[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.

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Just came back from the movie, really liked it. Lot of similarities with a New Hope but I had fun. Characters were great in general. Han dying sucked though :( And Phasma was the biggest disappointment. Did absolutely nothing the entire movie. I guess she will be back for the next movie and I hope they do something cool with her.

How will she be back? As far as we know they threw in the trash compactor and the planet blew up.
 
It's really starting to depress me now how many people don't understand Kylo Ren. Should they have gone with another "Hey I'm the bad guy" villain instead of a nuanced character?
 
Self-taught?

Yoda?

Obi-wan?

What?

He had like an afternoon's worth of training from Obi-Wan and a year with Yoda where he learned how to lift stuff and do flips while running in the swamps.

I'm exaggerating a bit but he has very, very little training by the time ROTJ happens. Compared with the fact that the Jedi before Order 66 were trained since children and didn't typically become "Masters" until they were Adults.

Luke wasn't a real Jedi Master. He was just the only Jedi in existence, which makes him a Master by default. In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.
 
I thought the movie was really great - pacing was breakneck and had no dull moments, I really cared about the characters, above average acting (especially Rey, Kylo, and Han), and I loved the fact that we're seeing the villain's growth/flaws along with the hero's.

Some aspects of the pacing were breakneck. But they had numerous scenes that were slow burn shots. Like the one where Rey is drawn to Luke's lightsaber. She lurks down the halls for a good while. We got a number of those shots in the first half of the movie.
 
The more people try to defend Rey's absurd proficiency with the Force and lighsabers as not being too far fetched and within the scope of her abilities for whatever reason, the more I actually dislike those aspects of the film and her character.

Kylo Ren is a powerful Force user who has been training at it and swordsmanship presumably for most of his life. It makes no sense whatsoever that Rey got the better of him during the interrogation exchange. I would have understood and actually liked it if she got a shot in after he extracted what he wanted and that startled him. For her to actually turn it all on him though, I don't think that should have happened. It made Kylo Ren look like a joke and sucked tension out of his subsequent scenes because he was prematurely neutered.

The sword fight at the end you could mitigate to some extent because he was shot and in pain and that clearly affected his stamina, but those should have been the reasons he lost instead of Rey pausing the game, taping into the Force just because he mentioned she needed to be taught how to use it and then suddenly whooping his ass. What that scene needed was an Empire inspired Vader VS Luke but with Ren being significantly more hurt by the end of it but strong enough to end in a tactical retreat either by Rey and Finn or by him after Chewbacca showed up in the Falcon or because, you know, the whole base was blowing up.

Ding ding ding. It felt like fanfiction in regards to her.
 
The more people try to defend Rey's absurd proficiency with the Force and lighsabers as not being too far fetched and within the scope of her abilities for whatever reason, the more I actually dislike those aspects of the film and her character.

Kylo Ren is a powerful Force user who has been training at it and swordsmanship presumably for most of his life. It makes no sense whatsoever that Rey got the better of him during the interrogation exchange. I would have understood and actually liked it if she got a shot in after he extracted what he wanted and that startled him. For her to actually turn it all on him though, I don't think that should have happened. It made Kylo Ren look like a joke and sucked tension out of his subsequent scenes because he was prematurely neutered.

The sword fight at the end you could mitigate to some extent because he was shot and in pain and that clearly affected his stamina, but those should have been the reasons he lost instead of Rey pausing the game, taping into the Force just because he mentioned she needed to be taught how to use it and then suddenly whooping his ass. What that scene needed was an Empire inspired Vader VS Luke but with Ren being significantly more hurt by the end of it but strong enough to end in a tactical retreat either by Rey and Finn or by him after Chewbacca showed up in the Falcon or because, you know, the whole base was blowing up.

Maybe Kylo's inability to go full dark or full light gimps his force power? Maybe the concept of "Gray Jedi" is BS in the new canon and you ain't shit without a clear alignment

OR We might get the equivalent of Kingdom Hearts Riku, who struggles between Light and Dark and gets little power from it, but he then makes his own "Twilight" philosophy and starts wrecking shit without going full dark nor embracing the light
 
The more people try to defend Rey's absurd proficiency with the Force and lighsabers as not being too far fetched and within the scope of her abilities for whatever reason, the more I actually dislike those aspects of the film and her character.

