akidnamededdy
Banned
Compared to playing through the tutorial again?
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SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
- Thread starter MMarston
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Compared to playing through the tutorial again?
None of them are really endings. You build up to endings, most cases. Even Kojima's weirdest game, MGS2, built up to its ending.
TPP has no ending. It's a series of missions, and then suddenly you get the plot twist out of absolutely nowhere, for zero reason, and the credits roll. Like, "here's what I wanted to say, but I had no chance to say it because the game is unfinished, so here it is anyway out of sequence because I think it's important. Sorry if it makes no sense getting here. Enjoy."
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
So they could have just done a 30 second tape or something. I would've taken it, sure.
Eli and Mantis taking Metal Gear away while Miller screams about how this will lead to a new Cold War is kind of a big plot point to leave unresolved.
Even in MGS2, a game which ends on something of a cliffhanger; they make it a point to say how Solid Snake put a tracker on Liquid's RAY and how they secured the real disc containing the information GW wanted to filter. MGS4 brushed away both of those points but they were there to show that it wasn't this urgent scenario that was about to go down but rather something reserved for a future game. In MGSV what happens is significant and then forgotten.
Robot Pants
Member
Perfection
One of my biggest disappointments in gaming
Point is mgsv doesn't even have an ending. If 51 was supposed to be the finale, then it would also have sucked, comparatively. I don't think it was supposed to end with 51.
Berserker976
Member
Haha, oh wow! I hope this is a joke, because otherwise...
I mean, there's Delusional, and then there's [EXTREME] Delusional
Nintendoga
Member
So I was thinking, what are the odds that Konami pulls a Lords of Shadows and reboots MGS now that Kojima is gone? While not necessary, there's still plenty of more spots in the timeline for new Big Boss or Snake or Raiden stories. It's just a matter of if Konami's willing to go through the effort of trying to remain consistent as possible or just give up and reboot it.
Tbh I'm not even sure if that'd be the worst case scenario for the franchise. The future of the series ain't very bright no matter which way you look at it.
Tbh I'm not even sure if that'd be the worst case scenario for the franchise. The future of the series ain't very bright no matter which way you look at it.
mgs2master2
Banned
I'd play this mission
Kaz: Boss, Mother Base is in the red. The only way we can get out of the red is Miller's Maxi Burgers. You must find us the freshest ingredients, additcitves and the fabled Chemical Burger. We have marked all the locations except for the Chemical Burger on your iDroid. Find the ingredients, the additives, the location of the Chemical Burger, and the Burger itself. Mother Base and Diamond Dogs depends on the fate of these items! Good luck Boss!
51 wouldn't be a satisfying ending, but it looked like it might mix up stuff in terms of gameplay, like avoiding traps and going against child soldiers in a challenging way and it at least finished an arc the game started. Without 51 details being released, we'd be left wondering wtf went down with a bunch of kids and a giant robot that apparently never affected the world.
Robot Pants
Member
Just remake MG1 and 2 in the fox engine god damnit. Thats all anyone has ever wanted. And completely rewrite and remake 4 while youre at it.
Then redo 5
Anyone here following the references to 'Portopia' in the game's code? Sounds like there was a huge breakthrough. They decoded a rom hack of the game deliberately left inside TPP.
I've been reading a bit about that whole thing, about the codes or whatever, and sniffed out some numerology stink. People are probably just reaching way too far to fill in for something that doesn't exist, which is the rest of the story.
johnsavage
Member
I kinda forgot about that. It's crazy how the game was in the tapes. I wonder what will come out of it. This is definitely more substantial than the other theories on that sub.
Yeah they found volume 3 and are able to run it apparently. Hopefully somethings comes of this. The parallels are pretty compelling and there's no reason for Kojima to go out of his way to put portopia code in mgsv. If he wanted legit startup noise he could have just used metal gear and it wouldn't cost a thing.
