Thanks.
I've listened to the truth tapes.
Are the FOB nukes video unlock-able from the game itself?
SPOILER: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread | Such a lust for conclusion, T-WHHOOOO
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Thanks.
I've listened to the truth tapes.
Are the FOB nukes video unlock-able from the game itself?
This is kind of crazy, because you can only see that part of the game once. When you replay the prologue, it starts after that point.
In other words, if you're not specifically looking to the left the first time you play the game, you won't even see a hint of Ishmael spying on you. To think he was standing there the whole time, and they even animated him slipping back into bed and pretending to sleep when the nurse arrives.
Crazy attention to detail.
Inferno313
Banned
Crazy Theory:
The left that line in the timeline but took out the mission because Kojima wanted to set up the next game for his team to handle without him.
Metal Gear Liquid.
Late 80s / Early 90s.
Play as Liquid.
Build up your "Kingdom of the Flies."
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
I don't remember, but when you wake up and pan the camera left, do you see ishmael's silhouette from the curtain ?
If someone can verify this maybe that's why the model is jumping around, otherwise that's WAY to much detail especially for a place the player can't even see without modding.
Haunted
Member
Obviously, yes. It's part of the official timeline and canon.
We don't actually know whether it was cut for deadline reasons, budgetary reasons or artistic reasons (so much ends up on the cutting floor during years of AAA development), but given that the events presented in it are part of the official timeline and it doesn't feel like anything in it was presented differently or replaced in the final game, I'm going with "they wanted to include it but didn't manage to finish it in time".
That said, it's not a huge deal either way, as it would only have been a conclusion of Eli's side story in MGSV and further bridge between MGSV and MGS. Nothing meaningful.
Maybe the detail is there because they constructed the scene and were originally going to shoot it a different way, only to end up moving the camera inside Venom's head with a heavy haze as he wakes up.
Haunted
Member
That's pretty cool, especially the custom bed animation. I assume this was meant to be viewable in Mission 46, but they didn't manage to finish it.
There is literally no way that the initial draft for Mission 46, the final ending of Kojima's last Metal Gear game and the TRUTH behind Venom's identity was intended from the start to be a cobbled together repeat of the prologue, along with all the tutorial prompts and shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMha13rHS9g
Well I'll be damned, this is why Episode 51 and the whole experience stings, there is a ton of finished stuff that goes nowhere.
Well I'll be damned, this is why Episode 51 and the whole experience stings, there is a ton of finished stuff that goes nowhere.
Freedom = $1.05
Banned
no one knows how it unlocks but supposedly it will require that your FOB server be free of nukes. So if that's the case, it'll never happen naturally
That is so interesting.
I think maybe things were supposed to be presented very differently the second time we're at the hospital, there's just no way these details are there for no reason. They probably had no time to finish off 'hospital take two' and just did a copy pasta with all the tutorial instructions left in.
GreyOcelot
Member
Yeah, they very clearly wanted something more elaborate there
Has anyone posted that timeline? It caught me off guard and scrolled by too fast.
If there is one sequence that they worked on extremely carefully it's that hospital one, doubt there's more to it.
They put a ton of detail into that sequence overall. Remember how internet detectives were deciphering stuff based on what was on the walls and found the location of the hospital as being in Cyprus?
They put a ton of detail into that sequence overall. Remember how internet detectives were deciphering stuff based on what was on the walls and found the location of the hospital as being in Cyprus?
KyanMehwulfe
Member
i always thought it was odd how when he has the face bandage, it's not covering his upper lip and there's just bare skin there, but then the next scene with it off, he has a mustache.
and that they take their sweet time lighting up a smoke and staring at a bike, while XOF and the Man on Fire are approaching and almost capture Venom.... seems kind of... not urgent when you consider it's right before fire whale and fire horse chase
and that they take their sweet time lighting up a smoke and staring at a bike, while XOF and the Man on Fire are approaching and almost capture Venom.... seems kind of... not urgent when you consider it's right before fire whale and fire horse chase
Does make me wonder if Episode 46 was originally supposed to be viewed from the real Big Boss' perspective.
That would've been cool. AT least it would change how the segment was played, and not just redo the WHOLE prologue that you played before the same way.
Valkyri von Thanatos
Member
Lol, if you check the time they display, it actually takes place after Ocelot escorts Venom to the ship. It's like three hours later, just so they can have the shot of dawn. It makes no sense that Ocelot pulls BB out of the wreck, let's him hide in a box at the bridge down the road, keeps the motorcycle hidden as well, then comes back for Venom, brings him to the boat, then what, comes back to Big Boss a few hours later? So did he hypnotize himself on their "urgent journey" to save Miller? So much for being short on time, Ocelot had enough time to just fuck around with BB for a few hours while Kaz suffers, wonder if Ocelot told Kaz that just to piss him off lol!
