[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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How much of Han dying is down to Harrison Ford not really wanting to be involved in the franchise much going forwards?

I don't know, but that scene is what cemented this film in my head as a 10/10 and the best Star Wars movie.

It is actually also a ridiculously relevant movie in terms of a completely flawless implementation of what I have just earlier this week crystallized in my head as what equality and diversity done right should look like.
 
Just watched it again and purely based on the imagery I think Rey is related to Kenobi.


  • On the flip side, in Luke's favor, she stands helpless watching the Wise Old Man get cut down by the main bad guy's lightsaber and shouts out just like Luke did in ANH.

That being said, if it was Kenobi, then we wouldn't have to suffer through the introduction of Mara Jade.
 
Ford definitely said "I'm only doing one".

He had said many times before that he felt Solo's role was complete and should have died because he had nothing to offer to the story anymore.

This seemed like a condition of his to come back only for one.
 
Luke was fucking useless with the saber in ANH. Even after training with Yoda, he still couldn't hang with Vader.

There is no way Rey should have been capable of going toe to toe with Ren.
 
How much of Han dying is down to Harrison Ford not really wanting to be involved in the franchise much going forwards?

Harrison Ford dying was originally intended for ROTJ but Lucas pussied out because he thought it would affect toy sales. Han dying was nailed on the second Kasdan and Ford joined this project.
 
Luke was fucking useless with the saber in ANH. Even after training with Yoda, he still couldn't hang with Vader.

There is no way Rey should have been capable of going toe to toe with Ren.

assuming Ren has had extensive, or even any lightsabre training
 
Luke was fucking useless with the saber in ANH. Even after training with Yoda, he still couldn't hang with Vader.

There is no way Rey should have been capable of going toe to toe with Ren.

Ren was literally torn in half mentally, and had been bleeding out for 20 minutes, while fighting in the cold snow.

It's a wonder he lasted that long. It's not a fair and square victory by Rey.
 
Luke was fucking useless with the saber in ANH. Even after training with Yoda, he still couldn't hang with Vader.

There is no way Rey should have been capable of going toe to toe with Ren.
She had way more melee experience than Luke, and Ren was probably not as good as Vader. Also he was injured and crazy.
 
Luke was fucking useless with the saber in ANH. Even after training with Yoda, he still couldn't hang with Vader.

There is no way Rey should have been capable of going toe to toe with Ren.

Did we see Luke use any kind of close quarters weapon before the lightsaber? Kylo also isn't as strong as Vader was and he was injured too.
 
Ren was literally torn in half mentally, and had been bleeding out for 20 minutes, while fighting in the cold snow.

It's a wonder he lasted that long. It's not a fair and square victory by Rey.

We don't even know what training Kylo has received. For all we know, Snoke could be a complete fraud. The giant hologram he projected was straight out of the Wizard of Oz.
 
Here is what happend in the book:

Rey hesitated, confused by her actions. A long moment passed, in whic Rey sensed a change in the air,
a change in her.Then she opened her eyes and attacked, viciously in a way she didn't know she was capable of, striking again and again as Ren was slowly driven back.
.. One downward cut, she saw. One quick, final strike, and she could kill him. .."

Dark side maybe.
 
Just got back from seeing it. I thought it had a great opening (stopping the blaster bolt in mid-air was cool), a too-fast and ultimately meaningless middle, and a rushed but serviceable ending.

None of the characters save Han, Poe, and Rey really got to do anything, Leia was an exposition-delivery device, and I thought her and Han's conversations about Ben were laying it on a bit too thick, while also preventing the movie from exploring more interesting ideas.

What someone else here said about it feeling too small is right. I think they should have moved on from the BB-8 plotline to something more interesting early on in the film. Imagine if half of A New Hope was just the Empire looking for R2-D2 and C-3PO. Other plot points that took up too much time in my view were Finn's lie about being a Resistance member (when Rey finds out, her reaction is pretty much "Okay.") and the pirates/monsters bits on Han's freighter.

