Liquidsnake
Banned
The colors and film used to shoot this look to be on another level.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Scorpion Soldier
Member
I think it's because a lot of people were expecting tracks like Duel of the Fates (basically, more extravagant) pieces in the score like the prequels. The actual score is a bit more subdued like the originals though, which I can personally appreciate. I thought the score was pretty much perfect.
Good questions.
If I really had to guess, I would say that she was a contingency plan put into place by Palpatine. A lot of Palpatine's character was this idea of being able to cheat death. In the EU, Palpatine had a lot of clones, and I know that even though that isn't canon now, it does open up the possibility that we can have something similar going on here...
If I were writing this story, Rey would be a clone of Anakain that Palpatine was planning in order to take advantage of Anakin's force attunement. The plan would go that when Palpatine faced death, he would plan on transferring his consciousness into the clone and continue to live on, effectively cheating death for eternity (as long as he could continue to go forward with it). I would write it that Snoke would end up being the person responsible for actually going forward with the transfers, basically making him someone who is extremely steeped in the dark side and the use of the force for what basically equates to blood magic, but not a Sith. Snoke still holds Palpatine's essence, waiting for the right person to transfer his former 'master' into... Kylo was a possible target (due to the Skywalker connection), but for whatever reason, has been determined to be an inadequate/lesser version. The other clones were lost/destroyed, with Rey being the sole survivor (through some events that get explained in the future - possibly relating to Luke's disappearance). Snoke believed Rey to be lost, but now through the events with Ren knows that she is alive, which effectively changes the plan.
Yep. His wounded side. Right where Chewie shot his ass. First one to land a hit on Ren.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
Ah yeah you're probably right with that last one.
I agree 100%. Sounds much more like a Star Wars score. While it's true I haven't heard any leitmotifs as strong as the OT, the score itself is absolutely beautiful.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
Because he is Leia's son
Because he is? Han and Leia are his parents.
phazedplasma
Member
ummm cause he is????
Someone never saw the OT.
thecouncil
Banned
Do they realize they themselves have two grandfathers?
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
In what scene and to whom does Kylo say the word grandfather?
And does Rey see herself in the vision she sees when she picks up the lightsaber? And since Luke only has a couple of students, where did that rain scene with the Knights take place?
And does Rey see herself in the vision she sees when she picks up the lightsaber? And since Luke only has a couple of students, where did that rain scene with the Knights take place?
Liquidsnake
Banned
So Leia is Darths daughter, who is Kylo's mom.
Scorpion Soldier
Member
The scene where he meditates in front of Darth Vader's burned helmet. He talks to it.
1) He's talking to Vader's burned helmet.
2) Yes.
3) Another part of Rey's vision. They don't do anything. They just stand there.
A couple of students? By the body count, there were many, many students.
Liquidsnake
Banned
I like your thought process.
lastplayed
Member
I'm so glad they didn't kill Kylo Ren, although he went down like a bitch to Rey. Imagine what she'll be like after Luke's training.
Liquidsnake
Banned
Especially if he can teach her all aspects of the force not just the simple mindness of the Jedi.
There's plenty to go over here.
But the biggest surprise for me was Domhnall Gleeson's character talking about how a clone army would have been superior, I didn't expect that much acknowledgment. Actually that character had a lot to say that referenced the prequels, he mentioned either the Republic or the Senate quite a few times, it's not coming to me exactly what he said right now, but there was a focus on those specific parties.
Also, very happy with John Boyega's performance, I was most surprised by his accent though, he had a natural thick British accent in Attack the Block, I was surprised how convincing his American accent was here. Plus the lad has some great comic chops.
Yo, did anyone actually think that Snoke was some sort of giant. I feel bad for being fooled by this, obviously the Emperor used massive holograms in Empire (I think it was Empire), but it wasn't blue and transperent, I was convinced for that first scene he legitimately was a massive being -- fuck, for all you know he still could be, but the lack of blue tint and scanlines did get me until he faded.
That first Han scene, with the tentacled aliens and the other bounty hunters(?) / smugglers(?), threw off the pacing a little -- although I see why it was here now in retrospect, they had to give Han his moment. Him loving the shit out of the Bowcaster was a nice touch, too.
Oh and that scene on the bridge was perfect. Whole theater went dead silent.
But the biggest surprise for me was Domhnall Gleeson's character talking about how a clone army would have been superior, I didn't expect that much acknowledgment. Actually that character had a lot to say that referenced the prequels, he mentioned either the Republic or the Senate quite a few times, it's not coming to me exactly what he said right now, but there was a focus on those specific parties.