Kylo Ren is a powerful Force user who has been training at it and swordsmanship presumably for most of his life. It makes no sense whatsoever that Rey got the better of him during the interrogation exchange. I would have understood and actually liked it if she got a shot in after he extracted what he wanted and that startled him. For her to actually turn it all on him though, I don't think that should have happened. It made Kylo Ren look like a joke and sucked tension out of his subsequent scenes because he was prematurely neutered.

The sword fight at the end you could mitigate to some extent because he was shot and in pain and that clearly affected his stamina, but those should have been the reasons he lost instead of Rey pausing the game, taping into the Force just because he mentioned she needed to be taught how to use it and then suddenly whooping his ass. What that scene needed was an Empire inspired Vader VS Luke but with Ren being significantly more hurt by the end of it but strong enough to end in a tactical retreat either by Rey and Finn or by him after Chewbacca showed up in the Falcon or because, you know, the whole base was blowing up.

Interesting. I found her ability to resist Kylo to be a natural part of her gifts. I had a lot more difficult time buying her ability to defeat him in a light saber battle. That doesn't make sense on any level (sword fighting takes years of training regardless of other powers).
 
Phasma is clearly going to shine in VIII and IX. She's been humiliated. She will have warped into a character who is out for blood. Finn will be as surprised by hee newfound tenacity as the audience.
 
But there was the perfect opportunity to show her off and they waste it on a random stormtrooper. Instead she has like five lines and does virtually nothing.

It also would have made way more sense to have someone like Captain Phasma overseeing a prisoner as important as Rey instead of ONE STORMTROOPER.
 
Phasma was even worse than Boba. I don't even know how that was possible but there it is. She totally should have been that stormtrooper at the Pirate Base.

As it stands her character should have been totally cut. She does jack and shit in the film.

Totally agree. I thought her character was a disgrace. Probably the shittiest captain in the galaxy. It wouldn't have been a huge deal but they hyped up that character so much that it was the ultimate fail to watch her ineffectiveness.
 
Kylo Ren is a powerful Force user who has been training at it and swordsmanship presumably for most of his life. It makes no sense whatsoever that Rey got the better of him during the interrogation exchange. I would have understood and actually liked it if she got a shot in after he extracted what he wanted and that startled him. For her to actually turn it all on him though, I don't think that should have happened. It made Kylo Ren look like a joke and sucked tension out of his subsequent scenes because he was prematurely neutered.

The swordsmanship complaints are absurd. Luke more than held his own against Vader in their first matchup and Vader had absurd levels of training.
 
Phasma is clearly going to shine in VIII and IX. She's been humiliated. She will have warped into a character who is out for blood. Finn will be as surprised by hee newfound tenacity as the audience.

She's dead. I don't even know why they hired Christie to do the role. Can't tall woman could have done that.
 
I don't agree Ridley was poor in the role, and I thought Rey was both believable emotionally and a decent character type.

I do agree Phasma was wasted.

The more I think about it, my biggest problem is entirely centered around doing this Obi Wan shit to Luke. It seems like he would have seen it coming, or at least not made the same mistake, but then again why do have three Death Stars in 4 movies? I just feel like Luke should have ended up able to be another Yoda, unless there becomes a really well explained story behind Kylo Ren in the next film. I just feel like the only way they could make this worse is for Luke to be a drunk or something.

One thing I am curious about though is as much as I like the characters and energy of the film, I can't say I'm left with any desire to run out and catch the next one unless it is guaranteed fresh material. These characters need to grow in new directions. Where they are now isn't going to satisfyingly work with more feature length nostalgia grabs.
 
He had like an afternoon's worth of training from Obi-Wan and a year with Yoda where he learned how to lift stuff and do flips while running in the swamps.

I'm exaggerating a bit but he has very, very little training by the time ROTJ happens. Compared with the fact that the Jedi before Order 66 were trained since children and didn't typically become "Masters" until they were Adults.

Luke wasn't a real Jedi Master. He was just the only Jedi in existence, which makes him a Master by default. In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.

