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[VanquishUK]

They look the same to me. Just different color correcting.

One is shades of green with orange sweatband things, the other is shades of blue with yellow sweatbands. I wanna say I prefer blue but blue has always been Vegeta's color.

EDIT: I think the blue one is from GT's ending and the green one is from Z's ending.

EDIT 2: Nope GT he had yellow trousers and pink sweatbands. I don't know.

 

[Pankratous]

If Gohan was still full power ala Super Buu fight, how well would he stand against Frieza anyway?

Stronger than first form at least, surely?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

The first two pictures aren't even the same. I think I prefer the current ones in Super.

They're the same, it's just a difference in coloring/art style.

Same issue with his classic gi:

 

[Ennosuke]

The last episode was really sad. Seeing Gohan like this ... I hope this is the turning point where they make him a great fighter again.

So Goku has to fight as a Super Saiyan God next episode? Which means Freezer became with 4 months of training a "god"? He should get easily destroyed by Goku or Vegeta.

 

[Alienous]

ugh, what a joke...dat animation...dose stills


Vegeta and Fat Buu seem to be the biggest offender.


side-note are the new outfits permanent? Not that Vegetas and gokus are bad, but I like the old ones better.


And when did Goku learn how to SSJBlue...? In the dimension?

What the fuck.

Spend some money on it, Toei, jesus.

 

[Deadstar]

Skinny Gohan in the tracksuit is and always will be horrible. They ruined his character.

 

[Kagari]

Next episode summary is out:

Spoiler

Freeza has a burning desire for revenge against Goku, while Goku explodes with anger over Piccolo's death! Their anger clashes and a fierce battle unfolds, until Vegeta suddenly interrupts!?

Jaco's ship is knocked down by a ki attack from Goku and Freeza. Jaco attempts to put out a fire?!

 

[EightBitNate]

Found this on r/DBZ:

Episode 23 of Super featured wildly inconsistent animation, but each felt like a throwback to the history of the franchise…

1. Ishikawa’s impressive close-up of Goku in Super reflects the work of Maeda found in Episode 90 of Z.

2. The weaker part B of Episode 23 featured many shots that hark back to the days of Uchiyama’s somewhat shoddy animation.

3. Kinoshita’s Goku, with his misshapen ears, and peculiar proportions bring back memories of Ebisawa’s recognisable style.

4. One Piece veteran, Naoki Tate, brings a little bit of Luffy into his heart-breaking rendition of Gohan’s power-up.

 

[Mxrz]

Enjoying it so far. The two guys basing their entire lives around fighting/training should be stronger than the Magical asspull power up Special that was Gohan in the past stuff. Hopefully Piccolo and Buu don't get superduper sudden power ups either. Both should still be top tier in their universe anyway.

 

[J-Rod]

I don't like Gohan, but I definitely think they are setting up a comeback. Gohan fans should believe.

This episode is also why I like vegeta. He doesn't mind killing people. His only job is to get his ass kicked to show how strong a foe is before goku swoops in to save the day OR to kill minor villians toei is finished writing about without tarnishing the image of the good guys (aka doing wet work for goku).

It bothers me that goku, and to a lesser extent, gohan are fine with letting Frieza or any villian leave and enslave the rest of the galaxy just as long as it isn't in their backyard. Even in their first meeting, when goku tried to walk away, frieza says he will survive the planet explosion and go kill goku's family and the earth, and goku is just like, "k".

 

[Alienous]

The animation is just fucking awful.

It's Dragon Ball. Don't be so stingy with the animation budget, Toei.

 

[Ishida]

So people despised Gohan going Super Saiyan in GT because all that Mystic Gohan stuff. And then Dragon Ball Super goes and does the same?

 

[Kagari]

The animation is just fucking awful.

It's Dragon Ball. Don't be so stingy with the animation budget, Toei.

Sailormoon Crystal's treatment cut me deep.

 

[Effect]

So people despised Gohan going Super Saiyan in GT because all that Mystic Gohan stuff. And then Dragon Ball Super goes and does the same?

It's actually worse here because Gohan can barely do it here.

 

[Ishida]

It's actually worse here because Gohan can barely do it here.

