[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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I don't know why the fuck I stepped into this thread. I managed to avoid spoilers for over a fucking year, and here I came strolling by just a day before the movie becomes available for me to see and I just spoil it for myself because that's just what I do. I'm not upset over any spoilers, because in some weird way I enjoy reading spoilers before seeing a movie or reading a book, but god damn, I had ONE MORE DAY and I just said fuck it. I have no self control whatsoever. LOL

But anyway, people wanting a hero's death from Han is fucking boring. I welcome ruthlessness. I enjoy seeing my favorite characters in the worst turmoil or killed in brutal ways. Then again, it really depends on the character and the circumstances. In the case of Han, the idea of him being stabbed and thrown down a shaft is awesome to me. Had he died piloting his ship and pulled an Independence Day, I would have said "fuck that".
 
APZonerunner said:
I'd say by about a fortnight before, everything was out there in terms of Han's fate, Kylo's identity, etc, even if it wasn't out there in a 'concrete' way where everyone was certain it was all true.
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Ah, fair enough. I remember reading bits and pieces about Luke's hand months and months ago (fake, obviously).
 
TheOfficeMut said:
I don't know why the fuck I stepped into this thread. I managed to avoid spoilers for over a fucking year, and here I came strolling by just a day before the movie becomes available for me to see and I just spoil it for myself because that's just what I do. I'm not upset over any spoilers, because in some weird way I enjoy reading spoilers before seeing a movie or reading a book, but god damn, I had ONE MORE DAY and I just said fuck it. I have no self control whatsoever. LOL

But anyway, people wanting a hero's death from Han is fucking boring. I welcome ruthlessness. I enjoy seeing my favorite characters in the worst turmoil or killed in brutal ways. Then again, it really depends on the character and the circumstances. In the case of Han, the idea of him being stabbed and thrown down a shaft is awesome to me. Had he died piloting his ship and pulled an Independence Day, I would have said "fuck that".
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It's kind of amusing to me how there are posters in here who will say "There was too much fanservice!" while in the same breath whining that "Han didn't get a hero's death!" or "I wanted to see Luke do something badass!"
 
The Hermit said:
I feel the same way. Every OT star wars and even the TP had a self contained story. This one has part of it.
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I don't think this was any less of a story than the previous films. There are lots of unresolved plot threads but the structure of the movie is the same as ANH when it comes to the protagonists journey. I suppose TFA is like ANH but with a quick appearance of Yoda at the end.
 
PairOfFilthySocks said:
This is simply no longer acceptable for me for these blockbuster films.
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That's just how it is when you're dealing with a Saga like this. Can't expect all the answers to a 3 Chapter story during Chapter 1. We got the basics, we just haven't seen how it happened. A 20 minute flashback sequence showing the fall of Kylo and the destruction of Luke's academy may have felt just a little bit out of place in the story they were telling in this one.

Aiii said:
Also, can we talk about the soundtrack? Because it's amazing.

AMAZING.

Especially the track "The Scavenger" that is played during Rey's introduction. Absolutely wonderful.

Episode 3 has my absolute favorite work by Williams, but this is a definite contender for that top spot once I listen to it a hundred more times or so.
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March of the Resistance! Killer.
 
AtomnayaKlubnika said:
Seriously I hope not. If it was the case it would definitely be a lazy narrative rope. We already have Ben Solo as the last crazy Skywalker, why not just open a new legacy?
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Rey being directly connected to Luke Skywalker one way or another is the only thing that makes sense with all the foreshadowing though. The whole 'this saber calls to like like it did to Luke and his father'-bit, R2D2 becoming active as soon as Rey walks in, Luke's face when he saw Rey, the 'Luke-on-Dagobah' style flashback, the constant reminder that Rey is special by almost every character. It just doesn't add up if Rey is just a random person that happens to be force sensitive.
 
