Mushihimesama announced for Steam!

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I am not going to link directly. I don't want to send a hate brigade to some poor guys little YT channel, but good god, this needs to be seen. What has he done to you, Mushi?

Friends don't let friends stretch aspect ratios. Those with a weak stomach click carefully.

kWjyk10.png
 
SmiteOfHand said:
I am not going to link directly. I don't want to send a hate brigade to some poor guys little YT channel, but good god, this needs to be seen. What has he done to you, Mushi?

Friends don't let friends stretch aspect ratios. Those with a weak stomach click carefully.
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For the love of... make it stop! make it stoooop!
e2YvfS8.gif
 
Rayge said:
The game with the DLC is under $20 and people are still complaining. It amazes me how entitled people are sometimes. Then you have people trying to justify their reasoning with the game being free on iOS. I'm glad I don't surround myself with people like that have this mentality.
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let them complain. if it was $5, they would still say it was too much,
 
SmiteOfHand said:
I am not going to link directly. I don't want to send a hate brigade to some poor guys little YT channel, but good god, this needs to be seen. What has he done to you, Mushi?

Friends don't let friends stretch aspect ratios. Those with a weak stomach click carefully.

kWjyk10.png
Click to expand...

Ugh.
As bad as that looks, the review is even worse.

Also, is it cool to discuss the game? Destructoid is one thing but now random youtubers are talking about it. I assumed that there was some sort of embargo.
Maybe I should contact Blackbird just to be on the safe side.
 
SmiteOfHand said:
I am not going to link directly. I don't want to send a hate brigade to some poor guys little YT channel, but good god, this needs to be seen. What has he done to you, Mushi?

Friends don't let friends stretch aspect ratios. Those with a weak stomach click carefully.

kWjyk10.png
Click to expand...

Must not comment on his page... must not comment on his page...
 
Give us the preciousss, Degica! Open up the store page just for us who post here so we can buy it now. My money is taped all over the screen. :v
 
SmiteOfHand said:
I am not going to link directly. I don't want to send a hate brigade to some poor guys little YT channel, but good god, this needs to be seen. What has he done to you, Mushi?

Friends don't let friends stretch aspect ratios. Those with a weak stomach click carefully.

kWjyk10.png
Click to expand...

Damn... I really need to start my own review channel for lesser known games along with popular games. I even have a nice mic. This probably just pushed me over the edge. There's a slew of shmups and other good things on the horizon.

I would have reviewed the hell out of this game.

RoryDropkick said:
Must not comment on his page... must not comment on his page...
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I read his response to a comment on the page and I genuinely felt so bad for the guy due to him completely missing the point, that I just let it slide.
 
I guess me thinking people understand the point of these games might be up for debate as the that YouTube review mentions that the game can be blown through quickly on the highest difficulty due to infinite continues.
 
Same as Deathsmiles, a game I adore (bar the character portraits).

And I practiced that endlessly until I did the one credit finish.

The use of achievements really helped give indication of what was expected.

That said, a "true" one credit mode would be clearer to new audiences.
 
This is why I was (very belatedly) pushing for continues to be limited, at least for the first several hours of gameplay. I've watched how people unfamiliar to the genre approach Cave games in a free play setting; very few ever realize there is a problem even as they credit up 3-5 times a minute.

Blackbird has told me privately the game will launch with unlimited continues, same with Cave's 360 releases, but I am pushing heavily for this behavior to be changed in a patch.
 
yop said:
I guess me thinking people understand the point of these games might be up for debate as the that YouTube review mentions that the game can be blown through quickly on the highest difficulty due to infinite continues.
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Yeah, this perception needs to be changed.

Perhaps put unlimited continues in a "cheat" section in the menu.

Or make each continue a microtransaction for the complete arcade experience ;)
 
StarCreator said:
This is why I was (very belatedly) pushing for continues to be limited, at least for the first several hours of gameplay. I've watched how people unfamiliar to the genre approach Cave games in a free play setting; very few ever realize there is a problem even as they credit up 3-5 times a minute.

Blackbird has told me privately the game will launch with unlimited continues, same with Cave's 360 releases, but I am pushing heavily for this behavior to be changed in a patch.
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I think unlimited continues are fine. Let peole credit feed, and the ones that dont want to, simply wont. But barring a casual player from seeing all of the game due to lack of skill can put them off of the game and subsequently further releases.

I used to credit feed all the time, then as i got better, started seeing how far i could get on one credit. But locking it away, even for a few hours can damage a players enjoyment.
 
kaioshade said:
I think unlimited continues are fine. Let peole credit feed, and the ones that dont want to, simply wont. But barring a casual player from seeing all of the game due to lack of skill can put them off of the game and subsequently further releases.

