[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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You liked it but you're hung up on a simple plot detail that's totally conceivable in the SW universe? Abrams had terrorists in Star Trek and now alludes to child soldiers here. If you truly can't reconcile with the new direction and adding a touch of real-life humanity into these sci fi flicks, then no, I don't think they're for you.
And this was my original assessment which I and a few others hardly think is so stupid:
But hey whatever, let's have your bland Finn ideas shitting up the trilogy to drive everyone away from sheer boredom and predictability. Let's also have the next film dwell on the ramifications on child soldiers and kidnapped babies to really fill those theater seats.
One definite difference is that Finn is easily the audience surrogate, the "relatable character", like Luke was in the original trilogy, moreso than any of the other leads.
I thought it was an enjoyable movie, but not a particularly great one. I feel like it was far clunkier than some of Abrams' past efforts and Kasdan seemed to have an uneven touch.
Generally, the plot is okay. I like the ideas in it, even if they were well-worn. Creed showed that you can repeat story structures and still make an effective, moving film.
But the execution is really off in places. I feel like I can nail it down to several factors:
1) Characters: In general, I liked most of them. Finn was fun and likable, Kylo was interesting, etc. I appreciated the humor throughout.
But, more fundamentally, I think the character backgrounds and motivations were revealed at strange times or in too perfunctory of a manner. Revealing Kylo's heritage in an off-hand way and revealing his face before meeting Han felt like miscues that would have been better timed elsewhere. Other aspects like Han and Leia's interactions felt good, but were marred by strange dialogue (like the constant referencing of "Snoke" by his name, when the Emperor was never referred to in that way). Other newly introduced characters like Maz and Phasma felt completely pointless (largely because they were intended to be utilized differently).
And there is a slight issue with Rey. It feels like the storytellers withheld vital information about her character (because there's clearly something more about her past and her knowledge of the Force), and that kept me from truly connecting with her. I think that was a bad move from a character empathy standpoint.
2) Direction: Other things, like JJ's direction and cinematography drove me nuts. Oftentimes, you're thrown into scenes without even a simple establishing shot to geographically lay out the space the characters are interacting in. Sometimes we're being thrown into battles and there is no spatial awareness of the physical distance between those firing at each other or what they're aiming at. It generally makes the laser shooting and aerial combat sort of boring (particularly Poe's raid on Starkiller), because we don't know who's gaining the upperhand, what the goal is, or what the stakes are. I'd argue the only effective action scenes in the movie are the Falcon chase and the lightsaber fights at the end because they maintain spatial awareness throughout.
(Also on the cinematography note, the constant usage of close-ups made some scenes look cheap and felt like a waste of the real-world locations they filmed at. Why go to film on-location, if you're going to film the location out-of-focus behind giant talking heads?)
(3) There are narrative issues from a conceptual standpoint (without going into the obvious stuff, like the Starkiller). I think the whole "Luke is missing" angle just doesn't work. We're not given a good reason for it, nor is there any urgency to the mission to find him, especially when the characters are sidetracked by other things throughout the film. Simply put, we don't understand why all of the sudden Luke is needed right this second, given that the good guys seem to be blowing through hundreds of stormtroopers and besting dark siders without him. It doesn't help when the whole "mystery" of the movie is solved because R2 just randomly decides to "wake up" at the end and present the portion of the map where Luke is hiding.
Additionally: they blew it in terms of the lack of exposition. I appreciate leaving some things vague and allowing the audience to fill in the gaps, but there was nothing to chew on. We know about as much about Snoke, the First Order, the Knights of Ren, the Resistance, and the New Republic at the film's conclusion as we did in its introduction. That isn't effective world-building; it's declining to world-build. Maybe the prequels went too far with exposition, but explaining the basic state of the universe in a seven film series isn't asking too much, especially thirty years after the last chronological film.
4) Editing: This movie is missing a good 20 minutes and it shows. Characters come and go without you even getting a chance to say goodbye (Maz, Phasma). We go to places sometimes without even setting that place up (I'm thinking of the first reveal of Starkiller Base in particular). Other moments have no chance to breathe (like Finn's buddy dying or Maz's scenes), but others go on awkwardly long (like Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene, where it's just boring shots of people grimacing at each other for a minute). Some of the "visual jokes" are also mistimed or improperly conveyed, like Han's hyperdrive into the Starkiller panet, which should be a "funny" and "exciting" moment, but just comes off whatever.
5) John Williams: He didn't put in his best work here. I'm struggling to think of a single new motif that I found memorable. Arguably, his weak score hurt the movie's emotional beats and intended "hell yeah" moments more than anything else I listed above.
It probably sounds like I hated it, but I didn't. I had a good time and look forward to the next one. But I question whether or not I'm looking forward to the next one primarily because I wasn't satisfied here.
Generally, the plot is okay. I like the ideas in it, even if they were well-worn. Creed showed that you can repeat story structures and still make an effective, moving film.
But the execution is really off in places. I feel like I can nail it down to several factors:
1) Characters: In general, I liked most of them. Finn was fun and likable, Kylo was interesting, etc. I appreciated the humor throughout.
But, more fundamentally, I think the character backgrounds and motivations were revealed at strange times or in too perfunctory of a manner. Revealing Kylo's heritage in an off-hand way and revealing his face before meeting Han felt like miscues that would have been better timed elsewhere. Other aspects like Han and Leia's interactions felt good, but were marred by strange dialogue (like the constant referencing of "Snoke" by his name, when the Emperor was never referred to in that way). Other newly introduced characters like Maz and Phasma felt completely pointless (largely because they were intended to be utilized differently).
And there is a slight issue with Rey. It feels like the storytellers withheld vital information about her character (because there's clearly something more about her past and her knowledge of the Force), and that kept me from truly connecting with her. I think that was a bad move from a character empathy standpoint.
