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[Ushay]

Yeah, the acting and that the camera follows Ren give the cut a fantastic dynamic.

I love how aggressive his stance appears even though we can only view from behind. Very Sith like (even though he isn't?)

 

[Woorloog]

I love how aggressive his stance appears even though we can only view from behind. Very Sith like (even though he isn't?)

Not sure i'd call Kylo Ren "sith-like". He is somehow feral and animalistic.
Vader was a machine, Dooku was refined. Palpatine was sadistic, occasionally refined but i wouldn't call him feral. Maul was aggressive but i don't think he was like Kylo Ren either.
Of course, each Sith has had their own style so one can't really generalize them.

But based on old depictions of the Sith, i still keep thinking Kylo Ren as different.

 

[SporeCrawler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw

haha funny vid. still Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan vs. Quai Gonn is the best fight

 

[Broken Joystick]

We've also gone over the "Luke Skywalker is evil" theories" right?

For a split second I thought I was looking at Hayden Christensen from behind.

 

[PdotMichael]

This is present in every lightsaber battle in Star Wars. It's there because the purpose of movie swordfighting is to give the illusion of danger without actually having the actors hit each other. Or as that one hilarious video puts it, "the menace is phantom."

There are many good reasons to dislike that fight, like the lack of investment in the characters. Old fashioned stage swashbuckling should not be one of them in my eyes.

I wouldn't deny that the OT fights have a fair amount of saber hitting. But just watch that Vader vs. Luke fights - most of the moves are clearly targeted to the opponent.

 

[Ushay]

Not sure i'd call Kylo Ren "sith-like". He is somehow feral and animalistic.
Vader was a machine, Dooku was refined. Palpatine was sadistic, occasionally refined but i wouldn't call him feral. Maul was aggressive but i don't think he was like Kylo Ren either.
Of course, each Sith has had their own style so one can't really generalize them.

But based on old depictions of the Sith, i still keep thinking Kylo Ren as different.

Exactly this is what I meant, he seems very.. 'savage' in his stance. Powerful but untrained even.

 

[Grover Cleveland]

This is present in every lightsaber battle in Star Wars. It's there because the purpose of movie swordfighting is to give the illusion of danger without actually having the actors hit each other. Or as that one hilarious video puts it, "the menace is phantom."

There are many good reasons to dislike that fight, like the lack of investment in the characters. Old fashioned stage swashbuckling should not be one of them in my eyes.

Yep.

It may be glaring here because it's faster, but swinging to hit sabers rather than swinging to hit the other fighter was present in the OT too.

As it is in almost every choreographed stage fight.

 

[Starsunder]

This is present in every lightsaber battle in Star Wars. It's there because the purpose of movie swordfighting is to give the illusion of danger without actually having the actors hit each other. Or as that one hilarious video puts it, "the menace is phantom."

There are many good reasons to dislike that fight, like the lack of investment in the characters. Old fashioned stage swashbuckling should not be one of them in my eyes.

Exactly.

i cringe everytime someone asks that question. like the actors are really trying to take each others fucking heads off.

protip: its a movie

protip 2: this happens in the ot as well.

 

[Jarmel]

So I ended up watching that Youtube video with all the different lightsaber battles and while people mock Phantom Menace's one, AOTC is far worse. Absolutely every single thing about it is bad. It's atrocious before Yoda appears and then somehow manages to sink even lower.

 

[Fj0823]

I'll just say that every complain I've seen on Maul's return are well adressed in the series.

It was very well executed. Nothing like comic book BS.

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I'll just say that every complain I've seen on Maul's return are well adressed in the series.

It was very well executed. Nothing like comic book BS.

At first I thought it was a bit silly, but then he was used so well in the show and Sam Witwer did such a great job, I didn't really care anymore.

 

[MrBadger]

Exactly.

i cringe everytime someone asks that question. like the actors are really trying to take each others fucking heads off.

protip: its a movie

protip 2: this happens in the ot as well.

We're meant to believe they characters they're playing are actually trying to kill each other because that's the whole point in watching fiction, and if we're just sat there seeing actors and not characters, the movie's failed at its job.

