[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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But yeah, the ranking for me overall goes

Empire > Star Wars > Force Awakens > Jedi > Sith > Phantom Menace > Clones

It might drop below Jedi after a second viewing, but honestly, it felt really well-paced. The only part of the film that dragged for me was the part where I wanted it to end so I could go pee.
 
Also, why does Kylo scream Traitor at Finn when they're dueling at the end?

It's probably meant as a gesture to drive the point home that he's (trying to be) EVIL, but it just....seems like it falls flat.

It seems like it's personal, but why would Kylo care, specifically, about the First Order's baby-kidnapped-grunt troops?

Kylo is a child lashing out. He grasps on to anything he can to justify his actions. Being a traitor to his cause is both highly offensive to his ego as well as casting doubt upon his actions
 
Just got back. Loved the twist with the story being about Rey not Finn.

I was actually shocked how much I liked Kylo Ren. He worked really well as an unrefined villain, just like there has been unrefined heroes.
 
My theater reacted loudly, as if shocked. (One woman very aggressively grumbled about, "Lazy writing," just a few rows behind me.)

I was genuinely surprised that you could have a room filled with Star Wars people who don't recognize the basic structure of the hero's journey.

Those people are the ones Lucas had in mind when he originally chickened out of killing Han in order to sell toys. Some people want their favourite characters to live forever.

This is best case scenario and really the only decent justification for his awkward and meek appearance.

It could be that Snoke is a fraud. His hologram screamed Wizard of Oz, I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo disposes of him in the next movie and takes over.
 
Even though the movie was aping A New Hope hard, I'm really glad they didn't got he obvious route and just reuse a bunch of iconic lines and shit. I guess the most they did was "I got a bad feeling about this" and the trash compactor.
 
The 'missing part of the map' thing seemed awfully weak to me. If you had no map, fine...but if you have every bit of the map except where he is...well then you know where he is.
 
He signs up for the Order because he's young and naive, because he needs a job, because insert whatever. Then see's them shooting a bunch of innocent people and bolts.

How is that a giganitc idiot or even change the character much at all?

I'm sorry that these films clearly aren't for you, and I'm wondering how you sat through the original films without crying about how unfair everything was.
 
I really liked the movie. I'm seeing it again on Sunday, but nothing stood out as particularly awful, and it's light years ahead of the prequel trilogy.

edit: Snoke seemed a bit lame to me though. I just felt they were trying to hard to make a new big bad guy.
 
The 'missing part of the map' thing seemed awfully weak to me. If you had no map, fine...but if you have every bit of the map except where he is...well then you know where he is.

They didn't have the map. R2 did, and he didn't show it to anyone.

Edit: oh unless you meant the first order.
 
Why must the force practice nepotism? Can't Rey just be some girl från Jakku? Feels weird that everyone is related.

Yeah she can totally be a random but there has to be something up with her guardians disappearing on Jakku and her flashbacks being prominently mentioned in the movie to make me believe she has some connection to it all
 
Let's get to it:

The good:

Fin: Having one of the main protagonists be a Stormtrooper turning good who was also a janitor on Starkiller Base? It works. Way better than expected. He is written well and has great chemistry with Rey.

Rey: Love her. She's vulnerable but tough. Naive but smart. She's Solos successor and Lukes in one person. She cares and you instantly care about her. It will be interesting to see, if they really go through with her being Luke's daughter. There is much possibility there with Vaders grandchildren going at each others throat, but it may also fail very easily.

Kilo Ren: He's Hans son, Vaders grandchild and conflicted. It's alluded that he seeks this much power to do something grand, even if we don't know yet what and why. He is overestimating himself and at the same time frightened that he doesn't live up to his own expectations. He's a Vader fanboy in the best sense. His design alludes to Vader, but doesn't copy it. The helmet seems to be his burden and literally of much weight.
He was set up great and I hope he stays for a while.

In short: I really liked most characters. They were well written and set on an interesting path I want to see played out.

Harrison Ford: First time in over 10 years he showed some range and gave a damn. I loved seeing him getting back into the role and he nailed it.

The practical effects: Every time they could have used CGI and used a practical effect instead I wanted to applaud JJ and friends. In the first half of the movie it works really well and immerses you way more than an CGI could have managed.