TheOfficeMut said:
I don't know why the fuck I stepped into this thread. I managed to avoid spoilers for over a fucking year, and here I came strolling by just a day before the movie becomes available for me to see and I just spoil it for myself because that's just what I do. I'm not upset over any spoilers, because in some weird way I enjoy reading spoilers before seeing a movie or reading a book, but god damn, I had ONE MORE DAY and I just said fuck it. I have no self control whatsoever. LOL

But anyway, people wanting a hero's death from Han is fucking boring. I welcome ruthlessness. I enjoy seeing my favorite characters in the worst turmoil or killed in brutal ways. Then again, it really depends on the character and the circumstances. In the case of Han, the idea of him being stabbed and thrown down a shaft is awesome to me. Had he died piloting his ship and pulled an Independence Day, I would have said "fuck that".
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Yeah, i had minor spoilers hinted the other day and then thought sod it and dived in here. I doubt i'll get to see the film til after christmas even though i love the SW films i just wasn't feeling the hype for this.

Han sounds like he died a Rogue's death, which is fitting in my view. Funny how the spoilers actually make me want to see the film, lol.
 
She also has stronger force "willpower" than ren which is something when he has skywalker blood
If she's not luke's daughter something is off with all the foreshadowing they did
 
I'm fairly sure she's his daughter. There were many hints. Even her closing the door on the monster to save Fin was just like Luke closing the door on the monster in the pit in Jedi.
 
crackhead_bob said:
Does this film use LOTR style montage flashbacks to flesh out backstory?
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No, there is a short flashback, but it doesn't really reveal anything (yet).

BronsonLee said:
Luke's in hiding because he's a deadbeat dad
That look on his face is because he just realized he owes her a shitload of child support now
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Seriously. If Rey is his daughter, he's a pretty shitty guardian. He straight up left his daughter on a remote planet and his nephew who was put under his care became a mass-murderer.
 
CloudWolf said:
Rey being directly connected to Luke Skywalker one way or another is the only thing that makes sense with all the foreshadowing though. The whole 'this saber calls to like like it did to Luke and his father'-bit, R2D2 becoming active as soon as Rey walks in, Luke's face when he saw Rey, the 'Luke-on-Dagobah' style flashback, the constant reminder that Rey is special by almost every character. It just doesn't add up if Rey is just a random person that happens to be force sensitive.
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I assume Luke left Rey on Jakku when the First Order started to hunt Luke down. She would be safer on Jakku without knowing her parents.

Almost sound like Jon Snows parentage theory lol.
 
pringles said:
That's just how it is when you're dealing with a Saga like this. Can't expect all the answers to a 3 Chapter story during Chapter 1. We got the basics, we just haven't seen how it happened. A 20 minute flashback sequence showing the fall of Kylo and the destruction of Luke's academy may have felt just a little bit out of place in the story they were telling in this one.
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Doesn't matter. Something's wrong when the motivation and development of the main character is being kept in the dark. Rey's writing all-round was sloppy.
 
pringles said:
March of the Resistance! Killer.
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Aye, that's a great track, too.

I like that Williams played around a bit with this one and made it a bit more "playful" rather than just bombastic and large (epic?) which he did for the other two trilogies. If you understand what I mean.

It's just enough new mixed in with the familiar themes from the past, clicks perfectly. I hope he gets to do both the sequels as well. He seems to be in good health and energetic still.
 
CloudWolf said:
Seriously. If Rey is his daughter, he's a pretty shitty guardian. He straight up left his daughter on a remote planet and his nephew who was put under his care became a mass-murderer.
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And if Leia's the mom...

Luke Skywalker's List of Crimes:
Incest
Conspiracy To Commit Mass Murder
Child Abandonment
Failure To Pay Child Support
 
I like the monk chanting thing in Snoke's room. Reminded me of Dark Souls.
 
Does anyone know how many BB8 model types may have been used in the making of this film? I remember reading that there were 4 Delorean types used in the making of Back to the Future, and BB8 looks complex enough as to warrant different models in order to fulfill specific situational needs for the filming of Force Awakens..
 
