional and the second completely screwed. I have to blame Kojima here. 7 years and you aren't unable to complete a whole game. That's not normal.
Maybe konami fired him for this? Because MGS 4 appears unfinished too and rushed in the ending.

 

[A-V-B]

They forgot "Buddy has infiltrated outp- The map has been updated"

And then Troy Baker kicks in the door - "BOSS, GET DOWN! THAT'S THE ENEMY SNIPER!"

 

[bojie1986]

And then Troy Baker kicks in the door - "BOSS, GET DOWN! THAT'S THE ENEMY SNIPER!"

You destroyed their anti-air radar???

 

[Chariot]

And that all the while you tried to listen to Code Talker dramatic reading Wikipedia articles

 

[matrix-cat]

"Vocal chord paras-"

"He's coming too?"

"...mating pairs..."

"Fulton recovery subject confirmed on board helicopter"

"...the Wolbachia"

"ANALYSIS COMPLETE. ANALYSIS COMP-MARKER PLACED. ANALYSIS COMPLETE"

"...Archaea..."

"Boss, that's an enemy gunship!"

 

[J4g3r]

Listening to Code Talker's cassette tapes reminded me of this moment right here:

https://youtu.be/XWSNZe4tGiY?t=4m55s

 

[SiteSeer]

Yeah, DD is definitely the best buddy. I already knew that before Quiet left though.


I wish I had known about the butterfly emblem trick before she left. Media blackout backfire I guess, LOL.

i knew about quiet leaving but i didn't know when to put the emblem on to lock it down.

i mean i get the emotional payoff of 'a quiet exit'; it was very well done, kudos to kojima, but goddamnit, its still a game that i'm gonna put another 80 hours into to 100% it, and i want that support buddy fer fucksake.

 

[valkyre]

I know the game has a lot of design issues. And i agree with a lot of them.

The credits for every mission for example is just... i cannot even put it into words. Then came the "to be continued" and "coming soon in chapter 2" crap... I seriously dont know what kojima was thinking with this. It totally kills immersion and the flow of game. And there are a lot of other stuff as well, like MB being a complete wasted potential.

But as always, I disagree with a few "complaints" being thrown at as well. For instance I disagree that if you narrow it down, its only 15 or so missions that progress the story.

Whether we like it or not the mission structure for MGSV makes sense. In terms of the chronological events happening in the saga. When you start the game, your obvious main point is to start rebuilding your mother base. You cant go out looking for Cipher (actually you do in a sense but that is not your primary objective in the start) when you got shit to go up against him.

So it is natural and logical story-wise that Diamond Dogs get contracts that not every single one of them necessarily will move the plotline significantly.

The mission structure of MGSV perhaps creates the problem of people expecting a significant chunk of story with each mission. But if people try and break down previous MGS games in a similar "mission structure" , you will see that things are not that different than before.

Take MGS3 for example. What is your initial objective? Find Sokolov. And then you proceed for 30 mins to pass some guards and then reach the place where he is being kept. During all that time there is no real story progression. Its just levels where you have an objective and up until the next cutscene you just walk through it.

Yes MGSV has a lot of filler content (especially side ops and revisiting old main missions) but that is optional so you dont really need to do it to get the full experience.

I understand the need for more cutscenes and some more rewarding aftermath for every mission. But i think the structure of the game is such that even if it was a complete on rails linear game they would have to cut all that stuff.

 

[Ludens]

Why Quiet can't wrote what she knows?
Why she can't just tell Code Talker all she knows in navajo and so Code Talker can explain it to other MB dudes?
Why this game has so many plot holes?

 

[SiteSeer]

Why Quiet can't wrote what she knows?
Why she can't just tell Code Talker all she knows in navajo and so Code Talker can explain it to other MB dudes?
Why this game has so many plot holes?

just to make us suffer, apparently.

 

[Masaki_]

Why Quiet can't wrote what she knows?
Why she can't just tell Code Talker all she knows in navajo and so Code Talker can explain it to other MB dudes?
Why this game has so many plot holes?

She didn't want to. Right up until the end she was still considering infecting DD and killing everyone.

