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[Mauricio_Magus]

Sure, but that still doesn't go against the notion that the thread is making it harder for people to jump in.

It's an anime thread in the community tab, it really doesn't matter and I assure you that almost no on ever checks the damn opening post.

Even beyond the first post, there was some comments such as "Those are the highlights you chose?" and "this won't be a very interesting season".

pretty much this, anyone that reads any of the posts after the OP would know that it's just a joke.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

good post, cyan

anime (culture) needs more self-awareness on how it is presenting itself

as for the thread thinger: ~waiii it was for jokesies guys~.. isnt exactly an accessible front for the curious casual person

 

[Toxi]

anime (culture) needs more self-awareness on how it is presenting itself

If anything, this proved that the problem was too much self-awareness.

 

[Shouta]

The most obvious explanation is content and community. What is your explanation that doesn't involve either?

What? The most obvious reason that anime doesn't get the same coverage despite the fact its selling gangbusters and has huge attendance at conventions is that those outlets have no stake in anime or do not have people interested in covering it. Geek websites and mainstream media aren't required to cover everything for one and if the writers aren't interested or themselves do not consider anime to be a part of their sphere, then of course it wouldn't get articles written about them. Things would immediately change if the writing staff was changed out with folks that were more aware of anime in general.

There's also the fact that most of the stuff that gets reported on geek websites here are made here. That allows them more avenues to follow the development of that content and even interact with creators directly through interviews and the like. That's not necessarily an avenue that those sites will have with anime, without specialists on staff in both language and contacts within the anime industry. If they make a Marvel TV show, movie, or comic book, a geek website can try and contact them to do interviews. That's not gonna easily happen with the Japanese industry.

I mean there are certainly content issues and some community problems but I don't think it's the reason why it's not getting covered by mainstream media.

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

A joke that OP might be but when I do pop my head in the thread discussion of various high school and/or idol skows and rankings of "besf girl" and joke about lewd comment aren't uncommon. Less so than when Duckrollput a foot down a year or so ago admittedly

Very little worthwhile things to talk about with the weekends being rather loaded compared to other seasons.

 

[Dedication Through Light]

I can't wait till Netflix makes anime. It's gonna be better than 99% of the fan service pervy trash out there. Once Netflix legitimizes anime in the US's eyes and actually makes good anime that you can leave your door open watching is when otaku culture can hitch a ride with geek culture on the climb to mainstream acceptance. Even then only the least creepy will be accepted, leaving behind the real otaku, such as mainstream game fandom has left behind "gamers".

I would think Netflix is going to get into the coproduction of adapting LN's to anime, its the new frontier for anime, so I doubt they would somehow avoid typical pervy tropes in anime.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

It's an anime thread in the community tab, it really doesn't matter and I assure you that almost no on ever checks the damn opening post.

uh.... i actually check the opening post every time i needs a rec on anime

but ok. carry on lil dancing moe-chan~

 

[kitschykitty]

So I went to crunchyroll to sign up and give it a shot and this is what I see on the front page, I wonder what mainstream audiences might have issues with.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

If anything, this proved that the problem was too much self-awareness.

yea, too much and not enough at the same time. it's like ...bizarre :>

also i love your avatar. v spider. much cute.

 

[PdotMichael]

So I went to crunchyroll to sign up and give it a shot and this is what I see on the front page, I wonder what mainstream audiences might have issues with.

The old Pokemon vs Digimon wars are over. Come on, move on!

 

[sonicmj1]

Anime that strives to be a little more universal in its approach either from the start or during the process of localization--Sanrio stuff, Dragonball, Ghibli, Pokemon--seems to be breaking through no problem.

Interestingly enough, anime is kind of similar in its home country. A lot of the stuff we discuss only airs in late-night TV slots, with individual series making money by selling only thousands (tens of thousands if they're lucky) of overpiced Blu-rays to a tiny group of hardcore fanatics. Meanwhile, mainstream shows like Dragonball get watched by tons of kids, and Ghibli movies top the box office.

