Support NeoGAF

[rekameohs]

BTW 3PO's intro shot was fantastic.

Oh yeah, definitely. Perfect way to bring him back.

 

[meanspartan]

So do you guys think Finn will be trained as a jedi too?

He was pretty capable with the lightsaber....held his own against Kylo for a while.

 

[Herbs]

Rey will most definitely be connected to someone from the old movies. The blatant foreshadowing wouldn't make sense if she wasn't.

And Vader wasn't a nonsense word, dammit. It means 'Father' in Dutch, which is why the Empire Strikes Back twist was ruined for Dutch people even before George Lucas actually wrote it.

definitely with the way Han seemed to know her.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

R2 was waiting to see if the movie was better than the prequels before he would get involved.

*dead*

So do you guys think Finn will be trained as a jedi too?

He was pretty capable with the lightsaber....held his own against Kylo for a while.

I don't, no. I think he's going to fill the Han role in terms of purpose. Always around, always trying to be helpful and doing the best he can. Saving the day (and Rey) a few more times along the way.

 

[Schadenfreude]

Captain Phasma nooooo! I really hope she has a bigger role later in the trilogy. Fell in love with her design and I love Gwendoline Christie. I was so disappointed to see that she was played the fool. It really could have been any random old trooper that disabled the shields for Han and Finn so really she wasnt even needed. Please dont give us another Boba Fett. I want more than just a cool design. I want a force to be reckoned with. As for the rest of the movie, I thought it was pretty great. Really revisited a lot of old ground but it had enough new elements that I didnt feel like I was watching a remake of ANH. Really enjoyed the Kylo Ren struggle plot thread and now that he's killed his dad I really dont think there's any going back for him. Calling it now, Kylo Ren will remain the big baddie of the rest of the trilogy. As for Finn, I really looking forward to his character arc. While Rey is off fighting Ren and giant hologram aliens, Finn will have to deal with the First Order and everything they represent. It's perfect! Both Finn and Rey will have equally important roles instead of being set up only to be cast aside like Leia. And hey, maybe thats where Phasma will come in. She's the perfect person to stand as the foe that Finn must overcome. Getting giddy just thinking about it. Next movie cant come quick enough. Gimme more!

 

[karma2578]

I think Phasma will be Finn's story arc

 

[foxtrot3d]

I thought it was an enjoyable movie, but not a particularly great one. I feel like it was far clunkier than some of Abrams' past efforts and Kasdan seemed to have an uneven touch.

Generally, the plot is okay. I like the ideas in it, even if they were well-worn. Creed showed that you can repeat story structures and still make an effective, moving film.

But the execution is really off in places. I feel like I can nail it down to several factors:

1) Characters: In general, I liked most of them. Finn was fun, Kylo was interesting, etc. But I think the character backgrounds were revealed at strange times or in too perfunctory of a manner. Revealing Kylo's heritage when they did and removing the mask when they did just felt like they were miscues that would have been better timed elsewhere. Other aspects like Han and Leia's interactions felt good, but were marred by strange dialogue (like the constant referencing of "Snoke" by his name, when the Emperor was never referred to in that way). Other newly introduced characters like Maz and Phasma felt completely pointless (largely because they were intended to be utilized differently).

And there is a slight issue with Rey. It feels like we're being withheld vital information about her character (because she's clearly hiding a secret), and that kept me from truly connecting with her. I think that was a bad move.

2) Direction: Other things, like JJ's direction and cinematography drove me nuts. Oftentimes, you're thrown into settings without even a simple establishing shot to geographically set this location up. Sometimes we're being thrown into battles, without even understanding the physical distance between people firing at each other or what the current stakes are. It generally makes the laser shooting and aerial combat sort of boring. I'd argue the only two effective action scenes in the movie are the Falcon chase and the lightsaber fight at the end.

(Also on the cinematography note, JJ's constant use of close-ups made some scenes and locations made the movie look cheap in some places and felt like a waste of the real-world locations they filmed at.)

3) There are issues from a conceptual standpoint (without going into the obvious stuff, like the Starkiller). I think the whole "Luke is missing" angle just didn't work. There is no urgency to it, because (a) the characters seem sidetracked by other things and (b) we don't understand why Luke is needed right now, after disappearing for what's assumed to be ten years.