GT Gohan in his base form at least could mantain a battle (Albeit short) against a full Super Saiyan Goten.

 

[Kagari]

So people despised Gohan going Super Saiyan in GT because all that Mystic Gohan stuff. And then Dragon Ball Super goes and does the same?

The official guidebooks say he could still use SSJ even after the Old Kai unlock, which is probably what GT used as justification since the GT Perfect Files state he did continue training following the end of Buu/Z.

Super's made it so he pretty much has to go SSJ to get back to or close to his unlocked power due to lack of training.

 

[Alienous]

They need to bring Future Trunks back so he can express his disappointment in Gohan.

 

[Ishida]

The official guidebooks say he could still use SSJ even after the Old Kai unlock, which is probably what GT used as justification since the GT Perfect Files state he did continue training following the end of Buu/Z.

Super's made it so he pretty much has to go SSJ to get back to or close to his unlocked power due to lack of training.

I never quite understood the "Mystic" state.

I thought that Old Kai basically unlocked Gohan's full potential on his base form? But since Super Saiyan is basically a power multiplier, wouldn't going Super Saiyan with a Mystic base form be more powerful?

Or is the Mystic state so powerful that actually nullifies the multiplying effects of the Super Saiyan?

 

[Alienous]

I never quite understood the "Mystic" state.

I thought that Old Kai basically unlocked Gohan's full potential on his base form? But since Super Saiyan is basically a power multiplier, wouldn't going Super Saiyan with a Mystic base form be more powerful?

Or is the Mystic state so powerful that actually nullifies the multiplying effects of the Super Saiyan?

Didn't Old Kai way that the 'Mystic' state made Super Saiyan irrelevant?

So yeah, as you said, I imagine that it's a full potential unlock, so any transformations thereafter have no effect.

 

[Ishida]

Didn't Old Kai way that the 'Mystic' state made Super Saiyan irrelevant?

So yeah, as you said, I imagine that it's a full potential unlock, so any transformations thereafter have no effect.

Mmhh I see. I guess the Super Saiyan form was just too iconic to be let go, either by TOEI alone (GT) or by Toriyama (Super).

 

[Kagari]

I never quite understood the "Mystic" state.

I thought that Old Kai basically unlocked Gohan's full potential on his base form? But since Super Saiyan is basically a power multiplier, wouldn't going Super Saiyan with a Mystic base form be more powerful?

Or is the Mystic state so powerful that actually nullifies the multiplying effects of the Super Saiyan?

This is what Daizenshuu 2 says about that:

Daizenshuu 2 states that Gohan's dormant power is bottomless. Daizenshuu 2 also states that after his potential was released, Gohan is still capable of becoming a Super Saiyan, but even without utilizing the form he surpasses Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks in power, if Ultimate Gohan (during the Majin Buu Saga) was to become a Super Saiyan his power would likely rise to levels above even Super Buu (Gohan, Piccolo, Goten, and Trunks absorbed).

Mmhh I see. I guess the Super Saiyan form was just too iconic to be let go, either by TOEI alone (GT) or by Toriyama (Super).

Or the bigger reason: merchandising.

 

[VanquishUK]

This is what Daizenshuu 2 says about that:





Or the bigger reason: merchandising.

So Gohan lost to Super Buu on purpose?

 

[shadowsdarknes]

I don't get it. So he could have gone Super Saiyan to challenge Buutenks but didn't because???

 

[Kagari]

So Gohan lost to Super Buu on purpose?

He lost because Toriyama wanted to hand the torch back to Goku.

 

[VanquishUK]

I don't get it. So he could have gone Super Saiyan to challenge Buutenks but didn't because???

I just don't think that's correct.

 

[Ishida]

This is what Daizenshuu 2 says about that:

Or the bigger reason: merchandising.

DAMN. So that pretty much confirms that Mystic Gohan going Super Saiyan would increase his power even more! Too bad he decided to fool around with Buu instead of going SSJ and blowing his fucking head off.

Typical Gohan.

 

[shadowsdarknes]

DAMN. So that pretty much confirms that Mystic Gohan going Super Saiyan would increase his power even more! Too bad he decided to fool around with Buu instead of going SSJ and blowing his fucking head off.