Also, the rain stops before Ocelot leaves, which means that the MoF should be back in action to try to kill BB/Venom. Where is Mantis at this time!? Just another example of hacky writing for Kojima's convenience.
You don't see the beard or bad eye because Ishmael is wearing a face-mask with working eyes and mouth. Just like Kojima did when he played us like a fiddle:
petethepanda
Member
So I've started mission 46 (eyes closed in here for now), and I hardly even know how to react. The final third of the game has been some of the most blatant padding I've ever encountered, and now even the fucking final story mission is a copy/paste job of the first mission (assumedly with more changes the deeper it gets)? I don't even.
Welcome to the spoiler thread. Grab a chair. We'll guide you through the steps to overcome this magum opah of a game that Kojima delivered.
The game doesn't get any deeper than that.
but our anger, and regret, and disappointment goes deeper. All for the lust for a good MGS game.You poor, naive soul.
Serpens007
Member
I think that even with mission 51 the thing would have been unfinished. At least in this episode, Venom starts to have flahsbacks and hallucinations, so that could be the begining a thing leading to a full flashback in the prologue and then a fucking jump to 1995, making TPP a full flashback. Or something like that, I don't know.
Or a crazy idea strucked me. Perhaps the ending wasn't mission 46, and the idea was to find the "truth" by starting a 2nd playthrough. That would have been awesome. But then maybe someone said that is a terrible idea because the game is so long and nobody would play again and shit.
The changes are minimal and limited to stuff like the doc's dialogue at the beginning, and an alternate version of the ending.
Gameplay-wise, Ch. 2 is like bonus content after Ch. 1. Story-wise, it's like a short story collection. It might've been better to call it "Epilogue."
Roni
Member
Why would you do something like that?
I really doubt that, even as an epilogue it doesn't do the job.
I think there would be less outrage because a lot less people would have ended up playing it. If they still ended up playing it, they'd probably enjoy it just as much/as little as they did now.
It'd feel appropriate, IMO. Epilogues often take the form of vignettes that resolve lingering issues or conclude character arcs. Which is exactly what Ch. 2 does.
Although I'm fine with Ch. 2 being called Ch. 2. I see it as a short story collection of how life went on at Mother Base after they had their revenge. A string of tragic events and betrayals colored by a lack of fulfillment. Should've called it "Peace," the original Ch. 3 title, since that seems to be what they want but can't attain.
If anything, Mission 46 would then be the epilogue, with its mirror scene set some time after everything else.
SJRB
Gold Member
Yes, because
- Prologue
- Chapter 1
- Epilogue
makes way more sense. Instead of a garbage paced chapter 2 we would've gotten a garbage paced epilogue. Besides, for something to be an epilogue it actually has to be a, you know, epilogue. You can't just slap a name on the most random collection of missions and call it an epilogue.
You know what, I think that would have gone a long way just calling it Epilogue, but then chapter 1 has to be called something else, along with some mission restructuring.
Wait, no one said you couldn't divide Ch. 1.
Here's what I prescribe:
- Prologue
- Act 1 (Missions 1-12)
- Act 2 (Missions 13-20)
- Act 3 (Missions 21-31)
- Epilogue
The story of Ch. 1 actually breaks perfectly along that three-act structure.
I think it isn't appropriate at all because it has at least one major arc that isn't concluded as well as the 'Eyes on Kazuhira' that Code Talker eludes to which goes literally nowhere.
The problem isn't people's perception of the title Chapter 2, rather the issue is Chapter 2 is full of padded content, repeated missions, zero build up to the conclusion with an unsatisfying "ending" which makes you crawl through the hospital prologue all over again with all the tutorial prompts. Imagining Chapter 2 as an Epilogue wouldn't suddenly make all those problems go away. If it was called Epilogue people would still be complaining about the content, and rightfully so imo.
You could divide Ch. 1 into three acts for a stronger sense of momentum and a more defined "shape."
Act 1 -- Missions 1-12 -- Big Boss returns to the world to rebuild his army, base and legend, while developing leads on Cipher in Afghanistan. Introduces D-Horse, DD and Quiet. Fight the Skulls twice. Ends with the discovery of Sahelanthropus, and the rumor of "a weapon to surpass Metal Gear."
Act 2 -- Missions 13-20 -- The Diamond Dogs turn to Africa and begin to uncover a conspiracy involving parasites and yellowcake. Begins and ends with the discovery of invalids, first at the oilfield and then again at the Devil's House. Introduces D-Walker. Introduces the armor Skulls. Ends with the battle against the Man on Fire.
Act 3 -- Missions 21-31 -- Snake continues to search Africa and Afghanistan, capturing Eli and battling the Sniper Skulls. He extracts Code Talker and uncovers Skull Face's plans. He confronts Skull Face and defeats Sahelanthropus.