2) Direction: Other things, like JJ's direction and cinematography drove me nuts. Oftentimes, you're thrown into scenes without even a simple establishing shot to geographically lay out the space the characters are interacting in. Sometimes we're being thrown into battles and there is no spatial awareness of the physical distance between those firing at each other or what they're aiming at. It generally makes the laser shooting and aerial combat sort of boring (particularly Poe's raid on Starkiller), because we don't know who's gaining the upperhand, what the goal is, or what the stakes are. I'd argue the only effective action scenes in the movie are the Falcon chase and the lightsaber fights at the end because they maintain spatial awareness throughout.
(Also on the cinematography note, the constant usage of close-ups made some scenes look cheap and felt like a waste of the real-world locations they filmed at. Why go to film on-location, if you're going to film the location out-of-focus behind giant talking heads?)
(3) There are narrative issues from a conceptual standpoint (without going into the obvious stuff, like the Starkiller). I think the whole "Luke is missing" angle just doesn't work. We're not given a good reason for it, nor is there any urgency to the mission to find him, especially when the characters are sidetracked by other things throughout the film. Simply put, we don't understand why all of the sudden Luke is needed right this second, given that the good guys seem to be blowing through hundreds of stormtroopers and besting dark siders without him. It doesn't help when the whole "mystery" of the movie is solved because R2 just randomly decides to "wake up" at the end and present the portion of the map where Luke is hiding.
Additionally: they blew it in terms of the lack of exposition. I appreciate leaving some things vague and allowing the audience to fill in the gaps, but there was nothing to chew on. We know about as much about Snoke, the First Order, the Knights of Ren, the Resistance, and the New Republic at the film's conclusion as we did in its introduction. That isn't effective world-building; it's declining to world-build. Maybe the prequels went too far with exposition, but explaining the basic state of the universe in a seven film series isn't asking too much, especially thirty years after the last chronological film.
4) Editing: This movie is missing a good 20 minutes and it shows. Characters come and go without you even getting a chance to say goodbye (Maz, Phasma). We go to places sometimes without even setting that place up (I'm thinking of the first reveal of Starkiller Base in particular). Other moments have no chance to breathe (like Finn's buddy dying or Maz's scenes), but others go on awkwardly long (like Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene, where it's just boring shots of people grimacing at each other for a minute). Some of the "visual jokes" are also mistimed or improperly conveyed, like Han's hyperdrive into the Starkiller panet, which should be a "funny" and "exciting" moment, but just comes off whatever.
5) John Williams: He didn't put in his best work here. I'm struggling to think of a single new motif that I found memorable. Arguably, his weak score hurt the movie's emotional beats and intended "hell yeah" moments more than anything else I listed above.
It probably sounds like I hated it, but I didn't. I had a good time and look forward to the next one. But I question whether or not I'm looking forward to the next one primarily because I wasn't satisfied here.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Yep. The only course for Kylo is deeper into darkness. I need to hate him like I hated Joffrey going forward because I'm never gonna not see him as the brat that killed Han.
I'm back and it's glorious.
I'm obviously still processing it. I loved it and thought it was fantastic. It's definitely in the top 3 Star Wars films.
I don't have an epic long write up or anything at the moment.
I'll say this. J.J did a damn good job making me care about the characters. I loved Rey and Finn and Kylo. But I think Rey's arch is the best, I think she is fantastic and I can't wait to see what she can do in VIII.
I lost my shit at the scene when she picked up the lightsaber and then proceeded to beat the shit out of Kylo (or Ben). And the acceptance of the light side during that battle is so well done.
I though it was really well done.
Bring on Luke and Rey in VIII
Also. Fantastic choice of having silence at the very start and the first blast of sound you hear is the theme.
J.J did it.
I'm obviously still processing it. I loved it and thought it was fantastic. It's definitely in the top 3 Star Wars films.
I don't have an epic long write up or anything at the moment.
I'll say this. J.J did a damn good job making me care about the characters. I loved Rey and Finn and Kylo. But I think Rey's arch is the best, I think she is fantastic and I can't wait to see what she can do in VIII.
I lost my shit at the scene when she picked up the lightsaber and then proceeded to beat the shit out of Kylo (or Ben). And the acceptance of the light side during that battle is so well done.
I though it was really well done.
Bring on Luke and Rey in VIII
Also. Fantastic choice of having silence at the very start and the first blast of sound you hear is the theme.
J.J did it.
I think R2 was programmed to reactivate at a certain point, so that Luke could be found. It seems that Rey's presence did it, though we don't know exactly why.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Because she's Luke's daughter or protege
She will come around. Way too much Chemestry for him to stay locked in that zone forever.
Just got back. Overall really liked it, had some problems with it though. Music was a huge step down from all the previous films; sounded like generic blockbuster filler music aside from the few instances where the old theme was used, and I think weakened the emotional impact of some scenes. Starkiller base was about as predictable as it gets and felt like it dragged the plot down. I didn't care one bit about the planets that were destroyed nor even about the destruction of the base tbh. It wasn't executed very well. Kylo, Rey and Finn are fantastic characters and the acting was great throughout, including Harrison Ford who felt like he gave a damn about this movie and delivered a great performance. I'm intrigued by how little we know about Snoke and Luke. I hope Snoke doesn't end up being the "generic CGI bad guy" he was portrayed as here, but at least we know Kylo has depth. The whole R2D2 map thing felt silly. Pacing was good, main storyline is interesting and I look forward to finding out where they go with it now that this safe entry is done. Please no more death stars. And no, it doesn't help to make a joke in the movie about there being lots of death stars. Stop it.
8.5/10 and my third favorite Star Wars movie behind IV and V.
8.5/10 and my third favorite Star Wars movie behind IV and V.
Why wouldnt R2 then just tell everyone?
half a moon
Banned
7>4/5/6
Kylo Ren >Vader
Time to read this thread
Kylo Ren >Vader
Time to read this thread
Ennosuke
Member
This last helicopter shot was really bad, wasn't like Star Wars at all.
And it kind of bugs me, that we know nothing about Snoke. Where does he come from? Why haven't we seen him before? Is he just a palpaltine copy? Wouldn't surprise me after seeing TFA.
