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[Red Blaster]

About that...

republicans who weren't former democrats

 

[unholyrevenger72]

About that...

Nah that's old stuff. I'm talking modern.

 

[Scum]

Pretty sure this is like the 15th time.

I am all for people owning guns to protect themselves, family, and their property. We just need control and regulations to ensure guns that are being sold are to mentally stable and mature individuals who have taken XX number(hours) of gun safety and training classes. And have yearly or biyearly checkups and classes to keep people decently trained and to make sure they are still responsible enough to own a firearm.

I would definitely prefer banning guns altogether and buy back and melt down guns from current owners. I just know that is never going to happen. We just need to start a compromise, but the right who are in power won't even open up a line of communication.

14 times.

Fucking hell! D:

 

[ThusZarathustra]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2014/09/19/the-racial-divide-in-americas-gun-deaths/

^This article has some good infographics re: gun violence per region.

That tracks race of victims, not perpetrators.

 

[B-Dubs]

republicans who weren't former democrats

Nah that's old stuff. I'm talking modern.

Just want to check, do accidental shootings and suicides count?

Also, if it doesn't, about that

 

[Formless]

Have the NRA provide the regular training/classes. Wouldnt they like that?

 

[marrec]

oh no, i know like, seven, white men. should i start wearing body armor to be safe?

This is important.

Do you know any white men with guns?

Because if you do, I'd buy a gun just to be safe.

 

[Piggus]

Have the NRA provide the regular training/classes. Wouldnt they like that?

They're really not trustworthy enough. The ATF should be expanded to handle such a program imo.

The NRA is against anything that might potentially damage sales of guns. They don't care about anything else at this point.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Can we like all agree yet that angry white men in our own country are more a threat to us than any perceived foreign threat? I mean Christ look at this.

I always, ALWAYS howl with laughter when I see videos of people saying "I don't feel safe in my own country because of ISIS".

 

[thespot84]

They're really not trustworthy enough. The ATF should be expanded to handle such a program imo.

The NRA is against anything that might potentially damage sales of guns. They don't care about anything else at this point.

It'd be nice of the ATF had someone at the helm to do something like that...oh wait

Spoiler

nm the NRA 'allowed' someone to be appointed in 2013, my bad.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Just want to check, do accidental shootings and suicides count?

Were 4+ people hurt in the accident/suicide?

Have the NRA provide the regular training/classes. Wouldnt they like that?

That's a but load of overhead. It's cheaper to just not care who can buy guns

 

[CitizenCope]

37% voter turnout. Every time something like this happens, I am reminded of that. Liberal voters have no right to be pissed off. It's on them too. It's not some lobbyists or some other abstraction. If you want gun control, you vote.

Bingo!

 

[DragonSworne]

Didn't want to put it in the OP, but I also found this.


Totally insane gun nut responds to speech. Like "I don't even know if this thing took place" crazy. This is what we're up against.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeD0eR3ol6c

So sad. This man is so used to being lied to by Fox News and Republicans he assumes that democrats are worse since if Republicans lie, why would a Democrat lie? One of the more vile strategies republicans employ.

 

[Afrodium]

What's frustrating about the whole "don't politicize it" argument is that it implies that gun control legislation is part of some innately liberal agenda that is pushed by Democrats purely for political gain and not a measure that many people and politicians actually think would prevent these atrocities from continuing to happen.

 

[zychi]

we need a new plague.gif

 

[B-Dubs]

Were 4+ people hurt in the accident/suicide?

Yea...I got one...


I think anyways. I'll admit that one was a little harder. If you get any more specific I might be in trouble.

 

[billeh]

I gotta take off my shoes and stand in front of an x-ray (which is all theater) every time I want to fly somewhere, yet this shit is a fucking epidemic we can't even admit is a problem.

 

[Maximus.]

Thank you Obama for telling it straight up how it needs to be told. Saying it the way he did just shows how fucking ignorant and selfish politicians and gun supporters are being in blocking any sort of laws to be talked about or passed to save lives.

 

[Professor Beef]

This is important.

Do you know any white men with guns?

Because if you do, I'd buy a gun just to be safe.

I know a white guy with no guns, but he's quite happy all the time. Am I safe?

 

[Lirlond]

Can't the US hold a referendum? Let the people decide. Surely that's as American as it gets

 

[B-Dubs]

Can't the US hold a referendum? Let the people decide. Surely that's as American as it gets

Nope.

 

[Bodacious]

Can't the US hold a referendum? Let the people decide. Surely that's as American as it gets

There's a process for that. See Article V.