Sane_Man said:
I'm fairly sure she's his daughter. There were many hints. Even her closing the door on the monster to save Fin was just like Luke closing the door on the monster in the pit in Jedi.
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I thought so as well on my first viewing. But on my second viewing I really started to think she's related to Obi-Wan. When she has her force vision the voice saying 'Rey, these are your first steps' sound a lot like Sir Alec Guinness, especially the 'Rey' part. And her giving Luke the lightsaber of his father the same way Obi-Wan did in ANH is also interesting.

Furthermore you have the sequence where she goes down to pull a switch. The troopers there are talking about a BT-17 and discussing that it's not the greatest thing. Stormtroopers in ANH have nearly an identical conversation about the BT-16 when Obi-Wan pulls the switch to shut down the tractor beam. And the whole lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo gets a new dimension if she's related to Ben Kenobi.
 
I would assume that it's almost certainly something the writer/director decides, with final approval happening from Disney and Lucasfilm.
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So will they be a positive check for all things Star Wars going forward on par with Gary Kurtz? To paraphrase, is the license in good hands going forward, or are there potential pitfalls down the road? Equally important, is their creative braintrust at Lucasfilm separate from the Marvel department, because their films have become very derivative and boring. Their Netflix shows are much more entertaining than their films, I find.
 
FeD.nL said:
I thought so as well on my first viewing. But on my second viewing I really started to think she's related to Obi-Wan. When she has her force vision the voice saying 'Rey, these are your first steps' sound a lot like Sir Alec Guinness, especially the 'Rey' part. And her giving Luke the lightsaber of his father the same way Obi-Wan did in ANH is also interesting.

Furthermore you have the sequence where she goes down to pull a switch. The troopers there are talking about a BT-17 and discussing that it's not the greatest thing. Stormtroopers in ANH have nearly an identical conversation about the BT-16 when Obi-Wan pulls the switch to shut down the tractor beam. And the whole lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo gets a new dimension if she's related to Ben Kenobi.
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Yes, she does a lot of things that are analogous to what Obi-Wan did, but I don't see how that's an argument them being related. That's just the film being packed with stuff that is just like A New Hope. Someone had to mind trick a Stormtrooper and there was only one person around to do it.
 
I liked Rey/Ray more than Luke.

Though this movie feels more like Episode IV with much better graphics.
 
eot said:
Yes, she does a lot of things that are analogous to what Obi-Wan did, but I don't see how that's an argument them being related. That's just the film being packed with stuff that is just like A New Hope. Someone had to mind trick a Stormtrooper and there was only one person around to do it.
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No absolutely I agree that they could just be callbacks. It's just something that I really noticed on my second viewing. Especially her giving the saber to luke and R2 waking up when she arrives and completing the clue.
 
CloudWolf said:
Rey being directly connected to Luke Skywalker one way or another is the only thing that makes sense with all the foreshadowing though. The whole 'this saber calls to like like it did to Luke and his father'-bit, R2D2 becoming active as soon as Rey walks in, Luke's face when he saw Rey, the 'Luke-on-Dagobah' style flashback, the constant reminder that Rey is special by almost every character. It just doesn't add up if Rey is just a random person that happens to be force sensitive.
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She is not a random person, she certainly has some sort of link with Luke. But I don't think she is related to him.
When she had the vision I think she just saw thing related to the lightsaber, related to the Skywalker family. As for Luke face seeing her, it is pretty much open for all sort of interpretation.
Kylo family ties where revealed quite early in the movie, I really think that JJ and Kasdan wanted to have this "Skywalker reveal" out of the way quickly to satisfy people expectation, but also to turn a page. I really think that if she was Luke's daughter Ben or Leia would have sensed it.
 
If she isn't Luke's daughter, then she might be a prodigious child from his academy that he hid from Kylo Ren after he turned.
 
Han's death was perfect, especially the slight of hand with Kylo stating he didn't know if he was strong enough to do what had to be done.

I was thinking him turning to the light side then would be increbly forced, so it was a pleasant surprise when it worked out the way it did.