Edit: I think dude jumped the gun and accidentally ran the original ROM. Smh
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RyanardoDaVinci
Member
Nice detail with Ish creeping at the start.
If they actually get it running and find something, great, but right now I'm skeptical of the whole thing, and if I get invested in the search I feel like I'm setting myself up for disappointment.
So I didn't see this until now, but there's a cutscene that only occurs when morale is low (from negative GMP, apparently), and it is awesome: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifY5kktFw44
Such a great Venom moment at the end. Too bad you have to mismanage your base to see it, lol.
Such a great Venom moment at the end. Too bad you have to mismanage your base to see it, lol.
So that's where that scene was. I think that's a great character building moment for VS.
OK, in addition to the above, I'm now seeing this for the first time, as well DD greeting you if you've been away for a while (or at least I guess those are the conditions): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQVEf3Pr-0I
How many hidden cutscenes are in this game??
JayBabay
Member
Has to be one of the strangest conclusions to a very anticipated title and a personally highly regarded series.
The game plays fantastic, and during the first 15-20 hours I didn't feel a need for more story telling, being content with the excellent gameplay and the few expositions in between. This was, of course, with the impression that it was building towards something conclusive and heartfelt. The longer the game went on, the more incoherent story elements were added and by the end it felt like a weak effort in portraying the significance of resolution it presented.
I just wasn't shook the way I was when I played the first mission, was presented in the open world to explore, developed my base and new weapons and accessories to engross myself further in the deep gameplay, built relationships with buddies, from watching them grow to seeing the different ways they react to situations. This is the engrossing gameplay that totally made it easy to not worry about the story because it felt like you let building towards a goal.
By the end, I didn't feel the signicance of what I was playing for, but I loved it and clocked a significant number of hours along the way. It's a fantastic game, albeit clearly unfinished. Glaringly so when taking into consideration the lack of ciriticism in professional journalism towards the lackluster and repetitive second chapter. I wouldn't have felt as let down if those post chapter one credits and montage after didn't speak to something greater.
Still, the game is a masterpiece in gameplay and art direction. Questionable character development comes as a cost for more openness and game time. It's almost a complete opposite of past series formulas save for the convoluted plot.
The game plays fantastic, and during the first 15-20 hours I didn't feel a need for more story telling, being content with the excellent gameplay and the few expositions in between. This was, of course, with the impression that it was building towards something conclusive and heartfelt. The longer the game went on, the more incoherent story elements were added and by the end it felt like a weak effort in portraying the significance of resolution it presented.
I just wasn't shook the way I was when I played the first mission, was presented in the open world to explore, developed my base and new weapons and accessories to engross myself further in the deep gameplay, built relationships with buddies, from watching them grow to seeing the different ways they react to situations. This is the engrossing gameplay that totally made it easy to not worry about the story because it felt like you let building towards a goal.
By the end, I didn't feel the signicance of what I was playing for, but I loved it and clocked a significant number of hours along the way. It's a fantastic game, albeit clearly unfinished. Glaringly so when taking into consideration the lack of ciriticism in professional journalism towards the lackluster and repetitive second chapter. I wouldn't have felt as let down if those post chapter one credits and montage after didn't speak to something greater.
Still, the game is a masterpiece in gameplay and art direction. Questionable character development comes as a cost for more openness and game time. It's almost a complete opposite of past series formulas save for the convoluted plot.
MrJTeera
Member
Always had a feeling someone's behind that curtain
Didn't Hayter himself say in an interview that he became too expensive over the course of the multiple titles leading to "some people" to think that they may as well hire a more critically recognized actor for that money?
Serpens007
Member
Just finished the game.
I loved the ending and how it connected the series as a whole, as I liked the fourth wall breaking.
That said, I did not like the "final" mission. No build up, just "here, finish it". There clearly is a missing chapter, at least. By the end of Chapter 2, Venom is just starting to become "demonish" with all the weird things that are happening. All of a sudden, Venom realises who he really is? Nah, there is something missing in between.
