TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Vader could easily have killed him if he'd wanted to. Luke beat him to it. That he lived is beside the point.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Vader could easily have killed him if he'd wanted to. Luke beat him to it. That he lived is beside the point.
How many people of color author sci-fi scripts or books?
Literally just a few pages back people here were saying it's perfectly normal for a person of color to want a person of color in a significant role so they can relate to them better? Maybe a middle aged white guy doesn't feel like he can relate to a female Filipino girl as well as a white kid?
Well beforehand JJ, Kathleen and other production people were saying that Rian gets to take the story to wild places. I thought it was more marketing talk if anything. But seeing all these impressions it really seems that Rian gets a freepass to do whatever he wants with the characters storywise in his film.
JJ/Kasdan did the world building but the characters can be in very different places in VIII without being out of place from the sound of it.
TheOctodad
Member
What?
Possible stories out of my ass:
Rey actually falls into darkness for a time. Finn trains or fights her and brings her back eventually.
Rey is injured and is unable to fight with a lightsaber and has to mentor a group of new trainees. Finn leads the army.
Finn learns how to use the force despite him not being force sensitive.
Snoke finds a weakness in the force that actually causes force users to be sick or suffer immensely. Only a non-force user can approach Snoke to battle him in the end. The downfall of the main baddie actually requires someone with a heros heart who isn't a force user.
Just a few.
Well they're certainly not writing these either.
lol
The focus is going to be on the new Skywalker.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Do you seriously, legitimately believe they're just going to let Finn sit in a nursing facility shitting his pants while the others save the galaxy?
This is stage one of the typical hero's journey. He was over-powered and out-matched. He looks defeated. But somehow, our hero finds that the fires of justice still burn deep within him and sets off to better himself, so that the next time he faces his most treacherous adversary, the outcome will be very different.
It's screen writing 101.
TheOctodad
Member
You aren't even addressing people's rebuttals and are just being snide. Why?
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Or cram everything into a six hour, bloated mess of a movie for people too impatient to let the story of a planned trilogy play out.
Either way works.
People still think Rey is going to be a Skywalker?
Can't wait for the tears when that's officially shot down.
That is the general rebuttal. Waiting until the next film- an unknown is a pointless thing.
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
But Rey's the hero.
Cabbagehead
Member
lol wat
Got nothing to do with it. Regardless of the authors color, there are a few that do a really good job of making meaningful characters of color as main characters.
Though even still they're aren't enough and that's my point.
He's in a coma at the end of the film. He's not doing anything until 8 comes along by which I assume Rey will be a good bit along on her training.
He's going to be outmatched in 8 too considering he gets Rousey wrecked in this one already.
You must be one hell of a charming guy
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Because obviously they're just gonna leave him in the medical bay for the next two movies. Hell, they'll probably amputate his arms and legs, just for shits and giggles. Cuz they hate him and never had any plans for him. Hiring him was just a cruel joke, and they (Boyega included) should all just be ashamed of themselves.
MHWilliams
Member
Yo, I didn't mean for a war to start. I was just disappointed at no black Jedi. Sorry, y'all.
8BitsAtATime
Member
The Falcon, why was it in a junk yard or whatever?
Hopefully the actual scene is Snoke harnessing all his dark force power to turn into a giant monster, and Kylo uses his to transform into a T-Rex to fight him.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
The Force did it. "The Force, it's calling a cab for you. Just get in."
Cabbagehead
Member
Love the hyperbole.
I would pay many dollars to watch that happen and record it for my replaying pleasure.
You don't think there is some natural correlation between sci-fi things containing primarily Caucasian leads and them being mostly written by Caucasians?
If it's okay to hate a movie you've never seen because a black character doesn't have the exact role you want, why is it so bad for a middle aged white sci-fi writer to have a lot of white characters?
You want a reason for something given what this series is? The force led it to be. Destiny. Whatever.
LegalEagleMike
Member
does that mean Finn can be a raptor? He does try so hard!
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
He's the character with the most heart and courage, going toe to toe with the big bad guy despite having no formal training using a lightsaber, and surely knowing he didn't stand much of a chance.
They don't leave the most courageous character bed-ridden for long in these kinds of movies. This is act one of a three act play. Look at the OT: Part 2 is where shit really gets interesting.
Edit: Going to bed. I get if someone doesn't want to watch this out of disappointment or whatever, but to me, it seems wiser to let the actual story unfold before taking offense. If, after the next movies (hell, I bet we see the change in VIII), Finn is an underutilized ancillary character with little effect on the outcome of the story, I'll gladly join in the outrage (quote me on it).
But let's let them tell the story before we judge it to be garbage.
Cabbagehead
Member
Are we really going here? right now.
Of course there is.
But what needs to be under stood is that the world is not just Caucasian (which is reflected in what JJ said in that 60 minutes interview). Yet Sc-fi and their writers either don't want to drive that that path or its not what they want to write even though it might, be more interesting then the same old generic formula.
The raptors are all girls, so it'll be Rey. Sorry.
More_Badass
Member
You're making the assumption that you know what happens between movies or how much time passes
How would showing your lead with the lightsaber ruin the final fight? Anyone who understood she was the lead character would assume she'd be the one with the lightsaber at the climax. Doesn't make any sense.
Except the formula you have in your head for this movie is wrong. Finn isn't just some "chump" who "goes down".
I mean the guy goes with Han to the Starkiller base so he can rescue Rey. He even fights Kylo so he can protect Rey. They are demonstrating him as HEROIC. Exactly what part of that formula is making you upset?