And, honestly, they blew it in terms of the lack of exposition. I appreciate leaving some things vague to the audience and allowing them to fill in the gaps, but there was nothing to chew on or even speculate on when it comes to filling in said gaps. We know about as much about Snoke, the First Order, the Knights of Ren, the Resistance, the Republic leaving the movie as we do entering it. That isn't effective world-building; it's declining to world-build. Maybe the prequels went too far with exposition, but explaining the basic structure of the universe in a seven film series isn't asking too much.

4) Editing: This movie is missing a good 20 minutes and it shows. Characters come and go without you even getting a chance to say goodbye (Maz, Phasma). We could to places and people talking sometimes without even setting that place up (I'm thinking of the first reveal of Starkiller Base in particular). Other moments have no chance to breathe (like Maz's scenes), but others go on awkwardly long (like Rey and Kylo's interrogation scene, where it's just boring shots of people grimmacing at each other for a minute).

5) John Williams: He didn't put in his greatest work. There was a real lack of memorable motifs and that severely hurt this movie's emotional beats and intended "fuck yeah" moments.

I agree 100% with this, it echoes my initial post.

 

[bananafactory]

I will say I fucking hate how Han went out. I mean I don't hate it like I think it was poorly done, it just cuts me to my very core. It was so COLD. Just cut down by his son with no one beside him and falls away to his death.

I hope there's a memorial or some acknowledgement for him in future because the guy was a fucking legend.

 

[watershed]

Yeah Snoke is a really uninteresting design, plus his cg was pretty bad, hologram and all.

 

[TheKaeptain]

So do you guys think Finn will be trained as a jedi too?

He was pretty capable with the lightsaber....held his own against Kylo for a while.

I think Finn will be like Leia. He can feel the force but not use it.

 

[Chamber]

Yeah, not everyone has to be related.
At best, I can see her having been part of Luke's Jedi community when she was a child, but was left stranded on Jakku when the shit hit the fan and someone somehow got her out.

But I wouldn't mind that she's just this force sensitive semi-orphan who grew up in a remote shithole.

Rey has more raw power in the Force than Kylo Ren who is a direct descendant of Anakin Skywalker. I honestly don't think there's a chance in hell she isn't Luke's daughter.

 

[Sanctuary]

The only thing I'm disappointed in is that the crossguard lightsaber served almost no practical purpose apart from burning Finn's shoulder. It was never used for its intended purpose (to catch another blade sliding town the sword) and was much like Kylo's mask - an unnecessary gimmick used for intimidation.

Although, given his character, that kind of makes sense.

Lightsabers don't slide when they cross each other, they stick. So the "guard" was not intended to catch one. People were already agruing that it would be used to either punch with, or when sabers were locked as an extra close up blade (which is what it was used for in this movie).

 

[SomedayTheFire]

Captain Phasma nooooo! I really hope she has a bigger role later in the trilogy. Fell in love with her design and I love Gwendoline Christie. I was so disappointed to see that she was played the fool. It really could have been any random old trooper that disabled the shields for Han and Finn so really she wasnt even needed. Please dont give us another Boba Fett. I want more than just a cool design. I want a force to be reckoned with. As for the rest of the movie, I thought it was pretty great. Really revisited a lot of old ground but it had enough new elements that I didnt feel like I was watching a remake of ANH. Really enjoyed the Kylo Ren struggle plot thread and now that he's killed his dad I really dont think there's any going back for him. Calling it now, Kylo Ren will remain the big baddie of the rest of the trilogy. As for Finn, I really looking forward to his character arc. While Rey is off fighting Ren and giant hologram aliens, Finn will have to deal with the First Order and everything they represent. It's perfect! Both Finn and Rey will have equally important roles instead of being set up only to be cast aside like Leia. And hey, maybe thats where Phasma will come in. She's the perfect person to stand as the foe that Finn must overcome. Getting giddy just thinking about it. Next movie cant come quick enough. Gimme more!

I thought the point that Finn couldn't disable the Shields meant it couldn't be any old stormtrooper? I do hope she's in the trilogy more, love her design.

 

[FeD.nL]

Yeah, this was another thing that was downright awful.

Pretty forgettable indeed. The music diring the X-wing reveal at maz's castle ws for me the biggest letdown.

No duel of the fates or Battle of the Heroes in this film sadly.

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah, not everyone has to be related.
At best, I can see her having been part of Luke's Jedi community when she was a child, but was left stranded on Jakku when the shit hit the fan and someone somehow got her out.

