KOMANI
KOMANI
When metal gear started become a "modern western" game, it started to lose its quarks. Especially the ones people came to identify it with.
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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A tape about Eli in 5 is also relevant to Kojima I guess.
"He doesn't understand biology".
Not sure if I like the fact the core conflict of MGS1 has been simplified to "liquid was an idiot who doesn't know shit about genes"
Berserker976
Member
He confused The Boss' space speech with the Fury's space speech probably.
"In the 21st century everyone will be able to see that we are all just inhabitants of a little celestial body called Earth. A world without communism and capitalism... A WORLD SET ABLAZE! that is the world I wanted to see."
Also, can someone explain to me skullfaces grand plan?
From what I got from the game its "he want's to eliminate english due to it being the most commonly used language and he views it as a parasite", which is where I think "ok his plan so far makes sense", then he goes on to say "My metal gears will become the world language, this is the world the boss wanted" where I go "wow, way to become probably the dumbest villain in MGS history"
From what I got from the game its "he want's to eliminate english due to it being the most commonly used language and he views it as a parasite", which is where I think "ok his plan so far makes sense", then he goes on to say "My metal gears will become the world language, this is the world the boss wanted" where I go "wow, way to become probably the dumbest villain in MGS history"
I don't think anything Skull Face did throughout GZ or TPP made sense honestly.
I cannot fathom why his strategy wasn't simply to go to Big Boss and say "yo, help me take down Zero" because I can't figure out what beef he had with Big Boss.
Instead he starts this two front war which unites the Patriots again for the first time in over a decade and hinges on erratic parasites and a child psychic who only appears at the eleventh hour and is of dubious loyalty to anyone.
The Silver
Member
Zero took to heart the "world should be whole" part of her beliefs, thus Cipher/Patriots to control and unite everything.
Big Boss took to heart her disgust with governments using soldiers like pawns for their games, thus Outer Heaven so that wouldn't happen anymore.
Both had their initial plans evolve and get out of control, Zero lost control of his organization and BB kept getting more zealous with every coma. Peace Walker had BB rejecting the Boss when he realized she wasn't some super loyal soldier who followed orders despite hating them, but instead she willingly laid down her gun for peace.
Neither realized what she really wanted was for everyone to stop being dicks, stop imposing dumb ambitions on the world.
MGS4 Big Boss speech is kind of weird with him rejecting the Boss in Peace Walker.(now its even weirder with him not mentioning Venom) That's what happens when you make interquels that are too closely tied with the later sequels.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Legit lol'd at this bit.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
It's what happens when you go from MG1->sequel->sequel->sequel->prequel->definitive conclusion->prequel->prequel. You start running out of road and there's nothing left to write about so you start making shit up that is never mentioned in the previous games because the Patriots erased it from history or something. Which is kinda funny that everyone and their mother knows about what happened in a secret facility on a remote Alaskan Island and no one seems to know fuck all about ethnic cleansers and giant walking anime mecha traipsing around the Afghanistan desert.
Reading Kojima's commentary on characters and themes in V in the CE guide makes his ideas sound incredibly outlandish, especially with how they are executed.
The theme of V is a spin of 1 and 2's theme which was genes and memes and how they spread in a culture. Because he wanted to go microscopic because the game is in the 1980's, he decided to make parasites and symbiosis the theme of V. The Third Child (Mantis) is basically a parasite who latches onto someones lust for revenge, and because Eli was WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Mantis turned on Skullface and Volgin
The theme of V is a spin of 1 and 2's theme which was genes and memes and how they spread in a culture. Because he wanted to go microscopic because the game is in the 1980's, he decided to make parasites and symbiosis the theme of V. The Third Child (Mantis) is basically a parasite who latches onto someones lust for revenge, and because Eli was WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Mantis turned on Skullface and Volgin
MGS V is what happens when you don't have an editor look at all your ideas and separate the wheat from the chaff.
Skull Face explains his plan in the jeep scene. It has two parts.