Because that is the only time in the entire film other than her going to see Luke that she has to have the lightsaber. So the only way they could show her with it was to reveal the second half of the fight that is meant to be a "HELL YEAH" surprising moment. I really don't get why this is so hard to understand. Showing Finn with it was unavoidable since he has the thing literally attached at the hip.
Cabbagehead
Member
Also there is nothing exact about what i want with Finn. But it would be nice for him to be more then just the sacrificial side kick (Hero) yet seemingly the glorified Lightsaber carrier for the Main Hero. I mean really Maz is a dick.
He is going to be a lead character for the entire trilogy. What part of that is sacrificial? Daisy is the one who gets kidnapped because she was acting like a moron.
Freewheelin'
Member
What is everyone complaining about? That Finn isn't an all-consuming magical black man who defeats everyone with one glare?
Cabbagehead
Member
But it doesn't seem that Rey needs any real recusing, he only is there really for her to realize that she can't run any more after he gets hurt. He's the trigger.
But anything could have been the trigger. That's the issue's he's pretty much the sacrificial lamb that's holding the macguffin.
No that's not what people are taking issue with.
Though it's funny that you said that....in that way.
8BitsAtATime
Member
Ran out of gas.
MHWilliams
Member
Upset is a bit strong. I just think the Force is cool and a black dude with the Force would be cool.
I've always been on the "Jedi be kickin'" side with my Expanded Universe enjoyment. Traitor is my jam and that's an entire book about torture and the Force.
And hey, it could still happen! Fingers crossed n shit.
Obviously nobody knows what's going to happen in 8, for all we know a second Starkiller could kill everybody five minutes in and the rest of the trilogy is about their clones. Yes Finn largely does have a character arc in this film by all accounts however unlike Rey's, his seems to be mostly done. He became disillusioned and at the end of the film has a strong reason to fight. Now that doesn't preclude him from partaking in whatever action or scenes, but even the limited amount of attention he got in this film seems likely to be shifted further into Rey and her training with Luke. Both of whom are the stars of this trilogy.
It sucks shit that minorities thought they were going to get a co-star in a leading scifi action trilogy. Boyega was getting asked all the time about how it feels to be a Jedi in interviews so it's not like Lucasfilm didn't know what was happening. Instead he's getting relegated to the usual black sidekick according to some reports. Now that might change in 8 but there is no reason to assume that will be the case. In fact, him being put on ice in-between films seems to strengthen the notion of his irrelevance.
I assume almost everybody didn't expect Finn to beat Ren or whatever, however things like him being in a coma also limits growth outside of the actual movies. Finn also not being Force Sensitive limits his possible importance to the trilogy as well when you have all these super Force Users running around. That's not to say he won't have a part, but it's certainly doesn't appear to be anywhere near the level built up in the marketing. It's not the biggest of deals, but it does sting.
It sucks shit that minorities thought they were going to get a co-star in a leading scifi action trilogy. Boyega was getting asked all the time about how it feels to be a Jedi in interviews so it's not like Lucasfilm didn't know what was happening. Instead he's getting relegated to the usual black sidekick according to some reports. Now that might change in 8 but there is no reason to assume that will be the case. In fact, him being put on ice in-between films seems to strengthen the notion of his irrelevance.
I assume almost everybody didn't expect Finn to beat Ren or whatever, however things like him being in a coma also limits growth outside of the actual movies. Finn also not being Force Sensitive limits his possible importance to the trilogy as well when you have all these super Force Users running around. That's not to say he won't have a part, but it's certainly doesn't appear to be anywhere near the level built up in the marketing. It's not the biggest of deals, but it does sting.
The film doesn't do anything to dissuade that notion. I went in without having read any spoilers and just based on what is in the movie I walked away with the impression that that's what they might be foreshadowing.
She was abandoned by her parents as a young child on a desert, backwater planet.
Luke disappeared around the same time.
She has a vision of Luke back-to-back with a vision of getting left.
It's not concrete, but if it's not foreshadowing, it's some heavy misdirection.
Cabbagehead
Member
Freewheelin'
Member
You've got two more films to see how Finn's arc progresses. Why whine now?
You complain about what you see and revise your opinion when further information appears.
chesspieceface
Member
The focus is going to be on Anakin Skywalker's descendance aka Kylo Ren
Freewheelin'
Member
Fucking hell lol
Did Han and Leia have arcs after ANH? Even though Luke went off to train with Yoda?
Do you think the entirety of Ep 8 is going to be Rey and Luke?
Do you think they're going to leave Finn in a coma all along?
This is either naive or stupid, I'm sorry.
You understand what "in between films" means right?
Cabbagehead
Member
Its their first strike.
I will see if they get a knock out punch of course.
Regardless being disappointed after all the build up seemingly for this character and such. Is not a bad thing.
Freewheelin'
Member
But what are you seeing here? A guy who turns against his oppressive rulers, takes the fight to a powerful dark side user, strikes up the cinders of a relationship with someone and lives to fight another day. How is that not a good arc? For the first installment of a trilogy? What on earth gives you the impression his arc is over, other than you're being pessimistic?
I just want to point out one last hilarious thing before I head.
The one person discussing the movie here tonight that has actually seen it, says the African American character isn't just a throwaway character. Everyone here complaining about him hasn't even seen the film for themselves.
The one person discussing the movie here tonight that has actually seen it, says the African American character isn't just a throwaway character. Everyone here complaining about him hasn't even seen the film for themselves.
A sidekick who gets beaten for the sole purpose of the alabaster hero to pick up the magic wand and save the day.
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