The Elite
BOSS
No.
James Bond has always been a name. That code name bullshit was made up by people who couldn't wrap their head around different actors playing the same role.
007 SPECTRE |OT| It's me, Austin. It was me all along, Austin.
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No.
James Bond has always been a name. That code name bullshit was made up by people who couldn't wrap their head around different actors playing the same role.
I think it'd be an interesting idea for the next movie if
Blofeld is actually marked for death by whoever SPECTRE's new leader ends up being, and Bond has to end up protecting him. He'd still be a valuable asset to MI6 and know everything about SPECTRE, which ends up putting a target on his back.
My Bond rankings always fluctuate a bit. I can say this though...
Casino Royale works as an injection. I never assumed for a moment this franchise could sustain numerous releases of that quality and go forward in bulk as they always have. Wasn't going to happen.
So, I would go more [ Casino Royale > Quantum of Solace ] & [ Skyfall > Spectre ]
Quantum had the task of trying to directly connect films, and was met with mixed response. Skyfall was the lets try and do a balancing act to get the franchise back to some of the old tropes fans of the franchise are accustomed to, and then with Spectre they just went full classic Bond. Tropes and nonsense everywhere, and Craig is simply an awful Bond to attempt to pull some of it off.
The only notable difference is for modern Bond is that he now has a full team of people driving around in their Mystery Machine with their own subplot. Because, we can't leave James Bond on his own anymore.
Casino Royale works as an injection. I never assumed for a moment this franchise could sustain numerous releases of that quality and go forward in bulk as they always have. Wasn't going to happen.
So, I would go more [ Casino Royale > Quantum of Solace ] & [ Skyfall > Spectre ]
Quantum had the task of trying to directly connect films, and was met with mixed response. Skyfall was the lets try and do a balancing act to get the franchise back to some of the old tropes fans of the franchise are accustomed to, and then with Spectre they just went full classic Bond. Tropes and nonsense everywhere, and Craig is simply an awful Bond to attempt to pull some of it off.
The only notable difference is for modern Bond is that he now has a full team of people driving around in their Mystery Machine with their own subplot. Because, we can't leave James Bond on his own anymore.
The Elite
BOSS
This is the most troubling aspect of the last two films for me.
I think when you have Ralph Fiennes as M, you want him to give a little more to do than just sit in his office and give Bond his next mission.
Pierce Brosnan
Pierce Brosnan
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Howdy...
I didn't hate Skyfall, but it's faults are many and impossible to ignore.
For this movie, I'd say it's faults are many and mostly easy to ignore.
As always, the weaknesses are all in the script. On one hand, I liked the puzzle/detective aspect of tracking down Mr Oberhauser, on the other hand, the scene to scene transitions are very weak stuff, and it seems like they stopped bothering trying to make them make sense after a while.
I don't think so. I like Fiennes, but nobody purchasing a ticket to a Bond film to see him.
I'm okay with more Moneypenny...for...reasons.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Now that I am catching up on the thread (and the general critics' reactions, which I'd been avoiding)... I'm shocked people like this movie less than Skyfall.
I mean, I liked Skyfall for what it was, but it was a huge step down for the Craig era. I took this to me going back in the right direction *and* having a plot that made a lot more sense (with one huge exception). I loved tying into Quantum and CR, although I wish they had not trying to showhorn in a Skyfall connection as well.
The action was fantastic, I *liked* the FRWL homage and though it was a great fight in its own right, too.
And I thought that the assertion of the value of human spies was a pretty big deal as well.
My rankings of the Craig era:
CR > Qos >>>>>> Spectre >>>>>> Skyfall.
Skyfall is still a mid-tier Bond film overall, Spectre is considerable better than the average.
I mean, I liked Skyfall for what it was, but it was a huge step down for the Craig era. I took this to me going back in the right direction *and* having a plot that made a lot more sense (with one huge exception). I loved tying into Quantum and CR, although I wish they had not trying to showhorn in a Skyfall connection as well.
The action was fantastic, I *liked* the FRWL homage and though it was a great fight in its own right, too.
And I thought that the assertion of the value of human spies was a pretty big deal as well.
My rankings of the Craig era:
CR > Qos >>>>>> Spectre >>>>>> Skyfall.
Skyfall is still a mid-tier Bond film overall, Spectre is considerable better than the average.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It's not that low, it's still mid-tier. I'd put it squarely in the middle of the 25 films (although I haven't done a ranking in ages). All of Craig's movies have been at least pretty good. But it suffers badly from the overall plot not making a lot of sense. Spectre *gains* a lt for having a plot that makes sense. Both Bond's plot-- tracing the path back to its head, and the villains' plot, trying to mole into the world's combined intelligence (although the specific means of that is doubly cartoony).