You know before the movie I had her pegged as Luke's daughter, but now that it ended without clarification, I'm not so sure. I feel like if she were that it'd have been revealed in this movie and I'm not sure making it a huge thing in the next one is the best idea as people would complain about the middle movie having an "I am your father" moment. So yeah, interesting.

 

[a916]

That payoff or death of Han was so lame... you couldn't telegraph it any more clearer.

I can't believe I'm nit picking though, as a whole this movie was great, though it had flaws like any movie.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I think Phasma will be Finn's story arc

Agree. I think all the major characters that got little attention here will have that rectified in a big way going forward.

 

[Mushroomer25]

Follow me here, but I think they dropped the ball pretty hard with a great moment.

Kylo Removing His Mask Beef

Kylo takes of his mask during the Rey force mind fight for the first time. Most likely because they need to convey emotion as they're blasting bass at eachother and you can't see it.

However, I wish he kept the mask on for that scene, made it a little shorter and kept the face reveal of Kylo when he confronts Han as his son. At that time, Han sees his son for the first time in a long ass time, and the audience sees Kylo just as a kid...instead of a robot/deformed monster. The impact would have been waaaay more profound.

I get your point, but you also have to imagine that force mind fight (which is effectively just alternating shots of two people staring menacingly at each other) - when one of them is wearing a full face mask with zero visibility.

 

[Skux]

Hasn't it been known for a while it's just exhaust ports and not a crossguard?

Not by anyone who doesn't keep up with the minutiae of the Star Wars lore.

For any laymen watching, it looks like a saber blade, and so we expect it to act like it. If it's for excess energy, it should have looked like something different.

 

[Saya]

Stormtrooper guy taking on Finn at Maz's place was an absolute badass. "Traitor!" Finn got lucky there.

 

[TheKaeptain]

Guys, the light saber called out to Rey. She's a Skywalker.

 

[Discotheque]

I really dug Kylo's fight choreography. Never felt like a dance. Felt like a dude trying to murder with every swing

yeah, he wielded it like a real sword with some weight to it.

 

[LeMaximilian]

I get your point, but you also have to imagine that force mind fight (which is effectively just alternating shots of two people staring menacingly at each other) - when one of them is wearing a full face mask with zero visibility.

Well, that is exactly what I said. But the scene should have been way shorter. We really didn't need what felt like two minutes of them glaring at eachother menacingly.

 

[Not]

Poor Chewie indeed :'(

 

[Yoshichan]

Also, C3POs red arm reminded me of Snake in MGSV

 

[Skux]

I get your point, but you also have to imagine that force mind fight (which is effectively just alternating shots of two people staring menacingly at each other) - when one of them is wearing a full face mask with zero visibility.

Yeah you definitely need them unmasked, or else you get the unfortunate effect of what looks like two puppets talking to each other. Spider-Man 1 is my favourite example of this:

 

[longdi]

Was the one flying the tie fighter during the Rey falcon chase also phasma? I swear I saw the storm trooper armor as chrome colored.

 

[Cappa]

Couldn't stand Kylo Ren's actor/voice,

I think they purposely went out of their way so people felt this way. A villain that you can't stand or hate is a good villain.

 

[half a moon]

Was the one flying the tie fighter during the Rey falcon chase also phasma? I swear I saw the storm trooper armor as chrome colored.

I wondered that too then it looked like they crashed and blew up

 

[A Serious Man]

Welp, JJ did what he needed to do. He reconnected the broader audience back to Star Wars and set us up for what's to come. The future looks bright for the first time in a long time. I don't have the energy to list off every thought I had about the movie so I'll just name the biggest surprise and complaint I had.

+ Rey and Kylo have GOAT character potential, really really enjoyed both of them. Daisy Ridley's energy is infectious and Kylo is the first compelling villain I've seen in a blockbuster in I don't know how long. I can't wait to see the journey these two take and I'm glad it's the primary thrust of the series now.

- The hunt for Luke was the most interesting thread in the film and it was reduced to "We forgot to turn R2-D2 on" by the end. It really felt like the writers said "Okay, we've reached the end of the film, you get to see Luke now". Piecing together the map didn't feel earned or satisfying at all.

 

[Tookay]

I agree 100% with this, it echoes my initial post.

Thanks. I thought we had similar opinions on this.

 

[Herbs]

Not by anyone who doesn't keep up with the minutiae of the Star Wars lore.

For any laymen watching, it looks like a saber blade, and so we expect it to act like it. If it's for excess energy, it should have looked like something different.

the laymen don't give a shit.