The fact that he made such progress in a short time made me think he was impressive.

I guess to others the timeframe means that he couldn't have possibly done that and was actually relatively weak. It's an assessment I don't at all agree with but it seems to be purely conjecture from both sides.

Hell, maybe the 10 year old Jedi kids could influence the weak minded. I don't know that they couldn't.
 
Phasma is clearly going to shine in VIII and IX. She's been humiliated. She will have warped into a character who is out for blood. Finn will be as surprised by hee newfound tenacity as the audience.

It's tough to recover from the Trash Compactor of Shame.
 
He had like an afternoon's worth of training from Obi-Wan and a year with Yoda where he learned how to lift stuff and do flips while running in the swamps.

I'm exaggerating a bit but he has very, very little training by the time ROTJ happens. Compared with the fact that the Jedi before Order 66 were trained since children and didn't typically become "Masters" until they were Adults.

Luke wasn't a real Jedi Master. He was just the only Jedi in existence, which makes him a Master by default. In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is king.

^^^^^ this
 
Nahh...as it is now, Finn placement in the story serve more as a marketing tool to divert people to believe he's the Jedi.
There's nothing in this movie that indicate he's force sensitive. I'm not even sure where they are taking his character after this.
He'll probably stay around to remind Rey not to turn to the dark side. Until he loses the will to live.
 
I'm kind of curious if it would've worked better to not reveal Kylo's face until his confrontation with Han. It felt like that was supposed to be a "big moment", but we'd already seen his face so it was just like "ah, there he is again".
 
Interesting. I found her ability to resist Kylo to be a natural part of her gifts. I had a lot more difficult time buying her ability to defeat him in a light saber battle.

I think her resistance should be no surprise. In the SW universe either people are duped by force persuasion or they are not. In terms of interrogation, it's not surprise that she was also able to resist. All she really did was push back on a mental connection that Kylo had established. Already Poe resisted, but through her force affinity she had just that extra leverage to push back. She's a tough kid from a tough planet. I saw it more as general mental fortitude than amazing force abilities.
 
Must have missed that one.

He tracks Han down in ESB and essentially outsmarts him. He then is able to carry Han's frozen body off and collect the bounty. Not to mention just look imposing next to Vader.

TBH if it was Phasma that faced Finn and got shot dead by Han, peeps would still be bitching about it.

Yea it would have been anti-climatic but it would have still been better than what we got.
 
No it makes it feel better that he isn't perfect at everything. Having Luke instantly be this perfect, wise Jedi is pretty emblematic of what made so much of the old EU read like fan-fiction (and I read a LOT of it!). Why would we expect Luke to be good teacher? He received about 4 hours training from Obi Wan and 3 days from Yoda. Of course he isn't going to be perfect and when dealing with something like the Dark Side then failure carries a steep price. And it seems likely that Snoke was actively working against him which made things even harder.

Good thing we don't have any Jedi that are instantly perfect at everything without training at all in this movie.

That woulda sucked, you are right.
 
Phasma is clearly going to shine in VIII and IX. She's been humiliated. She will have warped into a character who is out for blood. Finn will be as surprised by hee newfound tenacity as the audience.

It wouldn't make a lot of sense, though. She deactivated the shield protecting the Starkiller. Either she will be executed as a traitor, or become a rogue villain like Norrington hunting Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, which would just be a distraction.
 
Phasma is clearly going to shine in VIII and IX. She's been humiliated. She will have warped into a character who is out for blood. Finn will be as surprised by hee newfound tenacity as the audience.
Yeah, no way are they going to shortchange Gwendoline Christie in the long run. Phasma has potential.

.

There was zero chance of Luke actually winning that. Rey made Kylo her little bitch.
Kind of reinforces how Kylo is an inadequate Vader acolyte with incomplete training, no? Exactly where his character arc was heading all along.
 
The more people try to defend Rey's absurd proficiency with the Force and lighsabers as not being too far fetched and within the scope of her abilities for whatever reason, the more I actually dislike those aspects of the film and her character.