I used to credit feed all the time, then as i got better, started seeing how far i could get on one credit. But locking it away, even for a few hours can damage a players enjoyment.
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At least defaulting it to off in the menu could already help to change the perception though, and shouldn't hurt anyone.
 
kaioshade said:
I think unlimited continues are fine. Let peole credit feed, and the ones that dont want to, simply wont. But barring a casual player from seeing all of the game due to lack of skill can put them off of the game and subsequently further releases.

I used to credit feed all the time, then as i got better, started seeing how far i could get on one credit. But locking it away, even for a few hours can damage a players enjoyment.
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If people plow through the game due to credit-feeding and then say, "Wow, that was short. What a waste of money." - that isn't going to encourage them to keep going with this or any future Cave games.
 
Durante said:
At least defaulting it to off in the menu could already help to change the perception though, and shouldn't hurt anyone.
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This would be a good middle ground. At least make it something selectable in a menu.

hosannainexcelsis said:
If people plow through the game due to credit-feeding and then say, "Wow, that was short. What a waste of money." - that isn't going to encourage them to keep going with this or any future Cave games.
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It is definitely a delicate balance for sure. But i also think most people who will be buying this are definitely fans of Cave and know exactly what they are getting into. Although i have a few friends who will prob try it due to watching me all the time and wondering what the fuss was about.
 
Super looking forward to this. It's been years since I got the PS2 release (and the soundtrack with Reco going commando, and The Secret Lover...) and it'll be nice to have a way to play a better port without needing to mod/import a Japanese 360.

This will end up being my third time getting the soundtrack, but more Reco is never bad!
 
kaioshade said:
It is definitely a delicate balance for sure. But i also think most people who will be buying this are definitely fans of Cave and know exactly what they are getting into. Although i have a few friends who will prob try it due to watching me all the time and wondering what the fuss was about.
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The problem is that potential new players are put off by reviews that talk about the game being twenty minutes long because the reviewer credit-fed the game and never touched it again. Like it or not, reviews (professional or amateur) still matter, and STG reviews tend to be worse than most.
 
I think the default should be unlimited, but before continuing a message pops up to inform players how these games are scored. Something to the effect of: "STGs/Shoot 'em Ups are only scored and beaten using NO continues. Proceed with practice anyway?"
 
Aerocrane said:
XIIZEAL warns you that your score won't be saved on leaderboards and no replay will be saved either if you continue. It would be nice to see something similar added to Mushihimesama.
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Doesn't Mushihimesama already reset your score to zero on each continue? And even then, I don't think scoring is an aspect the casual gamer cares about or even notices.
 
StarCreator said:
Doesn't Mushihimesama already reset your score to zero on each continue? And even then, I don't think scoring is an aspect the casual gamer cares about or even notices.
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I assume it resets your score on continue. But you are probably right, having a warning about score wouldn't mean anything to a casual player.
 
It's so nice to see 12 pages of hype for Mushi on PC! :-)

About continues: all Cave ports disable continues if you play score attack (the mode that uploads your score to online leaderboards), so if you want to compete it's obvious you shouldn't use them. It would still be nice to have limited continues, maybe depending on difficulty level. Infinite continues is like playing Doom with default god mode.
 
Man, reading the comments on this page is kinda hard. I would consider myself a casual shmup player and High Scores, Leaderboards and Rankings are seriously not my stuff. I would also credit feed through a game as well, though I still strive for that 1CC but not too much. Despite all of that, I can still say I'm having a blast with all of the shmups that I've played. But tbh,there were a few games wherein limited continues turned me off.
 
I don't mind Unlimited credits. They could even have inexperienced players start with 1 or 2 credits and if they can't get the hang of the game, then it can help them by unlocking more credits after a completed session. All the way up to 10 or unlimited.

I also agree that more shmups should have warning messages stating that if you continue, your score will not be saved / or reset / or only the first credit score will be saved. That would be incentive to help people want to get better at a game.

When I played Crimzon Clover and I restarted a stage it told me all my progress would be lost, that helped me push myself to a 1CC of the game (even if it was on normal difficulty). Also, the better you were at scoring in that game, the quicker you could unlock that overpowered ship to mess around in.

There should be more unlocks in STGs earned through completing runs under a certain amount of continues, amount of time played, etc.

Unlimited Credits is not the problem. There are other ways to let people know that they will be penalized for continuing. Most games already do this, but they don't do a good job of letting the gamer know that they are about to lose scoring progress or leaderboard / replay submissions.
 
vall03 said:
Man, reading the comments on this page is kinda hard. I would consider myself a casual shmup player and High Scores, Leaderboards and Rankings are seriously not my stuff. I would also credit feed through a game as well, though I still strive for that 1CC but not too much. Despite all of that, I can still say I'm having a blast with all of the shmups that I've played. But tbh,there were a few games wherein limited continues turned me off.
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If you get joy from credit feeding then you do you. You get it, but for whatever reason are not seriously invested in the challenge. I personally would get bored with the genre if that is how I approached it but who cares what I think.

The bigger issue is that by having it as the default it sends a wrong message about how the game was designed. New players credit feed, and come to some bad conclusions as a result.
 