 

[a916]

Loved Kylo... he was so much deeper than any villain in the SW movies. You are either really good, or really bad (unless your name is Vader, though he was good then bad, never going back between the two). He was struggling but the struggling during Han's death was really terribly done. Also, his voice, I'm not sure what happened but when his mask came off, he had two different voices.

One that sounded like the same voice in the mask without the reverb, and then a higher pitched "boy" voice... really bothered me.

Also was getting tinges of Marvel/Disney villainy... but very small.

 

[Mattdaddy]

R2 was waiting to see if the movie was better than the prequels before he would get involved.

LOL!!!


But I think Rey has gotta be the next Skywalker. I'd say between that early trailer that had Luke's voiceover with the "my father had it, I have it, you have that power too." And the alien lady saying the lightsaber belonged to Vader, then Luke, now it calls to you. Then you've got the look on Luke's face at the end. I'd be absolutely shocked if she's not his daughter.

 

[Not]

Guys, the light saber called out to Rey. She's a Skywalker.

I hope she has some connection to Luke that's not through parentage. Like many others have said, maybe she was part of his first Jedi kid group

 

[Discotheque]

Thanks. I thought we had similar opinions on this.

yeah your review pretty much nailed it on the head for me. down to the music comments as well.

 

[brandonh83]

That payoff or death of Han was so lame... you couldn't telegraph it any more clearer.

It was being alluded to before, like when Leia asks him to bring him back and he had this look on his face that clearly spelled tragedy ahead. So I think they were clearly trying to work people up to it rather than making it shocking. I actually kind of appreciated that the big moments were handled like they were, like how him being Han's son was just casually brought up in a conversation instead of playing it out like a massive twist which they easily could've did. Same for his death I feel, they relied on the story more than shock value.

 

[Thoraxes]

Why didn’t the death star (or whatever it’s called) explode at the end? I was waiting for that shit! It just became a big lava ball… and that’s was it. Kinda strange choice there.

Because they destroyed the thing that helped keep the siphoned star in reserve to use as a weapon. Without that energy being able to be contained, it ultimately swallowed up all that was left. The star just returned to its natural, volatile state.

 

[v0yce]

You liked it but you're hung up on a simple plot detail that's totally conceivable in the SW universe? Abrams had terrorists in Star Trek and now alludes to child soldiers here. If you truly can't reconcile with the new direction and adding a touch of real-life humanity into these sci fi flicks, then no, I don't think they're for you.

And this was my original assessment which I and a few others hardly think is so stupid:



But hey whatever, let's have your bland Finn ideas shitting up the trilogy to drive everyone away from sheer boredom and predictability. Let's also have the next film dwell on the ramifications on child soldiers and kidnapped babies to really fill those theater seats.

You're really all over the place. I'm not hung up on it. It was a such a minor mention it makes me wonder why they would even put it in there.

And obviously if I thought it was out of place here I wouldn't want the next film to dwell on it. In you're attempts to insult or whatever, your just starting to ramble.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I thought the point that Finn couldn't disable the Shields meant it couldn't be any old stormtrooper? I do hope she's in the trilogy more, love her design.

I meant that the writers didnt have to create an elaborate character with a name and different costume and a big actress just for that purpose. Literally could have been "Slightly More Adorned Trooper #1". Which is, I guess, what Phasma was.

 

[Xamdou]

Seems to me Rey is Luke's daughter, I mean she can do it all. She is an awesome mechanic, pilot and an even more gifted in the ways of the force than Ani and Luke at least initially.

In terms of force powers she used during film:

1. Reject some of Kylo's mind reading and was able to read his fear of not being as powerful as vader.

2. Use jedi mind trick on that one Stormtrooper after three tries.

3. She was obviously less skilled in lightsaber combat compared to Kylo but after using a very fast "Battle Meditation" it seemed to me like she downloaded all Kylo's previous moves and straight up destroyed him.

4. She can use the force to see the future after grabbing Luke's lightsaber.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Do you guys think they named Ben in honor of Obi Wan? Or is that something already known from some cannon stuff between episodes 6 and 7?

I feel like the answer is obviously yes but i figured I should ask.

 

[JumPeRJumPzZ]

Seems to me Rey is Luke's daughter, I mean she can do it all. She is an awesome mechanic, pilot and an even more gifted in the ways of the force than Ani and Luke at least initially.

