I think the point is that Finn started out relatively good before being forced into being a Stormtrooper. You can clearly see that a bunch of these guys don't give a shit about gunning down innocents without even being told. The real-world parallel is the police officer who steps forward to out his corrupt buddies while they call him a traitor and turn on him (which happens to Finn).
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
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I think the point is that Finn started out relatively good before being forced into being a Stormtrooper. You can clearly see that a bunch of these guys don't give a shit about gunning down innocents without even being told. The real-world parallel is the police officer who steps forward to out his corrupt buddies while they call him a traitor and turn on him (which happens to Finn).
Well it's hard to get less planned out than the OT and PT both. That they planned the whole trilogy (and were already writing the script for 8 when this was filming) at all is a step up.
There is a difference between an unresolved question setting something up for later and just a open question for no reason. IMO, the movie has to work as it's own stand alone movie first before it can even begin to presume to set things up for the future. I believe that this movie failed at that. It follows that wonderful JJ line of thinking where everything has to be a mystery to the point that nothing makes sense or is resolved. I don't need every detail explained to me but I do need some backstory, a beginning, a middle, and an end. Not, "tune in next time..."
cant believe more people arent complaining about the magical stormtrooper staff that isnt instantly cut in half by a lightsaber
but no the strange part is people not specifically trained to use a lightsaber being competent with a lightsaber
it is just a virtually weightless sword, should be easy enough to use
EDIT: ouch, forgot this was a star wars movie, have mercy
but no the strange part is people not specifically trained to use a lightsaber being competent with a lightsaber
it is just a virtually weightless sword, should be easy enough to use
EDIT: ouch, forgot this was a star wars movie, have mercy
For Rey and Finn, they gave Ren an out having been shot by Chewbacca.
kitschbeam
Member
I think some of you guys really want the movie to explain EVERYTHING to you.
Future PhaZe
Member
he's definitely hitting it at some point imo
NihonTiger90
Member
On the R2D2 thing, I had the idea that Luke intentionally put him into that mode so that no one could find him until the right people were ready to.
Exploding8
Member
There have been multiple instances in "Legends" and even in canon (Episode 3) where it is shown that you can make weapons to repel lightsaber blades using some kind of energy field / electricity. The elite guard for General Grievous for example, or vibroblades in KOTOR.
He came off as a creep in some scenes. lol
That wasn't anything to do with romance, it was just Finn trying to rescue the "damsel" who clearly wasn't a damsel and thinking he was the hero saving the day when he had no clue what he was doing.
ReplacementPelican
Member
I'm sure she must have been angry as shit about that Stormtrooper with the melee weapon.
I don't think she's seen these films in a long time, she bandwagons a lot on pop culture and probably doesn't remember.
Oh God I hadn't even imagined discussing the PT with her. I lived with a guy who actually preferred them, he likes the special effects and lightsaber duels, weird thing is that he's a really intelligent guy. He got an award at our university for being the best accounting student.
You'd think.
Oh this girl has a lot of bad opinions. My now ex girlfriend got deleted and then spoken about on her Facebook because she corrected her on a feminist stance that she'd taken up. My ex has a degree in sociology. I imagine she'd do the same if I bothered replying.
There's tons of materials/weapons that are lightsaber resistant.
and they put a lot of effort into establishing that chewbacca's gun really fucking hurts
IRRC, the movie stated he was kidnapped basically as a baby. He never even had a real name so it's impossible to say he was "good" before. Again, I'm not saying they are all good guys but the idea that they are all brain washed, kidnapped babies makes killing them less righteous and more of a tragedy. Finn was able to turn away, maybe those guys they are killing could too.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Its a vibroblade. Already canon that they can withstand lightsabers.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I remember hearing that Ren's saber is an old school won that isnt as stable, powerful as the ones you see in PT/OT.
Nevermind, I read your comment too fast.
I could buy that.
serenewarfare
Banned
Is it really that hard to believe that after 30+ years of work they could come up with something to counter the lightsaber at least to some degree?
IAmtheFMan
Member
Yep, you're right. It's just that 15-20 years from now, will it have its own clear identity or will the fact that it was fairly unoriginal be much more glaring? We can't know, but time will tell. I do agree that Ep: 8, done correctly has the potential to be one of the greats.
That Dude John
Member
I liked the Kylo used the "hilt" of the lightsaber.
Sucks Finn has to hold all those L's, tho. I liked him a lot in spite of that which says a lot about how he was written.
And the new(?) force effect that makes it look like people are vibrating in place; how did ya'll like that?