Setting the default to unlimited credits is completely asinine tbh. If anything it shouldn't even be unlocked by default. Make it an option after 25 continues or so.
 
Rayge said:
Unlimited Credits is not the problem. There are other ways to let people know that they will be penalized for continuing. Most games already do this, but they don't do a good job of letting the gamer know that they are about to lose scoring progress or leaderboard / replay submissions.
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Many (most?) new players wouldn't care about scoring yet would still prefer some kind of challenge to what they would get credit-feeding, which makes total sense. Challenge in this genre shouldn't only exist when playing for score, that'd be dreadful.

Defaulting continues to off sends a pretty clear message that the game is even reasonably completable that way. Like, many new players just assume that the whole 1CC thing is just what androids in YouTube videos do, and that's clearly not the case. Leaving someone to figure out arcade gaming on their own with unlimited continues is a weaker option than letting someone start up the game, leave things on default and maybe recognize the difficulty curve, and later turn on continues if that's how they want to play.
 
Rayge said:
Unlimited Credits is not the problem. There are other ways to let people know that they will be penalized for continuing. Most games already do this, but they don't do a good job of letting the gamer know that they are about to lose scoring progress or leaderboard / replay submissions.
Click to expand...
Unlimited credits isn't a problem, but I think defaulting to it might be.

It's not even so much about "penalizing" people (in terms of score etc.) for using them, it's more about making them (hopefully) realize that by credit-feeding they are depriving themselves of the real experience of these games -- even if you don't play for score at all.
 
Tain said:
Many (most?) new players wouldn't care about scoring yet would still prefer some kind of challenge to what they would get credit-feeding, which makes total sense. Challenge in this genre shouldn't only exist when playing for score, that'd be dreadful.

Defaulting continues to off sends a pretty clear message that the game is even reasonably completable that way. Like, many new players just assume that the whole 1CC thing is just what androids in YouTube videos do, and that's clearly not the case. Leaving someone to figure out arcade gaming on their own with unlimited continues is a weaker option than letting someone start up the game, leave things on default, and turn on continues if that's how they want to play.
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I'd agree with that. The only reason I eventually came around to playing shmups and arcade games, generally, the right way, is through ports that limited the number of credits I had available. Otherwise, there's no reason for someone to think "I have to play this on one credit," nor is there any real opportunity to appreciate a game.
 
Default unlimited credits I think may lead to more positive reviews than people rushing the game so fast that they didnt realized they can change it on options and making a negative review because they didnt finished the game.
 
SmiteOfHand said:
Cave interview..

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/q-a-cave-on-the-shmup-business-and-mushihimesama-on-steam/0158449
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“Since recently we have not released games on console, there was no binding contract preventing this version. I knew there were many Cave fans overseas, but distribution and contracts always limited our distribution worldwide. The goal this time is to really make a worldwide release.”
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See? Consoles are the root of all evil. I always told you.
 
Interesting to see that Cave went to Degica and not the other way around. Neat.

I want this to do well, I want more ports, and them talking crowdfunding makes me think that's the most likely way we'll see a new original game. I'd go wild on that one.
 
“We would certainly consider it if Mushihimesama performs well,” Ogura states. “This release [of Mushihimesama] is an experimental foray in a new business area. We are checking to see if there is a market for shooting outside of the smartphone, but since the game is not released yet it is still too early to tell. We certainly feel it would be worthwhile to crowdfund if the conditions are right.”
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I know this is the reality of the shoot em up market today, and it's sad to read. I can definitely sympathize with their efforts.

Lack of 1080p support is a bit of a downer but I don't mind playing games windowed.
 
StarCreator said:
And even then, I don't think scoring is an aspect the casual gamer cares about or even notices.
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Dunno. I can see at least some people noticing that maybe it's not the optimal way to play if the game disables some options for choosing it. Also, maybe do like GTA 4 (not sure about later games and another platforms, but I guess it's the same) and disable achievements for the time you're playing with unlimited credits as well? Although that may have more impact on consoles...
 
As for me, I'm a very casual shoot em up fan, but when it comes to credits this is how I feel; as long as I feel like the game has proper difficulty scaling, then I don't have any issues with limited credits.

And I like the current system of using a credit doing damage to your score.

I'm liking the look of this game because the giant purple bullets means that it's easier to plan maneuverability strategies, unlike Raiden IV where the shots blend into the background and are very frustrating to deal with.
 
I'm really looking forward to this. The last vertical-scroller I can remember playing at any length was Truxton
(1990 EU Sega release)
. The OST links / artwork pulled me in and I've been having a lot of fun with the iOS version for a couple of days.

Being so out of the loop, I'm not sure what to expect in terms of scoreboards. I hoping we'll have Steam friend scoreboards, but if not are we setting up a GAF board?
 
Every mode in the game (including the DLC) has online leaderboards. There are also filters for your friendlist. Anyone playing for score should be kept busy for quite a long time.
 
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