Also, very happy with John Boyega's performance, I was most surprised by his accent though, he had a natural thick British accent in Attack the Block, I was surprised how convincing his American accent was here. Plus the lad has some great comic chops.
Yo, did anyone actually think that Snoke was some sort of giant. I feel bad for being fooled by this, obviously the Emperor used massive holograms in Empire (I think it was Empire), but it wasn't blue and transperent, I was convinced for that first scene he legitimately was a massive being -- fuck, for all you know he still could be, but the lack of blue tint and scanlines did get me until he faded.
That first Han scene, with the tentacled aliens and the other bounty hunters(?) / smugglers(?), threw off the pacing a little -- although I see why it was here now in retrospect, they had to give Han his moment. Him loving the shit out of the Bowcaster was a nice touch, too.
Oh and that scene on the bridge was perfect. Whole theater went dead silent.
That's what's great here. When both the villain and the heroes are gifted beginners here, they can keep them around and up the ante in the fights in every movie and still keep the character drama going. Like Ren's going to get his wish to be like Vader, but doubt he's gonna find happiness in it in the end.
So I listened to the soundtrack this morning when I was running errands.
Basically I like it.. Some interesting motifs Rey's theme is pretty good, kinda playful.
A lot of the tracks sound dark. not very many moment of pure joy.
The use of Han and Leia's theme in track near the end is beautifully used (I have a feeling that this plays when Rey see Finn in a coma, and basically tells him K and leaves)
Jedi Steps is really good, it mixes Rey's theme in with Luke's theme as a connection.
The Ways of the Force is also really good. It cranks up right at a moment that I will probably lose my shit when I see it tomorrow night.
Over all it's pretty good. I think Rey's theme is good enough that it will stick in peoples minds.
Also, I dunno if I have EQ screwed up in my car or whatever, but it sounds like the mixed the upper brass and mid brass (Horns, Trumpets, Trombone) really loud.
Basically I like it.. Some interesting motifs Rey's theme is pretty good, kinda playful.
A lot of the tracks sound dark. not very many moment of pure joy.
The use of Han and Leia's theme in track near the end is beautifully used (I have a feeling that this plays when Rey see Finn in a coma, and basically tells him K and leaves)
Jedi Steps is really good, it mixes Rey's theme in with Luke's theme as a connection.
The Ways of the Force is also really good. It cranks up right at a moment that I will probably lose my shit when I see it tomorrow night.
Over all it's pretty good. I think Rey's theme is good enough that it will stick in peoples minds.
Also, I dunno if I have EQ screwed up in my car or whatever, but it sounds like the mixed the upper brass and mid brass (Horns, Trumpets, Trombone) really loud.
Lan Dong Mik
And why would I want them?
A little bit bummed out that the Knights of Ren are only in a flashback. I'm sure we'll see them all in action in the upcoming sequels though.
Wasn't it Kylo who suggested clones would be better?
And the Republic and Senate referred are the New Republic and its Senate, not the Old Republic from prequels.
lastplayed
Member
Did they ever say New Republic?
I thought I only heard Republic.
I thought I only heard Republic.
StaffyManasse
Member
I'm calling it. Snoke is actually anti Yoda. A three feet tall master of the dark side.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Is Kylo holding Luke's lightsaber in that flashback in the rain? And does that imply that he left as a child and came back as an adult to kill them all? This is the most confusing thing to me. Did he kill them as a kid? And if so, how is he already wearing the outfit and that tall...if he's a teen who murders everyone in the school? How did decide to betray, get the outfit, call the Knights of Ren to come help then murder everyone? Or is Ben's leaving the school something that happened when he was younger then he comes back as an adult to kill everyone?
And if Rey sees herself in the flashback, that confirms to me she was in his school as a child and had her memory repressed.
And if Rey sees herself in the flashback, that confirms to me she was in his school as a child and had her memory repressed.
Yes he is sitting there on a gnarly root, egging his apprentices on to go into that dark cave to find his precious.
No, it isn't called New Republic in the film but that's what it is according to non-film canon sources.
There is but one canon after all, no canon levels.
Obviously in-universe the thing is called just "Republic", officially at least.
I would like to know this as well.
PsihoPerihelion
Member
Rey's Theme is fucking gorgeous. Where's the guy who said the soundtrack was "meh"? Fuck off, buddy.
You're right, had that mixed up (either way, it was in his scenes).
Yeah, I realize it's not the same Government, but the specific use of that terminology I found pretty surprising. I thought it wouldn't allude to any prequel concepts, and just not acknowledge any of it.
