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[DonMigs85]

Huge disappointment for me ;(

- Rey and Finn becoming master force users with zero training. Having a shot at Skywalker-trained Kylo Ren? Bullshit of the highest magnitude

- copy-pasted the plot downright to the jokes of Episode IV to the point of being fully predictable

- Kylo Ren went from menacing figure to worse than Hayden-levels of teen angst.

Maybe a second view will give me a better sensation. Oh my, what a let down

Yeah, myself and a lot of other people feel the same way. I wonder if JJ and Disney are starting to get a bit nervous now. The movie will no doubt do well, but maybe not hit the level of Jurassic World anymore.

 

[Carcetti]

the inverse is kinda the point, i suppose. He purposefully wears a mask and has a voice modulator to mimic vader's menacing appearance.

I think the sequels will show us how Kylo Ren is such a troubled kid. At least they're taking their time and don't do a rushed "my bae might die! Don't kill the emperor, Master Windu! I live to serve you, mylord, where's some kids i can slaughter?"

I would bet some money on sequel Ren getting his wish and becoming a scarred baldy, all business on the outside as well. Not that being Darth Vader worked out that well for Vader either. Being a quadruple amputee lung patient with mental problems doesn't really get balanced by having a cool cape.

 

[Shuggananas]

Huge disappointment for me ;(

- Rey and Finn becoming master force users with zero training. Having a shot at Skywalker-trained Kylo Ren? Bullshit of the highest magnitude

- copy-pasted the plot downright to the jokes of Episode IV to the point of being fully predictable

- Kylo Ren went from menacing figure to worse than Hayden-levels of teen angst.

Maybe a second view will give me a better sensation. Oh my, what a let down

- finn doesn't master the force one bit. Ren did some mind control on a weak stormtrooper (best prison cell defense ever) and pulled a sabre to her, probably her father's/grandfather's too. "master force user" rofl. Ren made a fool of her in the beginning of the last fight too, sending her flying away

- There are some similarities but saying it's a copy paste lol

- he's so much better than anakin though

 

[Fliesen]

Yeah, myself and a lot of other people feel the same way. I wonder if JJ and Disney are starting to get a bit nervous now. The movie will no doubt do well, but maybe not hit the level of Jurassic World anymore.

i surely hope they're not insecure babies like George "We're never gonna beat Titanic" Lucas.

The point is not to create a one-off huge success, but set the foundation for a new franchise. And i think they're on the right path. Fuck box office records - they're playing the long game.

- finn doesn't master the force one bit. Ren did some mind control on a weak stormtrooper (best prison cell defense ever) and pulled a sabre to her, probably her father's/grandfather's too. "master force user" rofl. Ren made a fool of her in the beginning of the last fight too, sending her flying away

- There are some similarities but saying it's a copy paste lol

- he's so much better than anakin though

the fact that, as soon as a character has motivations / emotions beyond the snoozefest performances of Obiwan, Quigon and Padme in the Prequels - people scream "omg whiny angsty".
I much rather have a character with emotional scars from a backstory we have yet to see than some uninspired, boring performance. It killed me what they did to Katniss in Mockingjay 1+2.

 

[Frumix]

I hope none of you equate Force proficiency to being able to swing the saber really well. Kylo was a lot of anger and a lot of roughness but strong was he not.

 

[munchie64]

- Kylo Ren went from menacing figure to worse than Hayden-levels of teen angst.

That's not true! That's impossible!

 

[Replicant]

*shrug* I don't understand why people have problem with Rey being able to use the force without much training. I always get the impression that the Force is pretty much similar to ESP in that you are born with it and the ability is already latent and only need to be triggered to come out full force.

Furthermore, I get the impression that Rey was written as someone who actually knows the Force but has her memory suppressed or she's been actively trying to deny its existence within her. Thus the title, the Force *Awakens*, because it's always been in her. It just lies dormant due to specific reasons yet to be told. Also this is why Maz was heard saying "Just let it in", implying that Rey is actively trying to resist it.

 

[PapaJustify]

Having seen the movie, the pivotal moments were so poorly executed I wouldn't really have cared if I was spoiled.
Thank God for the banter between Finn, Han and Rey, it was what saved the movie IMO and avoided the wooden acting of the prequels. Poe is also a great character, but again we barely know anything about him too.