Oh and the new music was bad and forgettable
And it kind of bugs me, that we know nothing about Snoke. Where does he come from? Why haven't we seen him before? Is he just a palpaltine copy? Wouldn't surprise me after seeing TFA.
Oh and the new music was bad and forgettable
I'm glad they didn't try and shoehorn a romance in there lol
Oh god I forgot about that... That was quite bad. No need to end it like that.
I'm sure we'll find out in the next film.
What? We're talking about Star Wars. The fairy tale with knights and princesses and magic. It absolutely is about good vs evil.
"There is good in him. I felt it... I can turn him back to the good side."
"I know there is good in you. The emporer hasn't driven it from you fully."
And a million other lines.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I'm glad that they put a dog ear on the Snoke thing. I was content knowing all that they told me. We still have VIII and IX to see more of Snoke.
Digital-Hero
Member
bananafactory
Banned
I will say I'm a bit disappointed with Snoke's appearance. He kind of looks like a cross between a troll from one of the LOTR movies and Voldemort or something from Harry Potter. Was expecting something a bit more...unique, I guess? Maybe I'll feel differently when we see him for real and not a hologram.
Why didn't he tell Luke Darth Vader was his father? Presumably he is not allowed to divulge certain information.
x Power Pad Death Stomp x
Member
R2 was waiting to see if the movie was better than the prequels before he would get involved.
SomedayTheFire
Member
So I think I only have two things I'm not sure about. In an early scene with Finn and Poe, there are cuts between each others faces and in every cut Finn's face changes from sweaty to non sweaty. It was hilarious.
Also if the Starkiller uses the sun as power, shouldn't it be a one and done weapon?
Also if the Starkiller uses the sun as power, shouldn't it be a one and done weapon?
brandonh83
Banned
I mean maybe. It doesn't bother me, but was pretty much just a reason for Anakin to be trained. However Rey is ridiculous, god damn. When she fucked with Ben and literally made him retract and fear, and then beat his ass in a saber duel full-stop, you gotta wonder. I'm saying this girl is like... if Yoda gave her any condescending lip she'd punt the little shit like a football.
Rey will most definitely be connected to someone from the old movies. The blatant foreshadowing wouldn't make sense if she wasn't.
And Vader wasn't a nonsense word, dammit. It means 'Father' in Dutch, which is why the Empire Strikes Back twist was ruined for Dutch people even before George Lucas actually wrote it.
Seriously. Snoke looked like a rejected LOTR or Harry Potter concept art. Almost looked unfinished
TheKaeptain
Banned
R2 woke up right when Rey got back. Also, if notice he went with her not BB-8.
Alright, just got home from the theatre. Bout to drop these fresh impressions straight off the dome for all your candy asses.
First off, I attended the marathon event. I managed to go with my uncle who introduced Star Wars to me as a 4 year old, so that was pretty cool. Got an awesome lanyard and got to experience this film with a great, enthusiastic crowd of diehard fans. Since I valued sleep over the prequels, I decided to sleep instead of torture myself with 6 hours of prequel watching in an uncomfortable theatre chair at 4:45am. So I showed up at 12 noon just in time for A New Hope. This was my first time watching the original trilogy in theatres, and it was an unforgettable experience. Seeing the AT-AT's on the big screen... I got chills!
Speaking to people seated near me, I was that most people who attended the prequels were laughing at the terrible writing, the memes like Vader's NOOOOOOOO, booed at midiclorians... all that good stuff. I think I made the right decision to just sleep instead
Different story with the original trilogy, though. My crowd cheered at every opening crawl. When the death star was destroyed in episode IV. We audibly cringed (eeeeeuuugghhhhhhh) when Leia kissed Luke. We applauded at "IT'S A TRAP!" And yes, we booed the FUCK out of the Hayden ghost at the end of the special edition of Jedi. That was one of the louder reactions of the night, in fact.
All in all, it was an awesome experience and the perfect atmosphere for a new Star Wars film. All the Toronto media outlets were recording us as we entered and exited the theatre between films, interviewed cosplayers and fans... it all felt like a huge deal and added to the excitement and hype. Best of all, if anyone decided not to do the marathon because they were afraid of "burning out" on Star Wars before the new film, all I can say is this: Those 6 hours of the original trilogy felt like 10 minutes. Seriously, it fucking flew by. I barely felt it, and before I knew it that opening crawl for Force Awakens was before us.
And with that, lets get to my thoughts on the new movie itself. First thing's first, here's my rankings of the Star Wars films not including TFA just so you know where my tastes lie:
GOD TIER:
Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars (these are my two favorite films of all time, respectively)
GREAT TIER:
Jedi (somewhere in my top 15 of all time)
SHIT TIER:
Revenge of the Sith
Clones
TPM (Sith is much better than episodes 1 and 2, but all three are abominations that are hopefully forgotten as the years go on and more Star Wars films are made. The Plinkett reviews echo my thoughts almost spot on with these films)
Okay, so Force Awakens. I'm gonna try and break this shit down from start to finish based on what I remember.
WHAT I LIKED:
Pretty much fucking everything. This movie kicked ass. I had low to medium expectations going into the film. The prequels absolutely crushed me. Coming off them, my realistic expectations were as follows: "I hope this movie is much better than the prequels, but I don't expect it to be on the level of the original trilogy, even Jedi. If JJ could do to Star Wars what he did with Star Trek in 2009, I'd be super satisfied."
And he succeeded. After one viewing, I have to say that I feel like the film is at Jedi's level. Maybe a little lower. But it exceeded my expectations! And I didn't expect that at all! I knew going in that it wasn't going to reach the greatness of Star Wars or Empire. And it didn't. And it didn't have to! Those are impossibly high standards imo. So that's totally fine. But I have no problem calling this film a GREAT film, and that is something I had a hard time believing I'd say in 2015 about a Star Wars film.