Typical Gohan.

It just sounds wrong.

Gohan was clearly scared against Buutenks.
DBZ characters typically don't express fear against an opponent when they are purposely holding back.

 

[Ishida]

It just sounds wrong.

Gohan was clearly scared against Buutenks.
DBZ characters typically don't express fear against an opponent when they are purposely holding back.

Just how canon are the Daizenshuu books?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

This is the only alternate "form" Gohan should have kept after the Ultimate powerup. The glasses are even reminiscent of Master Roshi and all the other martial arts masters/gods.

 

[Russ T]

Saiyaman is and always will be the best Gohan, for sure. Damn, what a baller.

 

[Welfare]

I still want to say Gohan going SSJ is a retcon. Him going Ultimate was initiated by him trying to turn into a SSJ.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

ugh, what a joke...dat animation...dose stills

I laughed when this showed up. The worst thing is they don't even need to spend more money to save that still. If you cropped half the way up gohans legs, you'd have a much better image, even if his arms still look so stupid.

 

[Flowmoney]

I always thought Mystic was drawing out the power in your body via honing your skill and Gohan was able to get some Super Saiyan power without much energy.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Ultimate Gohan is all of Gohan's power unlocked. When Goku and gohan became full power super saiyans, they were able to save up all the energy they would have expended transforming and use it to maintain their stamina and power, and then power up even more if they had to. So while the bulkier forms used by Vegeta and Trunks were technically stronger, the full power state is more efficient because the energy isn't wasted trying to maintain the form. Gohan's state after being awakened by old kai is the exact same principle.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I always thought Mystic was drawing out the power in your body via honing your skill and Gohan was able to get some Super Saiyan power without much energy.

Yeah, it makes more sense if "Mystic" form Gohan is equal to gohan at full potential in his base form + super saiyan boosts, but saves energy because it doesn't constantly waste excess energy doing the whole light show.

It just doesn't make sense that gohan had ss1 and ss2 transformations and didn't use them against super buu, but then agreed to attempt to fuse with goku, if he really had the option of transforming.

 

[NeonZ]

So people despised Gohan going Super Saiyan in GT because all that Mystic Gohan stuff. And then Dragon Ball Super goes and does the same?

Well, the main issue is that GT never really addressed why it happened or even acknowledged it. Gohan just transforms out of nowhere with nothing said about it (and then doesn't transform in the Rildo battle in spite of almost getting killed, only to transform again later). There were also never any lines suggesting that Gohan had slacked on his training and even a line from Piccolo praising him about how strong he had gotten.

Super directly states that he hasn't trained, got weaker and that now using SSJ to draw out his full power is too much for his body.

GT Gohan in his base form at least could mantain a battle (Albeit short) against a full Super Saiyan Goten.

And Base Gohan here was apparently as strong as someone that tanked Piccolo's attack.

It just doesn't make sense that gohan had ss1 and ss2 transformations and didn't use them against super buu, but then agreed to attempt to fuse with goku, if he really had the option of transforming.

Well, it could be like what was seen here. It'd be too much for his body. He only had one month of training in 7 years for the Buu Saga.

Didn't Old Kai way that the 'Mystic' state made Super Saiyan irrelevant?

So yeah, as you said, I imagine that it's a full potential unlock, so any transformations thereafter have no effect.

The Old Kai said that transformations in general were just for show and the wrong way to do things. The only thing specifically said regarding Super Saiyan vs Ultimate state for Gohan himself was that to finish the ritual he should attempt to power up "like" the Super Saiyan bit. Now that the series continued, he was clearly wrong though. If Whis considers the SSJ transformation to have a lot of potential, than the Supreme Kai was just plain wrong. The Buu Saga itself had the characters making fun of the whole unlock potential bit when it was introduced. People only really put that much importance to it because the series originally ended there.

 

[The Silver]

So Gohan lost to Super Buu on purpose?

I really can't take that seriously cause it's such a blatant plot hole. If Gohan could've turned super saiyan to beat Gotenks Buu he would've instead of getting the shit kicked out out of him an even resorting to permanently fusing with his dad.