But anyway, I think you're kind of right. There's absolutely a barrier to entry for anime and manga, and it's a tough ask to get people to overcome it. But it's not an insurmountable hurdle were a media company dedicated enough. I think the main issue is that rights-holders are reluctant to make that kind of push, because the returns are really uncertain, especially for companies more interested in their domestic market.

It took superheroes decades to make it into the American mainstream, and it didn't turn into the phenomenon it is today until a major media company saw enough of a pattern of scattered success in comic films to decide to buy a comic company and make a huge push. Efforts to sell anime and manga outside of their native format have more or less all been failures (like, say, the Dragonball Hollywood movie), and companies are still gun-shy after the crash of the US anime retail market in the mid 2000s.

There are some movie companies developing manga adaptations like Akira and Ghost in the Shell. If one of those succeeds, it could lead to more efforts. But someone has to plant that seed. There are absolutely issues with content in a lot of anime (you... really don't want to know more about Araragi's interest in Hachikuji), but if Hollywood could turn Wanted, a comic about villains ruling the world and raping and killing at their leisure, into a story about assassins protecting the world from the shadows, nothing is impossible.

 

[anaron]

So I went to crunchyroll to sign up and give it a shot and this is what I see on the front page, I wonder what mainstream audiences might have issues with.

yup.

until mainstream anime decides to abandon that creepy pedo-ey shit, it'll be rightfully tainted territory.

 

[MogCakes]

I'd put another explanation as it being a clash of ages. The article mentions that many anime viewers fade out after a couple years because they get into it in their teens, AKA it mostly being a phase that gets grown out of once they reach adulthood. I'd wager when you have a wife/husband and kid, shows featuring questionable themes won't appeal much. By comparison, the Avengers is completely tame and safe for all ages providing violence isn't banished from the kids' entertainment regiment.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

Lots of anime is downright creepy and studios or networks don't want to touch that. It's why certain things get brought over here like Ghibli or more "manime" (Ninja Scroll, Perfect Blue, Akira, etc.) but not ecchi show # 1912919. I like to watch anime and this season I am only watching 3: Noragami, One-Punch Man, and Ushio and Tora. While not totally offending even those shows show their creepiness sometimes.

 

[TheSeks]

The reason why is two fold:

-Loli
and
-Loli defenders

I mean if you like creepy moe pantsu shit with girls that are drawn to look under-age, good for you. But that doesn't mean everyone else wants to see that. It's part of the problem with anime/manga currently. There's that stigma that that is all that is there.

There's very little "Cowboy Bebop" level of anime/manga that can transcend that wall/barrier and get people to look at the art-form.

Plus, (and this is just me) I don't like how Manga is being left "on the table" with ever going story-lines. Berserk still isn't finished. Neither is Naruto (well I guess that did finish this year. Didn't pay attention to that) or some other IP's from the past ten years. While the Walking Dead, the X-men, etc. are ever-going they at least have some plotpoints that end and don't feel like "filler."

As “GAF” Culture Assimilates, “Anime Avatars” Remain Outcasts

I love this post.

If otaku are outcasts, what are bronies?

Furry outcasts?

 

[Stumpokapow]

What? The most obvious reason that anime doesn't get the same coverage despite the fact its selling gangbusters and has huge attendance at conventions is that those outlets have no stake in anime or do not have people interested in covering it. Geek websites and mainstream media aren't required to cover everything for one and if the writers aren't interested or themselves do not consider anime to be a part of their sphere, then of course it wouldn't get articles written about them. Things would immediately change if the writing staff was changed out with folks that were more aware of anime in general.

Why do you think they cover Dragonball, Pokemon, and Ghibli stuff? Why do you think they (geek/mainstream media) wouldn't want a stake in an industry that the OP argues is highly profitable? The OP's article asks why LootCrate doesn't have anime stuff. It'd certainly sell. Why do you think there's a divide between the worlds? Why does AX get no coverage while Comiccon does? How did Comiccon break through? We're not just talking about Wil Wheaton here, we're talking about big, mainstream outlets too.

