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[semiconscious]

This is roughly my stance.

I love this game. It is probably my Game of the Year.

I'm just disappointed in it. Not because I didn't get what I want, but it didn't get to be what it deserved.

unfortunately, i don't think kojima would ever've really had the resources, or time, to create the game he initially intended to (& the resources involved in building the fox engine definitely contributed to this). & i think this became obvious to him at a certain point, & that's the point at which things began to go downhill. konami's intervention only sped things up...

 

[Kazuhira]

So the timeline after V has The real Big Boss making outer heaven and then letting Venom Boss take over it while he goes and joins foxhound right? He then sends Solid to take out Venom thinking he will surely fail and that obviously backfires. So Miller must be pissed that Venom dies and helps Solid take down the real Big Boss in Metal Gear 2?

Yep but i think venom created outer heaven before knowing that he was a mental copy of big boss.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Sorry to tell you but this is some of the worst trolling I've encountered on here. Step up your game, son.

...what?

 

[LiK]

Yes they did, for the very, very large part.

yea, way too much info, tbh. every detail of how those parasites work in minute detail.

 

[Luigi87]

yea, way too much info, tbh. every detail of how those parasites work in minute detail.

Yep.

Heck it was one thing that parasites were already the organic nano-machines of this game, but then Zero goes and describes that the vocal cord parasite are also the origin of FOXDIE.

 

[KOMANI]

No they didn't.

Lik never finished the game, don't fault her.

 

[AEREC]

Weird, I found the story to be less convoluted but actually a lot more coherent than most of the rest of the games. Its just a bit unusual in that a lot of the time the significance of many of the key plot points are only apparent after the fact.

Depends on how people get the cutscenes I guess, in the second chapter they def felt a bit more disjointed since I had a happy scene with Quiet, took her on a mission, then got a torture scene with her...it just felt odd.

Same with Eli and the jump from DNA tests, to calling Venom Father, then to confirmation that the DNA doesn't match.

There may have been some tapes that joined those scenes together better but I'm sure a lot of people didn't listen to them at the right time.

This feels like a narrative that seems like it would be better and more cohesive the second time around.

 

[Reebot]

...what?

You broke him.

 

[KOMANI]

You broke him.

He also hasn't finished MGS 2, Mgs3, or PW within the last decade. It's hard to take his comparisons serious. I'm not sure he's even played Phantom Pain or Ground Zeroes.

 

[BadWolf]

There may have been some tapes that joined those scenes together better but I'm sure a lot of people didn't listen to them at the right time.

Which was their own mistake, it's best to listen to them the moment you get them.

 

[Devilinthiscity]

Yep but i think venom created outer heaven before knowing that he was a mental copy of big boss.

Wait, I thought Venom created Diamond Dogs and the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven?

 

[Luigi87]

Wait, I thought Venom created Diamond Dogs and the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven?

That's where it gets... muddy.

Venom Boss leads the Outer Heaven Uprising. It's safe to say Diamond Dogs and Mother Base are N313.

Big Boss apparently doesn't do anything until like... Zanzibar Land?

 

[foxtrot3d]

yea, way too much info, tbh. every detail of how those parasites work in minute detail.

No they actually did not. I'm just gonna repost my analysis video from some pages back:

MGSV: A Phantom Plot (A Critique of MGSV's Story)

But just to make a short list:
-Why did the parasites seem to turn people into zombies?
-How did Skullface plan on getting so many mini-nukes?
-Why do the Skulls Unit members look all pale, sickly and insane but Quiet and Code Talker are perfect in every way?
-Why are these parasites never heard of again when they seem superior in every way to Nanomachines?
-Why did Ocelot need to hypnotize himself? His sole incredible attribute is the fact that he's a spy.
-Why does that cutscene in which you first meet Skullface make no sense? Watch it again. He somehow managed to teleport Saelthropopluosion into Smasei Fort without us or the Soviets seeing or hearing in about two seconds. Why did he bring it to Smasei Fort? To stop us from getting a rocket launcher? Then why didn't he kill us? Why did he have the Skulls Unit kill the Soviet at Smasei Fort when at that point the Soviets still believed he was working for them?
-Why can't Quiet just speak in Navajo, use sign language, Morse Code, tap, blink one for yes, two for no?
-How did the GZ medic get implanted with all of BB's memories? Ocelot was only present for a part of Snake Eater, wasn't with Snake for Portable Ops, and I doubt the medic from GZ was there for those totally private moments in PW.
-How does there exist technology to totally change a persons face and skin color to match another person?
-Why would anyone in XOF follow Skullface when he plans to destroy the English language and XOF is an American Spec Ops group?
-Why didn't Huey just tell us right away where Salethropdick was from the start?
-What happened to Eli and the kids? Don't link me the cut content, if it isn't in the game it's not explained.