One is to eliminate the English language through the vocal cord parasites. He wants to eliminate English because it's the dominant language. He has a problem with Western cultural imperialism, how the English language (and thus culture, and thus how people see the world, right and wrong, etc) is squeezing out minority languages (and thus their cultures, etc). The most pure expression of this problem is the Patriots. Skull Face knows Zero can't continue to impose his will on the world if English is gone, since the Patriots will depend on this lingua franca for unification and control.
The second part of Skull Face's plan is to make sure that the languages/cultures that remain will respect each other's boundaries. He will sell Walker Gears (which can be equipped to fire nukes) and homegrown nukes (made with metallic archaea, so no processing plant necessary) to every government, PMC and terrorist cell in the world. He will use Sahelanthropus to inspire fear in the general public, escalating the Cold War. Everyone will buy Walker Gears and nukes, and since even the smallest group of people will now be nuclear powers, the idea is nobody will fuck with anybody.
In other words, it's the theory of nuclear deterrence — Mutually Assured Destruction —applied to every single organization on earth. It's no longer just the big boys who will have the nukes. Now no one will be able to walk over anyone else. The languages/cultures that remain "after English" will fall into a certain balance where they "respect their neighbors," as Skull Face says in the speech.
Yeah it's fun, I'm making the comparison solely on plot/story/cutscene grounds.
And in that respect its dead on.
Perhaps, but both of their needs to cause their fiction to become smaller and smaller is a common trait between them, and is why many people have faults with their later work.
Why did Skull Face keep those vials with him when Big Boss could have shot him at any time?
"Sir, maybe I should take those? I can use the helicopter to get to New York, drop the vial in Times Square. Or hold them safe in any of the probably countless XOF secret bases?"
"Naaaaaaah."
"Sir, maybe I should take those? I can use the helicopter to get to New York, drop the vial in Times Square. Or hold them safe in any of the probably countless XOF secret bases?"
"Naaaaaaah."
Great summary, that was an interesting angle to pursue tbh.
What even happened to Tomokazu Fukushima? It definitely seems like the guy was the one who actually made sense of Kojima's ideas and themes.
Huh... that actually made sense. Maybe I would have understood it in the game if I wasn't so distracted by his long pauses and randomly catching the wind in his hat during the drive the Saelanthrophus's hanger.
lol, maybe
I just rewatched the jeep scene and it's all there, so if you can get past the awkwardness of the drive, you'll see the material supports it
And of course the tapes, etc., all elaborate on it. It's a neat plan he has. Complex, but it works.
I dunno, I think someone in this thread said he was credited on Rain.
I never realized how important he really was.
I don't know, bro.
At least Lucas pin pointed the moment Vader goes evil.
If Kojima was doing Star Wars, phantom menace would have started with a character having a speech saying that Vader goes evil because he missed his mum, and then we would have gotten 3 excellent movies of Vader and the Emperor saving orphans and puppies from even eviler guys and being all around good people.
wtf am i reading.
Greatest Generation
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Tower of Babel.
English is the tower, of sorts. Most popular language in the world. He wants to take that out. Afterwards? Only the straggling masses who don't speak english will survive. That, or the few English speakers that didn't get affected will be 'outcast' of sorts. Afterwards, how do you display power? Sure you have nukes, but nobody can understand each other. Threats are meaningless. That's where Sahelanthropus comes in. A hulking weapon, it's threat is clear to everyone. It'll be a horseman of sorts, as long as it exists that means that conflict will happen for or against it.
If english still existed as a language, people would unite against Skullface and Sahelanthropus. Cutting out english cuts out alot of common communication. It's harder to unite, being 1984 and the lack of an internet like we have today.
Miller and Ocelot pretty much say as much of him in the game.
KOMANI
KOMANI
I thought it was Tower of Babel.
The Silver
Member
You guys trying to me that Fukushima was the Vince McMahon to Kojima's Vince Russo.
To non wrestling watchers,
To non wrestling watchers,
Russo was a writer credited for the most popular period in the industry, after he left McMahon he was revealed to be an insane terrible writer and only worked cause his ideas were filtered through McMahon.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
KOMANI
KOMANI
That was before he went to wcw and sucked.