If the explanation is as simple as the fact that Marvel has made movies and anime hasn't, then fair enough--although one wonders why Marvel was able to break through and anime wasn't. Marvel breaking through was enabled by the routinization of CG starting around Spiderman becoming big. The technology is there to make a big budget anime or a live action adaptation of an anime brand. Attempts to do so have largely alienated the core anime audience (for being inauthentic) and not gained the western audience they were chasing.

If the only issue is that geek writers don't know enough about anime, what's stopping them from learning? Do you think it's just a matter of time, where Chris Hardwick will post about Azumanga Daioh and then problem solved? I dunno man. If he doesn't know about it, I don't think it's a coincidence, I think it's something structured about how the public face of the content and the community is hostile.

 

[dity]

I used to be a very big anime fan, keeping an anime list and watching like 10 shows a season.

I think the content within anime is why it's still niche but well known. It's hard to explain since I'm expecting someone to jump down my throat at any negatives I might bring up, but man do you get sick of the usual "humour" in anime. Even the more serious series can't escape stuff like "uh oh I saw Hitomo-chan in the shower!" or "oops I touched your boob!" I know there's a ton of anime sub-genres, but if it has a male MC generally it's going to be filled with that kind of content.

Honestly I think all-ages primetime anime seems to be much more popular than the late night anime your average western anime fan likes. Primetime anime doesn't fall back on the stuff I mentioned above.

 

[Puruzi]

Holy shit people took the OP in the Anime thread seriously

 

[Trojita]

I'd put another explanation as it being a clash of ages. The article mentions that many anime viewers fade out after a couple years because they get into it in their teens, AKA it mostly being a phase that gets grown out of once they reach adulthood. I'd wager when you have a wife/husband and kid, shows featuring questionable themes won't appeal much. By comparison, the Avengers is completely tame and safe for all ages providing violence isn't banished from the kids' entertainment regiment.

The funny thing is that comics have their own seedy side as well, that gets ignored though.

Purple man mind control raping Jessica Jones for months.

Antman beating his wife.

Most comic female heroes having big breasts.

That's not even talking about the adult centric comics.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I used to be a very big anime fan, keeping an anime list and watching like 10 shows a season.

I think the content within anime is why it's still niche but well known. It's hard to explain since I'm expecting someone to jump down my throat at any negatives I might bring up, but man do you get sick of the usual "humour" in anime. Even the more serious series can't escape stuff like "uh oh I saw Hitomo-chan in the shower!" or "oops I touched your boob!" I know there's a ton of anime sub-genres, but if it has a male MC generally it's going to be filled with that kind of content.

Honestly I think all-ages primetime anime seems to be much more popular than the late night anime your average western anime fan likes. Primetime anime doesn't fall back on the stuff I mentioned above.

The key is to stop watching LN adaptations.

And i don't pay much attention to when something airs so I couldn't tell you.

 

[Paracelsus]

For some reason people seems to think that with literaly every medium if you go prude, you make up for the loss of the hardcore audience with the mainstream.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

yup.

until mainstream anime decides to abandon that creepy pedo-ey shit, it'll be rightfully tainted territory.

That's not mainstream, Naruto, One Piece, DBZ, Bleach, HunterxHunter, Sword Art Online, Attack on Titan, Assassination Classroom or Kuroko no Basket are mainstream. You won't find those kind of things in the majority of them.

It's a vocal niche that is willing to spend a lot of money on what the like, they do not represent mainstream anime or even anime in general.

 

[Tohsaka]

yup.

until mainstream anime decides to abandon that creepy pedo-ey shit, it'll be rightfully tainted territory.

I don't think you know what "mainstream anime" really is. The shows that rely heavily on fanservice tend to be be relatively niche. The stuff that's really popular like Attack on Titan, Tokyo Ghoul, etc. don't actually have much of it.

 

[Tobor]

Other than Battle Angel Alita, what adaptations are happening? Akira fell through, right?

 

[Trojita]

The reason why is two fold:

-Loli
and
-Loli defenders

I mean if you like creepy moe pantsu shit with girls that are drawn to look under-age, good for you. But that doesn't mean everyone else wants to see that. It's part of the problem with anime/manga currently. There's that stigma that that is all that is there.

