Big Boss setup the whole Outer Heaven thingie, he sent Solid Snake there to rescue (Frank Jaeger)Gray Fox, but didn't think he would succeed due to being a rookie. So he sent Venom as well and Solid Snake ended up killing Venom thinking he was the real Big Boss.
SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Big Boss setup the whole Outer Heaven thingie, he sent Solid Snake there to rescue (Frank Jaeger)Gray Fox, but didn't think he would succeed due to being a rookie. So he sent Venom as well and Solid Snake ended up killing Venom thinking he was the real Big Boss.
usp84
Member
Yeah so Phantom Boss went from smiling at the end of V to punching a mirror right before Solid kills him.
Maybe you need to invade 10,000 FOBs, dismantle 5,000 nukes and defend successfully 30,000 times or something.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
My interpretation is that the real big boss started the Ntrude mission and he decided inform venom about it with that tape.
Something like:"hey pal,i'm sending a spy to outer heaven to keep appearances but don't worry he is a rookie,he won't make it..." and you know what happens next.
I agree with this interpretation, the real Big initiated the mission and gave Venom the heads up. The real Big probably assumed Snake would fail, maybe Venom was pissed he was being used to kill a young soldier who got in over his head, or possibly Venom knew that Solid was effectively his son and resented the kill order.
Both Solid and Venom were victims of Big Boss and his ambitions, only Solid managed to forge his own identity.
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
Jesus. >_>
I mean after how cryptic and crazy with what they did with PT, there might something in there right?!?!
Your Phantom Pain. lol
It all makes sense now, great read
FantasticMrFoxdie
Mumber
I wonder if Big Boss was watching all of MG1 go down from afar.
What a fucking ass.
Pitting his Son vs. a soldier that was forced into becoming his pawn in a fight to the death.
What a monster.
Yup. There's also that moment when you first see the AI pod in Huey's Lab and the Boss' AI says "You're not Snake"
What a fucking ass.
Pitting his Son vs. a soldier that was forced into becoming his pawn in a fight to the death.
What a monster.
Yup. There's also that moment when you first see the AI pod in Huey's Lab and the Boss' AI says "You're not Snake"
Unknown One
Member
You forgot an old man who has photosynthesis and can talk to the forest.
Your gripes are very similar to mines. I like how a lot of people wanted explanations for Vamp yet now complain that The Cobra's supernatural powers are explained.
BossDarkseid
Member
They're still clones of the One True Big Boss.
Before release when things were spoiled people assumed it's because Solidus was the only perfect clone of Big Boss or something similar.
Scott32020
Member
But they aren't clones though.
This is my favorite part about the whole twist. It demonstrates what a coward Big Boss was, illustrates his hypocrisy and egomania better than if we'd ever actually played as him. I take a lot of issue with Chapter 2 as a whole, but the twist itself is great.
FranXico
Member
There's a theory going around that Chapter 3 can only be unlocked by everybody disposing of their nukes. Literally, everybody across the world who has an FOB and plays in the same gaming network as you. "Chapter 2: Race" would actually be referring to the Arms Race, and therefore it would make sense that "Chapter 3: Peace" would result from letting go of nuclear weapons.
If true, this would truly be a first on any game (single or multiplayer) and pretty much unprecedented. It would also be driving home the message from Peace Walker: that peace is an impossible dream.
That was pretty smart tbh if you played mgs4 you already knew the answer about why their genetic pattern didn't match but nope,it's because venom is not the real boss.
It was a neat and subtle way of foreshadowing.
On the very first point here I think you've gone wrong. IIRC Kojima is on record saying he fully planned on MGS5 being a full console game and then he was told to push it to PSP because that was the new SCE figurehead. It was always planned on being a full console game in his mind but he had to make it for PSP. So MGSV is more like probably what we would have had years ago if Sony hadn't pushed this.
This is my theory as well... now my phantom pain is either waiting to see if this rumor is true, or just simply watch the chapter 3 documentary on youtube....
I can't deal with this.
Heidecker pls
I'm in the same boat and I'm trying to switch my brain off from all this Chapter 3 stuff... But it's so tempting
Wait, did I just...
Did I just die?
FranXico
Member
Quietception.
Oldest Snake
Member
Quiet breeds Quiet, but in the end it has to be this way!
I'm never disarming my nuke. Because I'm the villain Big Boss should have been.
Oh wow.
Mind.blown..if something like this happens.
This is strangely more narratively compelling to watch than the actual thing
The thing is, wouldn't have people found missions or stuff like that while datamining?
Yep. Like I said before, MGSV shows us Big Boss's "atomic bombing of Hiroshima" moment, where in his eyes, the "ends justify the means." He compromises his values -- to never use a fellow soldier for personal gain -- and he does so out of selfish ambition and hypocritical cowardice. The GZ incident got to him and made him realize he's not invincible, so now he's willing to go along with a plan to sacrifice others (Venom, the Diamond Dogs, even the hospital at Cyprus), just to protect himself. And since we play as Venom, the victim affected by all of this, it feels much more personal than if we were playing as BB himself.