As for the rest...

I really enjoyed it overall, even if the film definitely felt a little crowded and swift in places. I'd have preferred they packed less in and had given the episode a self contained story instead of it largely being set-up for the new trilogy, at times the development felt too rushed because of it (Rey's transition especially).

Still, the characters were fun, Rey and Finn had excellent chemistry, the old characters gave a great show, the action was exciting, he visuals superb, and Kylo was a perfect antagonist - exactly what Anakin should have been, the right mix of angst and self-doubt and fear and anger. He felt utterly unhinged and it watching the last shreds of his humanity fade as he embraced the dark side was much more what I'd expected from Anakin-Vader.

A few moments of hammy dialogue (that one exchange between Han and Lea was pretty bad), and some pacing issues aside, I think it's a very good SW film and a great start to the new trilogy.
 
crackhead_bob said:
So will they be a positive check for all things Star Wars going forward on par with Gary Kurtz? To paraphrase, is the license in good hands going forward, or are there potential pitfalls down the road? Equally important, is their creative braintrust at Lucasfilm separate from the Marvel department, because their films have become very derivative and boring. Their Netflix shows are much more entertaining than their films, I find.
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I mean, we don't really know, but everything that JJ and Kathleen has said about Disney has suggested that they're basically being allowed to do their own thing. JJ said they were very hands-off and let him make the film he wanted to make. So it doesn't seem like a bad deal, so far.

And yes, Walt Disney Pictures, Lucasfilm, and Marvel Studios are essentially three different studios all owned by the larger Walt Disney Corporation. Film-wise, Marvel and Lucasfilm have next to nothing to do with each other aside from their parent corporation.
 
PairOfFilthySocks said:
Doesn't matter. Something's wrong when the motivation and development of the main character is being kept in the dark. Rey's writing all-round was sloppy.
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What about her motivation and development is kept in the dark in your opinion? We don't know her full backstory but just like with Luke in ANH, that doesn't mean she doesn't work as a character anyway. Luke was a whiny brat who wanted to leave home and go on adventures. Rey is a loner that is waiting for her family to return, waiting to 'belong' somewhere. She doesn't want adventures, she says she needs to go home and she rejects the lightsaber at Maz's. None of her motivations are kept in the dark.
 
FeD.nL said:
No absolutely I agree that they could just be callbacks. It's just something that I really noticed on my second viewing. Especially her giving the saber to luke and R2 waking up when she arrives and completing the clue.
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Honestly, those "clues" would bother me in hindsight if that's who she is, because those aren't things that she would know to do because of her heritage. It would feel super artificial.
 
I was surprised when Kylo removed his helm. I thought his facial features would be intimidating, turns out he is a dark side nerd. lol

The film is great even with the flaws.
 
Ushojax said:
If she isn't Luke's daughter, then she might be a prodigious child from his academy that he hid from Kylo Ren after he turned.
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Yeah, I think it's very probable. What would be exciting is for her to be an outsider: it opens a lot more of character and background development possibilities.
 
Watching TESB now and it's incredible how the OT movies breath well and are nicely paced. Waaaaaaay too much stuff going on in each frame in TFA, the movie never breathe
 
I also was surprised that their were two direct references to the prequels early in the movie. Both 'the balance of the force' and 'a clone army' were mentioned. Hopefully that's the level of detail when can expect for prequel references, just enough to connect them but not enough to remind us of the horror.
 
Mr. Luchador said:
Oh, so Luke is Rey's Father?
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She could be Kenobi's, Luke's or Leia's. I'm still of the feeling that she's Leia and Han's, and was put on Jakku to keep her safe in case Kylo Ren's training went tits up (which it did). And to keep her away from the hustle and bustle of politics and war, similar to Luke's upbringing I guess.

I wouldn't mind having a brother and sister on either side of the Force fence in this tale.
 
Well that was disappointing. It just didn't do enough for me. I was way more positive when I walked out after A phantom menace for the first time. But I still don't find that one so bad as most of you do. That movie had the pod race and the final fight which was way more interesting than anything in this movie. And I feel this one will be picked a part a lot more than that one.