Man I want to see that fucking Jedi Ruins(?) scene again, with the faux-cantina, so many great alien designs in there. That one beast drinking from the water Fin went fr, that thing looked incredible, it looked real, it might not be, but it was totally convincing.
Only two disappointments visually, Snoke (while a great design), looked a little rough, pretty sure he was CG, I figured considering that is Andy Serkis' character, yeah? Could be easily excused being a hologram. Actually, i'm going to take the second one back, I was going to critique Maz Kanata, but I think it's just because she's CGI I'm not super impressed, and being super nit picky. She did actually look pretty great, not to mention well designed. I just kind of wish she was somehow done practically -- even though that's not at all fair.
Oh, and wasn't that Death Star Planet called something-something Star Killer? Isn't Star Killer the guy from The Force Unleashed? Or am I drawing connections where there really is none.
Inferno313
Banned
I mean, it's kind of referring to prequel concepts, but the senate and the republic were both mentioned in the OT. Palpatine dissolving the senate is a plot-point in ANH delivered through dialogue.
sobaka770
Banned
Saw this movie and had an hour long trip home to digest.
No, it's not perfect. Nothing ever is. There are parts which I felt were slow. The final attack on the Superweapon lacked impact and drama (music was a bit off there), even though they kept saying that it was going to fire soon - not even close to ANH level of tension. The whole superweapon part didn't feel like it needed to be in the movie at all, to be honest, especially since it got destroyed and we had enough drama with characters already. Can one superbase survive for longer and cause some real threat - this weapon harnessed the energy of the sun, couldn't it be set up to be very hard to take down and last the whole trilogy like a bit threat? Feels like a waste of an awesome concept a bit.
There are also some slower and frankly unnecessary moments in cantina and Han Solo cargo sidestory which are a bit awkward. I also felt that the ending left a lot of threads dangling this time, as if JJ made a plot of TV pilot again.
Everything else was AWESOME though. The amount of good stuff in this movie is incredible. The movie hits all the right notes, has great cinematography, starting shot is cool, action is awesome, characters are relatable and not cliché. A lot of action felt grounded and real. The use of real locations and effects is palpable, there is a sense of reality in this world.
It's definitely up there with OT and shits all over the prequels. As a matter of fact there's no mention of anything from the prequels. When FO fires the superweapon they talk about destroying the "Republic" but we get no mention of Coruscant or anything of the sort even there.
Kylo Ren is a good villain and is set up to become even better. The guy is clearly having issues and more depth than appears initially. Phasma, on the other hand is overhyped and shouldn't have been marketed so much. She's there for a couple of scenes but so far she could've been any other senior stormtrooper. Her fate is ambiguous so maybe she'll come back and become more important later on. I don't like the big CGI hologram guy because he has literary no set up. I get that we'll see more in the sequels but, while the Emperor was kind of a natural villain, being the leader of the evil Empire and all, the new big bad is just ... there... and he's dark...
The main protagonists are great. Both actors perform admirably, Finn is great, Rey is awesome, no damsel in distress here. BB8 is the best thing in the movie. Returning cast does good, Harrison is a joy, Leia as well. Luke, heh...
Can I also say that while there wasn't that many lightsaber scenes in the movie, they felt more real than any complex choreography in the prequels? Just brutal hamfisted swordfighting - awesome. Felt very real and once again those shots were fantastic even if the fights were, in the end, quite simple.
Last, the great thing about this movie is all the stuff that is not there. No politics, no mention of prequels, no slapstick gags. I didn't feel like any callback to OT was forced or out-of-place. It was so easy to screw up but this movie is about people acting under distress in a very relatable way and nobody ruins this.
In a nutshell, this movie had a very difficult task: bring back the old cast and do them justice, set up a whole new range of movies, set up new interesting heroes and villains, and, at the same time, live up to the exorbitant amount of hype. It succeeded everywhere, but for the hype which was anyway impossible to do.
I can see that most of my issues come from that need to have a bigger universe. That so many things could've been told but are not because we'll get the sequels, we'll get the prequel between-the-trilogies cartoon, we'll get the comic books and other stuff. This movie's greatest success is that it's good, like solid good, and also sets up a huge amount of interesting stuff around it. The Star Wars universe is once again exciting.
Just don't go in there expecting the second coming of Jesus.
In my book, JJ pulled it off and I'm going to see it again maybe next week or even earlier.