Shorten or cut these bits and you could let the locations and environments have more character and make it clearer why they are the way they are. I have no idea why Maz runs a cantina in a thousand-year-old temple, for one thing. No idea how the Resistance knows who Snoke is. And the movie's final battle between the Resistance and the First Order is resolved in a fifteen-minute skirmish.

I think you summed it up well. The plot is kinda strange and the way it transitions from "find the map" to "blow up the death star" is a little awkward. It doesn't flow well. I mean, the two are only connected by pure coincidence whereas in ANH getting the plans for the death star was the key to blowing it up.
 
We don't even know what training Kylo has received. For all we know, Snoke could be a complete fraud. The giant hologram he projected was straight out of the Wizard of Oz.

He was trained by Luke and Snoke.

All we know is that his formation isn't complete.

Not only that, but confusion can weaken a jedi greatly, and the guy is more than troubled. That change in the script to make him struggle between light and dark was the best decision they made about the whole thing.

Unstable mentally + bleeding out, and remember Chewbacca did mention being cold on that planet, so imagine Ren.

It makes sense that a motivated Rey would kick his ass.

Ren is basically still a child. He was robbed of his childhood so he never really grew up. He is a messed up pawn. He got really scared when he saw Rey get more powerful.

He still wouldn't have lost if he wasn't injured in my opinion. It's like how Finn stood his ground. He would have been murdered in two seconds otherwise.

edit :

Also, it was dark, did she cut off his hand ?

Or just scarred him (diagonally like Squall from FF8 )?
 
Here is what happend in the book:

Rey hesitated, confused by her actions. A long moment passed, in whic Rey sensed a change in the air,
a change in her.Then she opened her eyes and attacked, viciously in a way she didn't know she was capable of, striking again and again as Ren was slowly driven back.
.. One downward cut, she saw. One quick, final strike, and she could kill him. .."

Dark side maybe.

Rey beat Kylo the same way Luke beat Vader in ROTJ, anybody talking about the weight of a lightsaber or their training is not getting what was shown onscreen. Rey beat Kylo in the battle of wills when she was being interrogated, and she did it again when they fought in the snow.
 
Here is what happend in the book:

Rey hesitated, confused by her actions. A long moment passed, in whic Rey sensed a change in the air,
a change in her.Then she opened her eyes and attacked, viciously in a way she didn't know she was capable of, striking again and again as Ren was slowly driven back.
.. One downward cut, she saw. One quick, final strike, and she could kill him. .."

Dark side maybe.
Movie implied dark side too in how she fights him with hate and anger
Luke gonna be yoda
 
You guys need to check your expectations at the door man. I can't believe what Im reading coming off the PT. Jesus Christ.

Its like everyone forgot the feeling they had coming out of TPM saying what the hell was that?
 
He was trained by Luke and Snoke.

All we know is that his formation isn't complete.

Not only that, but confusion can weaken a jedi greatly, and the guy is more than troubled. That change in the script to make him struggle between light and dark was the best decision they made about the whole thing.

Unstable mentally + bleeding out, and remember Chewbacca did mention being cold on that planet, so imagine Ren.

It makes sense that a motivated Rey would kick his ass.

Ren is basically still a child. He was robbed of his childhood so he never really grew up. He is a messed up pawn. He got really scared when he saw Rey get more powerful.

He still wouldn't have lost if he wasn't injured in my opinion. It's like how Finn stood his ground. He would have been murdered in two seconds otherwise.

edit :

Also, it was dark, did she cut off his hand ?

Or just scarred him (diagonally like Squall from FF8 )?

This all makes good sense but I feel we're giving out a lot of excuses for Ren to lose the fight (is cold for him but Rey is fine huh?) and it would have been much easier to digest if they would have spent more time on how he's hurt and stuff. There's a couple of scenes of him hitting his own side about the pain but he's clearly angry and yet she manages to outskill him.

Nah, really, we're not crazy for feeling this all feels a bit forced down our throats if you take into a account what they've showed us on the OT and what we know about the characters.

This guy was trained by luke and has been raised as a Jedi, wether his training was finished or not because he decided to go on killing spree. Its really hard to buy.