More importantly, it makes BB no better than the men that sent The Boss to die 20 years prior
Surprised there hasn't been an internet movement to get everyone to disarm.
Saw something online that suggested that the magic number was 60000 disarmed nukes due to a screen from MGS1 that said something along the lines of "there were 60000 active nuclear warheads in the 1980s"
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
But why? He was already pretty amoral, but how did he go from Peace Walker and Santa Claus to a devious master of keikaku?
Exactly.
I think this game delivered on its promise of showing us the moment where BB "breaks bad." It just wasn't the Darth Vader-style heel turn we expected. And in a novel twist, we experience it from the viewpoint of the person being hurt, rather than the person inflicting the pain.
If ch.3 exists it will be downloadable content. The amount of people playing the game for the past month especially on pc would mean whatever they had hidden would be known by now. Kojipro would have to be way too clever to make it work. Not even Kojima is capable of pulling such a stunt.
I do like how they said "keep playing" tho. But they are probably just trolling lol.
I do like how they said "keep playing" tho. But they are probably just trolling lol.
They should have left the completion counter at 94% or something, after seemingly having done everything.... "just keep playing".
That would be very fucking clever indeed.
Alex_Mexico
Member
I agree.
I would've never seen the twist coming if it wasn't because Kojima made it so fucking obvious by showing there was a third injured person IN THE REVEAL TRAILER where Miller asks "what about him?".
Also giving the Medic the same voice as Keifer during GZ was a dead giveaway. I didn't know what exactly was going to be the twist but Kojima telegraphed me ever since 2013 something was off and strange with this Venom Snake and, yes, one of my theories was that this wasn't the real Big Boss.
The "choose your avatar" part at the beginning of the game was handled terribly too. They could've made this less obvious.
The twist by itself wasn't a bad idea. Kojima's execution of it went from okay to just plain bad. The fact that the game's biggest twist many of us already suspected about since the proper first trailer of the game 2.5 years ago tells me it was handled terribly.
Oh and Kojima's direction of Quiet is beyond bad. But that topic has been discussed ad nauseam here already but suffice to say: I agree. He had a great opportunity on his hands with her and he fucked it up.
But we saw that moment in PW, when he created a military nation state complete with giant robot and nuke.
On an unrelated note, the fact that my black avatar got changed into a rugged white dude is actually really off-putting to me for some reason.
That wasn't a nation but more of an army, which he lost in the span of less than a night.
That's actually part of the game's groundbreaking exploration of race. A man of any ethnicity has the potential to be Big Boss' equal, but it's only after they're surgically altered to be indistinguishable from a middle-aged, bearded white guy that they're accepted as a protagonist. This genius meta-commentary also absolves Kojima the responsibility of including any notable black or Middle-Eastern characters in a game set in Angola and Afghanistan.
This was honestly the easiest thing for me to extrapolate about the entire ending the first time I saw it but instead of "finding out" what he has to do I just saw it as him reacting in the moment of Snake already infiltrating Outer Heaven due to the time skip. Knowing that still didn't make it any more satisfying. The sequence in it's entirety belongs to a wholly different game where the buildup makes sense.
Regardless, while a decent write up, much of it honestly looks like it's making sense of a poorly told story that didn't need to be told to begin with. I still feel like the way MGS3 left us off with was enough for the player to interpret what happens from them on just fine, but instead everything since then has been dictating new scenarios that ask for specific interpretations alongside it. That's what bothers me so much about this game choosing to set itself up the way it was when MGS3 still left off on an ambiguous note that was wholly satisfying, while MGSV... isn't. I don't really see the game's story being appreciated more for what it is at all.
Stereogatari
Banned
Exactly. Which is why we truly did see him turn evil, despite so many people being upset that we didn't.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
But we didn't see him turn evil. We saw him abruptly act conniving and evil. We didn't see any sort of turn.
This, it was done in a way where you have to think about the ending and the series as a whole to make the connection.
Instead of having it spelled out for you like with Huey.
Inferno313
Banned
He slowly turns over the course of Peace Walker, and Ground Zeroes is the straw that breaks the camel's back.
It's not an abrupt change. It's the start of a longer transformation, and it's all we need to know that there's no stopping this train.
After what happened in GZ, Big Boss finally feels vulnerable. When presented with a plan to take the heat off himself so he can further his goals, he doesn't resist it... In the past he would have at least questioned it. He's starting to throw people under the bus to advance his own agenda.
It's a step well beyond harboring a nuke for deterrence. Now we're in straight-up "government killing The Boss" territory, something BB swore to disavow.
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