The Maul fight in particular, to me, just felt like all the characters were going at it until one of them gets lucky. They don't get tired, they don't suffer any visible injuries, there's no emotion involved until after one of them's stabbed, it's just a straight up dance recital from start to end. It's like watching someone play a video game.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Why are they only trying to hit the sabers?

In the case of Episode 3 which normally gets the most complaints you can simply put it on Obi-wan being on the defensive 90% of the fight and not truly wanting to hurt/kill Anakin.

For me that actual fight was the best but the dumb shit tacked on nearly ruins it(falling bridge, wire-swing fighting, lava-bot/platform, sudden slight incline supposedly an inpenetrable fortress after all that ridiculous shit).

 

[Lifejumper]

Is Ben Burtt back for sounds?

 

[WadiumArcadium]

Is Ben Burtt back for sounds?

Yep.

He worked with JJ before on Super 8 and Star Trek so it always seemed likely he'd return.

 

[RangerX]

I have never been into star wars but I've watched this trailer a good few times now. I'm allowing myself to buy into the hype and rolling with it. It looks really good.

 

[BarringGaffner]

2 things-

-the lightsaber battle takes place in a forest. Think a few sloppy attacks could cut through/send some trees crashing down? Could make for quite a brutal fight!

- I am really hoping Kylo has no force powers and he's just a poser... but awakens ancient dark side sith. Would be a great twist/ending if suddenly the main antogonost that was a huge threat is nothing compared to the new threat. (If you have any leak info regarding this, please don't spoil me one way or the other, let me live in my fantasy )

 

[GAMEPROFF]

nvm

 

[WadiumArcadium]

2 things-

-the lightsaber battle takes place in a forest. Think a few sloppy attacks could cut through/send some trees crashing down? Could make for quite a brutal fight!

- I am really hoping Kylo has no force powers and he's just a poser... but awakens ancient dark side sith. Would be a great twist/ending if suddenly the main antogonost that was a huge threat is nothing compared to the new threat. (If you have any leak info regarding this, please don't spoil me one way or the other, let me live in my fantasy )

Pretty sure Kylo can use the the force.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Probably a coincidence but it kinda looks like a reverse (and better shot) version of this:

I don't know that it's necessarily better shot: That's the second of two jump scares in that movie (the fact it even has jump scares is kin of amazing) and it's probably the most imposing/threatening/intimidating/SCARY Vader's ever been in any of the films. He looks like a straight up monster right there, about to swallow Luke up completely.

There are definitely, though, a lot of things in this trailer alone that are definitely things we've never seen in a Star Wars movie before, and I wouldn't be surprised if Abrams is absolutely gunning to replace certain iconic shots and impactful moments with his own versions.

Jumping INTO hyperspace, for example.

 

[Lifejumper]

Kylo Ren walking up to Finn reminds of The Raid.

 

[Raptor]

This is what it looks like my music list, clearly I have a problem.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You sure do.

You have Estranged on that playlist.

It's not even all that good a Guns 'n' Roses song.

 

[Raptor]

You sure do.

You have Estranged on that playlist.

It's not even all that good a Guns 'n' Roses song.

Oh damn, looks funny how is pure OSTs and only that is different.

Is being my favorite Guns song since I heard it back in 92 I think.

 

[Horse Detective]

Yep, these are awesome. I hope the fights in this movie return that sense of how dangerous light sabers are.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but have any of you considered how this movie might introduce what light sabers are capable of?