I was reading now the Guide, after finishing the game, and there are plenty of hidden, repeatable Mother Base cutscenes in the game, as well as there are missable ones. And there are variables to the ones you are more likely to get (like the stinky Snake variaton with Quiet).
I loved the ending and how it connected the series as a whole, as I liked the fourth wall breaking.
That said, I did not like the "final" mission. No build up, just "here, finish it". There clearly is a missing chapter, at least. By the end of Chapter 2, Venom is just starting to become "demonish" with all the weird things that are happening. All of a sudden, Venom realises who he really is? Nah, there is something missing in between.
I was reading now the Guide, after finishing the game, and there are plenty of hidden, repeatable Mother Base cutscenes in the game, as well as there are missable ones. And there are variables to the ones you are more likely to get (like the stinky Snake variaton with Quiet).
At what point in chapter 2 became he demonish? When he kept his men from mob killing Huey? When he rushed out to save his sileny comrade? When he didn't execute that annoying troublemaker Eli? When he mercy killed men that were already dead and suffering?
Serpens007
Member
He didn't. But he was starting to when the whole killing his own men kicked. Yeah, he did "the right thing", but it clearly messed him. That thing with the ashes? He was able to kill them, it doesn't matter if it was "mercy" or not. He shot them, he hates himself for doing it, he wants to give his men the whole world, but he ended up shooting them. It's all a perspective thing.
Leaving Huey drifting wasn't very mercyful either. That's a slow death, even if he "felt" he would suvive with that little box.
The thing that blows my mind about that is the fact you'd never really see Big Boss standing there, but then he quickly jumps into bed and pretends he's sleeping as if he got caught, random attention to detail.
Still makes me laugh how Kojima fixates on one or two things and then blitzes them into his story with no regard for subtlety at all. In this case, 1984, David Bowie's music (from 1984, lol), and Moby Dick. I've always imagined him as the kind of guy who'd get obsessed with a book or a song and be like - yeah, this is it... I'm going to base my whole fuckin' plot on this song, man, this song contains the meaning of life and shit.
I actually suspected this when listening to the Not Your Kind of People trailer way back when, which seemed like an uncanny fit during the trailer but seems even more so now that the game has released. I mean, either he paid Garbage to write the song this way or he decided to work from the lyrics in lieu of writing a proper plot.
Let's take a look, and apologies as I'm sure this must have been done before:
We are not your kind of people. (Boss and the Mother Base soldiers are societal outcasts, this line repeats for emphasis)
You seem kind of phoney, everything's a lie. (Venom's a fake! HE'S A FAKE!)
We are not your kind of people.
Something in your makeup. (Makeup is a reference to Venom's facial surgery)
Don't see eye to eye. (Venom's missing an eye, guys, just like Big Boss)
We are not your kind of people.
Don't want to be like you, ever in our lives. (Venom wasn't given the choice, but the player readily accepts being like Big Boss)
We are not your kind of people.
We fight when you start talking. ('You' refers to Kaz, and how his briefings are the start of every mission, Venom never actually orders or takes a mission himself)
There's nothing but white noise. (Most of the missions are devoid of plot beats, Kaz's droning is inane.)
Ahhh.... Ahhh.... Ahhh.... Ahhh.... (Vocal expression of the pain of a phantom limb)
Running around trying to fit in, (Traversing the open world for minutes at a time, and using your cardboard box to blend in, obviously)
Wanting to be loved. (Relationship with Quiet)
It doesn't take much, for someone to shut you down. (The nuclear inspection and a snuke is all that was required)
When you build a shell, build an army in your mind. (Do I need to spell this one out? They just left out the word 'Big' before shell.)
You can't sit still, and you don't like hanging round the crowd. (Venom appears to live on his ACC rather than Mother Base, it's odd as hell)
They don't understand (To be fair they really don't, Huey in particular. How could anyone understand what the dude has been through.)