I think you get the point.

 

[KOMANI]

Wait, I thought Venom created Diamond Dogs and the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven?

Outer heaven is an idea. Msf, diamond dogs, Zanzibarland... All of them are outer heavens. The main one is the one from MG2. The last one Big Boss creates.

 

[Reebot]

No they actually did not. I'm just gonna repost my analysis video from some pages back:

-How did the GZ medic get implanted with all of BB's memories? Ocelot was only present for a part of Snake Eater, wasn't with Snake for Portable Ops, and I doubt the medic from GZ was there for those totally private moments in PW.

Skull Face was there helping behind the scenes and he told Ocelot who he was also helping behind the scenes.

Fun Fact: No character in MGS 3 or PW did much without Skull Face helping behind the scenes.

 

[DamonForever]

Wait, I thought Venom created Diamond Dogs and the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven?

Who knows? Ocelot specifically mentions Outer Heaven to BB, like he was supposed to build it while VS did random shit. Then we get VS at Outer Heaven, so who knows what BB actually did. Probably just enjoying a his bike ride, until someone tells him to make Zanzibar a thing.

 

[KOMANI]

Skull Face was there helping behind the scenes and he told Ocelot who he was also helping behind the scenes.

Fun Fact: No character in MGS 3 or PW did much without Skull Face helping behind the scenes.

Mgs3 should have been left alone. MGSV tries to drag it into its muddy storyline.
Why can't the games stand on there own anymore?

 

[BadWolf]

All this nitpicking, good lord lol.

There is no way Kojima could have satisfied you guys, just no way.

 

[Ōkami]

Miller and maybe Ocelot founded Diamond Dogs, the organization is already there by the time Venom comes to.

 

[Luigi87]

No they actually did not. I'm just gonna repost my analysis video from some pages back:

MGSV: A Phantom Plot (A Critique of MGSV's Story)

But just to make a short list:
-Why did the parasites seem to turn people into zombies?
-How did Skullface plan on getting so many mini-nukes?
-Why do the Skulls Unit members look all pale, sickly and insane but Quiet and Code Talker are perfect in every way?
-Why are these parasites never heard of again when they seem superior in every way to Nanomachines?
-Why did Ocelot need to hypnotize himself? His sole incredible attribute is the fact that he's a spy.
-Why does that cutscene in which you first meet Skullface make no sense? Watch it again. He somehow managed to teleport Saelthropopluosion into Smasei Fort without us or the Soviets seeing or hearing in about two seconds. Why did he bring it to Smasei Fort? To stop us from getting a rocket launcher? Then why didn't he kill us? Why did he have the Skulls Unit kill the Soviet at Smasei Fort when at that point the Soviets still believed he was working for them?
-Why can't Quiet just speak in Navajo, use sign language, Morse Code, tap, blink one for yes, two for no?
-How did the GZ medic get implanted with all of BB's memories? Ocelot was only present for a part of Snake Eater, wasn't with Snake for Portable Ops, and I doubt the medic from GZ was there for those totally private moments in PW.
-How does there exist technology to totally change a persons face and skin color to match another person?
-Why would anyone in XOF follow Skullface when he plans to destroy the English language and XOF is an American Spec Ops group?
-Why didn't Huey just tell us right away where Salethropdick was from the start?
-What happened to Eli and the kids? Don't link me the cut content, if it isn't in the game it's not explained.

I think you get the point.

At least a few of these are answered in game.
The parasites affecting the brain and controlling people is explained after Mission 43.