If you think about it, Luke doesn't fully understand what they do until he sees Obi Wan chop that dudes arm off. And it had already been made clear that the jedi are considered mythical, so it isnt like any of the characters will be familiar with them.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Finn Rey and Poe get to the throne room of the Death Star 3 and they see Kylo Ren and they're like "We will defeat you you sith" and then Kylo says "you cannot defeat the sith" and then he unmasks and then it's Luke Skywalker and he says "Rey I am your father" and Rey cries but Finn attacks and almost wins but then whoosh another red lightsaber comes out of nowhere and its Darth Plageius and Darth Plageius almost kills Finn and whoosh there's another lighstsaber and its Darth Revan and HK47 is there and says "Greeting meatbags" and then the movie ends

After the credits, C3PO and R2D2 have fused into one machine called CUD1K that weilds 8 light sabers and has Chewbacca with his legs cut off in a backpack. As he's about to attack Luke, The Reapers attack and a giant EA logo shoots at the audience in IMAX 3D

 

[Liamario]

haha funny vid. still Darth Maul vs. Obi Wan vs. Quai Gonn is the best fight

Is it? Other than the fancy choreography, there's nothing special about the fight. I'm not emotionally invested in the characters and I could care even less about the outcome. The movie is so dull and the performances so wooden, I'm unable to render any enthusiasm for what's going on. It gets worse in AOTC and come ROTS, the only reason you care about the fight is because Anakin is such a whiny ungrateful shit, that you can wait for obi wan to put him in his place.

 

[Measley]

still the best lightsaber scene ever

Nope.

There was zero build up to that confrontation. It just sort of happened. What's worse is that Lucas spoiled the double lightsaber in the trailers, and killed off Maul in the first film for no real reason.

Maul was definitely the best aspect of TPM, mainly because he looked incredible, and he was a suitable menace that had a singular goal. However, the duel itself just felt hollow, and after a while it just becomes boring.

It's definitely not the best saber fight in Star Wars. Not by a long shot. That honor goes to Luke vs Vader in ESB. Nothing tops Luke's over confidence, Vader toying with Luke physically and mentally, and the greatest revelation in cinematic history.

 

[Einchy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw

Watching this makes me hope that the lightsaber fights are a mix of the prequels and the OT. I'd be disappointed if the fights were completely choreography like in the OT.

 

[Starsunder]

We're meant to believe they characters they're playing are actually trying to kill each other because that's the whole point in watching fiction, and if we're just sat there seeing actors and not characters, the movie's failed at its job.

The Maul fight in particular, to me, just felt like all the characters were going at it until one of them gets lucky. They don't get tired, they don't suffer any visible injuries, there's no emotion involved until after one of them's stabbed, it's just a straight up dance recital from start to end. It's like watching someone play a video game.

what youre describing is a failure of the movie itself, and one that is well noted about the prequels; namely, the writing, acting, and direction. yes, the prequel fights have little to no emotional resonance behind them, and they suffer greatly for it.

what im talking about is the fight coreography. calling it a dance recital because theyre flashy and mostly aiming for sabers, when the fights in the ot also have a lot of saber-aiming, seems a little weak.

 

[Sectorseven]

Nope.

There was zero build up to that confrontation. It just sort of happened. What's worse is that Lucas spoiled the double lightsaber in the trailers, and killed off Maul in the first film for no real reason.

To be fair, for some time prior to TPM people had been making their own double sabers, either as game mods or real life props, so it was almost a given that at some point a real one would make it into a film.

 

[Measley]

what youre describing is a failure of the movie itself, and one that is well noted about the prequels; namely, the writing, acting, and direction. yes, the prequel fights have little to no emotional resonance behind them, and they suffer greatly for it.

what im talking about is the fight coreography. calling it a dance recital because theyre flashy and mostly aiming for sabers, when the fights in the ot also have a lot of saber-aiming, seems a little weak.

Well after TPM, even the choreography looked like shit.

Ray Park made the choreography in TPM interesting because he's a wushu/martial arts expert. His skills gave a sense of realism to Maul's skills. Christopher Lee, Hayden Christensen, Samuel Jackson, and cartoon Yoda and Palpatine couldn't match his expertise, so eventually the prequel saber fights lacked emotion, AND looked like shit as well.

 

[Measley]

To be fair, for some time prior to TPM people had been making their own double sabers, either as game mods or real life props, so it was almost a given that at some point a real one would make it into a film.

Fair point. I just thought it would have been awesome going in there not knowing that Maul had a double sided saber.

Of course none of that matters, because Lucas kills off the character anyway.

