Tezzeractor
Member
So why is it possible to save Lisa, the blue bird and the birds nest? Did anyone do all of those things? Was it all pointless like every other choice in this game?
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Life is Strange | Spoiler Thread
- Thread starter Dr. Buni
- Start date
John Kowalski
Banned
I had a conversation with her after the first flash back in the dark room where she wasn't under the influence of the drug and she was very regretful of her life! Kept saying that she wanted to see Kate and all.
AWizardDidIt
Member
Life Is Pointless.
Same here. She was awake but not very helpful. Crying and apologizing and yelling she's too young to die.
Second time in the dark room she's not there and Jefferson says he killed her already.
But if we're sticking with the point of symbolism, then the snow is one too. If to you the deer represent the spirits being "freed," it could mean also mean that Arcadia Bay has been "cleansed" of the wrongdoings that they suffered because of the town (they could represent Rachel and Nathan).
Are you saying that the snow in that ending holds no meaning and happens just because?
That's the point of difference that we were talking about. I was nice to Victoria the whole time and successfully warned her about Nathan, causing her to appear in the Dark Room, but I couldn't talk to her.
This might be what the point of contention is... but I don't remember ever seeing Victoria on the floor again after the first Dark Room scene. And she was just mumbling nothingness during the first scene; nothing coherent.
I don't think you paid any attention if you thought choices in this game were pointless.
Tezzeractor
Member
Well, only one choice makes a difference.
You completely missed the point of the game. All of the things you did still happened to Max.
Only one choice makes a difference in the last ten or so minutes of the game, sure.
Tezzeractor
Member
I dunno you guys. I just wanted my choices to have more impact. I understand that would be difficult from a development perspective, but I don't feel like this game was much different than the Telltale model.
The nosebleeds were clearly from using the powers too much.
The blackout and the nightmare sequence are the culmination of that.
Your choices affect a ton of things throughout Episode 5, just not the final scene. But just because the final scene doesn't change (aside from the potential kiss) doesn't mean your choices haven't been constantly shaping your story from Episode 1. The final scene focuses on the end of the Chloe arc, but there are a ton of other subplots that change dramatically based on how you play - they just happen not to be the focus of the finale.
Then LiS probably just wasn't the game for you, since it seems you were looking for huge changes from your decisions. LiS, by design, is more grounded and the impact of one's decisions are frequent, yet subtle. I felt I had more say in how characters saw each other and on the unfolding of events in Life is Strange than The Walking Dead or The Wolf Among Us.
We're here discussing right now why some people had Victoria talking in the Dark Room and others didn't. That kind of stuff was based on decisions individual players made.
truestatic
Member
Just because a choice doesn't have direct consequences for the player or the outcome doesn't mean it's meaningless. Decisions without concrete consequences make the game more real, less like pulling levers to make a thing happen. They let you define your character through the things you do, even if the only reward is the good feeling of having done a thing.
Tezzeractor
Member
Well, I'm still curious about watering Lisa, saving the blue bird and the nest. Are those just for flavor or do they have a more concrete result?
I actually didn't see any snow in the end, but I might've just missed it. Couldn't the snow just be related to the actual storm/disappearance of the storm?
Also if I were in Max's shoes, I think I rather not have had the power and experienced those things at all, not gonna lie. Now she'll live with "I could've saved her" for the rest of her life? Possibly seeing Kate kill herself? Being near-murdered herself? Having to kill Chloe herself/seeing her paralyzed? Letting William die again? All that just for ONE extra week with Chloe? Not worth it.
Not to mention Chloe died without ever having that experience herself OR knowing what happened to Rachel, she just gets murdered. Joyce and David never got to see her change for the better, David never becomes a better step-father, etc. And David is still alive in the sacrifice AB ending anyway, and the fact that Chloe DOES call him step-father and not step-douche has potential for them reuniting too.
It's not the Canon ending, but it's the one that's MUCH more stomachable to me and makes much more sense unless the lesson from the game is to be "life is cruel". This way there at least was a point and she managed to save Chloe. I'm sure Rachel would've much rather seen Chloe live and be happy than have her die, too.
As far as I know those minor choices are just for flavor (and sometimes photo ops).
I'm kind of interested in discussing the role of choice in LIS as compared to that in SOMA, because they both take a similar approach in a lot of ways. SOMA is even less focused on direct consequences for your actions though, and while I think a lot of people disliked that I personally appreciated the fact that not every choice you make comes back to affect you in some clear way - such a straightforward cause-and-effect system just isn't realistic. It's more about making a choice in the moment and just having to move on knowing you did what you did, rather than trying to make the choice that will give you the "better ending" or whatever.
I doubt Rachel would have sacrificed the rest of the world for Chloe. I doubt anyone would sacrifice the world for anyone.