Starting off, that opening crawl. Oh my god. My theatre popped HUGE when the STAR WARS logo and EPISODE VII came up, as expected. I actually recorded a video of it, which I will treasure forever. An unforgettable moment. Also, the text itself. Straightforward! Explains exactly what has happened, why it's important, and what will have to happen next. Words a child could understand. I'm going to be saying this a lot: Just like the original trilogy, and the POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THE PREQUELS. So great. Already off to a great start. The crawl alone had me super hyped. Of course Star Wars Episode VII would revolve around a lost Luke Skywalker. Its perfect.
I also want to mention the new cast right off the bat. Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac and John Boyega knocked it out of the fucking park. All three of them are oozing charisma, had fantastic delivery, were funny, sounded like real people... watching it back to back with the original trilogy, I had those Luke/Han/Leia feels right away. They all made awesome first impressions and didnt let up for the rest of the film. I look forward to seeing their adventures in future films.
Theres another new cast member that I cant forget: BB-8! I was scared that BB was just going to be an R2-D2 clone but Im happy to say thats not the case. Theres obvious similarities here and there but theres enough differences to make BB feel unique. Hes really damn cute, like a small puppy. That thumbs up with the lighter killed me. Just perfect timing on that one. If theres any toy I feel an urge to purchase after this film, its BB-8.
Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader, in more ways than one. Ill have more to say on this in the What I didnt like section, but for now, I am very happy to say hes not a Vader clone, which would have been the easy way to go with this character (and not even necessarily the wrong way). The idea that there exists a Sith Lord (or whatever theyre calling them now. Bad guy with a red lightsaber is too long) that is fighting temptation to go to the light side is really interesting. I feel like weve only gotten a small taste of Ben Solo in this film, and he will be explored far deeper in episode VIII. Also, they made the cross guard make sense! What seemed so dumb at first is actually smart as fuck! Then, of course, you have his involvement in arguably the biggest and most important scene in the film, but more on that later.
Its important to talk about the original cast. One of the major concerns when the film was first announced was that theyd steal the spotlight from the new kids. Obviously that wasnt the case at all. R2 and C3P0 were barely in the film, but it felt just right. Leia also struck that balance. Obviously Luke was saved specifically for the ending, and while the Luke fanboy in me would have loved to see more of him, he was handled PERFECTLY in this film, and he will surely appear more in the coming episodes.
Han Solo played the Obi Wan role in this film. Harrison Ford was the anchor of this film, like Sir Alec Guinness before him. Like Guinness, he brought that veteran presence that added a TON to the film and only elevated the new cast rather than take away their thunder. While I didnt read any spoilers, Han Solos death in the film was a predictable one: he was originally to die in Return of the Jedi but Lucas didnt want to end the saga with a bittersweet ending, so he was kept alive. Ford got his wish this time around, and it was a great scene. Poor Chewie
On that note, lets talk about the call backs. Like Creed was to Rocky earlier this year, The Force Awakens works not only as a 7th installment of the franchise, not only as a sequel that takes place chronologically after episode 6 in the franchise and includes actors and characters from said film, but also acts as a modern reboot of the franchise AND is a spiritual retelling of the first film. It worked extremely well for Creed, and it works extremely well here. Just as the story of Rocky is timeless and can be retold as the years go on, so too can the story of Star Wars: A New Hope. As I mentioned before, the veteran Han Solo plays the Obi Wan role from A New Hope. He gets the new blood into the death star and is slain by the blade of the films main villain, someone very close to him, as the new blood looks on from a distance. You have your cantina scene with weird yet appropriate jazz music in the background. The basement of the cantina brings fearful visions to Rey that are reminiscent of the cave on Dagobah that Luke enters. You have your Going somewhere, Solo? scene where Han tries to get out of swindling some alien busters. Kylo Rens distorted voice and dress is reminiscent of Vaders. Our protagonist is going nowhere on a desert planet until extraordinary events take place, forcing her to leave and realize the larger universe. I can go on and on and on here. The point is: after the prequels shit all over the legacy of Star Wars and deviated so heavily from the greatness of those original three films, this is exactly what the doctor ordered. A spiritual retelling of A New Hope is not only what this fanbase so desperately needed, but is also a fantastic way to introduce this world to a new generation of children. While there were many call backs, it never felt like a lame rip off of the original film. For every call back, there was also unique, new twist. I love how it was Rey going all stealth mode in the death star, calling back to Obi Wan in A New Hope. They could have easily given that role to Han, but decided to mix it up. Similarly, the jedi mind trick scene brought to mind the scenes from the original trilogy, but rather than give a sense of wonder (Obi-Wan in ANH) or mystique (Luke in ROTJ) like those films, The Force Awakens provides a laugh out loud moment, and it was perfect.
This film absolutely nailed its humor. Lawrence Kasdan is back and my GOD does it show. This thing had original trilogy writing and humor all over it. I laughed out loud multiple times, just like I did with the original trilogy. Such a fucking far cry from the shitty baby fart joke "humor" of the prequels. Some of my favourite humor, something that they didnt really explore at all in the original trilogy, involved the villains. The last thing I expected was Kylo Ren to be involved in with some of the funnier scenes in the film. From the face to face confrontation with Poe (Ok, who talks first?) to him raging like a mother fucker on those computers when he heard that Finn was alive and escaped, to him destroying that door and the storm troopers PEACING THE FUCK OUT to the jedi mind trick scene so many laughs were had. The list goes on, too. These are real characters with real emotions. Like the original trilogy. They talk like real people, they celebrate like real people. They joke and use sarcasm like real people. They use the force.
Practical effects. They were back and they were spectacular. I had a huge smile on my face as Rey walked around that marketplace and later when they went into that cantina. So many real things, as opposed to fake, ugly CG shit. This world is absolutely lived in. It's not a green screen video game world, that's for sure.
Art direction is top tier, as youd expect from a Star Wars film. The new stormtrooper designs, BB-8, the lightsaber battle in the snowy woods the list goes on. Its a gorgeous film from top to bottom. The cinematography was top notch as well. The shot of Rey speeding by the downed Star Destroyer, her chilling by the downed AT-AT, and of course the final shot while its too early to say for sure, I saw stuff in this film that I think will become iconic scenes in Star Wars history. There were more memorable shots in this film then all three prequels combined.