Quiet's skintone is likely normal because all her skin are parasites, while other SKULLS aren't. Of course that's only speculation, I can't prove this one.

Quiet didn't communicate because she still partially held a grudge against Big Boss. Admittedly it is kind of a lame plot point, because she could have potentially gotten out of being tortured.

XOF soldiers were likely not too informed about Skull Face's actual plan. They didn't even realize that he (and by extension them) wasn't working for Cipher anymore.

The memory implantation was Zero's doing, not Ocelot's. Zero had all of Big Boss' records. (Not saying the implantation still isn't a dumb idea, but that's the explanation).

Huey is demonstrated to be a sociopath and a pathological liar. Him not coming clean on Sahelanthropus' location, and everything else is just par the course.

That's really all I got... So yeah there are still issues. Oh, and I guess hypnotizing himself is Ocelot's fetish...

 

[Moon_frogger]

Mgs3 should have been left alone. MGSV tries to drag it into its muddy storyline.
Why can't the games stand on there own anymore?

You mean how they retconned sigint into the DARPA chief and revealed that naked snakes entire support team was actually the patriots

I honestly stopped caring at that point and learned to love the series for what it is. Mgs3 remains to this day the only one with a remotely consistent or cohesive narrative. The others are a clusterfuck.

 

[foxtrot3d]

All this nitpicking, good lord lol.

There is no way Kojima could have satisfied you guys, just no way.

Asking for a sensible plot with an actual conclusion is now nitpicking?

At least a few of these are answered in game.
The parasites affecting the brain and controlling people is explained after Mission 43.

Quiet's skintone is likely normal because all her skin are parasites, while other SKULLS aren't. Of course that's only speculation, I can't prove this one.

Quiet didn't communicate because she still partially held a grudge against Big Boss. Admittedly it is kind of a lame plot point, because she could have potentially gotten out of being tortured.

XOF soldiers were likely not too informed about Skull Face's actual plan. They didn't even realize that he (and by extension them) wasn't working for Cipher anymore.

The memory implantation was Zero's doing, not Ocelot's. Zero had all of Big Boss' records. (Not saying the implantation still isn't a dumb idea, but that's the explanation).

Huey is demonstrated to be a sociopath and a pathological liar. Him not coming clean on Sahelanthropus' location, and everything else is just par the course.

That's really all I got... oh, and I guess hypnotizing himself is Ocelot's fetish...

1. No. The parasites only began to effect the brain during the second MB outbreak and that was because they had mutated. Notice that Code Talker was surprised this was even possible despite him being with us all those times those soldiers appeared as zombies meaning that it could not have been the same thing.

2. Baseless speculation.

3. Baselss speculation and unlikely. Skullface had his members send that package to kill Zero and then tried to kill Big Boss. He also openly talked about his entire plan on the walk and jeep ride over for everyone to hear. So they must know.

4. Baseless speculation and again doesn't explain how anyone besides BB would have those private moments he had in all his games. Unless he told everyone how Volgin grabbed his balls, he stared at EVA's tits constantly, The Boss' final speech, killed The Boss' horse, his speech to Kaz after the Paz incident, you get the point.

5. Huey being a sociopath doesn't explain why he would't tell us where Salethropus was. Skullface has betrayed him and actively wants him dead, there is no reason to not give up the info.

6. That's an enemy gunship.

 

[BadWolf]

Miller and maybe Ocelot founded Diamond Dogs, the organization is already there by the time Venom comes to.

Yup, everything was basically ready to go. They just needed Venom/BB to wake up.

Asking for a sensible plot with an actual conclusion is now nitpicking?

Just because it doesn't conform to what you expected doesn't mean it's not sensible or didn't conclude properly. I have very little to complain about personally.

 

[Devilinthiscity]

Who knows? Ocelot specifically mentions Outer Heaven to BB, like he was supposed to build it while VS did random shit. Then we get VS at Outer Heaven, so who knows what BB actually did. Probably just enjoying a his bike ride, until someone tells him to make Zanzibar a thing.

Its a real shame that MGS V marks the point in which the real Big Boss takes a backseat protagonist wise and becomes just a tool for exposition for the rest of the series.

 

[Reebot]

All this nitpicking, good lord lol.