Sucks Finn has to hold all those L's, tho. I liked him a lot in spite of that which says a lot about how he was written.
And the new(?) force effect that makes it look like people are vibrating in place; how did ya'll like that?
No, they had good chemistry. I think they clearly hit it off. She didn't want to be babied, and he stopped, then they respect the hell out of each other after fighting as equals on the Falcon. I think people were expecting them to kiss when they were getting all excited and going over their battle.
I think at that point you will have episode 8 and 9, and will be able to see if it's the successful first act of a trilogy or not. Will it ever be its own absolute standalone film? No, but then, it shouldn't be, it's episode 7 of 9 (hurr). ESB isn't standalone either, it ends on a cliffhanger. Even ANH, the most standalone in the saga, has the villain escape and the Empire still in power.
TheOctodad
Member
I disagree.
I feel like people forget many questions we had at the end of ANH. It's easy in retrospect because we can fill in the gaps so easily and quickly, but episode 4 was full of unresolved issues.
ANH was a bit more contained though, I'll give you that. That said, episode 4 didn't know it was going to have sequels. There was no doubt from the get that this one was getting sequels and if you thought they wouldn't set that up, you don't know Disney
UberTag
Member
I pretty much echo all of your sentiments. A safer, "check all of the necessary boxes" franchise reboot you will not find.
I was actually hoping this trilogy would have more of a unique identity than pandering to nostalgia and revisiting all of the key story beats from A New Hope. That said, I do believe there's a ton of potential for greatness here and so long as they're bold enough to go off the beaten path and not recreate all of the Empire Strikes Back story beats for Episode VIII, I'll be happy.
For the record, I gave The Force Awakens a 7/10. My highest ranking for any of the prequel films was a 6/10 for Revenge of the Sith. That said, I almost respect those films more for being more ambitious and failing... often in spectacular ways... than I do this film.
They did a great job introing BB-8. Love that little guy already.
Here's the thing.
There's plenty you could bitch about.
If I were going to guess, the top complaints will be: Rey is OP, Kylo Ren should have killed or done more, CG Snoke looked stupid, the thing was just a big Death Star, R2-D2 activated out of nowhere, Captain Phasma totally underused, who the hell was Max von Sydow's character, not enough backstory for the new characters, assorted other galactic coincidence-esque plot hole-related matters.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of them. I think Luke reaching out to R2 after Han's death is a fair enough theory about that. Meh. You could bitch about all this stuff for plenty of time. With something like the prequels, I mean, picking them apart for all the ludicrous flaws actually wound up becoming more entertaining than the movies themselves.
I don't see that happening with this movie. You're going to hear tons and tons of people saying is the best besides A New Hope and Empire and they're going to be right. I say that as someone who likes RotJ a lot more than most people seem to. It will be the favorite so far of a lot of people in the younger generations, too. It's a just an old-fashioned great movie, well-shot, well-paced, well-edited. There are interesting set pieces and fun action. Awesome, well-directed performances from a blended cast of legendary characters and total silver-screen newcomers. There are tons of practical effects and fan service elements are handled almost tastefully for the most part. There are characters you like and who you want to see succeed. It HAS a main character. There's a villain who has a clear motivation. It has heart. It's everything any one of the prequel films isn't, and while that's not a hard curve to be graded on it isn't tough to see that people are going to be more excited about this trilogy.
There are plenty of problems, sure. but it's just a fun-as-fuck space adventure film come on. It's star wars.
The best thing you can say about it is that you desperately want the rest of the story as soon as it's over. In this regard, it kicks the shit out of all other recent blockbuster, franchise-launching, there-is-so-obviously-going-to-be-a-sequel "popcorn movies" we've had for at least the past decade.
Shout-outs to ancillary characters Poe, Chewbacca, and BB8. Classy as hell. The chemistry between the entire cast is great. Adam Driver sells the petulant Vader fanboy streak and successfully betrays how easily Luke would kick his ass. Boyega and Ridley are hard to take your eyes off. Anyone who hasn't seen Attack the Block go check it out!
And of course, RIP to one of the great rogue characters in fiction found in Harrison Ford's 38-year-spanning performance as Han Tiberius Solo. We all know that you didn't just shoot first, you shot first and last and no one else shot at all. The Falcon is in fine hands.
There's plenty you could bitch about.
If I were going to guess, the top complaints will be: Rey is OP, Kylo Ren should have killed or done more, CG Snoke looked stupid, the thing was just a big Death Star, R2-D2 activated out of nowhere, Captain Phasma totally underused, who the hell was Max von Sydow's character, not enough backstory for the new characters, assorted other galactic coincidence-esque plot hole-related matters.
