That low, huh?
President Obama Is Pissed (Oregon Shooting Press Conference)
- Thread starter DrForester
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That low, huh?
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
I don't believe that's true. The motivation for serial killers is gratification while terrorism is to invoke fear and has a political agenda.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Well they don't necessarily have well defined boundaries. If you're a terrorist, assuming you've killed multiple people, you're also a serial killer and if you're a serial killer, sometimes your motivation is to terrorize. Besides, wouldn't you consider fulfilling a desire to spread fear gratification?
I think this just further prove how bad the US politics is more than anything else. Gutter_trash has been ace in the Canadian political thread here.
thereareliterallydozensofus.gif
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
You could make a valid case that the desire for attention some serial killers have could overlap with spreading fear. I think an important distinction is that serial killers have breaks between murders and often have a sexual aspect to it. You're right that the boundaries are not set, with some aspects overlapping, but in no way are they interchangeable.
When did I say terrorism is the exclusive domain of jihadists? I even said this guy is *probably* a terrorist. "The media" isn't pushing that idea either, I just cited a source that referred to this as a possible case of domestic terrorism.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Nahh, it's just him. Our system at it's most basic level is easy to understand. He just refuses to learn about it.
Legislative branch (Congress) - makes laws
Executive branch (President) - accepts/rejects laws
Judicial Branch (Supreme Court) - upholds/strikes down legality of laws
No.
This is the same terrible line of thinking that leads people to refer to any workplace shooting as terrorism, regardless of motivation or methedology.
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
That word loses its meaning when you call everyone a terrorist. We have a criminal justice system where, yes, motive ACTUALLY REALLY fucking matters
By definition you need a motive to be a terrorist.
"Appear intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination. or kidnapping;"
NullPointer
Member
Very true. Motive matters.
Am also not sure from early details whether common sense gun control measures could have prevented this. Is this man a hunter, and was he using a long rifle tailored to hunting?
I know Obama referred to an assault weapon, but so many politicians tend to look at anything that's not a pistol as an assault weapon, and overgeneralizing like that muddies the waters.
The Artisan
Member
He fired a fully-automatic weapon, I thought. Early reports indicated an AK47 either illegally sold as automatic or else illegally modified to be automatic. That's what people listening to the police scanner were saying in the other thread at least. Was that not accurate?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
language is actually pretty important for many people when it comes to laws and topics.
For instance, if you talk about climate change you're going to get a pretty even split about regulation (in the US). However, if you change the language and talk about "pollution" then the opinions shift because you're changing the language of the conversation, but not the actual end result or topic at hand.
NullPointer
Member
Don't know, and am trying to gather details myself. If it wasn't a hunting rifle that definitely changes things for me, and reasonable gun control would be right back on the table.
They did touch gun control though. Look at the Credit CARD act for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credit_CARD_Act_of_2009#Amendment_on_guns_in_national_parks
http://www.thetrace.org/2015/08/national-forests-parks-firearms-gun/
Fuck you Coburn, and everyone who voted yes on that amendment. (so fuck you Sanders on this one point
)I really don't think so. He is acting like the President has dictatorial powers and can wave his/her hand and magically get things done. There are plenty of things wrong with American politics, but I don't think the president not being a dictator is one of them.
You should seriously just stop
Your ideas lack political tact.
A lot of people say things like this. With no explanation on what exactly he can or is supposed to do. It's unfortunate, because it makes people have unfounded hate against c presidents, senators, etc without having any knowledge of what exactly would be different if someone else was in his position. Because they have no idea what people can actually do in these positions
It's really the weakness of politics as a whole. No one really understands how things work and have no clue what people can ACTUALLY do when elected
PhoenixDark
Banned
Obama was never going to achieve anything on guns, the opposition is too firm. Nor do I believe Hillary would have, although I certainly believe she's an actual fighter and would not have wasted time attempting to compromise with people who literally hate her.
The proposed assault weapons ban ensured Obama wasn't going to win this. Maybe some type of background check plan could have passed but I doubt it. Ultimately the problem is that the people who truly care about gun issues are conservatives. Every few years liberals whip out push polls that allegedly show most people are serious about wanting gun laws passed but when it comes time to vote it never materializes. There may be a lot of people who support gun control but they do not vote based on that; it's a side issue for them.
