Way too early, I'd think. Han and Chewie going off to aid the liberation of the Wookiees happens only 3 or 4 months after Endor.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Way too early, I'd think. Han and Chewie going off to aid the liberation of the Wookiees happens only 3 or 4 months after Endor.
E the Shaggy
Junior Member
I'm betting Kylo Ren and Rey are Leia and Han's kids and they're going with an arc similar to the Jacen/Jaina from Legacy of the Force.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Probably not. Neither Han nor Leia seem to interact with her as if she's their long-lost kid. And she certainly doesn't seem to know who they are outside of vague "stories."
I like this.
Zero chance. Kennedy made that clear. These are the Skywalker saga movies.
Hence, no expectations.
Yeah, fat chance of that happening. Kennedy stated that the saga movies are the story of the Skywalker family.
There's still the Anthology movies though!
prag16
Banned
Nevermind that it's never EVER going to happen (spoiler alert: episodes X-XII will involve Skywalkers too)...
I don't understand this assertion by some that mainline movies being centered around the Skywalker family somehow makes the franchise worse or less interesting. It's a really really odd complaint. The reasons why the prequels were "bad" weren't because they had to do with Skywalkers (sidenote, I'm very much NOT in that "fuck the prequels completely" camp).
I mean, do you not like Luke Skywalker the character? Do you now like Anakin Skywalker the character? (Okay, don't answer that second one.)
"No expectations." As if you'd expect it to be much better if there were no Skywalkers involved? Really weird stance.
I would expect it to be better if it wasn't centered around the Skywalkers.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm dead serious when I say the "seedy underbelly" is my favorite part of the SW universe. Those dudes who could give a flying fuck about the Force and Skywalkers and Rebels vs the Empire. Just street fighters and bounty hunters and space pirates trying to make their way through a dangerous galaxy. Really expands the universe.
As a kid, my dream SW movie wasn't about Luke training new Jedis, it was actually closer to AOTC's Obi-Wan stuff. A Courscant private investigator tied up in a big snowballing murder mystery, visiting all kind of sketchy places with weird aliens, playing Rebels against the Empire but on neither side...Blade Runner but with a saturday matinee adventure feel of Star Wars/Indiana Jones.
prag16
Banned
That's an extremely strange assertion and expectation. I mean... based on what???
- 2 of 6 Skywalker films are actually good.
- It's contrived nonsense- I'd have the same complaint if the Jedi Exile was Revan's secret daughter/son
- The best SW properties don't have them.
- There is no expectation. Hence "no expectations. I fully expect the films to have them and I don't plan to go in with any expectations for it.
KOTOR 2 had both the force, and the dirty ass-end of the galaxy and it was damn brilliant.
I'm the complete opposite. I find the criminal stuff usually kind of boring if it's not tied into the Jedi plot, and sometimes it's a slog for me to read through stuff about smugglers and bounty hunters and pirates. My favorite aspects of Star Wars were always the Force users and the space politics.
Luckily the franchise is big enough to cater to all of us.
What you want isn't a Star Wars Saga film. The Star Wars Saga is about Skywalker family drama. Always has been and will be for the foreseeable future. That's the story and what everything revolves around. It is like wanting a Godfather film not about the Corleone's. That is what the anthology films are for.
tiredheadcrab
Member
Yeah about the whole Darth Sidious isnt Palpatine. My friends and I were basically Star Wars nerds when TPM came out. Basically my two friends thought there were not the same person. Yeah they are fuck wits. I mean there were many hints in the TPM alone. Even the camera panned to him at the funeral.
Also someone is saying the artbook image leak isnt real. I wonder whats at play here?
BTW I never really liked MSW and Manbyte. They sometimes can be chumps and there always seemed to be some Drama floating around them.
Also someone is saying the artbook image leak isnt real. I wonder whats at play here?
BTW I never really liked MSW and Manbyte. They sometimes can be chumps and there always seemed to be some Drama floating around them.
The Star Wars spoiler online community has always been full of endless e-drama since its inception with the Phantom Menace spoilers. MF.com the sort of birth place of all this and it's drama still has bitterness and petty personal attacks in the middle of the spoilers leaks to this day.