BB 8: The best update R2D2 could have gotten. He's the same character, but done in a very good way. I'd love to see the making off of this guy. I'm sure some things were insanely hard to figure out in a practical way, but I'm glad this little guy kept rocking back and forth.

The first half of the movie:
For me this was perfect Star Wars. Yes, there was this insane coincidence of Han finding the Falcon, but everything else was perfectly set up. The bad guys, especially Ren had a phenomenal introduction. Poe's short journey was fun. The main characters are set up really well and even the excuse for using the Millennium Falcon again made perfect sense.

The Lightsaber fight: It was a really good fight and maybe the best in the movies so far. The raw power approach and the wounded dangerous animal behaviour of Ren really came through. He was powerful and dangerous but not at the height of his abilities. Fin and Ren made the best of the situation they could and even if Rey had the situation a little bit too much under control in the end, I really enjoyed the way this fight played out.

The Bad:
Starkiller Base: Everything about this thing dragged the movie down. It doesn't make much sense from a practical point of view, it's literally the same idea already failed twice for the Empire, it still takes up too much time for introduction and is hokey at best nevertheless. It's destruction doesn't make much sense the way they explained it. And the destruction of the 5 planets was way worse than the destruction of Vulcan in ST:09 - we were just not invested in any of them. We've seen nothing of them. We don't care for them. A simple chase story from a Star Destroyer would have made much more sense.

R2D2/Card stuff: Minor point, but didn't make much sense the way they presented it. The way I understood it, R2 was using his energy for finding or reconstructing the card? And nobody understood what he was doing to the point that C3PO had to explain the plot point to another droid? Not very elegantly solved.

The Chrome Trooper/Plasma: Nicely set up, but badly used. She just took the shields down because some Ex-Trooper points a weapon at her? She cooperates way too easily for such a high rank.

Pandering to nostalgia: I expected high levels of nostalgia, but the way the story was set up, it was a bit too much. They played it a little bit too safe. It was at times just Episode IV retold with sprinkles of V throughout.

So aside form Starkiller Base it's only minor stuff I don't want to nitpick about too much - some things didn't make too much sense, but they fit the atmosphere.

The Ugly:
Snoke: Why CGI? Why use him at all at this point? Because you have to have a imperator like figure? It would have been really interesting with Ren as the highest up, being the tormented characters he is, but oh well.

In the end I liked it. It's not the best Star Wars, that title still belongs to V, but this could become my second favorite one. Depends on the rewatches. And I can't wait for more. That's always a good sign.

Explained everything I had to say perfectly. I literally have nothing to bring up you brought up every single point I wanted to point out.

My only real complaint and what kept this movie from being perfect was the pandering to nostalgia.

I AM YOUR SON

3rd Death Star

Still. Just. Why. COULD HAD BEEN PERFECTION.

Oh and the ending and the camera spin was very anti-climatic and need at least a one liner of a "Hi" or "Your here." "It's time." "Daughter." Something!
 
It was everything I wanted.

Yes, I know it was basically a New Hope remake, I get why some may not like that it didn't do something wildly new.

But I don't care, this is what the first good Star Wars movie in three decades needed to be.
 
The 'missing part of the map' thing seemed awfully weak to me. If you had no map, fine...but if you have every bit of the map except where he is...well then you know where he is.

I mean, the galaxy is a bigass place. Even if they narrowed down Luke's location to that small missing chunk they wouldn't have a prayer of actually finding him any time within the next thousand years.
 
How? With whom?

Would luke betray his training after all he has learnt and experienced?

I understand the logic, with the flashback scene and everything, but I hope its not true.

Luke only won because he understood the importance of family and caring for others. Darth Vader turned back to the light because he saw his child being killed.

I don't think after going through that Luke would keep the Jedi ways the same.
 
Those people are the ones Lucas had in mind when he originally chickened out of killing Han in order to sell toys. Some people want their favourite characters to live forever.

I don't like Lucas, but you're wrong on that. He didn't chicken out. They wrote V to end the way it did because Harrison hadn't signed on for VI. When he did, they wrote him in. They planned on just having him die and not going back to him if he didn't sign on.

Sorry boutcha ;)
 
And I knew so little about the movie before I saw it, that I had no idea what the overall goal of the plot was going to be before seeing it either. Imagine my surprise when I found out it focused around the disappearance of Luke!
- So Kylo doesn't even need the mask, he just wears it for style points! What a pretender! Rey was right when she said he was insecure.