There's very little "Cowboy Bebop" level of anime/manga that can transcend that wall/barrier and get people to look at the art-form.

Plus, (and this is just me) I don't like how Manga is being left "on the table" with ever going story-lines. Berserk still isn't finished. Neither is Naruto (well I guess that did finish this year. Didn't pay attention to that) or some other IP's from the past ten years. While the Walking Dead, the X-men, etc. are ever-going they at least have some plotpoints that end and don't feel like "filler."



I love this post.



Furry outcasts?

You are extolling the virtues of Walking Dead and X-men in that they have plot points even when they are ever-going over something like Berserk?

Top lol

Japan also is different in that most authors work on their own property exclusively. There are conglomerate publishers, but artists and writers aren't spread between different properties, moving all the time.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Other than Battle Angel Alita, what adaptations are happening? Akira fell through, right?

Alita, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Death Note etc have all been in that state of fluctuation for a long, LONG time. It's just best to assume that none of them will ever happen.

It's kind of the same thing as video game movies where yes, that one movie could come out, be good, make it big and kickstart a new thing like Iron Man did. But these kinds of movies seem to get trapped in production hell forever and when they do come out, they suck.

 

[Toxi]

You are extolling the virtues of Walking Dead and X-men in that they have plot points even when they are ever-going over something like Berserk?

You actually think Berserk will be ever end?

 

[Jarmel]

Other than Battle Angel Alita, what adaptations are happening? Akira fell through, right?

Death Note is definitely happening. Ghost in the Shell is as well.

Alita, Akira, Ghost in the Shell, Death Note etc have all been in that state of fluctuation for a long, LONG time. It's just best to assume that none of them will ever happen.

Akira is dead in the water but the other two are almost certainly coming out.

 

[PdotMichael]

For some reason people seems to think that with literaly every medium if you go prude, you make up for the loss of the hardcore audience with the mainstream.

The point is more that comic movies and series are streamlined as hell. Hollywood found a working formula using more or less well-known names and pulling out an action movie with them.

There is also a reason why there not a single animated big super hero movie, because the mainstream appeal isn't there.

 

[mdubs]

I would give anything for HBO to hand Del Torro approval for his Monster adaption. That would get some crossover happening pretty quick between the anime and mainstream geek fandoms

 

[MogCakes]

The funny thing is that comics have their own seedy side as well, that gets ignored though.

That's not even talking about the adult centric comics.

Absolutely, and I think there's a parallel to be drawn there. The part of the comic community that became mainstream was heavily filtered out of the more questionable elements when being put to film. I used to be a library aide some years ago and I got to read a lot of those comics in my downtime. They're a different world from their movie counterparts.

 

[Azuran]

Plus, (and this is just me) I don't like how Manga is being left "on the table" with ever going story-lines. Berserk still isn't finished. Neither is Naruto (well I guess that did finish this year. Didn't pay attention to that) or some other IP's from the past ten years. While the Walking Dead, the X-men, etc. are ever-going they at least have some plotpoints that end and don't feel like "filler."

Berserk shouldn't be used as an example for anything considering its irregular schedule it's not very common in the industry. Most manga have a set schedule with a constant stream of new chapters every month or so.

Berserk doesn't have filler either. If you read the manga from start to the latest chapter without a 3 year wait between volumes, you'll quickly notice the story actually has a good pace.

 

[Trojita]

You actually think Berserk will be ever end?

No, of course not. It still has more concentrated greatness over the X-men, which of course has more material printed. The great stories are few and far between.

 

[Mauricio_Magus]

The reason why is two fold:

-Loli
and
-Loli defenders

I mean if you like creepy moe pantsu shit with girls that are drawn to look under-age, good for you. But that doesn't mean everyone else wants to see that. It's part of the problem with anime/manga currently. There's that stigma that that is all that is there.

There's very little "Cowboy Bebop" level of anime/manga that can transcend that wall/barrier and get people to look at the art-form.