 

[MIMIC]

Obama asked news organizations to compare gun violence deaths to terrorist attacks. I did a research paper for my Homeland Security Law class just last month where I briefly addressed that very issue

From my paper:

The numbers simply do not add up when it comes to concerns about safety. Surely gun violence is included among safety concerns, especially since an American is far more likely to die from gun violence than they are a terrorist attack. So despite the fact that guns kill far more Americans annually than terrorists do (32,000 gun-related deaths in the U.S. alone vs. the 13,000 killed globally by terrorism ), the Muslim and Arab communities have received far more hostility (and have been subjected to far more scrutiny) in the aftermath of 9/11. Americans are far more concerned with unnecessarily targeting individuals to prevent an extremely unlikely event than they are with preventing an event that is more likely to occur.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Can't the US hold a referendum? Let the people decide. Surely that's as American as it gets

Article Five of the United States Constitution describes the process whereby the Constitution may be altered. Altering the Constitution consists of proposing an amendment or amendments and subsequent ratification.[1]

Amendments may be adopted and sent to the states for ratification by either:

Two-thirds (supermajority) of both the Senate and the House of Representatives of the United States Congress;
OR

By a national convention assembled at the request of the legislatures of at least two-thirds (at present 34) of the states.


To become part of the Constitution, an amendment must be ratified by either (as determined by Congress):

The request of legislatures of three-fourths (at present 38) of the states;
OR

State ratifying conventions in three-fourths (at present 38) of the states.

To guard against oppressive government of any kind, the authors of the United States Constitution sought to establish institutional checks and balances. In framing the Constitution as the fundamental embodiment of such safeguards, the Constitutional Convention assembled in Philadelphia in 1787,[14] at the invitation of the Congress of the Confederation.[15] That is the last time a federal constitutional convention was convened in the United States.

.

 

[Lirlond]

Nope.

There's a process for that. See Article V.

That's dumb.

 

[neogaffer1]

This is important.

Do you know any white men with guns?

Because if you do, I'd buy a gun just to be safe.

two of the seven own guns, so i'm going to buy TWO guns so that i can defend myself.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Honestly I'm really curious too. It seems like a safe assertion, but many things do. Another thing I'd be curious to see numbers on would be a socioeconomic/regional/racial breakdown of those for and againist stronger gun control laws. Again, there's lots of seemingly safe assertions, but I'd love to see the numbers. (Then I'd like to read an examination of how the numbers were collected, seeings as these things are usually pretty small in sample size.)

EDIT: Marrec had a reply earlier that said statistically if you die in a mass shooting you're likely to both know the person and have them be white. If he's got a link to someone who's run all the numbers of all the shootings in the past x amount of time, I'd love to check it out

Doing a cursory glance, blacks are murdered twice as much by gunfire when compared to whites, and we know that the vast majority of murders (around 90-93% for blacks I believe) are intraracial. We also know that in general, gun or not, blacks disproportionately commit homicide. These DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, 52% of all homicides were committed by blacks. These are just raw numbers without looking into the "why," of course. However, I think it's safe to say, at least per capita, that blacks are more likely to use a gun to commit homicide. Feel free to correct me if I made an error or missed out on vital information.

Having fewer guns in poor neighborhoods, while not addressing poverty or institutional racism, would certainly drive down the death count and put many people in these communities at relative ease. Gang violence probably accounts for a good percentage of these deaths. Honestly, it's a mess of different problems that need to be disentangled.

 

[Angelus Errare]

two of the seven own guns, so i'm going to buy TWO guns so that i can defend myself.

You actually need to buy 4+ guns. You need guns to defend against them, and guns to defend against their guns.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

two of the seven own guns, so i'm going to buy TWO guns so that i can defend myself.

one for the each of ye

 

[B-Dubs]

You actually need to buy 4+ guns. You need guns to defend against them, and guns to defend against their guns.

Don't forget the guns to defend against your guns, since you're statistically more likely to hurt yourself with your guns than anything else.

 

[Bodacious]

That's dumb.

It's dumb that the Constitution describes a procedure for amending its content?

ok.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Just watched the video. Obama was so God damn real. This shit is so sad and sadly so familiar.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Nevermind the people are trained, and had a background check.

Along with constant mental evaluations for as long as you're on the job.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Don't forget the guns to defend against your guns, since you're statistically more likely to hurt yourself with your guns than anything else.

Very true! See the system works!

 

[ThusZarathustra]

Doing a cursory glance, blacks are murdered twice as much by gunfire when compared to whites, and we know that the vast majority of murders (around 90-93% for blacks I believe) are intraracial. We also know that in general, gun or not, blacks disproportionately commit homicide. These DOJ statistics show that between 1980 and 2008, 52% of all homicides were committed by blacks.

Cool, if mostly irrelevant. I'm more interested in the gun aspect of it and the regionalism and socioecnomics and microcultures that the numbers would give insight into than I am anything else. Just saying "Blacks commited 52% of homicides betwen 1980 and 2008" is too lacking in additional context to say anything more than simply what it says. It says nothing about motivation, lifestlye, weapon of choice, personal history, etc etc

I do wonder about the ratio of intercity violence vis a vis race to rural/smaller town/city violence as well. In the end it matters little, as stronger gun control laws are needed, no matter who wields them. But, I would be interested to see who (regionally, racially, socioeconomically, etc) is most against those much-needed controls.