Rey beat Kylo the same way Luke beat Vader in ROTJ, anybody talking about the weight of a lightsaber or their training is not getting what was shown onscreen. Rey beat Kylo in the battle of wills when she was being interrogated, and she did it again when they fought in the snow.

Agreed but this makes Kylo look like a pussy and its such a pity. He's only good for breaking computers with his lightsaber.

I also dont understand how this guy could pretty much tear down Luke's academy.

You guys need to check your expectations at the door man. I can't believe what Im reading coming off the PT. Jesus Christ.

Its like everyone forgot the feeling they had coming out of TPM saying what the hell was that?

The movie is awesome, we're here for the debate and the opinion exchange though.
 
I'm surprised to see so many not buying Rey's victory when the whole "sudden surge of will to beat the bad guy" thing is such a common trope.
Hell it's a common Star Wars trope really. Luke wasn't doing too well till Vader mentioned his sister. Similar to that, I think the dark side was at play.
 
Great movie, enjoyable from start to finish. Thought initially they fucked up unmasking kylo since he looked like a sniveling little emo twat, but by the end it made sense. He's supposed to come across that way, he's still young dumb and hasn't finished training. Now he's bruised and scarred and his ego was shit on after losing. He will be much more dangerous after this.

Rey snatching that lightsaber was baller as fuck.
 
You guys need to check your expectations at the door man. I can't believe what Im reading coming off the PT. Jesus Christ.

Its like everyone forgot the feeling they had coming out of TPM saying what the hell was that?

I can count only 2 people here actually saying they didn't like the film.

Rest of us are just nitpicking.
 
This all makes good sense but I feel we're giving out a lot of excuses for Ren to lose the fight (is cold for him but Rey is fine huh?) and it would have been much easier to digest if they would have spent more time on how he's hurt and stuff. There's a couple of scenes of him hitting his own side about the pain but he's clearly angry and yet she manages to outskill him.

Nah, really, we're not crazy for feeling this all feels a bit forced down our throats if you take into a account what they've showed us on the OT and what we know about the characters.

This guy was trained by luke and has been raised as a Jedi, wether his training was finished or not because he decided to go on killing spree. Its really hard to buy.




Agreed but this makes Kylo look like a pussy and its such a pity. He's only good for breaking computers with his lightsaber.

I also dont understand how this guy could pretty much tear down Luke's academy.



The movie is awesome, we're here for the debate and the opinion exchange though.

He stopped several times to hit his side, and then a close up in the blood spilled on the ground.

What else could they do. They already emphasized it when Chewbacca shot him, the blood close ups were to remind people that he didn't tank that shot at all and was actually deeply wounded.

And I mentioned that he was cold because he is also bleeding out. That's two gigantic reasons to lose energy. (in real life anyway)

Rey only has cold to handle.
 
Because there are not a single Jedi left in the galaxy that is fighting off the Empire.

They have no reason to have anti lightsabers weapons.

Also your argument doesn't really make sense, because it's like saying "They would lose to Luke with a blaster and a katana", which is absolutely true.

They would lose to anybody that masters the Force, no matter what they use.

So that's exactly the point, since they have literally no chance of wining against a force user, why would you even develop an anti lightsaber technology ?!

1) There are no Jedi left

2) If there were you would be dead in two seconds

3) Why equip most of your men with it when they are going to fight an army solely fighting with blasters
4) It was fucking cool.
5) It's a fun, lighthearted adventure movie, not The Wire
6) They could serve other purposes beyond fighting lightsaber users, like subduing people non-lethally (wasn't there some kind of shock effect when Finn was hit?)
 
What do you guys think of the Rey/Finn romance?

Also I did love how Finn goes his name, god damn Isaac killed his scenes as Poe
 
What do you guys think of the Rey/Finn romance?

Also I did love how Finn goes his name, god damn Isaac killed his scenes as Poe
Loved it. Though to me, it wasn't really a romance, just a great building of a relationship through two characters who obviously didn't have many relationships. Will almost certainly turn into a romance though, and I look forward to it.
 
Yeah, the stormtroopers are actually referred to as riot control stormtroopers in the merchandising. They have shields as well.


I didn't see it as a romantic relationship.