The lightsaber fights were great. Gone is the heavily choreographed flippy perfect emotionless bullshit of the prequels and back from the OT is the raw, gritty battles between two people trying to kill each other with laser swords. Loved it. Again, JJ knew just what to deliver on after the prequels to reassure fans that things will be better from now on, and I really do hope it continues.
My crowd cheered at many points during the film, but two scenes stand out. First was Rey using the force to grab the lightsaber during the final battle. Just fantastic stuff. What a moment. THIS IS STAR WARS. Next, as youd expect, was the reveal of Luke. That one gave me the goosebumps, as Luke was always my favourite character in Star Wars. I can say with complete confidence that the final shot in The Force Awakens is the finest final shot of all Star Wars movies. Perfection.
WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE:
Very little. Nothing about this movie had me thinking OKAY THATS DUMB AS HELL, which went through my head every 5 minutes or less while watching the prequels. It's pretty much just nitpicks. I probably have less nitpicks about TFA than Return of the Jedi, though the highs of Jedi are probably higher than TFA's, which is why I'd still rank it above TFA.
First of all, the lack of the 20th Century Fox jingle was disappointing. There was really nothing inserted there to fill that void
My biggest disappointment with the film is probably the score. Dont get me wrong: John Williams is the GOAT, and this soundtrack is still better than probably 90% of films. But he being the GOAT is exactly why I was disappointed this is probably the only time Ill ever say this, but I think even the prequels had more memorable music than TFA. There were some great usages of music in this film, especially bringing back some classic themes from the OT when certain characters or moments happened on screen, but there is no Imperial March equivalent, no cantina theme (they tried lol), no Duel of Fates. Ive left the film and there isnt really a piece of music that has stuck in my head, and even the god awful prequels managed to accomplish that.
Why didnt the death star (or whatever its called) explode at the end? I was waiting for that shit! It just became a big lava ball and thats was it. Kinda strange choice there.
Phasma was a fairly puzzling character. What was up with her? She kinda did nothing and then she was taken prisoner and forced to lower the shields. And that was that. Gone. Strange. I expected more from her, though the lack of Phasma didnt particularly hurt the film. I hear she will be in episode 8, though. I look forward to that.
I dont think they did a great job of making Kylo Ren intimidating in this film. He started out fine: force choking fools and torturing people with the force. Thats some Vader-esque shit, and thats good: in many ways hes clearly playing the Vader role as the main bad guy of the film. But he becomes less bad ass as the film goes on. His temper tantrums, while funny, hurt his credibility as the main bad guy. Maybe Im just wrongfully going into this expecting all sith lords to act the same, or similar, but Id think someone in his position would have a bit more composure than that. Then, he kinda gets his ass kicked in this movie! A lot! He gets shot multiple times and gets WHOOPED by someone who has, presumably, never held a lightsaber before. Again, we dont know much about Kylo Ren or how long hes been training, but I got the impression at the beginning of the film (when he uses the force to reflect that blaster shot and keep it just levitating on the spot) that he had a pretty damn solid control over the force. So why did he let Chewie shoot him? Or Finn? How did Rey defeat him in a lightsaber duel? Maybe Rey has Skywalker blood, but Ben certainly does! I found that all a little strange, but I get the feeling a lot of this will be addressed in episode 8, so Im not too worried. I just want to get all of this down somewhere
On that note, Snoke wasnt very intimidating either. The imagery between Kylo Ren and Snoke clearly draws a parallel to Vader and the Emperor. They call Snoke the Supreme Leader, right? Id love to see how he got into that position. Hes been doing a pretty poor job of training up sith lords, honestly. Even Palpys goons in the prequels were more impressive than Kylo Ren, and he has Skywalker blood in him! Im half kidding, but my real gripe with Snoke is the fact that hes a CG character. Honestly, Snokes design is not great. Its a tough task to follow the Emperor in the Supreme Leader role, especially in the looks department, but Snoke isnt cutting it for me so far. I do wish they used a real actor for such a seemingly important role.
This might just be me, but there was still too much CG for my liking. I like Star Wars gritty and dirty. Stuff like explosions are fine using CG, and even some shots of environments or space battles (dont overdo it like the prequels, though). Its the CG characters that kill me. While this film had a ton of practical effects and real people in alien costume, the few CG characters in places like the Jakku market or the cantina stood out like a sore thumb. It was almost like the special edition of A New Hope, honestly. Obviously not THAT bad, but they dont belong! I did not like the portrayal of Maz Kanata at all. She was a fairly important character, but the fact that she was CG took me out of the scene. I know its a lot cheaper and easier to just CG a character and mo cap, but look at Jabba from Return of the Jedi. Fucking thing is real, with snot coming out of his nose and drool coming out of his mouth. Its fucking GROSS. You think that feeling still gets across if hes CG? I dont think so. Jabba required SIX puppeteers to make it work, and the final product was fantastic and unforgettable. And that was 1983. Id love to see a major alien character in a modern Star Wars film that was a puppet rather than a mo capped CG character.
All in all, Im still in shock that its 2015 and I can say I just went to the theatre and saw a great, new Star Wars movie. Thank you JJ, you fucking did it. Thank you George Lucas for selling Star Wars so talented people could keep making good Star Wars films. All I want to do right now is go back to the theatre so I can watch and enjoy it again.
First off, I attended the marathon event. I managed to go with my uncle who introduced Star Wars to me as a 4 year old, so that was pretty cool. Got an awesome lanyard and got to experience this film with a great, enthusiastic crowd of diehard fans. Since I valued sleep over the prequels, I decided to sleep instead of torture myself with 6 hours of prequel watching in an uncomfortable theatre chair at 4:45am. So I showed up at 12 noon just in time for A New Hope. This was my first time watching the original trilogy in theatres, and it was an unforgettable experience. Seeing the AT-AT's on the big screen... I got chills!