Plus, (and this is just me) I don't like how Manga is being left "on the table" with ever going story-lines. Berserk still isn't finished. Neither is Naruto (well I guess that did finish this year. Didn't pay attention to that) or some other IP's from the past ten years. While the Walking Dead, the X-men, etc. are ever-going they at least have some plotpoints that end and don't feel like "filler."

Almost no Manga has more than one author, reboots, or any of that crap. It's way more personal than comics will ever be.

And that's why Hunter x Hunter and Berserk will never fucking end and we will cry about it forever.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Akira is dead in the water but the other two are almost certainly coming out.

I refuse to say this until I am sitting there watching it

I would give anything for HBO to hand Del Torro approval for his Monster adaption. That would get some crossover happening pretty quick between the anime and mainstream geek fandoms

Urasawa's manga might resonate better with the West, yeah.

The point is more that comic movies and series are streamlined as hell. Hollywood found a working formula using more or less well-known names and pulling out an action movie with them.

There is also a reason why there not a single animated big super hero movie, because the mainstream appeal isn't there.

There was Big Hero 6!!!!!

(I know that isn't what you mean)

Spoiler

Mask of the Phantasm is the best superhero movie anyway

 

[KirbYuuYuu]

I used to be a very big anime fan, keeping an anime list and watching like 10 shows a season.

I think the content within anime is why it's still niche but well known. It's hard to explain since I'm expecting someone to jump down my throat at any negatives I might bring up, but man do you get sick of the usual "humour" in anime. Even the more serious series can't escape stuff like "uh oh I saw Hitomo-chan in the shower!" or "oops I touched your boob!" I know there's a ton of anime sub-genres, but if it has a male MC generally it's going to be filled with that kind of content.

Honestly I think all-ages primetime anime seems to be much more popular than the late night anime your average western anime fan likes. Primetime anime doesn't fall back on the stuff I mentioned above.

This is because Light novels begun to plague anime with its shit even harder, which is partly why you have shows with long ass titles like Oreimo.

 

[Stumpokapow]

You are extolling the virtues of Walking Dead and X-men in that they have plot points even when they are ever-going over something like Berserk?

Top lol

The frame here is that there's a perception problem. So pointing out that people are wrong in their perceptions doesn't seem to be a refutation of them, it seems to confirm the problem. What's the strategy to overcome it? If anime's content is no weirder than content that is mainstream, how do you propose to get people to realize that? You have people outside the anime bubble saying they're being turned away. If the response is "well, that's their problem, how closed-minded!" then sure, ok, great. That's the answer to the OP and we can all move on with our lives. But if there's actually desire to overcome the perception problem, how should that happen?

 

[Paracelsus]

The point is more that comic movies and series are streamlined as hell. Hollywood found a working formula using more or less well-known names and pulling out an action movie with them.

There is also a reason why there not a single animated big super hero movie, because the mainstream appeal isn't there.

Is the comic market as idea-saturated as the Japanese market is? Do you have a bag full of "oh, hey, another [INSERT REHASHED CONCEPT] series from a LN" each season? Honest question, I really have no clue.

 

[dity]

The key is to stop watching LN adaptations.

And i don't pay much attention to when something airs so I couldn't tell you.

Come on, even the most popular stuff like Clannad which is adapted from VNs has that's stuff lol.

 

[Parallax]

The funny thing is that comics have their own seedy side as well, that gets ignored though.

Purple man mind control raping Jessica Jones for months.

Antman beating his wife.

Most comic female heroes having big breasts.

That's not even talking about the adult centric comics.

none of that gets ignored.

 

[Jarmel]

The frame here is that there's a perception problem. So pointing out that people are wrong in their perceptions doesn't seem to be a refutation of them, it seems to confirm the problem. What's the strategy to overcome it? If anime's content is no weirder than content that is mainstream, how do you propose to get people to realize that? You have people outside the anime bubble saying they're being turned away. If the response is "well, that's their problem, how closed-minded!" then sure, ok, great. That's the answer to the OP and we can all move on with our lives. But if there's actually desire to overcome the perception problem, how should that happen?

Probably have some Hollywood blockbusters come out that aren't total trash. Worked for comic books.