Of course nobody can know how those scene play out beforehand.
Actually, I have heard about the Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son theory a while ago and I thought it was a cool idea. While I wasn't taken by surprise it still was a "Fuck yeah, so this is the way they are going" moment.

Regarding the execution of these moments and general character development: I think they tried to cram too much into a single movie, which is a critique I have with recent moviemaking in general. It's like everybody wants to tell these epic stories with a lot of deep characters in the length of a two hour movie. It just doesn't work out most of the times.

That is also why I believe TV series have become so popular in recent years. Because that's actually the perfect format where such epic stories can be told and characters established in a way they deserve.

 

[Pezking]

-How does Rey use the Force and a lightsaber with no formal training (though she did get some practice with her staff)?

We don't know yet who her parents are and why they abandoned her on Jakku.

Maybe she already received some kind of training as a small child?

 

[eot]

I liked all the characters, although they had too little exposition to establish their motivations and feelings for each other. Leia might as well have not been in the movie. The story was extremely by the numbers and disappointing. Seriously, why make another Death Star when it can be destroyed so comically easily by a geriatric, a janitor, a scanvenger and a furry? It was too easy and too familiar and therefore devoid of tension.

I was the only one among my friends, but I cannot believe that Han Solo is dead. Is the concensus here that he's not coming back? Thought his death was way too anticlimactic. I saw it coming a mile away and didn't feel anything when it actually happened. That's not how one of the most beloved characters in science fiction should come to an end.

Yeah, the climax was the weakest part of the movie. From the dull air battle, to the anticlimactic death of Han (I agree that it was too obvious). Rey beating Kylo also didn't feel earned and as such wasn't particularly rewarding.

 

[munchie64]

Yeah, myself and a lot of other people feel the same way. I wonder if JJ and Disney are starting to get a bit nervous now. The movie will no doubt do well, but maybe not hit the level of Jurassic World anymore.

Are you somehow implying that how good a movie is correlates with how much money it earns while mentioning Jurassic Park.

 

[Lunchbillion]

Ren didn't just lose the duel because he was wounded, he lost because he doubted himself and his willpower paled in comparison to Rey's. Basically, he choked under the pressure of fighting another force user who he didn't expect to rival him so closely after she only just discovered her insanely high potential. I had no trouble accepting the outcome of that fight.

Also this movie was 10/10 material for me, magic on the screen. <3

 

[paradise_circus]

I really liked the struggle Kylo Ren still has. I guess he will be either like Vader and kill staff he assigned the responsibility to or Rey will get him to the good side to oppose the rest of the bad guys (in the concluding movie).

Finns, Poe and BB8 were great.

 

[Shuggananas]

Are you somehow implying that how good a movie is correlates with how much money it earns while mentioning Jurassic Park.

 

[Fliesen]

*shrug* I don't understand why people have problem with Rey being able to use the force without much training. I always get the impression that the Force is pretty much similar to ESP in that you are born with it and the ability is already latent and only need to be triggered to come out full force.

Furthermore, I get the impression that Rey was written as someone who actually knows the Force but has her memory suppressed or she's been actively trying to deny its existence within her. Thus the title, the Force *Awakens*, because it's always been in her. It just lies dormant due to specific reasons yet to be told. Also this is why Maz was heard saying "Just let it in", implying that Rey is actively trying to resist it.

original trilogy distortion field.
Luke's training was: "trust in the force to aim a torpedo, trust in the force to block little droid zaps" before he managed to pull his lightsaber from the snow in the Wampa cave.

It was rather theoretical "lift some rocks, be one with yourself and your surroundings" before heading to bespin.

He was never (visibly) trained telekinesis or force persuasion, yet he uses these skills in Empire and RotJ.

Rey isn't a good fighter with a sword because she had to be trained in it. She's a good fighter because she had to look out for herself in a hostile environment for years. Luke was a rather 'innocent' farm boy. Rey starts off way ahead of where Luke started off in ANH - not as a Jedi, but as a survivor.