In terms of force powers she used during film:

1. Reject some of Kylo's mind reading and was able to read his fear of not being as powerful as vader.

2. Use jedi mind trick on that one Stormtrooper after three tries.

3. She was obviously less skilled in lightsaber combat compared to Kylo but after using a very fast "Battle Meditation" it seemed to me like she downloaded all Kylo's previous moves and straight up destroyed him.

4. She can use the force to see the future after grabbing Luke's lightsaber.

That Jedi mind trick scene was awesome.

 

[Not]

The hunt for Luke was the most interesting thread in the film and it was reduced to "We forgot to turn R2-D2 on" by the end. It really felt like the writers said "Okay, we've reached the end of the film, you get to see Luke now". Piecing together the map didn't feel earned or satisfying at all.

The rebels already knew they had R2-D2, they needed Max von Sydow's info, and then BB-8.

Han was the one who pointed out BB-8's map was unfinished, not the rebels resistance. All they needed to do was reunite the droids, but they could only do it after blowin' up Starkiller Base cause it was about to fire a sun at them.

 

[longdi]

I think we can all agree. Snoke and almost everything about him story/design wish is probably the worst part. I'm still so confused why he got so much screen time. Looks like a wendigo and is less interesting/less mysterious than the Emperor.

Had a joke going that Snoke represented Disney producers, demanding people to bring them things and get shit done.

Nope the worst part is the starbase killer plot. Extremely boring as it was easily attacked and destroyed. How does remnants of the empire make something even more badass than went sidous was around is what i would call a completely lazy nostalgia grab

 

[Sanctuary]

I think they purposely went out of their way so people felt this way. A villain that you can't stand or hate is a good villain.

And can't understand, ala Bane.

Seems to me Rey is Luke's daughter, I mean she can do it all. She is an awesome mechanic, pilot and an even more gifted in the ways of the force than Ani and Luke at least initially.

In terms of force powers she used during film:

1. Reject some of Kylo's mind reading and was able to read his fear of not being as powerful as vader.

2. Use jedi mind trick on that one Stormtrooper after three tries.

3. She was obviously less skilled in lightsaber combat compared to Kylo but after using a very fast "Battle Meditation" it seemed to me like she downloaded all Kylo's previous moves and straight up destroyed him.

4. She can use the force to see the future after grabbing Luke's lightsaber.

The way lightsabers were handled in this movie in general were really underwhelming. Some random stormtrooper picks one up and has no problem swinging it around like he actually had some training with it. In the case of Rey though it at least makes some sense. We already know that she's pretty decent with a staff like weapon. Maybe Fin was also trained with melee weapons, but they never establish this. He did end up fighting another stormtrooper that was using some kind of enegery melee weapon, so it can be assumed that most of them would have the basics, but it still seemed really odd. The trailers also made it look like he was one of the new jedi.

 

[Thoraxes]

Seems to me Rey is Luke's daughter, I mean she can do it all. She is an awesome mechanic, pilot and an even more gifted in the ways of the force than Ani and Luke at least initially.

In terms of force powers she used during film:

1. Reject some of Kylo's mind reading and was able to read his fear of not being as powerful as vader.

2. Use jedi mind trick on that one Stormtrooper after three tries.

3. She was obviously less skilled in lightsaber combat compared to Kylo but after using a very fast "Battle Meditation" it seemed to me like she downloaded all Kylo's previous moves and straight up destroyed him.

4. She can use the force to see the future after grabbing Luke's lightsaber.

It was also really neat seeing her try to adapt to using a one-sided/bladed weapon on the fly like that. It really showed in the fight choreography that she was more used to her bō-like weapon, and had to adapt. I thought it was really well-telegraphed in her fight sequence.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I'm going to bet Ben was the star student at the academy then Rey started getting more powerful and he just couldn't take being shown up by his younger cousin that is also a girl. It would make the whole being like Vader obsession even deeper and crazier because he thinks he deserves it because he's a man.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

That Jedi mind trick scene was awesome.

one of the best scenes in the film, easily.

 

[Skux]

It was being alluded to before, like when Leia asks him to bring him back and he had this look on his face that clearly spelled tragedy ahead.

Exactly. They chose the "heavy foreshadowing" route rather than the "shock" route, which is a completely different experience, and viewers often disregard it by saying "it sucked because I saw it coming a mile away" without understanding it.

There's nothing more intense and dreadful than knowing something bad is going to happen, and also knowing that nothing can be done about it. As soon as Han stepped onto that incredibly dramatic-looking bridge, my stomach lurched and I knew he was a goner... and had to sit with that for so long until the blow finally came.