Gun control isn't going to stop the majority of mass shooting cases. However you can cut gun violence by targeting gun trafficking and straw purchases which flood weapons into inner cities. That's where the focus should be, if the goal is to decrease gun violence.
The proposed assault weapons ban ensured Obama wasn't going to win this. Maybe some type of background check plan could have passed but I doubt it. Ultimately the problem is that the people who truly care about gun issues are conservatives. Every few years liberals whip out push polls that allegedly show most people are serious about wanting gun laws passed but when it comes time to vote it never materializes. There may be a lot of people who support gun control but they do not vote based on that; it's a side issue for them.
Gun control isn't going to stop the majority of mass shooting cases. However you can cut gun violence by targeting gun trafficking and straw purchases which flood weapons into inner cities. That's where the focus should be, if the goal is to decrease gun violence.
Please be a teenager that is just too young to understand how things work in this country and not some willfully ignorant adult pretending that a president can do whatever he wants like a goddamned game of sim city or something.
BioID on every gun. Required gun license.
That's all we need. It's sad it won't ever happen. Let people own assault rifles. It's fine as long as we require these two things imho.
Sorry if this has already been pointed out, but every state in the US requires a test and license to operate a moving vehicle. Why the hell would we not require such a basic level of competence for operating a device that can kill people in a fraction of a second? There are epic levels of irrationality at play here.
no, the executive branch enforces laws, by its classic definition
yes, the president can veto a law ("rejecting" it) although the Congress still can pass it, it just needs a larger majority to do so.
also, the president can legislate in a way through executive actions, and the Supreme Court can legislate in a way by issuing rulings that change the way laws work (like striking down gay marriage bans).
AuthenticM
Member
kame-sennin
Member
This is cowardly thinking. It's always election season in America.
PhantomZone
Member
Politicians should unite and make headway into doing something about this. Americans love their guns as much as Australian's love their food :-/.
UnemployedVillain
Member
I did say BASIC
kame-sennin
Member
But that's not the goal. White liberals are only concerned about stopping these horrific - but rare - mass shootings where white people actually get killed. The daily murder of people of color using handguns, which is the actual source of our terrible gun violence rate, almost never makes national news. Of course, liberals will still use these stats to make their arguments on gun control. Unfortunately, the only solution they present is banning Ar-15s which kill almost no one while leaving hand guns alone - even though they kill thousands - because they're "legitimate self-defense weapons".
It's very similar to the sudden panic over heroin now that white people are using and overdosing on it en masse. There's a sudden rush to pass rational drug laws because white deaths actually matter.
That is really unfair. Humans are wired to overemphasize and focus on the rare and shocking outliers and not talk about the commonplace because rare and shocking outliers are rare and shocking while the commonplace is commonplace. It isnt because all white people are racists.
As for your suggestions, how exactly is this stuff supposed to be enacted? How can anyone stop illegal gun trafficking between states? Moreover, how do you expect to ban hand guns when I am pretty sure you can't ban hand guns thanks to the Supreme Court? (someone might want to check that).
What liberal proposals about gun control - closing loopholes, banning assualt rifles, etc. are in the realm of political plausibility. Anything bigger isnt. Anything bigger is going to happen in local elections, and even if it does happen there, they are going to run into the insane difficulty of keeping illegal guns outside of their city or state because of the free movement of goods and people between states.
Again, at least in this instance, liberal proposals are motivated by the politically plausible, not because all white people don't care about black people.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Obama already gave the blueprint. You can't fight harder than the NRA, but you gotta care more than the others.
ThisGuy
Member
This is how I feel as well. I usually say liberals though.
StarCreator
Member
So, how about when a white male shoots a waitress in the head because she asked him not to smoke in the restaurant? Think this one will make news?
PhoenixDark
Banned
......what exactly can he do? Nothing.
gutter_trash
Banned
Getting into semantics of types of firearms only benifits the gun nuts.
I want a ban on all guns. Absolute
Not saying the political system is bad. Rather, Americans vote in insane people who make it impossible for anything good to get done reasonably. It's like a portion of people actively don't want to accept scientifically conclusive results sometimes. For example, back in the 90's, Taiwan sent out a team of researchers to study other country's healthcare system in order to make up their own healthcare system. The team came back with data and put together a comprehensive plan that works well for the people of Taiwan and is loved by its citizens. USA, on the other hand, don't seem to want to do something like that and are shouting out nonsense. Same can be said about gun violence in the USA and many other topics. It's so very disappointing.
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