 

[cyba89]

-How does Rey use the Force and a lightsaber with no formal training (though she did get some practice with her staff)?

I think it's pretty obvious that we will learn more about her past in one of the next episodes.
Why do people already expect everything about the characters (especially Kylo and Rey) explained when this is the first entry in a trilogy?

I really enjoyed the movie although it has some flaws. I thought the new characters (Rey, Finn, Kylo, Poe, BB-8) were all great and I'm looking forward to follow their journey in Ep8 in two years. Action scenes and the lightsaber battle were great and I was pleased to see that Harrison Ford took some effort in his acting. The bigger weak points were Death Star #3 and the First Order. I also thought Phasma would get more screentime. Don't know what to think about Snoke yet, because we don't really know much about him.

 

[eot]

For all the god damn nostaliga in this movie I still kinda missed Wedge

Give me an "lock X-foils in attack position" for old times' sake

 

[munchie64]

original trilogy distortion field.
Luke's training was: "trust in the force to aim a torpedo, trust in the force to block little droid zaps" before he managed to pull his lightsaber from the snow in the Wampa cave.

It was rather theoretical "lift some rocks, be one with yourself and your surroundings" before heading to bespin.

He was never (visibly) trained telekinesis or force persuasion, yet he uses these skills in Empire and RotJ.

Rey isn't a good fighter with a sword because she had to be trained in it. She's a good fighter because she had to look out for herself in a hostile environment for years. Luke was a rather 'innocent' farm boy. Rey starts off way ahead of where Luke started off in ANH - not as a Jedi, but as a survivor.

Great post, said it better than I could.

 

[nOoblet16]

That's the point

No I meant his eyes are always watery, I get that he is suppose to look unthreatening but he gets there without the constant watery eyes.

Also the way he moves and acts is different when he wears a mask...that is something that wouldn't change really you know. But I guess they want to exaggerate the characteristics of when he is in a mask and when he isnt...after all it's a movie.

 

[Peru]

I don't think the starkiller base weapon is important to the movie. It's a bit of a joke - in a good way. The New Republic is a bit of a desperate group, they try and fail at things with vague inspiration from a looney like Snoke, and people like Kylo Ren high up in their organization basically doesn't care about their official projects as much as his own path. So that whole project was a desperate move bound to fail sooner or later (it's still a potent threat to many, but they're like bandits in a western, shooting left and right for the hell of it) and just becomes a backdrop for genuinely interesting encounters between Han and Kylo, Finn / Rey and Kylo. That's the greatest part of this movie - the big conflicts are about the characters, not giant battles.

 

[Aiii]

I really liked the struggle Kylo Ren still has. I guess he will be either like Vader and kill staff he assigned the responsibility to or Rey will get him to the good side to oppose the rest of the bad guys (in the concluding movie).

Finns, Poe and BB8 were great.

I actually really like that he feels a pull from the light side. All the other movies focus on good characters being pulled into the dark side. Sure, Vader has his redemption arc in Jedi, but that's more of being pulled back into the light. From what Leia said to Han, it seems Ben Solo has always been bad and they send him to Luke in hopes of turning him from the dark side to the light and it appears Luke nearly succeeded until Snoke got involved and turned him back to the Dark Side.

God, the more I think about this, the more I love the complexity of Kylo Ren's character, so many layers.

 

[Jables Swan]

For those questioning about Phasma.

Kennedy has big plans for Phasma and confirmed that the captain will carry on into the next movie. “She’s an important character, a baddie in the best sense of the word.”

Source

 

[PapaJustify]

Yeah, I think we really have to admit to challenging what we know of the Force.
I also saw (and even more so now see) the Force as an energy that is powerful from the get-go.

The Jedi training in my head is more meditative in the sense of learning how to channel/control that energy rather than learning what tricks you can pull off with it. It is also more about learning the moral aspects of trusting in instincts and to resist the temptations of the dark side. That is why I think that confronting the Dark Side is the biggest test for a Jedi.