I don't necessarily disagree with any of them. I think Luke reaching out to R2 after Han's death is a fair enough theory about that. Meh. You could bitch about all this stuff for plenty of time. With something like the prequels, I mean, picking them apart for all the ludicrous flaws actually wound up becoming more entertaining than the movies themselves.
I don't see that happening with this movie. You're going to hear tons and tons of people saying is the best besides A New Hope and Empire and they're going to be right. I say that as someone who likes RotJ a lot more than most people seem to. It will be the favorite so far of a lot of people in the younger generations, too. It's a just an old-fashioned great movie, well-shot, well-paced, well-edited. There are interesting set pieces and fun action. Awesome, well-directed performances from a blended cast of legendary characters and total silver-screen newcomers. There are tons of practical effects and fan service elements are handled almost tastefully for the most part. There are characters you like and who you want to see succeed. It HAS a main character. There's a villain who has a clear motivation. It has heart. It's everything any one of the prequel films isn't, and while that's not a hard curve to be graded on it isn't tough to see that people are going to be more excited about this trilogy.
There are plenty of problems, sure. but it's just a fun-as-fuck space adventure film come on. It's star wars.
The best thing you can say about it is that you desperately want the rest of the story as soon as it's over. In this regard, it kicks the shit out of all other recent blockbuster, franchise-launching, there-is-so-obviously-going-to-be-a-sequel "popcorn movies" we've had for at least the past decade.
Shout-outs to ancillary characters Poe, Chewbacca, and BB8. Classy as hell. The chemistry between the entire cast is great. Adam Driver sells the petulant Vader fanboy streak and successfully betrays how easily Luke would kick his ass. Boyega and Ridley are hard to take your eyes off. Anyone who hasn't seen Attack the Block go check it out!
And of course, RIP to one of the great rogue characters in fiction found in Harrison Ford's 38-year-spanning performance as Han Tiberius Solo. We all know that you didn't just shoot first, you shot first and last and no one else shot at all. The Falcon is in fine hands.
Future PhaZe
Member
you really dont see casting like this anymore though
i'd love to know what Lucas thinks...
i'd love to know what Lucas thinks...
So I know that there are two more movies, but one of my problems with the movie - of which I only have a few, because I quite liked it overall - was that they really didn't solidify the nature of the Finn/Rey relationship. Is it that Finn likes her, but she doesn't like him? If so, why did she kiss him on the forehead at the end? Was that supposed to be our way of knowing?
Overall, I think it's emblematic with a lot of my issues with the movie - it tried to replicate the old movies (I watched ANH again the other day as prep and wow was that a bad choice) while table-setting for something that they promise will be brand-new. Poe was an awesome character, and at the beginning it really seemed like they were setting up a trio, but then at the end Rey flies off with just Chewy and R2? Phasma really underwhelmed me - for how many interviews they had Gwendolyn Christie do leading up to the film, she really had an incredibly minor role in the movie. She couldn't have had more than 10 lines!
Maybe this is one of those things where as I grow older, I come to expect more from movies, but this felt a lot like Age of Ultron to me, where it makes me really excited for the Civil War that it's setting up, but the movie itself doesn't strike me as anything superb.
Overall, I think it's emblematic with a lot of my issues with the movie - it tried to replicate the old movies (I watched ANH again the other day as prep and wow was that a bad choice) while table-setting for something that they promise will be brand-new. Poe was an awesome character, and at the beginning it really seemed like they were setting up a trio, but then at the end Rey flies off with just Chewy and R2? Phasma really underwhelmed me - for how many interviews they had Gwendolyn Christie do leading up to the film, she really had an incredibly minor role in the movie. She couldn't have had more than 10 lines!
Maybe this is one of those things where as I grow older, I come to expect more from movies, but this felt a lot like Age of Ultron to me, where it makes me really excited for the Civil War that it's setting up, but the movie itself doesn't strike me as anything superb.
The Shapesmith
Member
So to clear up some things it appears Stormtroopers are trained with vibroblades/vibrostaffs. Hence the Stormtrooper fighting Finn with the lightsaber. This explains why the staff wasn't cut in half by the Saber and why Finn handles the weapon fairly competently in the film.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
I just came back from it.
HAN.