BTW, I hope to god that Kylo Ren isn't killed off in TFA. Vader demonstrated that Star Wars needs a central villain that carries on in each episode.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

still the best lightsaber scene ever

lol, no

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Simon Pegg is a member of the story group?

Maybe not officially on the story group, but apparently his role in the story development was very critical.

“I will say this in terms of Simon: while he won’t be recognizable in the movie, in all honesty, his role in this – not the performance or the character – but his support and friendship has been massively important and helpful in the process,” Abrams says, shifting from deadpan to sincere. “He was a wonderful partner in crime to kick the story around and ask questions and come up with ideas, and he was an incredibly helpful part of the process for all of us. I’m very grateful.”

But that’s new. It turns out Pegg was a part of the brain trust shaping these new stories.

“He was a sounding board,” Abrams says. “He would drop by the set because he wanted to, and when he could, he would help… We could talk about things, and he was a perfect combination of incredibly smart screenwriter, fan of the series, critical fan of the series, and friend of mine – but not just blindly supportive. He was an honest, critical friend. And he wasn’t so close to it that he became immune to things. He would come in with fresh eyes and very smart ideas. He’s one of a handful of people along the way that has been really priceless.”

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Fighting with a light saber should feel more like you're trying to beat someone to death with a piece of lava that'll burn off your legs if you drop it, and less like a toy commercial

 

[WadiumArcadium]

lol, no

Definitely my favourite as well. The tension and atmosphere before the fight even starts is fantastic.

 

[BFIB]

The biggest travesty of the prequels is how fast Maul was disposed of. Had a great look, great presence. He should have been Anakins link to the dark side, after Palpatine convinced Anakin the only way to destroy Maul is to utilize all aspects of the Force.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

BTW, I hope to god that Kylo Ren isn't killed off in TFA. Vader demonstrated that Star Wars needs a central villain that carries on in each episode.

It doesnt need Kylo, there is a whole group of Knights of Ren.

I also suspect more, that General Hux is the new big villain:

 

[Measley]

The biggest travesty of the prequels is how fast Maul was disposed of. Had a great look, great presence. He should have been Anakins link to the dark side, after Palpatine convinced Anakin the only way to destroy Maul is to utilize all aspects of the Force.

Exactly. Further, it would have been a driver for Kenobi since Maul killed his master.

Dooku's introduction was extremely muddled and still makes little sense. I could buy the notion that Palpatine could coerce a young aggressive person like Maul and turn him into a killer. I could never buy the notion that an established, aging Jedi like Dooku would follow Palpatine, even to the point of calling him "master".

 

[Measley]

It doesnt need Kylo, there is a whole group of Knights of Ren.

I also suspect more, that General Hux is the new big villain:

I meant a sith, or at least someone with a red lightsaber. You need that character to contrast with the Jedi character, because (at least visually) only the sith character can match the abilities of the jedi character. Additionally, the sith character provides the mirror of what the jedi character can become if they fall off the path.

 

[Sectorseven]

Exactly. Further, it would have been a driver for Kenobi since Maul killed his master.

Dooku's introduction was extremely muddled and still makes little sense. I could buy the notion that Palpatine could coerce a young aggressive person like Maul and turn him into a killer. I could never buy the notion that an established, aging Jedi like Dooku would follow Palpatine, even to the point of calling him "master".

They could have explored the rule of two more deeply with him. We constantly see Palpy trying to screw over his apprentices, it would have been interesting to see Maul's perspective. Perhaps he had his own plans to overthrow Palpatine and saw Anakin as this unexpected threat, a fly in the ointment of sorts, and over the trilogy you'd have this battle of brawn and wits among the three with them all vying for their own goals.

Similar to what they were doing with Xizor in Shadows of the Empire, but...better.

 

[PdotMichael]

Well, more Siths would explain Qui-Gon's search for Anakin Jesus Skywalker who will bring balance in the universe.

Darth Maul was like the first known Sith in whatever years, there was no fucking need for Jesus.