The glaring plot hole is what happens when Bond locates Blofeld's lair. He.. walks in and surrenders himself? And the villains... torture him rather than just killing him? If there was some justification for how that all went down, I missed it. Especially since Spectre tried to kill him en route.
I'd rather they have tried to sneak in and got caught somehow.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
I still don't see how someone could dislike Skyfall.
Insanely detailed and dark atmosphere. Camera and lighting direction perfection. Best theme song along with one of the best chase scenes of all time (on par with CR). Fantastic soundtrack. Interesting villain with real motives.
How?
Insanely detailed and dark atmosphere. Camera and lighting direction perfection. Best theme song along with one of the best chase scenes of all time (on par with CR). Fantastic soundtrack. Interesting villain with real motives.
How?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I don't dislike it, but the nonsensical villain plot hurts it a lot in my mind.
I did not find the villain that interesting in execution, although the idea was good.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
The action was awful, Q, and the setting sucked.
Plus, no hard Bond. Just Bond in a suit everywhere.
Plus, no hard Bond. Just Bond in a suit everywhere.
Bond is always wearing a suit though. Look at him in QoS! Motherfucker is walking through the desert in a suit.
The Elite
BOSS
What is "hard Bond"?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I've come to the conclusion that I have completely different standards for action than most people. How was the action awful? What does good action look like?
I mean Jesus, I thought *I* was going to fall out of that helicopter in the opening sequence.
Also, I don't get the setting sucking, either. This had a bunch of great locales.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Hard bond as in the badass bond we got in cr and QoS.
And bond did switch to a more utilitarian wardrobe in the desert. Had that Steve McQueen look going on there.
And bond did switch to a more utilitarian wardrobe in the desert. Had that Steve McQueen look going on there.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I'm referencing Skyfall, in case you missed that. And it's the whole "I have complete control of your computers and can blow up your HQ, but instead I will intentionally get captured just so I can speechify and then escape again past a place where I've managed to rig a terrorist-level explosion just as a diversion.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The missing scene where he attempts to infiltrate Spectre's HQ and gets caught rather than just Waltzing in would have been a good place for that.
See what I did thar?
We got a smidgen of it at the end when he's in commando gear.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Well I'm seeing spectre tonight, so I'll check it out!
Fancy Clown
Member
That's the weakest part of the movie easily, but the rest of it is good to great (although I don't like the emphasis on his plucky support team, but it's nowhere near as bad here as it is in Spectre). The opening and closing sequences are particularly fantastic. I thought Silva was overall a good villain as well.
Yoshichan
And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
good luck!
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I agree, it's just that it drags down the movie considerably for me.
Silva was a mixed bag for me. Lots of wasted potential.
Same with Waltz, for that matter, but
I imagine we'll be seeing him again.
Well I'm not saying people go to Bond movies to see Ralph Fiennes, but if you're the producer on the film and you have Ralph Fiennes in your movie, you want to give him material beyond sitting in a chair at the beginning of the movie.
EatinOlives
Member
Too bad the pacing and editing were so awful.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I do not understand this at all. There isn't a false beat in the opening.
KingHenrik30
Member
Wow surprised so many people hating on Skyfall. That last half hour was my favorite part of any of the Craig Bond films.
You don't need to though. Casting a film isn't like a sports team. It is possible he took the role expecting to do more, but to land that sort of role it's just easy $$.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Another way I am out of step with popular opinion-- I really like Bond having a support team. He certainly did in the books, and it makes sense here, too. Q is a little quirky or whatever, but he's got a small enough role that that's OK.
M and Moneypenny are great.
M and Moneypenny are great.
Triggerhappytel
Member
Saw it yesterday, and really enjoyed it. Felt like it was falling back on established Bond clichés a little too much (i.e.
) but I liked that Moneypenny, Q and M had a bit more screen time in this one, and I liked that it referenced the other films a fair deal even though I didn't find it especially convincing that
was the
.
Anyway, I really enjoyed it and considering it's been a long time since I've been to the cinema the overall experience was great.
villain having a huge lair, monologuing while torturing Bond, big brute guy showing up a few times through the movie
Blofeld
architect of all of Bond's pain and problems
Anyway, I really enjoyed it and considering it's been a long time since I've been to the cinema the overall experience was great.
PolarGamer
Member
Oh my God yes. And that theme song. Weakest bs intro sequence in a Bond movie I can remember.