 

[Carbonox]

Just remembered my buddy get annoyed because while we were standing in the queue waiting to go in and see the film some guy standing behind us said outright that Han dies. Fortunately I did not hear this but my friend did and once the film ended he was right mad. :lol

In other news, Rey is my new favourite Star Wars character. I think she's fantastic and I love that she's quite formidable already for someone so early in to her Force-wielding capabilities (though they obviously hint she's been trying to fight it in the past). The scene where she mentally fights back against Kylo in the interrogation scene was badass.

 

[nOoblet16]

Also can I just say I didn't really think they'd kill Han Solo off. In hindsight it doesn't look that far fetched but before I was like they must try to at least get all the originals in one scene at least once.

 

[Generic Power Ranger]

I hope boba fett makes a return at some point. Would be amazing.

 

[Shuggananas]

I hope boba fett makes a return at some point. Would be amazing.

fuck no, there's callbacks and there's pandering
Boba Fett is dead. Well, still being digested actually, but dead.

 

[Carbonox]

Also can I just say I didn't really think they'd kill Han Solo off. In hindsight it doesn't look that far fetched but before I was like they must try to at least get all the originals in one scene at least once.

I didn't expect it so soon going in to the film but the hints were all there during the film, especially with the stand-off that it was going to happen. I was still shocked and sad, moreso as I literally just came off the back of a marathon run so Han's journey was incredibly fresh in mind again.

I was kinda hoping when R2D2 reactivated that it meant Luke would show up with Han, as nutty as that sounds.

It was obvious the old guard wouldn't all survive come the end of the trilogy though. Just not so soon that they'd knock one off.

 

[Peru]

The scene where she mentally fights back against Kylo in the interrogation scene was badass.

Yeah that was possibly the coolest single moment. Ridley is a find. Such a natural and so much energy - chemistry flies between her and Boyega as well. What finds.

 

[Replicant]

original trilogy distortion field.
Luke's training was: "trust in the force to aim a torpedo, trust in the force to block little droid zaps" before he managed to pull his lightsaber from the snow in the Wampa cave.

It was rather theoretical "lift some rocks, be one with yourself and your surroundings" before heading to bespin.

He was never (visibly) trained telekinesis or force persuasion, yet he uses these skills in Empire and RotJ.

Rey isn't a good fighter with a sword because she had to be trained in it. She's a good fighter because she had to look out for herself in a hostile environment for years. Luke was a rather 'innocent' farm boy. Rey starts off way ahead of where Luke started off in ANH - not as a Jedi, but as a survivor.

I don't get your point. Your description of the Force is still some form mystical mumbo jumbo not different from ESP or other magic-like abilities. Maybe I'm just not pedantic enough to fuss about it.

All I know is that only specific individuals have the power. You only get trained if they sense you have the potential. Like someone else up above said, it's not that different from Harry Potter in that the ability does not require training to come out in full force. Ray's sudden proficiency on top of the latent explanation above can also be explain that her survival instinct kicked off into full gear.

Basically I'm saying that there's nothing weird that Rey is proficient in it when push comes to shove. Humans tend to be more resilient when danger abounds. That on top of the Force is a latent ability.

 

[prudislav]

Also can I just say I didn't really think they'd kill Han Solo off.

i guess he is kinda expensive to have in the movie ;-) So why not kill him off to save money

 

[Generic Power Ranger]

fuck no, there's callbacks and there's pandering
Boba Fett is dead. Well, still being digested actually, but dead.

Naaaw. Come on. It's boba fett Shouldn't be a major part, just a scene somewhere, where i'd make sense.

Theres good pandering and bad pandering. Just need to see that he made it out of the sarlacc pit.


Oh and I was sad we didn't get to see luke, leia & han together.

 

[DonMigs85]

Dorling-Kindersley is also gonna publish another Visual Dictionary for this so that'll help fill in some of the backstory at least. I loved the previous ones.

 

[Shuggananas]

Ren's mask looks much better when he has his hood on. It just looks way off when he doesn't have it on, it's weird.

 

[Fliesen]

I didn't expect it so soon going in to the film but the hints were all there during the film, especially with the stand-off that it was going to happen. I was still shocked and sad, moreso as I literally just came off the back of a marathon run so Han's journey was incredibly fresh in mind again.

I was kinda hoping when R2D2 reactivated that it meant Luke would show up with Han, as nutty as that sounds.