Yeah, they did. But I couldn't believe it because of Christopher Randolphs voice. I associate that voice so much with Otacon, the loveable otaku that the ladies love, more than his scumbag dad, that I had a hard time actually believing he was guilty until I listened to all his tapes, where it makes him out to be the greatest villain of the the game.
lol, maybe
I just rewatched the jeep scene and it's all there, so if you can get past the awkwardness of the drive, you'll see the material supports it
And of course the tapes, etc., all elaborate on it. It's a neat plan he has. Complex, but it works.
Also, since I am reading the guide, skullfaces main plan was to kill Zero with the parasites. The entire kill english thing is to stop GW from being effective.
Yes, I mentioned the goal to stop the Patriots.
As for killing Zero, it was "another goal," not the main one.
Main goal is to rid the world of a dominant language/culture, and then force the languages/cultures that remain into an uneasy state of Mutually Assured Destruction.
You know what's a great way to ensure that there aren't misunderstandings that can escalate to global thermonuclear war?
Eliminating the common language that nations can use to communicate with each other.
Whoops, my bad.
Skull Face is banking on everyone knowing that everyone else has nukes, and simply not messing with each other out of fear of M.A.D.
GodzillaDB
Member
It would probably be more fitting to compare him with Hideaki Anno (Neon Genesis Evangelion) after the lackluster reception of The Rebuild saga to one of the most influential anime of all time. Both directors are still admittedly talented technicians in their craft, but they've fallen significantly from their heyday as storytellers. All three auteurs have been criticized for diminishing the legacy of their masterpieces and rightfully so in my perspective.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
That's what the Metal Gears are for. Physical threat.
Berserker976
Member
Woah woah woah, Walker Gears can be equipped to fire nukes? Since when?
Exactly. No one needs lingua franca to see the Gears and nukes and realize, "Yeah, it's not worth trying to impose my culture on them." Skull Face is essentially equipping everyone with a big fucking gun.
Dick Justice
Banned
Sounds like most dictators/sociopaths.
They make a point to say the Walker Gears can be mass-manufactured and equipped with a variety of weapons. Slap a railgun on that baby and away you go. Since they're the only "mass market" gears described in the game, when Skull Face says he'll equip everyone with gears so that everyone is a nuclear power, that's the ticket.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Which is great, because in the events of Peace Walker (which Skull Face knows all about), the US is fully prepared to launch nukes, and it takes Big Boss himself phoning a guy at NORAD who happens to know him and can verify his identity to tell him that it's a false alarm, and the rest of the people in the room nearly shoot him for trying to stall for time.
Hot Coldman's entire plan hinged on humans being inherently unwilling to push the button, and he was wrong. Skull Face would know about this. Skull Face would also know about terrorists, aka stateless organizations that can fire nuclear weapons upon enemies with no threat of retaliation because they have no defined homes to be hit by a return strike.
So I guess the wrinkles in the plan are;
1) Without Psycho Mantis there appears to be no way to control Sahelanthropus. But I guess that's why he kept Huey alive as a backup to develop an AI to control it until Psycho Mantis showed up which was quite the risk I suppose.
2) The baffling targeting of Big Boss as part of this vengeance plan. Was it just that to eliminate an unnecessary X factor from fucking up his plans? Because I'll say it again, the smarter move seems to be to turn on Zero first with Big Boss' help, then eliminate Big Boss once Zero is gone.
3) Someone doesn't get desperate and figure out what Code Talker did and introduces the Wolbachia on a wide scale and sterilise most of the planet.
4) Terrorists or stateless actors or religious fundamentalists don't just launch a nuke anyway (who cares if you believe in an afterlife for instance) and fuck up the plan.
I don't know why anyone bothered with the Metal Gears as a nuclear platform.
What people really wanted was the sweet sweet nuclear capability of the rail gun or whatever nuclear launch device the current Metal Gear sported. The bipedal robot was at best accessory and at worst just an expensive toy compared to just putting the rail gun on a truck and calling it a day.
What people really wanted was the sweet sweet nuclear capability of the rail gun or whatever nuclear launch device the current Metal Gear sported. The bipedal robot was at best accessory and at worst just an expensive toy compared to just putting the rail gun on a truck and calling it a day.
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