 

[semiconscious]

Don't you shake your head at me Diamond Joe, as I said in my video PW closes BB's character quite brilliantly. Once you just accept the non-sense of these AI Tank monstrosities existing what you get is a well told story with amazing moments and a real heart. Coldman was a far more effective villain than Skullface and his plan made perfect sense.

hell, i had an aunt who was a far more effective villain than skullface. skullface as a henchman of someone else? fine. skullface as the top baddie? worst main villain since the arkham knight version of scarecrow. they're both from the 'endless monologue / no action' school of awful villains...

 

[Drencrom]

Why Quiet can't wrote what she knows?
Why she can't just tell Code Talker all she knows in navajo and so Code Talker can explain it to other MB dudes?
Why this game has so many plot holes?

She didn't want to. Right up until the end she was still considering infecting DD and killing everyone.

Then why didn't Code Talker snitch that she got the English strain to Venom Boss and the others after he and Quiet talked?

You would think that Code Talker of any people would understand the grave danger of having a possible spy like her with those parasites could do to DD.

 

[Hellwarden]

There's a lot of problems with Skull Face.

The chief ones are his plan is both stupid and boring, something I never thought I would say about a MG villain.

He also can't seem to decide if he wants to kill Venom or talk to him.

He leaves you to be killed by his subordinates three times, regarding you as an afterthought.

And then towards the end he takes you on a jeep ride, and talks your face off.

And even then he doesn't make for a compelling character. Even after you listen to the tapes you're given after his death, he's still lame, good voice acting aside.

 

[Jintor]

that bell tape with code walker though. that chilling bastard.

 

[Henkka]

I think a villain who wants to wipe out the english language is a cool and interesting idea, but it was super unclear to me how cheap nukes, Sahelantropus and the Boss' will played into it.

Giving your villain multiple complex motivations just makes it confusing

 

[Forkball]

Then why didn't Code Talker snitch that she got the English strain to Venom Boss and the others after he and Quiet talked?

You would think that Code Talker of any people would understand the grave danger of having a possible spy like her with those parasites could do to DD.

THEY CAN NOT COPULATE
NOR LAY EGGS

 

[semiconscious]

Quiet is the only character in the entire game with at least some sort of character arc and actual character development.

It is beyond unfortunate that Kojima trainwrecked even that by insane [truly insane] cutscenes like the group shower and the first half of the rain cutscene. There is some good stuff hidden underneath, but holy shit does it take some willpower to look past the sexualization.

Kojima truly fucked up spectacularly with this game, didn't he...

actually, he made a great game, & it's a lot of fun to play. it's just all the metal gear / story parts that he fucked up ...

 

[Chariot]

"Vocal chord paras-"

"He's coming too?"

"...mating pairs..."

"Fulton recovery subject confirmed on board helicopter"

"...the Wolbachia"

"ANALYSIS COMPLETE. ANALYSIS COMP-MARKER PLACED. ANALYSIS COMPLETE"

"...Archaea..."

"Boss, that's an enemy gunship!"

Haha, yeah. That was my experience as I tried to listen to the tapes while doing some side-ops. Maybe that's the reason he keeps repeating himself.

that bell tape with code walker though. that chilling bastard.

That was very decent. But I still gotta laugh how Skullface was beaten by Code Talker, the guy who is too lazy to walk.

 

[Shift Breaker]

"Vocal chord paras-"

"He's coming too?"

"...mating pairs..."

"Fulton recovery subject confirmed on board helicopter"

"...the Wolbachia"

"ANALYSIS COMPLETE. ANALYSIS COMP-MARKER PLACED. ANALYSIS COMPLETE"

"...Archaea..."

"Boss, that's an enemy gunship!"

Alternatively, you could listen to it in the ACC, where you get such fun experiences as:

"...the Wolbachia..."

*WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*

*Turns up volume of TV*

*PS4 fan audio increases*

*Turns off PS4*

*Just reads speculation on forums instead*

 

[Dick Justice]

"Vocal chord paras-"

"He's coming too?"

"...mating pairs..."

"Fulton recovery subject confirmed on board helicopter"

"...the Wolbachia"

"ANALYSIS COMPLETE. ANALYSIS COMP-MARKER PLACED. ANALYSIS COMPLETE"

"...Archaea..."

"Boss, that's an enemy gunship!"

And that's why you turn off that shitty voiceover via the options menu.