You dropped by as I was sleeping. (Clear Zero reference; truth tapes)
You came to see the whole commotion. (Possible hospital escape reference, could refer to Mantis 'latching on')
And when I woke I started laughing. (This is everyone's reaction when they 'wake' to the twist, and Venom's reaction is a smirk in the mirror)
The jokes on me for not believing. (The Venom twist was widely speculated and then denied. Well, joke's on us!)
We are not your kind of people.
Speak a different language. (Kikongo, presumably)
We see through your lies. (Must be Cipher's lies, because the fans didn't see Hideo's ruses coming)
We are not your kind of people.
Won't be cast as demons, (Venom is 'cast' as a both a demon and a snake)
Creatures you despise. (Snakes are widely despised creatures; it's at this stage I'm convinced this song was used as Kojima's first draft of TPP)
We are extraordinary people. (Kojima referencing the director, writer and game designer of this game)
We are extraordinary people. (Again for emphasis)
We are extraordinary people. (Hint: They're all Hideo Kojima)
We are extraordinary people. (A Hideo Kojima game)
I actually suspected this when listening to the Not Your Kind of People trailer way back when, which seemed like an uncanny fit during the trailer but seems even more so now that the game has released. I mean, either he paid Garbage to write the song this way or he decided to work from the lyrics in lieu of writing a proper plot.
Let's take a look, and apologies as I'm sure this must have been done before:
We are not your kind of people. (Boss and the Mother Base soldiers are societal outcasts, this line repeats for emphasis)
You seem kind of phoney, everything's a lie. (Venom's a fake! HE'S A FAKE!)
We are not your kind of people.
Something in your makeup. (Makeup is a reference to Venom's facial surgery)
Don't see eye to eye. (Venom's missing an eye, guys, just like Big Boss)
We are not your kind of people.
Don't want to be like you, ever in our lives. (Venom wasn't given the choice, but the player readily accepts being like Big Boss)
We are not your kind of people.
We fight when you start talking. ('You' refers to Kaz, and how his briefings are the start of every mission, Venom never actually orders or takes a mission himself)
There's nothing but white noise. (Most of the missions are devoid of plot beats, Kaz's droning is inane.)
Ahhh.... Ahhh.... Ahhh.... Ahhh.... (Vocal expression of the pain of a phantom limb)
Running around trying to fit in, (Traversing the open world for minutes at a time, and using your cardboard box to blend in, obviously)
Wanting to be loved. (Relationship with Quiet)
It doesn't take much, for someone to shut you down. (The nuclear inspection and a snuke is all that was required)
When you build a shell, build an army in your mind. (Do I need to spell this one out? They just left out the word 'Big' before shell.)
You can't sit still, and you don't like hanging round the crowd. (Venom appears to live on his ACC rather than Mother Base, it's odd as hell)
They don't understand (To be fair they really don't, Huey in particular. How could anyone understand what the dude has been through.)
You dropped by as I was sleeping. (Clear Zero reference; truth tapes)
You came to see the whole commotion. (Possible hospital escape reference, could refer to Mantis 'latching on')
And when I woke I started laughing. (This is everyone's reaction when they 'wake' to the twist, and Venom's reaction is a smirk in the mirror)
The jokes on me for not believing. (The Venom twist was widely speculated and then denied. Well, joke's on us!)
We are not your kind of people.
Speak a different language. (Kikongo, presumably)
We see through your lies. (Must be Cipher's lies, because the fans didn't see Hideo's ruses coming)
We are not your kind of people.
Won't be cast as demons, (Venom is 'cast' as a both a demon and a snake)
Creatures you despise. (Snakes are widely despised creatures; it's at this stage I'm convinced this song was used as Kojima's first draft of TPP)
We are extraordinary people. (Kojima referencing the director, writer and game designer of this game)
We are extraordinary people. (Again for emphasis)
We are extraordinary people. (Hint: They're all Hideo Kojima)
We are extraordinary people. (A Hideo Kojima game)
confession: despite posting/lurking in this thread a lot, i only just started playing the game today (not having a CC while living in a non-english speaking country means I couldn't get it right away. got a new card and dled it off PSN today).