No, it's not perfect. Nothing ever is. There are parts which I felt were slow. The final attack on the Superweapon lacked impact and drama (music was a bit off there), even though they kept saying that it was going to fire soon - not even close to ANH level of tension. The whole superweapon part didn't feel like it needed to be in the movie at all, to be honest, especially since it got destroyed and we had enough drama with characters already. Can one superbase survive for longer and cause some real threat - this weapon harnessed the energy of the sun, couldn't it be set up to be very hard to take down and last the whole trilogy like a bit threat? Feels like a waste of an awesome concept a bit.
There are also some slower and frankly unnecessary moments in cantina and Han Solo cargo sidestory which are a bit awkward. I also felt that the ending left a lot of threads dangling this time, as if JJ made a plot of TV pilot again.
Everything else was AWESOME though. The amount of good stuff in this movie is incredible. The movie hits all the right notes, has great cinematography, starting shot is cool, action is awesome, characters are relatable and not cliché. A lot of action felt grounded and real. The use of real locations and effects is palpable, there is a sense of reality in this world.
It's definitely up there with OT and shits all over the prequels. As a matter of fact there's no mention of anything from the prequels. When FO fires the superweapon they talk about destroying the "Republic" but we get no mention of Coruscant or anything of the sort even there.
Kylo Ren is a good villain and is set up to become even better. The guy is clearly having issues and more depth than appears initially. Phasma, on the other hand is overhyped and shouldn't have been marketed so much. She's there for a couple of scenes but so far she could've been any other senior stormtrooper. Her fate is ambiguous so maybe she'll come back and become more important later on. I don't like the big CGI hologram guy because he has literary no set up. I get that we'll see more in the sequels but, while the Emperor was kind of a natural villain, being the leader of the evil Empire and all, the new big bad is just ... there... and he's dark...
The main protagonists are great. Both actors perform admirably, Finn is great, Rey is awesome, no damsel in distress here. BB8 is the best thing in the movie. Returning cast does good, Harrison is a joy, Leia as well. Luke, heh...
Can I also say that while there wasn't that many lightsaber scenes in the movie, they felt more real than any complex choreography in the prequels? Just brutal hamfisted swordfighting - awesome. Felt very real and once again those shots were fantastic even if the fights were, in the end, quite simple.
Last, the great thing about this movie is all the stuff that is not there. No politics, no mention of prequels, no slapstick gags. I didn't feel like any callback to OT was forced or out-of-place. It was so easy to screw up but this movie is about people acting under distress in a very relatable way and nobody ruins this.
In a nutshell, this movie had a very difficult task: bring back the old cast and do them justice, set up a whole new range of movies, set up new interesting heroes and villains, and, at the same time, live up to the exorbitant amount of hype. It succeeded everywhere, but for the hype which was anyway impossible to do.
I can see that most of my issues come from that need to have a bigger universe. That so many things could've been told but are not because we'll get the sequels, we'll get the prequel between-the-trilogies cartoon, we'll get the comic books and other stuff. This movie's greatest success is that it's good, like solid good, and also sets up a huge amount of interesting stuff around it. The Star Wars universe is once again exciting.
Just don't go in there expecting the second coming of Jesus.
In my book, JJ pulled it off and I'm going to see it again maybe next week or even earlier.
Some thoughts:
I think Rey having repressed memories and being a former student makes sense. She's way too good with the Force to have never used it before. I do think she's a Skywalker and a natural Force user but certainly more than that is required.
As for the Knights of Ren... I think Kylo was an older student when he was turned by Snoke (perhaps other Rens are also former students?) and they went and killed all the others.
Whether this happened with the signature suits is unknown, the Force vision may have been imprecise.
I would put Kylo at around 30 (up to +5?) years old, born a year or so after RotJ. Luke starts training new Jedi not too soon after RotJ, perhaps within 10 years though. Around 15-17 Kylo is turned, and then spends some 5 years creating the Knights. So the massacre would've happened 10-15 years before the film, and before the Jedi have truly born again, leaving Luke's Jedi stillborn.
Rey seems to be about 20, so perhaps she was about 5 to 10 years old when the massacre happened. Perhaps she was a survivor (for whatever reason)? Luke could've messed with her memory due to a trauma or something (or just a trauma alone). She gets dumped to Jakku for some reason. (And Luke prepares a trail that will lead her to him when the time's right.)
Normie
Starkiller base. Named after Luke's original surname (script draft 1 or 2 or so).
The name was used for Galen Marek in the old EU when he was Vader's secret apprentice.
Watch the movie and realise it doesn't really matter. He has one of the most badass scenes in the thing.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
You know what -- I completely forgot. It's like the clone wars mention in the OT. I just associate it with the prequels, totally my bad there.
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