Speaking to people seated near me, I was that most people who attended the prequels were laughing at the terrible writing, the memes like Vader's NOOOOOOOO, booed at midiclorians... all that good stuff. I think I made the right decision to just sleep instead
Different story with the original trilogy, though. My crowd cheered at every opening crawl. When the death star was destroyed in episode IV. We audibly cringed (eeeeeuuugghhhhhhh) when Leia kissed Luke. We applauded at "IT'S A TRAP!" And yes, we booed the FUCK out of the Hayden ghost at the end of the special edition of Jedi. That was one of the louder reactions of the night, in fact.
All in all, it was an awesome experience and the perfect atmosphere for a new Star Wars film. All the Toronto media outlets were recording us as we entered and exited the theatre between films, interviewed cosplayers and fans... it all felt like a huge deal and added to the excitement and hype. Best of all, if anyone decided not to do the marathon because they were afraid of "burning out" on Star Wars before the new film, all I can say is this: Those 6 hours of the original trilogy felt like 10 minutes. Seriously, it fucking flew by. I barely felt it, and before I knew it that opening crawl for Force Awakens was before us.
And with that, lets get to my thoughts on the new movie itself. First thing's first, here's my rankings of the Star Wars films not including TFA just so you know where my tastes lie:
GOD TIER:
Empire Strikes Back
Star Wars (these are my two favorite films of all time, respectively)
GREAT TIER:
Jedi (somewhere in my top 15 of all time)
SHIT TIER:
Revenge of the Sith
Clones
TPM (Sith is much better than episodes 1 and 2, but all three are abominations that are hopefully forgotten as the years go on and more Star Wars films are made. The Plinkett reviews echo my thoughts almost spot on with these films)
Okay, so Force Awakens. I'm gonna try and break this shit down from start to finish based on what I remember.
WHAT I LIKED:
Pretty much fucking everything. This movie kicked ass. I had low to medium expectations going into the film. The prequels absolutely crushed me. Coming off them, my realistic expectations were as follows: "I hope this movie is much better than the prequels, but I don't expect it to be on the level of the original trilogy, even Jedi. If JJ could do to Star Wars what he did with Star Trek in 2009, I'd be super satisfied."
And he succeeded. After one viewing, I have to say that I feel like the film is at Jedi's level. Maybe a little lower. But it exceeded my expectations! And I didn't expect that at all! I knew going in that it wasn't going to reach the greatness of Star Wars or Empire. And it didn't. And it didn't have to! Those are impossibly high standards imo. So that's totally fine. But I have no problem calling this film a GREAT film, and that is something I had a hard time believing I'd say in 2015 about a Star Wars film.
Starting off, that opening crawl. Oh my god. My theatre popped HUGE when the STAR WARS logo and EPISODE VII came up, as expected. I actually recorded a video of it, which I will treasure forever. An unforgettable moment. Also, the text itself. Straightforward! Explains exactly what has happened, why it's important, and what will have to happen next. Words a child could understand. I'm going to be saying this a lot: Just like the original trilogy, and the POLAR FUCKING OPPOSITE OF THE PREQUELS. So great. Already off to a great start. The crawl alone had me super hyped. Of course Star Wars Episode VII would revolve around a lost Luke Skywalker. Its perfect.
I also want to mention the new cast right off the bat. Daisy Ridley, Oscar Isaac and John Boyega knocked it out of the fucking park. All three of them are oozing charisma, had fantastic delivery, were funny, sounded like real people... watching it back to back with the original trilogy, I had those Luke/Han/Leia feels right away. They all made awesome first impressions and didnt let up for the rest of the film. I look forward to seeing their adventures in future films.
Theres another new cast member that I cant forget: BB-8! I was scared that BB was just going to be an R2-D2 clone but Im happy to say thats not the case. Theres obvious similarities here and there but theres enough differences to make BB feel unique. Hes really damn cute, like a small puppy. That thumbs up with the lighter killed me. Just perfect timing on that one. If theres any toy I feel an urge to purchase after this film, its BB-8.
Kylo Ren is no Darth Vader, in more ways than one. Ill have more to say on this in the What I didnt like section, but for now, I am very happy to say hes not a Vader clone, which would have been the easy way to go with this character (and not even necessarily the wrong way). The idea that there exists a Sith Lord (or whatever theyre calling them now. Bad guy with a red lightsaber is too long) that is fighting temptation to go to the light side is really interesting. I feel like weve only gotten a small taste of Ben Solo in this film, and he will be explored far deeper in episode VIII. Also, they made the cross guard make sense! What seemed so dumb at first is actually smart as fuck! Then, of course, you have his involvement in arguably the biggest and most important scene in the film, but more on that later.
Its important to talk about the original cast. One of the major concerns when the film was first announced was that theyd steal the spotlight from the new kids. Obviously that wasnt the case at all. R2 and C3P0 were barely in the film, but it felt just right. Leia also struck that balance. Obviously Luke was saved specifically for the ending, and while the Luke fanboy in me would have loved to see more of him, he was handled PERFECTLY in this film, and he will surely appear more in the coming episodes.