The way I can rationalize everything is this:

What the mystic powerup did was unleash all the power that Gohan's body could handle at the time. He COULD technically still go Super Saiyan and increase his power but he was unable to for the same reason he has trouble in Super, his body couldn't handle it. Mystic was his max unless he trained more and increased the power his body could hold.(remember Mystic Gohan is still a Gohan who hasn't trained his body seriously for 7 years)

 

[Welfare]

Gohan's body limiting his actual potential makes sense, and I guess would fit with the guide book and Old Kai. His out of shape 17 year old body wouldn't handle SSJ, and his out of shape body now has weakened far enough to where it's now possible for him to turn SSJ, and even that takes a lot out of him.

He still has a shit load of power, as seen with him powering up for Goku. His Ki can be locked on to from past the Kaioshin realm, and Super Buu was able to feel Gohan when he was in the Kaioshin realm.

If Gohan really does have unlimited potential, it could be possible for him to be brought up to speed (SSJB) before the tournament begins, if he really is going to replace Buu.

 

[Ishida]

I feel we are putting more effort into trying to explain all this than Toriyama himself. I bet if he was asked about these questions, he would shrug or ask what the hell are we talking about.

 

[Finalow]

the hilarious part is that garbage being on screen for 3-4 seconds, lol. there is no way you can't notice that, ~ar u srs Toei

kudos to them still managing to surprise me at how awful their shows can look.

 

[The Silver]

I feel we are putting more effort into trying to explain all this than Toriyama himself. I bet if he was asked about these questions, he would shrug or ask what the hell are we talking about.

nah he would just make something up on the spot

 

[Ishida]

nah he would just make something up on the spot

"A Kai did it."

 

[Linkstrikesback]

If Gohan really does have unlimited potential, it could be possible for him to be brought up to speed (SSJB) before the tournament begins, if he really is going to replace Buu.

I hope buu doesn't get replaced because he'd be more interesting than a third saiyan, much as I like gohan.

And if Gohan does for some reason get in, I hope he doesn't go the SSB route, instead trying to get back his mystic form instead of copying Goku/Vegeta, which hasn't really worked for him up to now.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I feel we are putting more effort into trying to explain all this than Toriyama himself. I bet if he was asked about these questions, he would shrug or ask what the hell are we talking about.

Toriyama's stance on power levels is "whoever the hell I want to be stronger"

 

[brinstar]

I feel we are putting more effort into trying to explain all this than Toriyama himself. I bet if he was asked about these questions, he would shrug or ask what the hell are we talking about.

pretty much. I wouldn't put much stock into any of the power level stuff at this point.

 

[Ishida]

Toriyama's stance on power levels is "whoever the hell I want to be stronger"

pretty much. I wouldn't put much stock into any of the power level stuff at this point.

"No matter who gets stronger than Goku, eventually Goku will surpass that. Every fucking time".

-Akira Toriyama.


I'm fine with that. To me, Dragon Ball is all about Goku. Never cared about Gohan, to be honest.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

So people despised Gohan going Super Saiyan in GT because all that Mystic Gohan stuff. And then Dragon Ball Super goes and does the same?

People made the same stink when he did it in BOG trailers. Then they changed it. Then he goes SSJ in later scene anyways

 

[Icyflamez96]

I wonder how Frieza would have reacted to seeing Buu if he came to the battlefield instead of being f$#@#$$ sleep

 

[Blader]

Gohan's full power was unlocked in the Kai ritual. SSJ is a power multiplier, but it's not some external factor you can tack on, it's still about unlocking whatever potential your body is capable of; so in Mystic Gohan's case, there'd be no need to go SSJ because his full power already surpasses whatever base + SSJ could produce.

In Super, Gohan's body is too out of shape in base form to draw out that level of power anymore, so he has to go SSJ to get any stronger.

This is what Daizenshuu 2 says about that:

There's no way that can hold true. If Gohan's power is bottomless, then he would've been infinitely powerful in his fight against Buu (which he wasn't). And if he could still go SSJ to power up even further, he would've done so after Buu absorbed Gotenks and was in danger for his life.

 

[Ishida]

People made the same stink when he did it in BOG trailers. Then they changed it. Then he goes SSJ in later scene anyways

Toriyama and TOEI simply don't give a fuck.