I think...reading this thread and all the complaints elsewhere has helped me temper my expectations somewhat. I can go in accepting it for what it is and be fully prepared for its faults. So far the gameplay is really good at least, but holy crap is the hospital intro really tedious and dull. (also lol at miller's rage in the helicopter while fake snake just stares out into space with stereotypical DUN DUN DUN dramatic music playing)
also for all the ways they showed how to finish a hero's way in that demo, i basically just tranq'ed the guy, and while his guards were confused i picked them off one by one. was much easier than i thought it'd be.
on mission...5 or 6 now (the one where you have to get that engineer)
playing the PS3 version and it runs really well, far better than i imagined. the framerate gets a bit choppy sometimes, but it's perfectly playable.
I think...reading this thread and all the complaints elsewhere has helped me temper my expectations somewhat. I can go in accepting it for what it is and be fully prepared for its faults. So far the gameplay is really good at least, but holy crap is the hospital intro really tedious and dull. (also lol at miller's rage in the helicopter while fake snake just stares out into space with stereotypical DUN DUN DUN dramatic music playing)
also for all the ways they showed how to finish a hero's way in that demo, i basically just tranq'ed the guy, and while his guards were confused i picked them off one by one. was much easier than i thought it'd be.
on mission...5 or 6 now (the one where you have to get that engineer)
playing the PS3 version and it runs really well, far better than i imagined. the framerate gets a bit choppy sometimes, but it's perfectly playable.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Exactly.
DKehoe
Member
So it is meant to be a reflection of that? Is this the point where we are meant to view Big Boss as a hypocrite? It just didn't feel like that's what we were meant to feel about him at the end. Perhaps because the person with him at the time is Ocelot who is a Big Boss fanboy and loves everything he does.
The first I heard of Not Your Kind Of People was actually in Sims, shockingly, there's a simlish version.
But that whole song so blatantly gives away the fact you are not Big Boss and everything (to Venom) is a lie and he is getting used and abused until the very end that I just assumed from the moment that trailer came out, we were suppose to be aware that you aren't the real Big Boss and went into the game fully sure of this fact, so the idea that people didn't hear the song that way or saw those trailers and were still totally caught off guard is completely baffling to me.
Blackthorn
"hello?" "this is vagina"
Hidden details (Big Boss eavesdropping on Venom, the flowers being from his vase) that are only revealed by modding the PC version is truly peak Kojima.
I wonder what they'll find in other cutscenes.
"So at the end of Ground Zeroes Big Boss is in a coma"
"Hai"
"But at the end of Peace Walker, Miller talks about the coma as already having happened. So was Big Boss in two comas, or...?"
"I can't talk about that, but at the end of The Phantom Pain it will all make sense"
lolNOPE.gif
#TwoComasDealWithItBitch
#YesThereWereTwoComasAndIHopeYouBurnInHell
"Hai"
"But at the end of Peace Walker, Miller talks about the coma as already having happened. So was Big Boss in two comas, or...?"
"I can't talk about that, but at the end of The Phantom Pain it will all make sense"
lolNOPE.gif
#TwoComasDealWithItBitch
#YesThereWereTwoComasAndIHopeYouBurnInHell
The Silver
Member
nah, Venom being a mirror of The Boss is how it is when you actually look deeper into it but the game itself doesn't delve into that aspect at all.
It's just content with telling you "YOU'RE BIG BOSS, CONGRALUTIONS! BYE."
Berserker976
Member
No, he's "Punishing" him for doing such a crap job in GZ. If the medic had done his job properly, Paz and Chico would be alive, and Big Boss wouldn't have lost a decade of his life to a coma.
I'm liking this theory more and more.
