Shuggananas
Banned
I put clone wars on the same level as EU tbh, might as well not be canon
Canon is OT + prelogy as far as I care
The fact that maul is alive in clone wars proves how dumb it is
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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I put clone wars on the same level as EU tbh, might as well not be canon
Canon is OT + prelogy as far as I care
The fact that maul is alive in clone wars proves how dumb it is
Inferno313
Banned
No, they both are.
When they reset the canon they specifically said that the canon was all six films, as well as the Clone Wars, because Lucas effectively served as one of the showrunners on that show.
I liked that Han had that line, "That's not how it works!" in regards to Fin suggesting the Force will help them shut down the shield generator -- that pretty much cements that Han won't appear as a ghost.
Question: Does Han die in the EU? If so, I'd like to hear about it to compare.
BigTastyBurger666
Banned
Yep, I can see him coming back in a flashback, perhaps?
"So Han got lightsabre'd to death, then dropped through a bottomless shaft into the core of an exploding planet."
"You mean there's a chance?"
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
Luke only having a cameo at the very end was so lame. The back-story of Kylo destroying Luke's temple was a really compelling chunk of backstory and they squandered the shit out of it. Oh well, gotta pave the way for those sequels after all. Who needs a solid, self-contained film anyways?
We will never know the conversations Harrison Ford has in his own head so its hard to speculate what his motivations really were for returning to the franchise.
What we do know... he wanted to be killed out of the franchise at RoTJ and he's spent the last 30 years distancing himself and acting like a curmudgeon at any talk of Han Solo.
So my question is.. what really changed?
I think it could be several things - I think the chance to work with JJ and Kasdan, the fact he would have a big role in one of the biggest movies of all time - and this just doesn't happen for most actors that are 70-something years old. Plus..the money. He's got a marijuana and airplane habit to support. He was also probably promised that big death that he always wanted for the character.
He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of all of this on the press tour.
What we do know... he wanted to be killed out of the franchise at RoTJ and he's spent the last 30 years distancing himself and acting like a curmudgeon at any talk of Han Solo.
So my question is.. what really changed?
I think it could be several things - I think the chance to work with JJ and Kasdan, the fact he would have a big role in one of the biggest movies of all time - and this just doesn't happen for most actors that are 70-something years old. Plus..the money. He's got a marijuana and airplane habit to support. He was also probably promised that big death that he always wanted for the character.
He seemed genuinely excited to be a part of all of this on the press tour.
Tevious
Member
I saw the movie tonight (in Seoul). My theater wasn't even a 3rd full. I wouldn't say I was disappointed, because I don't have a lot of faith in JJ Abrams after Star Trek 2. I think the film was MUCH better than the prequel films, but still lacking compared to any of the originals. I still enjoyed it.
I just think the film went way overboard with the coincidences. Where the prequels went and belittled the force by making it more scientific with midichlorians, TFA did the complete opposite and had all these "fate" moments and went so far as to give Anakin's/Luke's blue lightsaber some kind of semi-consciousness by "calling" to Rey and giving her visions. Not to mention, its just randomly in the possession of the alien woman with the glasses (forgot her name) after Luke lost it in the Cloud City. Speaking of that alien woman, I think she is this movie's Jar Jar, in my eyes; completely ridiculous, but for different reasons.
I just think the film went way overboard with the coincidences. Where the prequels went and belittled the force by making it more scientific with midichlorians, TFA did the complete opposite and had all these "fate" moments and went so far as to give Anakin's/Luke's blue lightsaber some kind of semi-consciousness by "calling" to Rey and giving her visions. Not to mention, its just randomly in the possession of the alien woman with the glasses (forgot her name) after Luke lost it in the Cloud City. Speaking of that alien woman, I think she is this movie's Jar Jar, in my eyes; completely ridiculous, but for different reasons.
Shuggananas
Banned
Luke only announcing he's going to the dagobah system at the end of ESB was so lame. Who needs a solid, self-contained film anyways ?
Whole movie is about finding Luke, they find Luke in the end. I just wanted a line from Luke, they didn't need anything more. We didn't get one, no big deal.