I thought it was great that he aspired to live up to Vader's standards and ambitions, and in the end he's probably going to get his wish, now that his body is going to be totally in shambles before he gets rebuilt and forced into a suit a la Vader.
 
Was there anything that indicated Finn was force sensitive? I plan on doing a 2nd viewing on Monday, but I can't remember anything that jumps out at me.

I thought Kylo staring at Finn on Jakku, and Kylo knowing the number/name during the escape sequence meant something.

Might have been just an emotional read by Kylo, but I think it was more hinting at him noticing something different about Finn.
 
Oh, and the weird monster thing on Han's freighter felt really stuck in there, but I guess at the same time it helped develop a bond between Finn and Rey.

Is Smoke supposed to be a giant or was that just the hologram, also is he Darth Plagueis in disguise? He looks like a defigured version of him.

We don't really know yet how big he is, but he was a hologram. He could be even bigger theoretically.
 
That would absolutely ruin Finn's character, and make him a gigantic idiot.

The 'missing part of the map' thing seemed awfully weak to me. If you had no map, fine...but if you have every bit of the map except where he is...well then you know where he is.

I just rolled my eyes and accepted that whole part since they never explained what was missing. Like, how did R2's part help out? Either you know the planet he is on or you don't? So how can their be a missing part? I mean if it's some weird puzzle then yeah, but a straight map? Whatever.
 
The Wendigo Emperor really didn't jive at all. Looked weird, no idea why or what it wants, has no personality other than 'Bring me this!'. Also, can you imagine this big skinny CG wendigo fighting Rey in later films? God I hope not.

Also, Phasma is literally She-Fett. Says a couple lines, does nothing and gets thrown in the trash, literally. Outside of that, actually liked it a lot and genuinely felt like a Star Wars movie.
 
Wonder what peoples perceptions would be if the First order succeeded and actually blew up the resistance, i think it would have quelled alot of the "ANH remastered" vibes people have and left alot of mystery going into 8
 
That death is a hard pill to swallow but it was handled gloriously. The shots and lighting were fucking incredible. Not sure how the saber fight ranks but it was very good and unique in that setting and I didn't feel like it was too short or anything.

Anyway Rey is OP as fuck which I liked, maybe they're setting her up to be who the prophecy is referring to and her know-how was interesting. Very curious to see where that goes.
 
Was good, had fun. Not great, but that's fine.

Wonder what Finn's role in future movies will end up being. Rey is basically Luke and Han combined, but I guess they're setting him up as a general/tactician.

The big disappointment was the sound design though. The music rarely roused any emotions. Lots of things seemed to lack a punch with sound and caused certain action scenes to be lacking. I doubt it was the theater I was in, but man. Something seemed off.
 
How? With whom?

Would luke betray his training after all he has learnt and experienced?

I understand the logic, with the flashback scene and everything, but I hope its not true.

You mean the creepy sexless old Jedi cult that totally failed?

Im pretty sure the "Jedi cant love" shit was abandoned.
 
I thought Kylo staring at Finn on Jakku, and Kylo knowing the number/name during the escape sequence meant something.

Might have been just an emotional read by Kylo, but I think it was more hinting at him noticing something different about Finn.

I took that as a hint towards that too. Like he felt something from him, even in a brief moment.
 
The Wendigo Emperor really didn't jive at all. Looked weird, no idea why or what it wants, has no personality other than 'Bring me this!'. Also, can you imagine this big skinny CG wendigo fighting Rey in later films? God I hope not.

Thats what sequels are for, thats the mystery.. I'm convinced thats just a hologram illusion and not what he looks like.

You do know thats Andy Serkis right?...Give him some credit.
 
That death is a hard pill to swallow but it was handled gloriously. The shots and lighting were fucking incredible. Not sure how the saber fight ranks but it was very good and unique in that setting and I didn't feel like it was too short or anything.

Anyway Rey is OP as fuck which I liked, maybe they're setting her up to be who the prophecy is referring to and her know-how was interesting. Very curious to see where that goes.

You mean the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force?

Wasn't that just "Anakin will bring balance to the force by throwing the Emperor into a hole"?
 
They didn't have the map. R2 did, and he didn't show it to anyone.