Stereogatari
Banned
I realised today that by Big Boss "selling the World" he has done exactly to Venom Snake, what was done to him by The Boss. People are saying we didn't see him turn to evil because Kojima doesn't have the heart to do it, but this kind of action is very evil. He fucked US over, like literally US the player that adored him so much.
And that makes me like this twist even more. At first I liked it, then I was unsure, but now I love it.
And that makes me like this twist even more. At first I liked it, then I was unsure, but now I love it.
Oh I see I wasn't the only one with these thoughts this morning.
Unknown One
Member
Never adored Big Boss.
Sumio Mondo
Member
Yeah, it still doesn't make sense. KOJIMA!
What? Where is this spoilercast located? Is it premium content? If so, I'm so going to become a member just to hear it!
E: Found it!
Vampirolol
Member
Keep in mind that Big Boss used Solid Snake too in MG1, and now we know that meanwhile he was using Venom as a shield. The plot twist isn't there just because, it showed us what it feels to be a soldier of Outer Heaven: the same as being a soldier for USA, you believe in a dream that isn't even yours.
I wasn't expect the mission 45 to get so "I spit on your grave" for a second. You not being Big Boss was obvious from the time you figure out Ishmael is voiced by Sutherland and the the whole "V is awake" thing/ plastic surgery. Also I made my avatar black did the surgeon literally remove my skin and replace it or was their some sort of bleaching procedure, how did they alter the vocal cords that much. What about the memory implantation did they scrub this dudes brain? Why does Miller know Huey was talking to a Biotech company in the U.S but waited until after shit got fucked? Can't Quiet just write stuff down? Didn't anyone offer her a pen and pad? She understands english.
Fake Edit: The important thing is Solid Snake is still the coolest.
Fake Edit: The important thing is Solid Snake is still the coolest.
Besides the total lack of a thematic build up to the final twist of the game, I think a question worth asking is simply when and where is Venom in that creepy dark bathroom with seemingly warzone noises goin off in the background? At what point in time and how did he receive the cassette tape, and has anyone deciphered that signal from its B side?
You can tell Kojima thought of the beginning and end first, and maybe didn't even determine how many of those TV style episodes and seasons he would stuff in between, but the Mission 51 definitely seems like just another season finale but not series finale.
It's bizarre how ambitious its whole concept was, seemingly facilitating an entire new map, which I suspect they would have to get more mileage out of by also holding various smaller missions and side-ops there. All while they could have simply gone the cheaper route I was expecting them to the whole time and just recycle the Sahelanthropus battle and hold it across the Africa map.
You can tell Kojima thought of the beginning and end first, and maybe didn't even determine how many of those TV style episodes and seasons he would stuff in between, but the Mission 51 definitely seems like just another season finale but not series finale.
It's bizarre how ambitious its whole concept was, seemingly facilitating an entire new map, which I suspect they would have to get more mileage out of by also holding various smaller missions and side-ops there. All while they could have simply gone the cheaper route I was expecting them to the whole time and just recycle the Sahelanthropus battle and hold it across the Africa map.
Going through the story again and it's interesting how after Venom comes back to MB with the kids from that mission in Africa it looked like he fully intended to give them a gun and make use of them as soldiers.
It was Miller who stepped in and said that they would give them an education instead and that "there is no place for angels in our heaven".
It was Miller who stepped in and said that they would give them an education instead and that "there is no place for angels in our heaven".
Well-said. This is one of several reasons I love the twist. BB's compliance with the plan to sacrifice the hospital and put Venom and his army in harm's way, just to achieve his own dream of Zanzibarland, is his "atomic bombing of Hiroshima" moment -- a decision where in his eyes, "the ends justify the means," the suffering of others be damned. In this way, we see BB "turn" without him even taking the spotlight. Instead of seeing the person become evil, we see everything from the POV of those victimized by his ambitions, which makes it sting more and feel more personal, imo, since we play as the victim (Venom), take care of Mother Base, and see firsthand the hell at the hospital.
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