It was obvious the old guard wouldn't all survive come the end of the trilogy though. Just not so soon that they'd knock one off.

dragging along a granpa smuggler that can't convey the energy and dynamic pacing a film like this needs would have been nice fan-service, but it would have made the movies itself worse for it.

The "physical" depiction of the force was so great.
Gone are "I'll just pinch the air and that other dude will grab his throat", gone are the "i'll move my sword in a downward motion and rip metal stuff from the wall" moments of Dooku.

Kylo Ren drags, chokes and slams people, stops a blaster shot mid-air and when he 'grabs" Rey, he keeps her still but you see and feel the tension in every muscle in her body.

they brought back some force to the Force.

I don't get your point. Your description of the Force is still some form mystical mumbo jumbo not different from ESP or other magic-like abilities. Maybe I'm just not pedantic enough to fuss about it.

All I know is that only specific individuals have the power. You only get trained if they sense you have the potential. Like someone else up above said, it's not that different from Harry Potter in that the ability does not require training to come out in full force. Ray's sudden proficiency on top of the latent explanation above can also be explain that her survival instinct kicked off into full gear.

Basically I'm saying that there's nothing weird that Rey is proficient in it when push comes to shove. Humans tend to be more resilient when danger abounds. That on top of the Force is a latent ability.

i don't think we're disagreeing here. I'm totally on board with you. I'm just saying that what people call out Rey for - like being much more capable in the usage of the force and her fighting abilites than Luke at a similar time of their adventure, doesn't need calling out for, because Luke was
* a worse fighter
* and discovered new abilities all by himself, when put in extreme situations, as well. He was never really trained any swordfighting techniques. He used telekinesis before without anyone ever teaching him / showing him that it could be done.

I was just describing that the difference between Luke's and Rey's development isn't as big as some seem to remember it being. Most of the "training" Luke received were pep talks. And Yoda's rootleaf stew.

 

[Messofanego]

Are you somehow implying that how good a movie is correlates with how much money it earns while mentioning Jurassic Park.

Repeat viewings. You've got to love the movie to watch it again or tell others to.

 

[Smoolio]

Yeah I liked the depiction of the force in this movie. I just hope by the 3rd movie they make new strides in movie sword fighting, so I can safely say they would destroy any previous jedi/sith I've seen in a fight. Especially with the Raid guys on board, what a waste to not make some masterful fights.

 

[Shuggananas]

Repeat viewings. You've got to love the movie to watch it again or tell others to.

But SW7 is better and more re-watchable than JW so what's your point
Also I doubt rewatches make most of the box-office

 

[heringer]

I was a bit underwhelmed with Luke's reveal. I was expecting a more surprising and decisive showing, even if only at the end.

It was a bit weird. He was just standing there. I also didn't like that he looks almost exactly like Ben Kenobi. I loved the look on his face though. I was sold on his pain and sorrow. Dude looks miserable.

 

[cyba89]

Yeah, myself and a lot of other people feel the same way. I wonder if JJ and Disney are starting to get a bit nervous now. The movie will no doubt do well, but maybe not hit the level of Jurassic World anymore.

lol

 

[Fliesen]

Repeat viewings. You've got to love the movie to watch it again or tell others to.

i wonder how big the share of people was that did repeat viewings of JW or if it simply drew such a huge crowd for a single viewing.

Avatar was certainly big on repeat viewings, because it was almost kind of a "theme park ride", Titanic was even bigger because it was a ... fantastic movie with a romance story that girls loved to go watch and tear up.

I wouldn't be able to name an attribute of JW that warrants repeat viewing.

I was a bit underwhelmed with Luke's reveal. I was expecting a more surprising and decisive showing, even if only at the end.

It was a bit weird. He was just standing there. I also didn't like that he looks almost exactly like Ben Kenobi. I loved the look on his face though. I was sold on his pain and sorrow. Dude looks miserable.

"Ewww, a girl?! ... great job pandering to SJW, Force!"

When he took of his hood, i, sadly, audibly said "oh yeah." when we were shown his majestic mane. I was expecting his red-carpet hairdo, really.