I keep hearing this from people.
What exactly was not self-contained?
The opening crawl says..Luke Skywalker has vanished. The final shot of the movie, Luke Skywalker is found. Just because YOU didn't get the story that YOU wanted, doesn't mean that it wasn't a self-contained story.
chesspieceface
Member
The Clone Wars are canon BTW.
Somewhere during The Force Awakens there's a half-cyborg Darth Maul going places
crackhead_bob
Member
I've got the feeling that they're going to phase R2D2 and C3PO partly in order for the writers to be able to stage more dynamic situations with BB8. BB8 offers alot more versatile opportunities to stage action scenes with than Artoo, unless we're hoping for Jetpack Artoo to make a return.
Any sign that this new trilogy has explicitly assigned the classic archetypes of the original cast to the new ones yet? With Phantom Menace, they basically slotted each of the main cast into familiar analogues. But because Jar Jar ended up becoming a debacle, he ended up being excised from the main cast altogether. If BB8 is going to be both C3PO and R2D2. who will be the obligatory alien in this trilogy? Or maybe this new trilogy would bother relying on that trope. Maybe this new line up won't try to carbon copy the archetypes based on numbers like Episode 1 did.
From what Ive understood, Ford wanted Han to die already in Episode 6, but Lucas denied him that.
I can see JJ and Ford saying this:
JJ: Ford, episode 7 will start production, you have to join
Ford: Nope
JJ: Please, you need to, you're Han Solo
Ford: Only if I die in the movie, I don't want to be in more movies
JJ: Alright, sure
I can see JJ and Ford saying this:
JJ: Ford, episode 7 will start production, you have to join
Ford: Nope
JJ: Please, you need to, you're Han Solo
Ford: Only if I die in the movie, I don't want to be in more movies
JJ: Alright, sure
chesspieceface
Member
Oh you think that having the chess board turning on, referencing the kessel run, the trash compactor, etc is really because of story reasons!
The Hermit
Member
Best scene of the movie
BTW, BB8 is legit. His encounter with R2 was really well done.
When he died I was pretty sure it was Harrison's will.
Next is probably Leia.
And there have been rumors that Disney will make Indy5 happen as a "gift" to Ford for doing Han one last time.
Shuggananas
Banned
Nah, not really. In some of the interviews he just doesn't give a fuck. It's like he wants out of there, out of everything Star Wars.
I'll do a quick character run down..
Rey - For her first acting role in a feature film she was awesome. Also super cute, wow.
Finn - Another solid character. Has the funny lines, qwips etc
Poe - My personal favourite of the three new actors. Wasn't in the film much, but really cool dude. Has that natural born leader look and feel. Unlike the other two who are in way over their heads and learning things, eventually finding their way.
Han / Chewy - Glad they were in this movie quite a bit. Awesome seeing them again. Like I said earlier not sure Han really got the Hero send off he should've but what can you do..
Leia - Dunno was fine I guess. In the film the correct amount of time. Would've been cool, seeing as she's a General now to have her doing real work at the Resistance base.
Luke - I was certain he wasn't even going to be in the film at one point. I guess they lined up episode VIII though with him at the end. Dude looks boss with the beard. Loved it.
I thought that finale helicopter two shot of Luke and Rey was a little out of place though. Seemed like something you'd get in a Fast and Furious movie not Star Wars.
BB - Awesome little dude. Looking forward to seeing more of him. Loved the thumbs up bit in the movie.
Kylo - Not sure yet... I thought the mask and saber were pretty cool. I liked how when he was fighting Fin the little side parts of the saber were shown in use when they cut up Fin's shoulder. It's going to be interesting seeing how Kylo develops in the next movie.
Snoke - Literally don't know anything about this guy. Will see how it develops.
Rey - For her first acting role in a feature film she was awesome. Also super cute, wow.
Finn - Another solid character. Has the funny lines, qwips etc
Poe - My personal favourite of the three new actors. Wasn't in the film much, but really cool dude. Has that natural born leader look and feel. Unlike the other two who are in way over their heads and learning things, eventually finding their way.