And when you need 3 movies to depic Anakins fall, seeing Kylo Ren just be a "Sith" just because something something, was the worst part. Anakin had a Sith Lord watching over him from he was 8 (?) and several bad incidents to help him. I just could not see why Kylo turned. This could be redeemed in part VIII, but for now it was very weak.

And how the hell did they have time to pick him up and get out before the planet collapsed. The Millenium Falcon was just in time, and there is no way the First Order was faster to find him and get him out.

And as other people have written, I really don't like it when the bad guy looses all his abilities in a fight. He stopped a laser shot mid air, but could not easily take down Finn?

And there was a lot more but that was the worst parts.
 
I feel like the argument about this movie having unresolved plot threads and ANH not having them is only because we live in a post-Empire world where it's kind of obvious that there is a lot more to the lore and story than what is first being let on.

The story of ANH is about recovering secret plans so the Rebel Alliance can destroy the Death Star and stand a fighting chance against The Empire. The story of TFA is about recovering secret plans so the Resistance can locate Luke Skywalker and stand a fighting chance against The First Order. Both movies are helmed by a hero of humble beginnings aspiring for some greater goal and a villain who is immensely menacing but seems to be in this for more personal reasons than they let on. On the way to get there, the protagonist who is setting themselves up for the hero's journey is joined by a ragtag group of misfits with varying motivations - the wise one who has a personal score to settle with the leading villain/dark side apprentice (Obi-Wan/TFA Han) and the brash one who just wants to get away from the action (ANH Han/Finn). The former eventually manages to confront and resolve their character development in due time to be killed off as a motivation for the protagonists to overcome their doubts and reluctance while simultaneously serving as the moment the villain is established as serious business that passes the moral event horizon. The latter goes through an internal mid-point crisis when they realize they've gotten way over their own head, before they realize they're needed for the finale to happen, which in term solidifies their character development. The hero overcomes the challenge and while the war is still far from over, the hero has earned a moment of respite as they manage to accomplish the seemingly impossible task they set out to do from the very start.

Much like ANH there are still question marks - what happens next? The empire is still at large, the only thing they managed to do was cripple their doomsday device and there's certainly more where that came from. Will the protagonist succeed in becoming a Jedi? Just what is the overall motivation of the masked main villain truly? And just who is the endgame villain?

The only question that I feel TFA poses that ANH didn't is who Rey's parents are and why she was abandoned, but I don't feel the answer to be an important one as much as it is there to give context for Rey rejecting the path of a hero once she realizes her calling. Like Han said in the movie; the people she's waiting for aren't coming back to her home planet, and to some extent that's actually still somewhat similar to ANH since it kind of posed the question of the feats Luke's dad had accomplished, while TFA sort of dodges the question specifically about whether Rey's parents were Jedi or not.
 
FeD.nL said:
I thought so as well on my first viewing. But on my second viewing I really started to think she's related to Obi-Wan. When she has her force vision the voice saying 'Rey, these are your first steps' sound a lot like Sir Alec Guinness, especially the 'Rey' part. And her giving Luke the lightsaber of his father the same way Obi-Wan did in ANH is also interesting.

Furthermore you have the sequence where she goes down to pull a switch. The troopers there are talking about a BT-17 and discussing that it's not the greatest thing. Stormtroopers in ANH have nearly an identical conversation about the BT-16 when Obi-Wan pulls the switch to shut down the tractor beam. And the whole lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo gets a new dimension if she's related to Ben Kenobi.
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Related to Obi-Wan? She clearly can't be his daughter. What would she be? His niece? Imagine how hilarious it would be explaining that Obi-Wan had a brother/sister or, worse yet, had a daughter and Rey is somehow his granddaughter. Yeah, no.

She's Luke's daughter. That's almost guaranteed at this point. Worse case scenario she is Ben's sister, but she's definitely Skywalker.
 
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