There is no way Kojima could have satisfied you guys, just no way.

Hey, we've hit the endgame once more!

Its always nice to see someone realize they don't have any good argument and just resort to "you guys would complain lol."

 

[Kazuhira]

Wait, I thought Venom created Diamond Dogs and the real Big Boss created Outer Heaven?

Well,the ending showed that diamond dogs becomes outer heaven,so i assumed that Venom did it.
Also,the Outer Heaven logo is Venom's skull.

 

[BadWolf]

Hey, we've hit the endgame once more!

Its always nice to see someone realize they don't have any good argument and just resort to "you guys would complain lol."

Did I even argue with you?

 

[KOMANI]

Sometimes this thread gets ugly. Sometimes people pile on. I do wish we were more respectful to each other.
If you can't add nothing of value, or be humane about it, don't bother posting.

 

[Ishida]

The Database also says Big Boss was a Snatcher after MG1. We know this isn't true at all now. The mythology of this series is meaningless at this point because all established rules of narrative have been broken.

But the database mentions it as a rumor, doesn't it?

 

[Spaghetti]

Sometimes this thread gets ugly. Sometimes people pile on. I do wish we were more respectful to each other.
If you can't add nothing of value, or be humane about it, don't bother posting.

that's tremendously rich considering some of the posts you've made.

 

[foxtrot3d]

Just because it doesn't conform to what you expected doesn't mean it's not sensible or didn't conclude properly. I have very little to complain about personally.

You may very well have enjoyed the plot, but I and many other found it a convoluted mess (more than the accepted Kojima level of plot mess). I'll say that just because you enjoyed it doesn't mean it is not a poorly told, messy story with virtually no themes.

 

[LiK]

that's tremendously rich considering some of the posts you've made.

Indeed

 

[Gorillaz]

In the end, we got an unfinished masterpiece.

A sloppy, lazy and incomplete game that has tapes instead of cutscenes and needless filler content by adding in extreme, subsistence and perfect stealth variations of missions into the main ops category when they are clearly side ops; as well as placing main ops in the side ops category. No Mother Base customization [i.e. we could design it to know the fastest way around it, etc.], probably at least one more location to go to, it seems to be missing some chapters as well and the "twist" is so inane it ruins any and all replay value.

Didn't Kojima already pull this with MGS2 - Snake/Tanker/Big Boss/Ground Zeroes - Raiden/Big Shell/Phantom Big Boss/The Phantom Pain. Wow, how original.

Lazy is what it is. How depressing that we will never get to see the complete game.

The game is a mess - I can't believe Kojima thought we wouldn't notice how rushed and incomplete it is!!!

I dont think he thought of it as we would not notice.

So much as he thought he had a blank check and all the time in the world.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

All this nitpicking, good lord lol.

There is no way Kojima could have satisfied you guys, just no way.

This isn't really fair. I wish you would have more respect for my positions than to dismiss them like this.

 

[BadWolf]

You may very well have enjoyed the plot, but I and many other found it a convoluted mess (more than the accepted Kojima level of plot mess). I'll say that just because you enjoyed it doesn't mean it is not a poorly told, messy story with virtually no themes.

Guess you weren't around for MGS2 and the shit storm that entailed?

It's still my no.1 game of all time.

 

[Reebot]

Did I even argue with you?

No, since broad insults generally aren't seen as proper arguments in polite company.

 

[KOMANI]

Nothing to add

 

[LiK]

All this nitpicking, good lord lol.

There is no way Kojima could have satisfied you guys, just no way.

I think ever since he went into prequel mode, it never satisfied us. And hey, with all the conspiracy theories, there's bound to be nitpicking. It's fun.

 

[lifa-cobex]

That's where it gets... muddy.

Venom Boss leads the Outer Heaven Uprising. It's safe to say Diamond Dogs and Mother Base are N313.

Big Boss apparently doesn't do anything until like... Zanzibar Land?

I think that's kinda case.

BB constructs Outer Heaven and leaves it for Venom to run. Probably brining the troops from DD with him.

BB instructs Frank Jaeger and Snake to infiltrate Outer heaven to probably to be recruited by Venom.

Shit goes wrong for BB and Venom.

edit: DD was a distraction so BB could be left in peace to create Outer Heaven.