 

[Chiggs]

So basically nothing new was attempted. Rehashing the old formula probably seemed like a safe bet, but that's what this film feels like: safe.

 

[Shuggananas]

So basically nothing new was attempted. Rehashing the old formula probably seemed like a safe bet, but that's what this film feels like: safe.

safe, sure, but there was some new stuff
Also killing off han ain't no joke

 

[Carcetti]

lol

No kidding. I have about 20 friends who've seen the new movie by now and the reception's been overwhelmingly positive. All the really old fans are on fire too.

I bet the most resistance will come from obsessive EU fans. The movie is a fun, silly action romp and those who get hung up on the tiniest fandom-inspected details will feel left out.

 

[Fliesen]

So basically nothing new was attempted. Rehashing the old formula probably seemed like a safe bet, but that's what this film feels like: safe.

Trust me, making an empowered girl who refuses to be held by her hand (and who doesn't wear conceiler to cover the skin irregularities on her forehead, i might add!) the main protagonist of your movie is anything but safe.
WITHOUT adding some forced romance story (yet), because that's what a girl wants and needs - love.

I literally gagged at the "sitting on a field with the little kid" ending of Mockingjay Part 2.
Katniss never needed a (somewhat) happy family ending. She was a political liberator - sure, she deserved peace, but don't gimme that 'happy mom' shit.

 

[DonMigs85]

So basically nothing new was attempted. Rehashing the old formula probably seemed like a safe bet, but that's what this film feels like: safe.

Makes me wonder if JJ was given true freedom or executives meddled again.
At least we got a strong female lead and a black male lead too.

 

[neonille]

5/10 for me. Big disappointment from my side.

- It's a remake of ep4...The movie got 100% predictable, boring and pointless after about half of playtime. I wanted a new chapter in the saga, not the same movie again.

- Any good lightsaber duels in this?...nope. In fact there are no memorable moments whatsoever except for one death. But even that was executed poorly...

- Any cool environments? No...Seriously this is Star Wars and all we got was the most boring, generic environments possible

- Any new aliens that has a big role in the movie?...Nope...Why are they always just side characters? Seriously do something more with them, you have an entire galaxy filled with aliens and all this movie has is humans and chewie...great. At least Jar Jar was an alien...

- I hated Finn....why is he in the movie, who gives a shit about him??
Rey is nice, but she goes from knowing nothing about the force to a fully fledge Jedi in 5 seconds and she can almost beat Ren aswell.....is this a joke?

- Fuck the ending, seriously...

 

[Fliesen]

Makes me wonder if JJ was given true freedom or executives meddled again.
At least we got a strong female lead and a black male lead too.

don't forget the fact that, the very first time we get a shot of the resistance base, we see 2 pilots - one male, one female.

It's not just the lead, the whole movie is super gender balanced. It's almost ridiculous.

5/10 for me. Big disappointment from my side.

- It's a remake of ep4...The movie got 100% predictable, boring and pointless after about half of playtime. I wanted a new chapter in the saga, not the same movie again.

- Any good lightsaber duels in this?...nope. In fact there are no memorable moments whatsoever except for one death. But even that was executed poorly...

- Any cool environments? No...Seriously this is Star Wars and all we got was the most boring, generic environments possible

- Any new aliens that has a big role in the movie?...Nope...Why are they always just side characters? Seriously do something more with them, you have an entire galaxy filled with aliens and all this movie has is humans and chewie...great. At least Jar Jar was an alien...

* do you consider the dance numbers in the prequels "good duels"? because i consider the duel between Rey and Kylo Ren to be fantastic.

* There were aliens everywhere? The scrap dealer. Maz Kanata had a rather big role. More valuable than JarJar, that's for sure. Snoke doesn't look all that human. There were multiple non-human resistance pilots.

 

[Frillen]

Best part of the movie was when the two troopers noped out of the corridor when Ben was raging.

 

[Messofanego]

But SW7 is better and more re-watchable than JW so what's your point
Also I doubt rewatches make most of the box-office

Point is, if word of mouth is mixed or disappointment. I don't know the original poster's point that you're responding to, just trying to explain from his side. I have nothing to say about it not being able to beat Jurassic World in box office.