Dude, they hinted Finn has some strong feelings for her, Maz and Han especially

You spelled Poe wrong in the first line, but right in the second. Weird.

I loved the escape, probably my favourite part
 
What do you guys think of the Rey/Finn romance?

It was nicely done, I don't know if it was necessarily a romance, not yet anyway. It seemed more like two loners finally making a friend. It was certainly more romantic than anything in the prequels though.
 
Because there are not a single Jedi left in the galaxy that is fighting off the Empire.

They have no reason to have anti lightsabers weapons.

Also your argument doesn't really make sense, because it's like saying "They would lose to Luke with a blaster and a katana", which is absolutely true.

They would lose to anybody that masters the Force, no matter what they use.

So that's exactly the point, since they have literally no chance of wining against a force user, why would you even develop an anti lightsaber technology ?!

1) There are no Jedi left

2) If there were you would be dead in two seconds

3) Why equip most of your men with it when they are going to fight an army solely fighting with blasters

Don't think of them as anti-lightsaber weapons, just think of them as electric batons...
 
What do you guys think of the Rey/Finn romance?

Also I did love how Finn goes his name, god damn Isaac killed his scenes as Poe

Finn has a bit of a crush on Rey, but there was no indication that Rey was romantically interested in Finn, like - at all.
She could very well be gay, for all we (don't) know :P
 
Loved it. Though to me, it wasn't really a romance, just a great building of a relationship through two characters who obviously didn't have many relationships. Will almost certainly turn into a romance though, and I look forward to it.

All jokes aside, I'd quite like it if it DOESN'T turn into a romance & they just develop a really close friendship, just to buck the trend.

Now Han is out of the way, maybe Finn is into older ladies, anyway.

I loved the escape, probably my favourite part

Yeah, that was a great part & was nicely done when they finally see each other again too.
 
Bit off-topic here but I'm really bummed out that no channel is airing the previous films much like they all did for Fast and Furious this summer. I haven't seen one of the movies and was hoping to catch them before the new one.
 
Finn has a bit of a crush on Rey, but there was no indication that Rey was romantically interested in Finn, like - at all.
She could very well be gay, for all we (don't) know :P
Oh boy, i can already imagine the reactions from the people mad of having a woman and a black dude as leads
 
All jokes aside, I'd quite like it if it DOESN'T turn into a romance & they just develop a really close friendship, just to buck the trend.

Now Han is out of the way, maybe Finn is into older ladies, anyway.
Would be fine with that too of course, just all signs are pointing towards the opposite.
 
Glad I got my tickets to celebration this year, very intrigued to see what happens now we don't have to build up characters, Rain has a really cool open slate ot work on without worrying too much of back story. Wouldnt be surprised if they never explain Reys origins honestly.
 
Oh boy, i can already imagine the reactions from the people mad of having a woman and a black dude as leads

That's why it would be amazing. Fuck those people. Finn x Poe and Rey x Leia is where it's going.


Would be fine with that too of course, just all signs are pointing towards the opposite.

Yeah, my heart isn't set on either way of developing it, but after TFA harking back to the old movies so much, it'd be nice to do something a bit fresh and interesting with the next 2 movies.

We'll see. I'd book my opening night tickets for the next 5 years of movies right now if I could. They absolutely sold me on SW as a continuing property with this movie.
 
Ok that was some good stuff!

Finn not being a force user make me happy, Captain Phasma / Nux will be his arch enemies moving forward i hope. He needs normal people to fight after all.

Rey Skywalker, well well, abandoned by her father to protect her from the force influence. He has just seen his best friends son fall to the dark side under his schooling, Luke would for sure see this as his only out. Dumped her on a planet in outer rim with and im just guessing here Wedge Antilles 'Max von Sydow' and took off. He gave Wedge the map to find him as in the end he knew the force would find a way to bring her to him. P.s her staff lightsaber will be awesome and green.

Han... cya buddy.

Poe, ok

BB8 great

Kylo, troubled little child, about to become robot man with anger issues.

One issue though, im sure Boltcaster shots are green?
 
oh yeah they're just gonna be friends.

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