Triggerhappytel
Member
On the other hand, from that intro sequence I think Sam Mendes needs to direct a Cthulhu movie.
The only thing Skyfall had going for me was how pretty it looked and the Adele theme song. Unfortunately for Skyfall, it takes a whole lot more than that to impress me.
The plot was horrible, the music was forgettable, the script was bad and cheesy, there were some really cheesy moments in the movie which felt out of place for a Craig Bond movie(komodo dragons scene).
CR and QoS set a certain theme and style for Craig Bonds, Skyfall threw that all in the garbage.
The action was pretty bad too, compare the fight scenes in CR vs Skyfall, Skyfall looks like amateur hour in comparison. Mendes is horrible with directing fight scenes.
The plot was horrible, the music was forgettable, the script was bad and cheesy, there were some really cheesy moments in the movie which felt out of place for a Craig Bond movie(komodo dragons scene).
CR and QoS set a certain theme and style for Craig Bonds, Skyfall threw that all in the garbage.
The action was pretty bad too, compare the fight scenes in CR vs Skyfall, Skyfall looks like amateur hour in comparison. Mendes is horrible with directing fight scenes.
Lol, that's like one of MANY of these back to back contrast posts in here!
I want to go see it one more time to see if I still like it as much as the first time.
Well, It's certainly no The Man With The Golden Gun.
I thought the visuals for the opening track were fine though.
Anton Sugar
Member
I just don't understand how someone can find the plot of Skyfall to be nonsensical, but is okay with Spectre.
This post summarizes a lot of the plot/logic issues in Spectre (from the spoiler thread).
It is a dumb movie.
The visuals are okay but something about it felt incomplete. Plus, those cringe shots of Bond standing shirtless with women draped over him--ugh.
This post summarizes a lot of the plot/logic issues in Spectre (from the spoiler thread).
It is a dumb movie.
The visuals are okay but something about it felt incomplete. Plus, those cringe shots of Bond standing shirtless with women draped over him--ugh.
Fancy Clown
Member
The into visuals were bad. They felt kinda cheap and none of the imagery felt cohesive like a mishmash of styles, apart from the octopus motif.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Eh, half those are the dumb things that happen during any dumb action sequence in any Bond movie ever, and the rest are mostly localized to the Desert sequence (which I agree is dumb). Most of those aren't even plot, but details in action sequences.
I mean, does Silva having bobby-trapped the subway right near where he knows he'll escape after purposely getting captured despite not knowing where MI6's new HQ will be count? Because that's dumber than anything on the list you linked except Bond walking into Spectre HQ. How about Bond and M fleeing to Skyfall because they are supposedly untraceable there, but allowing themselves be traced? Or the super-hacker turning MI6 into a bomb? Skyfall is dumber than this movie.
megamerican
Member
Boring as fuck. Beyond the opening shot the movie felt completely lifeless. Mendes really has no idea how to do any kind of fun action or humor. Well maybe apart from the unintentional hilarity of
Craig brings zero to the role. They may as well just buy his likeness and CGI his singular expression on some stand in's face.
I'm ready for a complete reset. The continuity is a joke and does nothing for the series, or the character. The Bourne / Nolan aesthetic they ripped off is stale at this point. I'd like a new Bond and something more in the vein of the Kingsman.
having Blofeld set up and decorate a haunted house for Bond complete with a helpful safety net
Craig brings zero to the role. They may as well just buy his likeness and CGI his singular expression on some stand in's face.
I'm ready for a complete reset. The continuity is a joke and does nothing for the series, or the character. The Bourne / Nolan aesthetic they ripped off is stale at this point. I'd like a new Bond and something more in the vein of the Kingsman.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'd argue that sending a
Spectre member to kill Bond when your ultimate goal is to get him to come to you is pretty fucking dumb. Like the plan to plane(?) his way to rescuing Madelin, or why Madelin abruptly leaves James to (shocker) get captured. Even better, Bond, through no skill of his own, finds her because she wakes up in time to scream.
Maybe you're right in that Skyfall, on a higher/story level, is dumber, but I feel like this was filled with more dumb moments.
Also, the whole
half-brother thing
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Absolutely to the bolded. Or
Childhood acquaintance or whatever.
Anyway,
trying to kill him on the train makes sense if you aren't expecting him to hand himself over.
handing himself over, in fact it's my single biggest complaint.
I also have no problem with chance playing a part in these movies, they always do. The one linked
that complained that Swan saved him by shooting the goon
As far as
Sawn getting captured,
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