 

[Measley]

They could have explored the rule of two more deeply with him. We constantly see Palpy trying to screw over his apprentices, it would have been interesting to see Maul's perspective. Perhaps he had his own plans to overthrow Palpatine and saw Anakin as this unexpected threat. A fly in the ointment of sorts, and over the trilogy you'd have this battle of brawn and wits among the three with them all vying for their own goals.

Similar to what they were doing with Xizor in Shadows of the Empire, but...better.

I agree completely. Imagine if Maul had just left Kenobi hanging over the pit at the end of TPM. That would have established that Maul was so bad ass that he killed a Jedi master, and that he didn't view Kenobi as a serious threat to him. It would have casted a looming shadow of dread over the prequels, because you have this visible, powerful villain that the heroes have to defeat. It also makes Palpatine's grade scheme less complex, because Maul could have been Palpy's visual representative throughout the entire trilogy, instead of it bouncing from Dooku to Grievous in the subsequent films.

Everything you mentioned above would have made the prequels so much better.

 

[Secret Fawful]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw

hahaha I really enjoyed that. Reminds me of the old Monty Python sketch How Not to be Seen.

Just like to comment on how much I love this shot.

How he looks really scared and totally incapable of taking Ren on, and Ren looks really intimidating and in control. It just seems much more genuine than the light saber scenes in the prequels where every fight is super choreographed and planned out, even if we're told the characters participating are amateurs and still going through training

Kylo kinda looks like a Frankenstein here, similarly to how Vader was basically a theatrical, evil, Frankenstein's monster. I really like how as the camera gets closer to Finn, Kylo doesn't get smaller, but bigger, and he kinda towers over Finn.

They could have explored the rule of two more deeply with him. We constantly see Palpy trying to screw over his apprentices, it would have been interesting to see Maul's perspective. Perhaps he had his own plans to overthrow Palpatine and saw Anakin as this unexpected threat, a fly in the ointment of sorts, and over the trilogy you'd have this battle of brawn and wits among the three with them all vying for their own goals.

It's not exactly the same, but it's close enough for me to say it. One thing in Star Wars (not TFA) kinda did what you want:

Spoiler

the Clone Wars series.

 

[Forkball]

It doesnt need Kylo, there is a whole group of Knights of Ren.

I also suspect more, that General Hux is the new big villain:

I don't know why people assume Kylo could bite it. Yeah, Darth Maul died in the first movie, but many people considered that to be a mistake. Hell they brought him back with robot legs. Robot legs. I can see Hux or Phasma getting killed off in the first movie though. Out of those two I pick Hux. Phasma looks cool and you gotta get that merch money. Hux is a dude in a suit. AIN'T NO ONE BUYING A HUX LEGO SET.

Andy Serkis character spoilers:

Spoiler

It's confirmed that Serkis is playing Supreme Leader Snoke, the head honcho of the First Order and probably the Big Bad of the new trilogy. He clearly dwarfs Hux's importance, so I can see Hux as being rather disposable as the series moves forward and Snoke is more featured. I'm also surprised there's not more speculation about Snoke considering he comes out of nowhere and may be the ultimate baddie.

 

[OldRoutes]

2 things-

-the lightsaber battle takes place in a forest. Think a few sloppy attacks could cut through/send some trees crashing down? Could make for quite a brutal fight!

- I am really hoping Kylo has no force powers and he's just a poser... but awakens ancient dark side sith. Would be a great twist/ending if suddenly the main antogonost that was a huge threat is nothing compared to the new threat. (If you have any leak info regarding this, please don't spoil me one way or the other, let me live in my fantasy )

I'm also betting that Kylo can't use the Force.

 

[Mr Cola]

I'm also betting that Kylo can't use the Force.

Would be a reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalll bait and switch given the trailers but its possible

Would be interesting if you see him do that force push move and nothing happens

 

[WadiumArcadium]

I'm also betting that Kylo can't use the Force.

So he's just waving his hand in the second teaser for theatrical effect? Maybe he has performance issues.

 

[Joel Was Right]

I just cant be hyped for this. I don't get the Star Wars stuff - it seems cheesy in comparison to my favourite space dramas (BSG, DS9).

Can anyone recommend some stuff to watch/read?