 

[B-Dubs]

Very true! See the system works!

You're forgetting the guns to defend against the guns you bought to defend against your original guns. Also the guns to defend against those guns.

Really, you need as many guns as humanly possible.

 

[Lirlond]

It's dumb that the Constitution describes a procedure for amending its content?

ok.

It's dumb that the people have no ability to change something their Congress never will.

 

[NeoXChaos]

It's dumb that the people have no ability to change something their Congress never will.

Yes they do. The answer is in your post. Vote in people who will go to Congress to change such laws.

 

[Owari]

If a republican is elected next year, I think I'm just going to move to a better country. I love America, but there are far too many dumbasses here. I always vote, and will continue to do so, but if some pro gun anti abortion fucknut is elected im fucking out.

I remain hopeful that things can change, hopefully that isn't foolish of me.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Yes they do. The answer is in your post. Vote in people who will go to Congress to change such laws.

Except you can't because Gerrymandering. We should do away with congress power to vote and just go forward with a direct democracy

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Not from the US so I don't know how this works, but how do the campus shooters, armed with multiple guns and sometimes explosives, get past the campus security? Or is campus security not strictly enforced?

 

[B-Dubs]

Except you can't because Gerrymandering. We should do away with congress power to vote and just go forward with a direct democracy

That would be even worse. We'd be like 50 years behind, in regards to social issues, if we had a direct democracy.

 

[Jawbreaker]

Cool, if mostly irrelevant. I'm more interested in the gun aspect of it and the regionalism and socioecnomics and microcultures that the numbers would give insight into than I am anything else. Just saying "Blacks commited 52% of homicides betwen 1980 and 2008" is too lacking in additional context to say anything more than simply what it says. It says nothing about motivation, lifestlye, weapon of choice, personal history, etc etc

I do wonder about the ratio of intercity violence vis a vis race to rural/smaller town/city violence as well. In the end it matters little, as stronger gun control laws are needed, no matter who wields them. But, I would be interested to see who (regionally, racially, socioeconomically, etc) is most against those much-needed controls.

I added a bit more to my post in an edit, but yes, those are definitely more interesting points to look for that aren't explored as often.

 

[EatinOlives]

Not from the US so I don't know how this works, but how do the campus shooters, armed with multiple guns and sometimes explosives, get past the campus security? Or is campus security not strictly enforced?

Most campuses are "open" in that you can walk into them from any angle. There's no real way to put in any kind of security checkpoints except inside buildings, and even then you're talking about buildings with many different entrances. College campuses are very rarely built with this kind of security in mind.

 

[RastaMentality]

That's dumb.

It's not like a referendum to the 2nd amendment would actually pass, though. It'd mobilize gun owners like hell.

 

[diaspora]

Well America earned it.

I agree.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Most campuses are "open" in that you can walk into them from any angle. There's no real way to put in any kind of security checkpoints except inside buildings, and even then you're talking about buildings with many different entrances. College campuses are very rarely built with this kind of security in mind.

I see. So most college campuses in the US are not really enclosed inside gates and checkpoints. In addition to the gun laws which right now look like they really have to be reformed, maybe campus security should be improved as well. An armed individual shouldn't be able to go inside college buildings, labs, gyms, etc.

 

[NeoXChaos]

Except you can't because Gerrymandering. We should do away with congress power to vote and just go forward with a direct democracy

Which can be fixed if you vote in your local and statewide elections. Governors and legislatures draw the maps that allows it.


and this:

The political groundwork has to be laid first. That means campaign finance reform, lobbyist reform, redistricting reform. That takes a lot of poison out of the well and opens up more honest discussion. Its the groundwork that has to be laid for a lot of political issues to be dealt with actually.

the next wave would be gaining grassroots support. That and winning a sizable chunk of the legislator and the presidency.

From there things become much easier. A pure gun ban isnt realistic but I do think some tough, strict regulations could be put in place coupled with new requirements to own a gun and feasibly a gun buy back program to reduce supply(similar to Australia's).

I think those are real, tangible ways to move the needle in the right direction. It puts strong oversight in place, reduces gun supply meaningfully and puts infrastructure in place to closely monitor and vet gun owners through licensing, training, evaluations and renewals.

 

[Jintor]

I see. So most college campuses in the US are not really enclosed inside gates and checkpoints. In addition to the gun laws which right now look like they really have to be reformed, maybe campus security should be improved as well. An armed individual shouldn't be able to go inside college buildings, labs, gyms, etc.

right, but at some point every building becomes a fortress because armed people shouldn't be able to go in any public space (true imho)

 

[Kozak]

Damn. I feel sorry for him after listening to that.

Running America must be such a headache.