FUCK.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Yeah I'm still reeling over this. The really crap thing is over the last week me and my gf watched all of the movies together, she'd never seen them before but expected to hate them. Instead she loved them, (prequels not so much obviously) Han was her favorite character and now she doesn't know what to think. I almost feel partly responsible.
joeyjoejoeshabadoo
Member
Loved the movie, but I thought it leaned a little too heavy on fan service at times. I'm mean they had yet another trench run to kill a Death Star -- I mean planet. That's pretty much my only nit pick. The movie understood what makes Star Wars great and really showcased how much George Lucas had no idea why his original movies worked when he made the prequels.
Aeternus Malum
Member
So, main villain a former Jedi, is related to one of the protagonists and kills a retired war hero while blowing up planets with his evil Empire backing him.
And then rookies save a captured woman from inside this evil superstation.
No wonder they didn't give us plot details. I wonder how would would respond to the movie if they knew it was almost like ANH.
Nevertheless it was a amazing and I can't wait to see it again and I'm buying the Blu-Ray day one. I got into Star Wars in 2006 and never thought there would be another theatrical release.
As for those getting on Kylo Ren for his behavior, I'm sure it was intended. His sophomoric attitude will be all behind him by Episode IX, assuming he's the villain for that long.
And then rookies save a captured woman from inside this evil superstation.
No wonder they didn't give us plot details. I wonder how would would respond to the movie if they knew it was almost like ANH.
Nevertheless it was a amazing and I can't wait to see it again and I'm buying the Blu-Ray day one. I got into Star Wars in 2006 and never thought there would be another theatrical release.
As for those getting on Kylo Ren for his behavior, I'm sure it was intended. His sophomoric attitude will be all behind him by Episode IX, assuming he's the villain for that long.
The weapon he had was a vibroblade that has the ability to go against a saber. As to your second point, it is specifically stated within the Star Wars universe that these are not easily wielded no matter how easy it might look. I would say that I have no problem with it if it wasn't for the fact it has been established in the other trilogies that I SHOULD have a problem with it.
Lots of people were discussing the stormtrooper's baton a few pages back. And assuming lightsaber energy is eletromagnetic in some way, it's not too far-fetched to think it can't cut through some things (if it can attract electricity, there's a good chance it can be repelled by electricity, too).
The lightsaber argument is odd, though. The previous films never said that only force-sensitives can use lightsabers, it was just implied that it's a Jedi's weapon because the level of finesse required to use it is probably beyond the capabilities of most people.
Naw, at least I hope not. Boyega and Ridley got real chemistry.
I think they will end up together but, like the OT, Rey will take longer to reciprocate. Han was into Leia from the jump whereas she didn't come around till Empire. I see Rey and Finn have a similar relationship to that.
It wouldn't surprise me if a jaded Luke tells her to give up on him in order to become a Jedi and she refuses to.
Exploding8
Member
I literally had to google who Phasma is, I never even caught the fact that she has a name.
VistraNorrez
Member
We already know that he "really liked" it.
Vestal
Junior Member
When Chewie yelled my eyes teared up and then they show Leia and I lost it a bit..
FutureZombie
Banned
Good:
1) Han Solo, Chewie, Leia, Luke, C3PO, R2D2... all the old characters were great. Harrison Ford really delivered.
2) Rey was good, and the new droid was really cute.
3) The ending really makes the wait for the next film tough.
4) The costume were great. Everything looked really good and totally fit in with the original trilogy.
Bad:
1) There should have been some explanation of how The First Order, The Rebellion, and The Republic all fit together. I don't quite understand who is in control of what.
2) Kylo Ren should have left his helmet on... and he should not have gotten owned by someone who just picked up a lightsaber. So now he's not intimidating at all. Possibly worst of all, we don't see his motivation for joining the dark side. That should have been explained.
3) Another Death Star was lame, and it didn't stir up any emotions when it was destroyed. I was hoping the plot would really set things in a new direction with new villains that were intimidating and scary. Kylo Ren was a disappointment.
My hopes for episode VIII are lots of Luke, and a strengthened, more developed Kylo Ren. There were a lot of positives in this movie, but the story needs to take off. They played it too safe, and did not go in depth enough with the world building.
1) Han Solo, Chewie, Leia, Luke, C3PO, R2D2... all the old characters were great. Harrison Ford really delivered.
2) Rey was good, and the new droid was really cute.
3) The ending really makes the wait for the next film tough.
4) The costume were great. Everything looked really good and totally fit in with the original trilogy.
Bad:
1) There should have been some explanation of how The First Order, The Rebellion, and The Republic all fit together. I don't quite understand who is in control of what.