Han Solo played the Obi Wan role in this film. Harrison Ford was the anchor of this film, like Sir Alec Guinness before him. Like Guinness, he brought that veteran presence that added a TON to the film and only elevated the new cast rather than take away their thunder. While I didnt read any spoilers, Han Solos death in the film was a predictable one: he was originally to die in Return of the Jedi but Lucas didnt want to end the saga with a bittersweet ending, so he was kept alive. Ford got his wish this time around, and it was a great scene. Poor Chewie
On that note, lets talk about the call backs. Like Creed was to Rocky earlier this year, The Force Awakens works not only as a 7th installment of the franchise, not only as a sequel that takes place chronologically after episode 6 in the franchise and includes actors and characters from said film, but also acts as a modern reboot of the franchise AND is a spiritual retelling of the first film. It worked extremely well for Creed, and it works extremely well here. Just as the story of Rocky is timeless and can be retold as the years go on, so too can the story of Star Wars: A New Hope. As I mentioned before, the veteran Han Solo plays the Obi Wan role from A New Hope. He gets the new blood into the death star and is slain by the blade of the films main villain, someone very close to him, as the new blood looks on from a distance. You have your cantina scene with weird yet appropriate jazz music in the background. The basement of the cantina brings fearful visions to Rey that are reminiscent of the cave on Dagobah that Luke enters. You have your Going somewhere, Solo? scene where Han tries to get out of swindling some alien busters. Kylo Rens distorted voice and dress is reminiscent of Vaders. Our protagonist is going nowhere on a desert planet until extraordinary events take place, forcing her to leave and realize the larger universe. I can go on and on and on here. The point is: after the prequels shit all over the legacy of Star Wars and deviated so heavily from the greatness of those original three films, this is exactly what the doctor ordered. A spiritual retelling of A New Hope is not only what this fanbase so desperately needed, but is also a fantastic way to introduce this world to a new generation of children. While there were many call backs, it never felt like a lame rip off of the original film. For every call back, there was also unique, new twist. I love how it was Rey going all stealth mode in the death star, calling back to Obi Wan in A New Hope. They could have easily given that role to Han, but decided to mix it up. Similarly, the jedi mind trick scene brought to mind the scenes from the original trilogy, but rather than give a sense of wonder (Obi-Wan in ANH) or mystique (Luke in ROTJ) like those films, The Force Awakens provides a laugh out loud moment, and it was perfect.
This film absolutely nailed its humor. Lawrence Kasdan is back and my GOD does it show. This thing had original trilogy writing and humor all over it. I laughed out loud multiple times, just like I did with the original trilogy. Such a fucking far cry from the shitty baby fart joke "humor" of the prequels. Some of my favourite humor, something that they didnt really explore at all in the original trilogy, involved the villains. The last thing I expected was Kylo Ren to be involved in with some of the funnier scenes in the film. From the face to face confrontation with Poe (Ok, who talks first?) to him raging like a mother fucker on those computers when he heard that Finn was alive and escaped, to him destroying that door and the storm troopers PEACING THE FUCK OUT to the jedi mind trick scene so many laughs were had. The list goes on, too. These are real characters with real emotions. Like the original trilogy. They talk like real people, they celebrate like real people. They joke and use sarcasm like real people. They use the force.
Practical effects. They were back and they were spectacular. I had a huge smile on my face as Rey walked around that marketplace and later when they went into that cantina. So many real things, as opposed to fake, ugly CG shit. This world is absolutely lived in. It's not a green screen video game world, that's for sure.
Art direction is top tier, as youd expect from a Star Wars film. The new stormtrooper designs, BB-8, the lightsaber battle in the snowy woods the list goes on. Its a gorgeous film from top to bottom. The cinematography was top notch as well. The shot of Rey speeding by the downed Star Destroyer, her chilling by the downed AT-AT, and of course the final shot while its too early to say for sure, I saw stuff in this film that I think will become iconic scenes in Star Wars history. There were more memorable shots in this film then all three prequels combined.
The lightsaber fights were great. Gone is the heavily choreographed flippy perfect emotionless bullshit of the prequels and back from the OT is the raw, gritty battles between two people trying to kill each other with laser swords. Loved it. Again, JJ knew just what to deliver on after the prequels to reassure fans that things will be better from now on, and I really do hope it continues.
My crowd cheered at many points during the film, but two scenes stand out. First was Rey using the force to grab the lightsaber during the final battle. Just fantastic stuff. What a moment. THIS IS STAR WARS. Next, as youd expect, was the reveal of Luke. That one gave me the goosebumps, as Luke was always my favourite character in Star Wars. I can say with complete confidence that the final shot in The Force Awakens is the finest final shot of all Star Wars movies. Perfection.
WHAT I DIDN'T LIKE:
Very little. Nothing about this movie had me thinking OKAY THATS DUMB AS HELL, which went through my head every 5 minutes or less while watching the prequels. It's pretty much just nitpicks. I probably have less nitpicks about TFA than Return of the Jedi, though the highs of Jedi are probably higher than TFA's, which is why I'd still rank it above TFA.
First of all, the lack of the 20th Century Fox jingle was disappointing. There was really nothing inserted there to fill that void
My biggest disappointment with the film is probably the score. Dont get me wrong: John Williams is the GOAT, and this soundtrack is still better than probably 90% of films. But he being the GOAT is exactly why I was disappointed this is probably the only time Ill ever say this, but I think even the prequels had more memorable music than TFA. There were some great usages of music in this film, especially bringing back some classic themes from the OT when certain characters or moments happened on screen, but there is no Imperial March equivalent, no cantina theme (they tried lol), no Duel of Fates. Ive left the film and there isnt really a piece of music that has stuck in my head, and even the god awful prequels managed to accomplish that.
Why didnt the death star (or whatever its called) explode at the end? I was waiting for that shit! It just became a big lava ball and thats was it. Kinda strange choice there.
Phasma was a fairly puzzling character. What was up with her? She kinda did nothing and then she was taken prisoner and forced to lower the shields. And that was that. Gone. Strange. I expected more from her, though the lack of Phasma didnt particularly hurt the film. I hear she will be in episode 8, though. I look forward to that.