Bobby Roberts, Manabyte, Jason Ward, Darth Psychotic, and a few others have been part of this world from day 1 from what I recall from lurking in those days. Bobby was a moderator over at StarWars.com for part of the prequel era of this. It's a long crazy weird drama filled world in this Star Wars spoiler world. It's crazy how long it's lasted honestly.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I was a pretty big asshole back then.
I've gotten a little smaller since, though.
I think more or less being away from it for like 7-8 years really helped there.
I've gotten a little smaller since, though.
I think more or less being away from it for like 7-8 years really helped there.
tiggerkiddo
Member
After reading the spoilers, I think that's only heightened my excitement to see this movie. I am encouraged that they are doing other SW movies that will revolve around other characters at least.
Ever ban anyone when you were at StarWars.com? That board was a big mess.
I remember obsessing over those Rick McCallum threads where he would answer questions, hah.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
God, a fucking TON.
I remember finding out there was fan-fiction with me in it at one point. That was weird.
You made a mistake in quitting it seems. Back in those days Pablo Hidalgo's job was just fan community nonsense guy and having that web cam everyone obsessed over (myself included. That was for Episode II I think?) And look at him now.
tiredheadcrab
Member
What is mf.com? I only read theforce.net and that was during AOTC filming. I stopped going there after the movie came out as i didnt really care because I knew what was gonna happen and such. They would always photoshop these images on top of each other and repeat the same shit every now and again. Also what is so special about Jason Ward?
Manabyte has always sort of annoyed me outside of Star Wars. His whole "If you believe this then you are X" kind of annoys me and he paints people under 1 umbrella all the time.
You could have been the one guarding your coffee on Rebels Recon, Bobby.
It could have been you.
http://millenniumfalcon.com/phpbb/index.php
Still to this day one of the biggest sources of leaks. Jason Ward and Bobby were both big there in the early prequel days. I lurked lol.
Jason hit the big time with MakingStarWars.net.
Curious to see his plans post TFA. His bread and butter is spoilers. If he doesn't get sources for Episode 8 and so on I am not sure what happens.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I dunno - I was a volunteer mod on a forum. He was a paid employee who wasn't showing his ass on the internet every other day. I don't think there was any real career path there for me, comparatively, heh. Although I ended up having to talk with him (and Bonnie Burton) really frequently what with having to keep the boards in shape, and it was always super-cool. But I'm under no delusions that had I stuck around I'd have been called up to the big leagues for anything. I don't think it's ever really worked that way. Besides which, like I've said - I was a big asshole back then. I probably would have fucked it up even if it'd worked that way.
Besides which, I wound up getting a job in broadcasting shortly afterwards anyway, and a LOT of really cool shit happened in that decade that I wouldn't trade for anything.
Well even post-Story Group Pablo still clearly gets into the Internet fanboy mode once in a while if someone sets him off and he'll start arguing with people over things. It's entertaining he still has the fanboy in him and didn't fully sell out lol.
prag16
Banned
4 of 6 at least. Agree to disagree.
Every work of fiction is by definition "contrived" to some extent. And I don't agree that your KOTOR example is equivalent.
Debatable, but I'd likely again disagree.
I interpreted "no expectations" to mean general movie quality rather than "no expectations" for it to be Skywalker-free. My fault.
Bottom line, "Star Wars sux dix because Skywalkers" is a bizarre (and rare) complaint. I've seen a few other people make similar assertions so it's not just you I'm trying to pick on or anything. Just really weird that all else equal, you'd expect it to automatically be better if there were no Skywalkers.
It's not like it would automatically be worse if Snoke was Plagueis or if Finn was related to Lando. It's all about the execution. (Though I know there are a ton of people who WOULD think these things would automatically make it worse, the militant anti-Plagueis faction right in this thread as exhibit A, haha, joking, sort of.. some of you HAVE gotten a little aggressive).
Exactly how many of the non-Skywalker films have been good?
I never said the movies suck because the Skywalkers are in it, I think they're lesser for it.
The nearly unquestioned best things in the franchise that pretty much everyone agrees on and is the source of nearly everyone's fandom: A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back. Pure Skywalker family drama.