Han / Chewy - Glad they were in this movie quite a bit. Awesome seeing them again. Like I said earlier not sure Han really got the Hero send off he should've but what can you do..
Leia - Dunno was fine I guess. In the film the correct amount of time. Would've been cool, seeing as she's a General now to have her doing real work at the Resistance base.
Luke - I was certain he wasn't even going to be in the film at one point. I guess they lined up episode VIII though with him at the end. Dude looks boss with the beard. Loved it.
I thought that finale helicopter two shot of Luke and Rey was a little out of place though. Seemed like something you'd get in a Fast and Furious movie not Star Wars.
BB - Awesome little dude. Looking forward to seeing more of him. Loved the thumbs up bit in the movie.
Kylo - Not sure yet... I thought the mask and saber were pretty cool. I liked how when he was fighting Fin the little side parts of the saber were shown in use when they cut up Fin's shoulder. It's going to be interesting seeing how Kylo develops in the next movie.
Snoke - Literally don't know anything about this guy. Will see how it develops.
BigTastyBurger666
Banned
General Hux's first conversation with Ren specifically mentions using a Clone Army of troopers.
"I'll do another film so I never have to do another film" doesn't really make sense. It's not like he had a contract with Disney before they approached him.
Exactly, the red arm also shows indicates that the resistance doesn't have huge resources to the point where they can just dig out another gold-plated arm for every annoying droid.
That was so damn cool.
Maz was the most disappointing part of the movie. I didn't think she looked bad, but it was just an underwhelming character.
Rey & Chewie for sure. Those two will have some adventures. Though I wonder if Chewie will just wait in the car the entire time Rey is training.
There just wasn't any room in the movie for that. 100% guaranteed we will get to that stuff in Ep.8.
PairOfFilthySocks
Member
What wasn't self-contained? The big jumble of character arcs that get resolved in a half-arsed fashion. Rey discovers the force (in a terribly dull lightsaber fight) and goes to get Luke, who's been...waiting for her? Luke's disappearance pretty good from the perspective of feeling guilt for what happened to the temple, but his motivation for hiding the map doesn't make sense. How his lightsaber ended up where it did is brushed over with terribly sloppy writing. Just because he's found after the film says he's lost doesn't automatically mean the journey to get there was compelling or earned.
Rey was overall a dull character and having so much of her origins being left as sequel bait didn't help matters. Her initial resistance to the force doesn't resonate because there's little motivation to cause her to reject the force, since so much of her story seems to be cut/sequel bait/non-existent.
Kylo is the closest we got to a fleshed-out character but we still didn't get the full picture of just what he found so compelling about the dark side. A little more on his end and we could've had a pretty solid movie. His boss Snoke was sequel bait through-and-through as well. Everything he says is used to set up a sequel.
Yes, yes, ESB sets up ROTJ, but it still works as a self-contained piece about Luke failing.
Anyways, the bigest problem with the film is Abrams' slavish devotion to the original films. He didn't learn a damn thing from that last Star Trek film. Nostalgia pandering at every step that ultimately gets in the way of the film, and knee-caps it every time it tries to do something different(eg. Kylo).
Edit:
This is simply no longer acceptable for me for these blockbuster films.
NekoFever
Member
The Tartakovsky Clone Wars series isn't canon anymore but the CG series and movie are.
The Hermit
Member
Finn ia probably my favorite Star wars character. Naive but with a good heart
NekoFever
Member
That got the biggest laugh in my screening too. Really cute.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
what actually leaked ahead of time, and how early did it leak?
30yearsofhurt
Member
Just got back from a late screening.
That was ten times the movie of the prequels in terms of story and storytelling.
Could have done without the nostalgia and constant references to the original trilogy but it was a pretty good movie.
It had the vista and beauty of ESB while the dramatic beats were a step above.
This felt like a SW film for grownups.
The characters were well thought out, the acting was good and the action was reasonable.
The battles looked like battles and the light saber battle looked like a real swordfight instead of that prequel acrobatic bullshit.