 

[Pitch Black Flint]

Yep.

Heck it was one thing that parasites were already the organic nano-machines of this game, but then Zero goes and describes that the vocal cord parasite are also the origin of FOXDIE.

Wait, the game explicitly states this? I must have missed it. I mean, it's obvious that the parasites inspired Foxdie and I'd go so far as to say that's where the Patriots AI got the idea for the Triple S program too. But I can't believe Foxdie was even conceived at this point since there was no need for it without the Genome Soldiers and the fact that Snake, Liquid and even Naomi, the one who developed Foxdie, were all children at the time. Which tape does Zero mention this in?

 

[Reebot]

I think ever since he went into prequel mode, it never satisfied us. And hey, with all the conspiracy theories, there's bound to be nitpicking. It's fun.

Is this the new party line, that fans can never be satisfied in "prequel mode?"

So even if we pretend that everyone hated PW - I know I didn't - 3 is often held up at the best of the series.

 

[Dick Justice]

I think ever since he went into prequel mode, it never satisfied us. And hey, with all the conspiracy theories, there's bound to be nitpicking. It's fun.

Except MGS3 tends to be regarded as one of the best games in the series.

 

[LiK]

Is this the new party line, that fans can never be satisfied in "prequel mode?"

So even if we pretend that everyone hated PW - I know I didn't - 3 is often held up at the best of the series.

Except MGS3 tends to be regarded as one of the best games in the series.

Okay yes, MGS3 is awesome. I meant all the other games after it. Portable Ops, Peace Walker etc.

 

[Legendary---]

Kaz is so overly mad on the Chopper ride back to mother base after you save him.

I know he just lost 2 limbs; but it just seems out of place and Venom is just there not responding like 'uh what', you can see it in his face.

I feel like even at that point Kaz knew about Venom
Being a double and he was just Doubly pissed.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I think ever since he went into prequel mode, it never satisfied us. And hey, with all the conspiracy theories, there's bound to be nitpicking. It's fun.

I loved 1, mostly loved 2 (my issues with it are gameplay-related), and really loved 3.

I don't think it's that he makes bad prequels, it's that most of the prequels he made weren't very good.

 

[Dick Justice]

Okay yes, MGS3 is awesome. I meant all the other games after it. Portable Ops, Peace Walker etc.

You mean the ones where there was a noticeable drop in quality with regards to narrative and general storytelling? (though at least PO and PW felt like proper stories, with actual narrative arcs and endings).

 

[BadWolf]

This isn't really fair. I wish you would have more respect for my positions than to dismiss them like this.

To acknowledge that you have personal taste isn't dismissing your position.

There are just too many fans, each with their own individual expectations. There's no way he can please everyone. A lot of the complaints I'm reading here, if addressed, would have clashed with what I wanted, for example.

I think ever since he went into prequel mode, it never satisfied us. And hey, with all the conspiracy theories, there's bound to be nitpicking. It's fun.

MGS3 and MGSV are excellent imo and very much worthy entries into the series.

Portable Ops and Peace Walker less so but they are portable games and I don't take them as seriously (especially since Kojima said that he was aiming Peace Walker at a younger audience). Still, Peace Walker at the very least is a big part of why MGSV plays so damn good, they learned a lot of valuable lessons in PW and avoided a lot of puddles with MGSV in the gameplay department as a result.

 

[wiibomb]

You mean, as I was being attacked by Clear or Moon? Or when Lik was defending stupid questions that weren't asked towards me?
I'll defend myself no matter what. My intention isn't to devalue you as a person, but don't come at me like dick, or I'll get nasty after the third time you do.

I was wondering why they said that.. they I saw everything by the bolded parts, there is no discussion when you throw offensive statements to build your points, think about it

 

[LiK]

You mean the ones where there was a noticeable drop in quality with regards to narrative and general storytelling? (though at least PO and PW felt like proper stories, with actual narrative arcs and endings).

Yes, even tho I own that amazing Konami-style PO PSP LE. That was quite a bundle.

 

[KOMANI]

There's nothing really wrong with any of them. Some have their strong points.
People have a huge problem with MGs4 and that's not a prequel.