Almost no one picks an EU novel or some video game or something over the double gold standard of IV and V for a reason. Luke and Vader is why everyone loves this stuff. And why it's what the franchise revolves around to this day.
By everyone I don't mean literally everyone but 99.999% is. safe percentage here.
I learned in grade school that was a logical fallacy, didn't you? The stories in the KOTOR games outstrip IV and V precisely because it doesn't follow family junk.
prag16
Banned
How so. How would they automatically be better without Skywalkers. What's the problem?
And yeah, what Cheebo said.
Yes, but I thought that was a given. A common truth.
Better than ESB/ANH? Very lonely club there man.
KOTOR stories were good for early 2000s video game plots. Even to this day supposed high art video games would be a laughing stock as films. We aren't talking about comparing them to classic movies, really?
tiredheadcrab
Member
Spoiler leak, The Knights of Ren are a cult that worships the rancor from ROTJ. Mark my words. Bring on the interwebs drama!!!
This time next week ill be watching this movie. I am so excited.
This time next week ill be watching this movie. I am so excited.
What? Of course KOTOR 1 and 2 have better stories than IV and V, anything else would be absurd.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I remember telling Lilith in the Yub Nub thread that there were fans like diaspora out there.
To each their reach and all that. I'd imagine there's going to be plenty of movies and TV shows that offer opportunities to get any fan's specific fix of Star Wars.
But the numbered Star Wars films are more than likely ALWAYS going to have a Skywalker in them. However, as Creed's recently proved - making the Skywalker a supporting character at some point would be a fun twist worth exploring.
And while I disagree that the stories in the KOTOR games are better than the stories in Star Wars and Empire, I don't think it does those stories any favors to suggest the MAIN reason they're better is because the characters aren't named Skywalker. Those stories work regardless what any of the characters are named. It's actually doing those stories a disservice to sum up their positives with "Not Skywalker."
To each their reach and all that. I'd imagine there's going to be plenty of movies and TV shows that offer opportunities to get any fan's specific fix of Star Wars.
But the numbered Star Wars films are more than likely ALWAYS going to have a Skywalker in them. However, as Creed's recently proved - making the Skywalker a supporting character at some point would be a fun twist worth exploring.
And while I disagree that the stories in the KOTOR games are better than the stories in Star Wars and Empire, I don't think it does those stories any favors to suggest the MAIN reason they're better is because the characters aren't named Skywalker. Those stories work regardless what any of the characters are named. It's actually doing those stories a disservice to sum up their positives with "Not Skywalker."
Inferno313
Banned
But... The story of the mainline Star Wars saga is the Skywalkers. Good films are about people above all else, not things or ideas.
prag16
Banned
I feel like they already did that to an extent with the prequels. That trilogy was almost as much about Obi Wan as it was about Anakin, to a greater extent than say Han vs. Luke in the OT. At least that was my feel for it.
Agree on the KOTOR comments as well.
And it turns out the founder of the Knights is none other than our good friend, the fat rancor keeper!
I misread this initially and thought it said "racer" instead of rancor, as in pod racer. And then I realized that they do worship a pod racer.
I'm very tired.
I am assuming that isn't going to be a clear takeaway when you say KOTOR is better than A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.
That really doesn't explain why the OT would be better served not being about Luke and Vader. Or why family drama is a negative for the sequel trilogy. I means it's a numbered Saga film. It wouldn't make sense for no Skywalkers. It's like going to a Batman movie without anyone as Batman. Or as recently mentioned, a Rocky movie without a Balboa, be it supporting or leading character.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Absolutely wasn't.
You probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere near as much pushback if it was: A lot of people feel like one of the bigger problems with the Prequel Trilogy was that there wasn't a clear POV character like with the OT, and Anakin is nominally that POV character, but not really, and even when he is, it's not like we like him, so it makes for awkward viewing. Making Ben the lead, flat-out, and relegating Anakin to a supporting role would have cleaned a LOT of the characterization and narrative problems up tremendously.
But that's a long way from advocating that "no Skywalkers" is the trick to making good Star Wars.
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