2) Kylo Ren should have left his helmet on... and he should not have gotten owned by someone who just picked up a lightsaber. So now he's not intimidating at all. Possibly worst of all, we don't see his motivation for joining the dark side. That should have been explained.
3) Another Death Star was lame, and it didn't stir up any emotions when it was destroyed. I was hoping the plot would really set things in a new direction with new villains that were intimidating and scary. Kylo Ren was a disappointment.
My hopes for episode VIII are lots of Luke, and a strengthened, more developed Kylo Ren. There were a lot of positives in this movie, but the story needs to take off. They played it too safe, and did not go in depth enough with the world building.
Just got back a little while ago. I loved it. I saw Han's death coming a mile away though. Them trying to play the "he still has good in him" card a-la Luke and Vader honestly telegraphed that Kylo wasn't going to be saved. Rey vs Kylo might be my favorite lightsaber duel that didn't involve Luke and Vader.
Also - I'm going to go on the bold prediction route and say that Supreme Leader Snoke is Palpatine.
Also - I'm going to go on the bold prediction route and say that Supreme Leader Snoke is Palpatine.
Future PhaZe
Member
i actually feared for Chewie for a bit when he was planting the bombs--thought he was going to get sabered from behind at any moment
I disagree.
I feel like people forget many questions we had at the end of ANH. It's easy in retrospect because we can fill in the gaps so easily and quickly, but episode 4 was full of unresolved issues.
ANH was a bit more contained though, I'll give you that. That said, episode 4 didn't know it was going to have sequels. There was no doubt from the get that this one was getting sequels and if you thought they wouldn't set that up, you don't know Disney
Again, I'm not against open ended questions, even questions that will never be answered. The whole charm of the Originals is the lack of explanation for many events and past relationships, only vague details that let your imagination run wild. Old Ben talks about the Old Republic, the Clone Wars, Anakin Skywalekr, the Fall of the Jedi and you can just paint the picture yourself. However, ANH also told it's own self-contained story and didn't leave everything open ended.
Leia didn't walk around with a staff she never used, to get back to Alderaan for reasons she refuses to give. Ben Kenobi doesn't talk constantly about Yoda, a powerful Jedi Master, who is missing somewhere and who we all have to find. The vague parts of the OT is the world building, the actual plot is really solid.
Why does it have to be explained right away?
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
Just got back, really enjoyed it.
Story was a little too fast paced, just destroying the Republic like that when we don't even really know what they do. The way the opening crawl read, it seemed like the First Order was a small but highly organized force trying to resurrect the Empire, yet the Republic is still called the Resistance, even by it's own members, despite seeming like the superior force.
Things I liked:
-Kylo Ren's identity. I figured this would be it, but I still think they made it work really well. I do think they could have thrown the EU fans a bone and named him Jacen or even gone with Anakin if they wanted the link to the old series.
-Han's death. Done well, and it worked. I'll admit that I had this spoiled before I went, but it was one of the things I had expected to happen for a long while now, so it didn't really come as a shock at all.
-The light saber fights. Real sword fights, not the dance numbers of the prequels.
Things I didn't like:
-Criminal under use of Captain Phasma and Gwendoline Christie. Expected her to get at least one action scene where she got to do something.
-Cocktease ending. Not even having Luke speak. I think it would have worked better for him to show up on the Not-Death Star.
You done good, JJ. You done good.
Story was a little too fast paced, just destroying the Republic like that when we don't even really know what they do. The way the opening crawl read, it seemed like the First Order was a small but highly organized force trying to resurrect the Empire, yet the Republic is still called the Resistance, even by it's own members, despite seeming like the superior force.
Things I liked:
-Kylo Ren's identity. I figured this would be it, but I still think they made it work really well. I do think they could have thrown the EU fans a bone and named him Jacen or even gone with Anakin if they wanted the link to the old series.
-Han's death. Done well, and it worked. I'll admit that I had this spoiled before I went, but it was one of the things I had expected to happen for a long while now, so it didn't really come as a shock at all.
-The light saber fights. Real sword fights, not the dance numbers of the prequels.
Things I didn't like:
-Criminal under use of Captain Phasma and Gwendoline Christie. Expected her to get at least one action scene where she got to do something.
-Cocktease ending. Not even having Luke speak. I think it would have worked better for him to show up on the Not-Death Star.
You done good, JJ. You done good.
Respond? It was probably the best part about the whole thing.
Elitist1945
Member
Yeah I teared up and seeing Leia feel it crushed me on the inside.
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