The snow: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpx0JFNmfG4&feature=youtu.be&t=8m42s
It's not related to the passing storm because the snow only starts falling as Max and Chloe leave Arcadia Bay, not before. It's meant to be symbolic, or else it wouldn't just start falling as the scene fades out.
Again, I can't interpret the falling snow any other way than the obvious, even though it's a subtle touch itself (since people missed it, after all). The only other meaning snow had in this game was to explicitly show that things were becoming unnatural at the end of episode 1, and that a disaster was coming. Having the same happen at the end of the final episode? It's 100% evident.
Tezzeractor
Member
At least we got conclusion to the cat pix story!To be honest I was surprised Lisa didn't text me.
rest of the world? The storm only affected Acadia Bay though
I have to think about the snow, yeah. Mhmmm. Still don't think it's 100% evident of anything, same as the doe. I mean, saying "the doe are just random" says the same as "the snow is just random", so there's gotta be something with both things or neither thing.
Watching let's plays like the giant bomb and other misc stuff of this is a great way of healing withdrawal. Such a weird feeling. I can play this whenever but thats not even the thing about it. More just the feeling of watching the characters discover new things and its gone now, but watching other people have their reactions is pretty satisfying.
And it will keep happening everywhere they try to run.
There's another game out there where someone does basically sacrifice the entire world for one person. I don't know how to say what game it is without spoiling the ending for people who haven't played it. So if you know what game I'm talking about... yeah, there's that.
Wait what???
Not to mention the universe/death is going to keep trying to kill Chloe a la Final Destination until she dies. Have fun, Mad Max!
again, debatable. The only hint for that is snow falling at the end. That's hardly conclusive. That's why I wish that ending would've been more fleshed out. Given that there's no obvious reasons why Max got the powers in the first place ("to get another week with Chloe and find peace in her dying" is a terrible explanation, as she would've arguably been more at peace never having gotten those powers in the first place), it's hard to speculate whether the town being destroyed wouldn't have also "sufficed" to end the curse, so to speak.
One way to avoid the storm is to kill Chloe, but suffering through the storm is also letting the consequences play out.
I think I know what game you're talking about, but that is a completely different circumstance. In that there's no reason to believe that killing you know who will save the world when you take into account who's trying to kill her.
Well, that's what I was saying. The doe could represent the town being cleansed and the spirits being freed like you were saying, while the snow could represent the universe still trying to correct itself as Chloe isn't dead, and will continue to until she dies. They both work.
It's not just the snow; that's what the game leads us to believe up until the ending. From the alternate timeline where Chloe is handicapped, to all the other close calls she had. It won't stop just because Arcadia Bay is ruined.
My theory was always that Max will need to constantly protect Chloe after that ending using her powers, because Chloe will continue to die. I was saying as much a lot earlier in this thread. Upon being shown the snow, though, it's pretty much clear to me now and not just a vague idea.
Sacrificing Arcadia Bay means that Max could not let go. The game's world won't reward that; it will punish it. And Max will continue not letting go.
Neither is that the case in this game. Nothing else has avoided the storm, so it's not like it's guaranteed that letting Chloe die would.
Yeah, agreed. We'l never know, though, since the ending sadly wasn't so fleshed out - though maybe it's better this way. Let everyone individually explain their own ending/what happens is nice, too. Truly "choose your own adventure"
Lisa...coincidence???
Tezzeractor
Member
Right after a D4 mash up on the plane, where David Young makes an outburst about how he's not on a flight to Boston.
That nightmare was some Silent Hill shit.
You know what's stupid? given how near-perfect the San Francisco timeline was, all it would've taken was when she texted David, to also text Chloe and Warren and Joyce and whoever else to get the fuck out of Acadia Bay for that specific weekend. Yes, the city still gets destroyed but she gets to be a successful photographer and everyone is safe.
(Assuming the universe doesn't continue to try and kill Chloe afterwards, obviously)
(Assuming the universe doesn't continue to try and kill Chloe afterwards, obviously)
Temporal Mess
Neo Member
Was I the only one disappointed that it was confirmed that the superstorm only affected Arcadia Bay? There was a lot of stuff going into hinting/foreshadowing that it was the actual end of the world and then you get to San Francisco and everything's fine there. :/ Was I just picking up on foreshadowing that wasn't actually there.
Tezzeractor
Member
There's a note on the ground on your way to the diner that explains the mystery of the missing tablet. Surprisingly deep revalation.
It's heavily implied that this will keep continuing until Chloe is dead and thus chase her wherever she goes. You were picking up on clues that were there.
I posted about the same thing earlier.
Until I played Episode 5, I was 100% convinced that a global apocalypse was incoming. The two moons at the end of Episode 4 sealed the deal. Honest-to-god end of the world. It made the decision to sacrifice Chloe pretty easy even through it made me miserable.
..but I guess it was just affecting Arcadia Bay.
The sacrifice ending is still the way to go but I liked it more when the stakes were higher.