My main criticism however is that I kept looking at all the locations from about halfway through and kept hoping they would end up in Battlefront. It was a little distracting.
That was ten times the movie of the prequels in terms of story and storytelling.
Could have done without the nostalgia and constant references to the original trilogy but it was a pretty good movie.
It had the vista and beauty of ESB while the dramatic beats were a step above.
This felt like a SW film for grownups.
The characters were well thought out, the acting was good and the action was reasonable.
The battles looked like battles and the light saber battle looked like a real swordfight instead of that prequel acrobatic bullshit.
My main criticism however is that I kept looking at all the locations from about halfway through and kept hoping they would end up in Battlefront. It was a little distracting.
Mr. Luchador
Member
The only thing I didn't like was Sith Lord Snape, and Emperor Voldemort.
Also, can we talk about the soundtrack? Because it's amazing.
AMAZING.
Especially the track "The Scavenger" that is played during Rey's introduction. Absolutely wonderful.
Episode 3 has my absolute favorite work by Williams, but this is a definite contender for that top spot once I listen to it a hundred more times or so.
AMAZING.
Especially the track "The Scavenger" that is played during Rey's introduction. Absolutely wonderful.
Episode 3 has my absolute favorite work by Williams, but this is a definite contender for that top spot once I listen to it a hundred more times or so.
Loved it. The biggest compliment I can give it is that it made me care about the new characters, something the prequels were unable to do. It felt like Star Wars again, no more static shots of people walking down corridors talking to tennis balls on sticks, etc. Perhaps it strayed a little too close to the template of ANH but I don't think it affected my enjoyment.
I think they nailed the level of intrigue too, I was satisfied with the introduction to our new heroes but still had plenty of questions that I am excited to have answered. Who is Snoke and how did he become Supreme Leader? Who is head of the Republic? Why did (presumably) Luke leave Rey on Jakku? How much of Vader's history does Kylo actually know? How did Luke not prevent Snoke from corrupting him? I genuinely cannot wait for Episode VIII.
I think they nailed the level of intrigue too, I was satisfied with the introduction to our new heroes but still had plenty of questions that I am excited to have answered. Who is Snoke and how did he become Supreme Leader? Who is head of the Republic? Why did (presumably) Luke leave Rey on Jakku? How much of Vader's history does Kylo actually know? How did Luke not prevent Snoke from corrupting him? I genuinely cannot wait for Episode VIII.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Oh, so Luke is Rey's Father?
I'd say that only speaks in favor of the music.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
For me it was when Kylo goes berzerk with his lightsabre and two stormtroopers about to enter the area look at each other and decide to slowly back away.
I presume so? I thought the executive producer said this movie would continue the Skywalker family story, and seeing as Rey can use the force, and had funky ESB-style visions when she touched Luke's saber, I assumed she was.
AtomnayaKlubnika
Member
Same, but I am sure that when I'll listen to it on Spotify I'll love it.
Mr. Luchador
Member
Inferno313
Banned
This was part of an on-set photoshoot done by Vanity Fair. These were not stills from the shooting of the movie.
Noisepurge
Member
APZonerunner
Member
I'd say by about a fortnight before, everything was out there in terms of Han's fate, Kylo's identity, etc, even if it wasn't out there in a 'concrete' way where everyone was certain it was all true.
because they wanted to use the Lucasfilm -logo instead for nostalgia points
There's also, in fairness, no Disney on the front of the Marvel stuff either. They seem to be content to treat their studios as semi-external from Disney in this way.
The Hermit
Member
I feel the same way. Every OT star wars and even the TP had a self contained story. This one has part of it.
Inferno313
Banned
Because, even though Disney now owns Lucasfilm, this is still a Lucasfilm production and not a "Walt Disney Pictures" production.
They don't put their logo on Marvel films either because that's also a standalone studio.
Shuggananas
Banned
Leia of course
However, yeah that make sense I guess. I wonder who Luke got jiggy with...
We knew about Han's death for a looooong time actually, can't remember exactly when. I think it leaked when they shot it ?
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