Edit: oh unless you meant the first order.

Yeah, the First Order said they had R2's part already.

Also I'm an idiot apparently. I spent the whole movie waiting for this character to show up. Didn't remember until after that she was from the Star Trek trailer lol
 
Was good, had fun. Not great, but that's fine.

Wonder what Finn's role in future movies will end up being. Rey is basically Luke and Han combined, but I guess they're setting him up as a general/tactician.

The big disappointment was the sound design though. The music rarely roused any emotions. Lots of things seemed to lack a punch with sound and caused certain action scenes to be lacking. I doubt it was the theater I was in, but man. Something seemed off.

phantom menace and revenge of the sith had much better music than this. prolly attack of the clones too but i have rewatched that one the least and I don't want to find out

rey's theme was great though.

fuck no to a snoke fight. i hope that old 5 dollar ancient aliens looking muthafucka is barely in the sequels.
 
Assuming Snoke is a giant, can we expect some Attack on Titan action with lightsabers?
Could you imagine a giant lightsaber smacking and swinging away at Rey and Luke.
It's gonne be like some Raiden vs Metal Gear Ray shit lol.
giphy.gif
 
The big disappointment was the sound design though. The music rarely roused any emotions. Lots of things seemed to lack a punch with sound and caused certain action scenes to be lacking. I doubt it was the theater I was in, but man. Something seemed off.

Hmm. I was in the front row and I assumed it was us missing a couple audio channels. Did they really jack up the audio mixing that bad?
 
Was good, had fun. Not great, but that's fine.

Wonder what Finn's role in future movies will end up being. Rey is basically Luke and Han combined, but I guess they're setting him up as a general/tactician.

The big disappointment was the sound design though. The music rarely roused any emotions. Lots of things seemed to lack a punch with sound and caused certain action scenes to be lacking. I doubt it was the theater I was in, but man. Something seemed off.

You bring up a good point, Finn got fucked up bad in the fight (with Kylo slicing up Finn's spine). Wonder if he'll be disabled or if he'll be fine or even if they have to put him in some sort of body suit of metal so he can walk.
 
Wait, who's role was Andy Serk?
 
You mean the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the force?

Wasn't that just "Anakin will bring balance to the force by throwing the Emperor into a hole"?

Obviously balance hasn't been achieved. I would say so if it were not for the fact that apparently as soon as Luke tried to restart the Jedi order that things went batshit again.
 
Like I said, apparently child soldiers are a thing now. Big fucking deal. This to me is not at odds with a universe that has plenty of misery: slave laborers, sex slaves, serial killers, bounty hunters, and even good guys like Han who regularly kill without flinching. Why do you want to be coddled? Who promised you this movie franchise was rated G?

I'm sorry that these films clearly aren't for you, and I'm wondering how you sat through the original films without crying about how unfair everything was.

What don't you guys get? I'm not saying people shouldn't die or bad things shouldn't happen or our heroes shouldn't kill anybody.

Han shooting Greedo is cool. Leia strangling Jabba is cool. A million Stormtroopers getting blasted is cool. Because all of that is black and white good guys fighting bad buys.

I don't consider brainwashed child soldiers necessarily bad guys. So that introduction is off putting for such a previously simple black and white universe. Saying "I don't think these movies are for you" is frankly stupid because this element is out of place from the previous films.
 
Great, great movie.

Retreads are obvious and slightly annoying (they manage to destroy a third death-star, really?) but this movie has a good structure and is so full of heart with tons of Great moments.

Some highlights:
Ren was an amazing and twisted villain.
Ray, Finn and Poe were great new main characters. Ray especially.
Han Solo / Harrison Ford was better than one could hope for. Better than ever actually.
Snoke felt more alien than anything in recent Star-Wars memory.
Spot-on humor.
Lightsaber battles are dangerous and messy!

I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KILLED HAN SOLO! This was up there with I'm your father to me.

And that final Luke reveal... sogood.
 
Not wanting to complain, but just asking, wasn't there a Star Wars game where a regular stormtrooper was a main character and eventually became a Jedi, I loved that Finn reminded me of this, but I forgot the name of the Star Wars game.
I think Kyle Katarn started off as a Stormtrooper/Imperial officer in Dark Forces 1.

Also, Kyle Katarn really needs to come back to the canon. He's awesome.
 
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