 

[Toxi]

The funny thing is that comics have their own seedy side as well, that gets ignored though.

Antman beating his wife.

Not sure if that counts as something ignored when practically every discussion of the character pre-movie included it.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Is the comic market as idea-saturated as the Japanese market is? Do you have a bag full of "oh, hey, another [INSERT REHASHED CONCEPT] series from a LN" each season? Honest question, I really have no clue.

Comics to me as someone who pretty much stopped reading trades because I got sick of ti have almost the same problem of a massive over reliance on the same ideas but worse because nothing ever sticks. Wolverine, Spider-Man, Superman can't die forever so they gotta dredge em up to tell the same story.

Come on, even the most popular stuff like Clannad which is adapted from VNs has that's stuff lol.

VNs also suck

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

I'm fine with this, if only because Americans (and the West in general, although Italy and France are trying) need to start taking their own animation more seriously. I feel like Gravity Falls is one of the best looking shows made in the US, which is kind of sad when you compare it to the stuff that finds it's way out of Japan.

In fact, Cartoons in general are pretty limited here, largely because they almost all come out of CalArts graduates. If you don't live in that one area, go to that one school and make connections with one of like three studios, you have little to no chance of ever getting your scripts animated.

 

[MogCakes]

But if there's actually desire to overcome the perception problem, how should that happen?

The only successful method that has been proven to work is that which the comic industry went through. Filter out the more morally questionable elements, sanitizing if you will, and then market the hell out of them. Hollywood has Marvel movies down to a science.

 

[PdotMichael]

Is the comic market as idea-saturated as the Japanese market is? Do you have a bag full of "oh, hey, another [INSERT REHASHED CONCEPT] series from a LN" each season? Honest question, I really have no clue.

If we talking about the big ones like DC and Marvel then I think you can't claim that the comic market isn't idea-saturated as hell.

 

[anaron]

The funny thing is that comics have their own seedy side as well, that gets ignored though.

Purple man mind control raping Jessica Jones for months.

Antman beating his wife.

Most comic female heroes having big breasts.

That's not even talking about the adult centric comics.

LOL

none of that is ever ignored? Those first two issues are behind entire storylines and in Jessica's case, is part of shaping her entire character and arc.

 

[Jarmel]

I'm fine with this, if only because Americans (and the West in general, although Italy and France are trying) need to start taking their own animation more seriously. I feel like Gravity Falls is one of the best looking shows made in the US, which is kind of sad when you compare it to the stuff that finds it's way out of Japan.

In fact, Cartoons in general are pretty limited here, largely because they almost all come out of CalArts graduates. If you don't live in that one area, go to that one school and make connections with one of like three studios, you have little to no chance of ever getting your scripts animated.

The US has pretty much given up on 2D.

 

[sonicmj1]

I'd put another explanation as it being a clash of ages. The article mentions that many anime viewers fade out after a couple years because they get into it in their teens, AKA it mostly being a phase that gets grown out of once they reach adulthood. I'd wager when you have a wife/husband and kid, shows featuring questionable themes won't appeal much. By comparison, the Avengers is completely tame and safe for all ages providing violence isn't banished from the kids' entertainment regiment.

Well, let's look at an example from the article.

Attack on Titan sold 2.5 million copies in English. The anime series is airing dubbed on late night television in America. It's a show with no sexual elements, with a very European-styled setting, tapping into themes already popular in a lot of Western shows. It's the closest thing to a breakthrough success that anime/manga has had in nearly a decade.

The only thing about it that will reach people who are not already following anime and manga is a pair of CG-filled Japanese live-action movies that are now showing in a handful of American theaters. They're bad and nobody is going to watch them, but they're stuff already produced for the Japanese domestic market, so they're very safe.

As with video games, nobody wants to take a risk on this stuff when they have safe options that they know will produce profit.

 

[Daingurse]

Almost no Manga has more than one author, reboots, or any of that crap. It's way more personal than comics will ever be.

And that's why Hunter x Hunter and Berserk will never fucking end and we will cry about it forever.

Indeed, no one has me by the balls quite like Togashi.