I dont think they did a great job of making Kylo Ren intimidating in this film. He started out fine: force choking fools and torturing people with the force. Thats some Vader-esque shit, and thats good: in many ways hes clearly playing the Vader role as the main bad guy of the film. But he becomes less bad ass as the film goes on. His temper tantrums, while funny, hurt his credibility as the main bad guy. Maybe Im just wrongfully going into this expecting all sith lords to act the same, or similar, but Id think someone in his position would have a bit more composure than that. Then, he kinda gets his ass kicked in this movie! A lot! He gets shot multiple times and gets WHOOPED by someone who has, presumably, never held a lightsaber before. Again, we dont know much about Kylo Ren or how long hes been training, but I got the impression at the beginning of the film (when he uses the force to reflect that blaster shot and keep it just levitating on the spot) that he had a pretty damn solid control over the force. So why did he let Chewie shoot him? Or Finn? How did Rey defeat him in a lightsaber duel? Maybe Rey has Skywalker blood, but Ben certainly does! I found that all a little strange, but I get the feeling a lot of this will be addressed in episode 8, so Im not too worried. I just want to get all of this down somewhere
On that note, Snoke wasnt very intimidating either. The imagery between Kylo Ren and Snoke clearly draws a parallel to Vader and the Emperor. They call Snoke the Supreme Leader, right? Id love to see how he got into that position. Hes been doing a pretty poor job of training up sith lords, honestly. Even Palpys goons in the prequels were more impressive than Kylo Ren, and he has Skywalker blood in him! Im half kidding, but my real gripe with Snoke is the fact that hes a CG character. Honestly, Snokes design is not great. Its a tough task to follow the Emperor in the Supreme Leader role, especially in the looks department, but Snoke isnt cutting it for me so far. I do wish they used a real actor for such a seemingly important role.
This might just be me, but there was still too much CG for my liking. I like Star Wars gritty and dirty. Stuff like explosions are fine using CG, and even some shots of environments or space battles (dont overdo it like the prequels, though). Its the CG characters that kill me. While this film had a ton of practical effects and real people in alien costume, the few CG characters in places like the Jakku market or the cantina stood out like a sore thumb. It was almost like the special edition of A New Hope, honestly. Obviously not THAT bad, but they dont belong! I did not like the portrayal of Maz Kanata at all. She was a fairly important character, but the fact that she was CG took me out of the scene. I know its a lot cheaper and easier to just CG a character and mo cap, but look at Jabba from Return of the Jedi. Fucking thing is real, with snot coming out of his nose and drool coming out of his mouth. Its fucking GROSS. You think that feeling still gets across if hes CG? I dont think so. Jabba required SIX puppeteers to make it work, and the final product was fantastic and unforgettable. And that was 1983. Id love to see a major alien character in a modern Star Wars film that was a puppet rather than a mo capped CG character.
All in all, Im still in shock that its 2015 and I can say I just went to the theatre and saw a great, new Star Wars movie. Thank you JJ, you fucking did it. Thank you George Lucas for selling Star Wars so talented people could keep making good Star Wars films. All I want to do right now is go back to the theatre so I can watch and enjoy it again.
Sanctuary
Member
I don't get all of the Rey love at all, as far as her being a well written character at least. She's basically just Luke from ANH redux, and while I'd agree that she had enough charisma, and the actor did a good job with what she was given...she really didn't do much at all in the movie overall besides twenty minutes or so at the start and ten minutes at the end. She's obviously written to be the "hero" of the current trilogy, but beyond that she didn't really do anything that made her stand out.
longdi
Banned
Ya I think Kylo will be full on mad evil. They pretty much hint it at various points, him talking with his grandpa helmet, snoke asking him to kill Hans, Leia hoping Hans can turn him back, gets disfigured by Rey, and snoke mentioning starting his next phase of training.
TFA beat down Lucas PQ attempt but what I liked most is JJ doing a much better job in showing Kylo slow turn to a badass than lame Anakin.
The only thing I'm disappointed in is that the crossguard lightsaber served almost no practical purpose apart from burning Finn's shoulder. It was never used for its intended purpose (to catch another blade sliding town the sword) and was much like Kylo's mask - an unnecessary gimmick used for intimidation.
Although, given his character, that kind of makes sense.
Although, given his character, that kind of makes sense.
There's a huge difference between the pure good vs. evil world of something like Lord of the Rings and then a franchise like Star Wars with gray areas and back and forth conflicting emotions. This is not the overly simplistic series you want. The events of VII are in the books. They're official and canon. Accept it or just deal with this new trilogy not being for you because you want it to be something else.
The prophecy was bringing balance to the force, there is no balance without light and dark
brandonh83
Banned
BTW 3PO's intro shot was fantastic.
Palette Swap
Member
Yeah, not everyone has to be related.
At best, I can see her having been part of Luke's Jedi community when she was a child, but was left stranded on Jakku when the shit hit the fan and someone somehow got her out.
But I wouldn't mind that she's just this force sensitive semi-orphan who grew up in a remote shithole.
The only time Star Wars hasn't been about good vs. evil was in KotOR 2.
Enter the Dragon Punch
Banned
Except, when it's turned on, it's ALWAYS being used for its intended purpose. It's meant to vent unstable energy, since the saber was built by him. That's the same reason the blade seems edgier, jaggier than a regular blade.
Ennosuke
Member
I am sort of okay with him being the big unknown. But I am honestly afraid that he is some stupid palpaltine copy. I mean look how often they used copy and paste in TFA. But they should stop this right away and bring new interesting stuff. I want snoke to be interesting. Otherwise the new triology is like a bad fanfiction.
bananafactory
Banned
Hasn't it been known for a while it's just exhaust ports and not a crossguard?
I'm curious if that was in the script or Adam Driver added it. It was a great touch and I could see Driver exploring that from an acting perspective.
LeMaximilian
Alligator F*ck House
I think we can all agree. Snoke and almost everything about him story/design wish is probably the worst part. I'm still so confused why he got so much screen time. Looks like a wendigo and is less interesting/less mysterious than the Emperor.
Had a joke going that Snoke represented Disney producers, demanding people to bring them things and get shit done.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Yes, an old design.
Oh and the new music was bad and forgettable
Yeah, this was another thing that was downright awful.
I was really surprised how on point the comedic lines in this were. They did a great job providing Finn with some great moments of (very natural) comic relief and Boyega really sold them, made him a way more endearing character than I was expecting. Really hoping eps 8 and 9 can keep that wit in play as well as this one did.
He and Rey (and he and Poe) had a really nice rapport, which is a huge step forward for this trilogy after the stilted, rickety foundation the prequel actors' interactions suffered from.
He and Rey (and he and Poe) had a really nice rapport, which is a huge step forward for this trilogy after the stilted, rickety foundation the prequel actors' interactions suffered from.
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