Then you would go into Ch. 2, which would be renamed "Epilogue." All of the repeat missions would be saved for NG+. Instead, the new story missions would be called "Epilogue 01," "Epilogue 02," etc. You'd also include a few of the important side ops, like the one where you retrieve the Man on Fire's body or the A.I. pod.
And of course you'd have the prologue at the start.
A note about "Eyes on Kazuhira" -- Code Talker is saying to keep a close eye on Kazuhira. Probably referring to his paranoia.
Act 1 -- Missions 1-12 -- Big Boss returns to the world to rebuild his army, base and legend, while developing leads on Cipher in Afghanistan. Introduces D-Horse, DD and Quiet. Fight the Skulls twice. Ends with the discovery of Sahelanthropus, and the rumor of "a weapon to surpass Metal Gear."
Act 2 -- Missions 13-20 -- The Diamond Dogs turn to Africa and begin to uncover a conspiracy involving parasites and yellowcake. Begins and ends with the discovery of invalids, first at the oilfield and then again at the Devil's House. Introduces D-Walker. Introduces the armor Skulls. Ends with the battle against the Man on Fire.
Act 3 -- Missions 21-31 -- Snake continues to search Africa and Afghanistan, capturing Eli and battling the Sniper Skulls. He extracts Code Talker and uncovers Skull Face's plans. He confronts Skull Face and defeats Sahelanthropus.
Then you would go into Ch. 2, which would be renamed "Epilogue." All of the repeat missions would be saved for NG+. Instead, the new story missions would be called "Epilogue 01," "Epilogue 02," etc. You'd also include a few of the important side ops, like the one where you retrieve the Man on Fire's body or the A.I. pod.
And of course you'd have the prologue at the start.
A note about "Eyes on Kazuhira" -- Code Talker is saying to keep a close eye on Kazuhira. Probably referring to his paranoia.
Roni
Member
Saying you don't like the game is one thing, the minute you start throwing absolutes such as "this game doesn't make sense" I'm going to start asking for some examples.
So, examples?
I just got the Truth tapes and now I'm even more lost than I was an hour ago! Not because of the body double thing (that was hinted at in the prologue), but instead from Skull Faces motivation to attack Snake. I get that he hated Zero for a number of reasons, but the only connection to Snake is doing the XOF secret work on operation Snake Eater.
Now, I was willing to just take that as bad writing (Snake didn't have any idea about XOF, so why try to get revenge on him?), but then Skull Face actually acknowledges that Snake didn't know about XOF, and that he has no reason to hate him (in the Paz interrogation tape), and instead that he'll just attack him anyway. So.... why exactly does he blow up MSF?
Now, I was willing to just take that as bad writing (Snake didn't have any idea about XOF, so why try to get revenge on him?), but then Skull Face actually acknowledges that Snake didn't know about XOF, and that he has no reason to hate him (in the Paz interrogation tape), and instead that he'll just attack him anyway. So.... why exactly does he blow up MSF?
He happened to be in the same place where I was discussing the plot with another coworker that doesnt really give a fuck about the plot. I honestly didnt knew he plays MGS too.
tl;dr; Was my bad, I regret nothing.
Explain Skull man's jeep ride and the awkward commercial break with Sins of the Father.
Roni
Member
Ah, I see now. At first, I had gotten the feeling you did it deliberately. Like, you knew he liked MGS, you knew he was antecipating MGSV and you just came up to him and told him the twist.
I will, soon as you rip through the double standard and explain to me the ladder scene in Snake Eater.
GreyOcelot
Member
the jeep ride had been in the game for months though. it's in the e3 trailer isn't it? surely if it wasn't planned kojima would have come up with something else
What about it? Skull Face explaining his plans while Big Boss plans his next move, followed by a song about the hypocrisy of well-meaning madmen like the guys in the jeep?
Totally agree the delivery is awkward, but the content is fine. And I much prefer retaining control to watching a PowerPoint presentation.
Kevin Shields
Member
People have played with reflex off. Is it balanced well, is it tense or is it just cheap?
CriterionDog
Member
after rescuing a specialist and blueprint can I just leave the mission? Or do I have to complete it to obtain it? I'm nervous about leaving the mission. lol
SJRB
Gold Member
Be sure you've gotten the "extracted: 1 prisoner" message and the game saved before leaving.
Super Bunnyhop already explained why this comparison doesn't work. In MGS3 the ladder sequence is a subtle tone-shifting intermission. The jeep ride in MGSV on the other hand is an interruption that has the song placed in between a one-sided conversation that immediately picks back up after the song is over. It doesn't work and it's awkwardly placed.
Besides, countering a point with an unrelated point to another game doesn't really answer it in the context of it's own scene.
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