Just finished it. The Nightmare section is absolutely amazing, hands down my favorite part of the entire game. This is what I wanted all along! Thank you, Dontnod!
The ending itself was decent, I guess it was a bit hurt by all the months of speculation and headcanons. Everyone saw it coming, but everyone's version of it was better than the way it actually is. I liked that theory about saving Chloe putting you back to the first day again, and you'd only get "the true ending" when you finally were able to let go. It's also a bit disappointing, though not this game's fault specifically, that to make such an impactful decision, you need to step out of the character's role for a bit. Realistically, no one would make such a choice in a binary way, no one would choose between Chloe and the city without first trying every single possibility. So many wildly different variables to mess with...
Overall, a damn good finale to a damn good game. I think I rank it 5 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 4. One of the best games of the year for sure.
I wish we would encounter Rachel during the Nightmare though, I really did.
Absolutely adore everything they did with the game's systems, the way they used the diary, the black lodge reverse talk bullshit, subverting the dialogue choices, the burned diary, the fucked up Max in the Dark Room diary, ugh, LOVE IT.
Which I guess also adds a bit to the disappointment of the very ending, the way they kept subverting your expectations on the way the game fundamentally works just made it more likely that they would go for an ending that actually in a way removes choice from a game that's all about choices.
The Save Chloe ending also wasn't nearly as satisfying as the save Arcadia Bay ending, after watching them both. It really was a tough decision to make though, I'll give them that. Stared at the screen for quite some time.
The ending itself was decent, I guess it was a bit hurt by all the months of speculation and headcanons. Everyone saw it coming, but everyone's version of it was better than the way it actually is. I liked that theory about saving Chloe putting you back to the first day again, and you'd only get "the true ending" when you finally were able to let go. It's also a bit disappointing, though not this game's fault specifically, that to make such an impactful decision, you need to step out of the character's role for a bit. Realistically, no one would make such a choice in a binary way, no one would choose between Chloe and the city without first trying every single possibility. So many wildly different variables to mess with...
Overall, a damn good finale to a damn good game. I think I rank it 5 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 4. One of the best games of the year for sure.
I wish we would encounter Rachel during the Nightmare though, I really did.
Absolutely adore everything they did with the game's systems, the way they used the diary, the black lodge reverse talk bullshit, subverting the dialogue choices, the burned diary, the fucked up Max in the Dark Room diary, ugh, LOVE IT.
Which I guess also adds a bit to the disappointment of the very ending, the way they kept subverting your expectations on the way the game fundamentally works just made it more likely that they would go for an ending that actually in a way removes choice from a game that's all about choices.
The Save Chloe ending also wasn't nearly as satisfying as the save Arcadia Bay ending, after watching them both. It really was a tough decision to make though, I'll give them that. Stared at the screen for quite some time.
Temporal Mess
Neo Member
I mean, I kind of like the idea that the universe is gonna keep going all Final Destination on Chloe's ass until Max finally sacrifices her or the world is literally destroyed. But up until the San Francisco thing I thought that the storm alone was the actual apocalypse and that similar things would be happening everywhere. It made the whole thing feel less suspenseful because the stakes weren't as high. But I guess if the storm did destroy the world then the Sacrifice Arcadia ending wouldn't be plausible.
These are pretty much my exact thoughts. Its overall a good episode hampered by a slightly disappointing ending that doesn't really live up to the theories and speculation that's built up over the past few months
That Dude John
Member
I dunno, man. Being well respected or liked by all is one thing, but the way everyone talks about her like she's some borderline goddess on earth is something I find fascinating.
Rachel is very clearly a reference to Laura from Twin Peaks. The characters are incredibly similar.
Speaking of which, I'd be interested in a Fire Walk With Me kinda thing if Life is Strange continues.
I take it just as part of the deconstruction of her character, a direct Laura Palmer reference. She starts as this incredible muse, a perfect paragon of beauty and kindness, but the more you know about her, not only she gets closer to normal people, but more fucked up than most. But there's still this beautiful aura about her, you can't help but like her. At least I couldn't.
Which is yet another reason why I'm disappointed we didn't meet her in the Nightmare. She even said we would in her text. D:
Just showing up and saying "I'll see you again in 25 years" would be OK.
You know what? That could be neat as fuck!
Now I want one special Fire Walk With Me episode before their next game. Which will be cosmic horror, of course.
Oh fuck yes. Please let this happen.
Turns out that was just a threat; the equivalent of saying that Max would be dying soon.
Hunh. I was nice to her for the whole game and all she did for me was moan.
That's just boring :C
Temporal Mess
Neo Member
I liked how they handled Rachel. She had this whole cult worship thing going on at the start but the more you found out about her the more you realized that she was just another incredibly flawed human being who had affairs, picked bad partners, etc.
Aside: All this is reminding me that I still need to watch Twin Peaks.
Aside: All this is reminding me that I still need to watch Twin Peaks.