Kylo Ren is a powerful Force user who has been training at it and swordsmanship presumably for most of his life. It makes no sense whatsoever that Rey got the better of him during the interrogation exchange. I would have understood and actually liked it if she got a shot in after he extracted what he wanted and that startled him. For her to actually turn it all on him though, I don't think that should have happened. It made Kylo Ren look like a joke and sucked tension out of his subsequent scenes because he was prematurely neutered.

The sword fight at the end you could mitigate to some extent because he was shot and in pain and that clearly affected his stamina, but those should have been the reasons he lost instead of Rey pausing the game, taping into the Force just because he mentioned she needed to be taught how to use it and then suddenly whooping his ass. What that scene needed was an Empire inspired Vader VS Luke but with Ren being significantly more hurt by the end of it but strong enough to end in a tactical retreat either by Rey and Finn or by him after Chewbacca showed up in the Falcon or because, you know, the whole base was blowing up.

It's canon that Kylo's saber is a janky mock up of an ancient design that he discovered. Combine that with his statement that Luke's saber is his, implies that he was never given a Lightsaber or had training in it's use from Luke. I don't know that it's safe to assume that he's actually practiced swordsmanship, at least a skilled training for it, for most of his life.

Either way, it doesn't appear that he's had extensive training. Snoke comments at the end of the movie that he needs to finish, so there's still much for him to learn. If I had to guess, I'd say that his teachings probably stopped the day of the betrayal and from that point on hunting down Luke became the priority sence there were no other trained Force users to challenge him or Snoke.
 
Vader was toying with luke, if he wanted to he would have killed him easily

He was not toying the whole fight. Luke put up a shockingly good fight and hurt him. Yes, Vader could have killed him at any time but Luke totally did way better than any amateur had any right to going up against on someone on his level.

Also, someone above said Luke had a year with Yoda. No way. It was whatever time it took for Han and Leia to go from the Asteroid field to Bespin without light speed. And he didn't go back in the six month gap between Empire and Jedi.

Luke didn't even get a degree mill's worth of Jedi training.
 
Hopefully they just forget Phasma and move on. Yes I know she's in 8. Just have her do what she does in this movie.

Just focus on the Knights and call it a wash with her.
 
It's tough to recover from the Trash Compactor of Shame.

She's been through worse.

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The more people try to defend Rey's absurd proficiency with the Force and lighsabers as not being too far fetched and within the scope of her abilities for whatever reason, the more I actually dislike those aspects of the film and her character.

Kylo Ren is a powerful Force user who has been training at it and swordsmanship presumably for most of his life. It makes no sense whatsoever that Rey got the better of him during the interrogation exchange. I would have understood and actually liked it if she got a shot in after he extracted what he wanted and that startled him. For her to actually turn it all on him though, I don't think that should have happened. It made Kylo Ren look like a joke and sucked tension out of his subsequent scenes because he was prematurely neutered.

The sword fight at the end you could mitigate to some extent because he was shot and in pain and that clearly affected his stamina, but those should have been the reasons he lost instead of Rey pausing the game, taping into the Force just because he mentioned she needed to be taught how to use it and then suddenly whooping his ass. What that scene needed was an Empire inspired Vader VS Luke but with Ren being significantly more hurt by the end of it but strong enough to end in a tactical retreat either by Rey and Finn or by him after Chewbacca showed up in the Falcon or because, you know, the whole base was blowing up.

I don't deny that her tapping into the force and all was kind of bullshit, but you can't pull this particular rug out from under Rey without pulling it out under Luke as well.

A New Hope: How much force training did Ben give him? Intercepting some toy drone blasts blindfolded. One training exercise that lasted a under a frikken minute. This was all that was needed to give him the ability to make a one in a million shot?

Empire Strikes Back: Granted, Luke got his ass beat, but at the same time, he did conspicuously well for a guy who had, what, a weeks training with Yoda. After this, he goes back to Yoda for more training....

Edit: My mistake. I said he had a couple weeks of training from Yoda. Actually, it couldn't have been more than a couple hours. To quote the cracked article: "So there's the famous sequence where Luke gets trained by Yoda on Yoda's shithole of a planet. To break up the sequence, the film cuts to the Millennium Falcon getting chased by the Empire to Lando's cloud city. When they arrive, they get captured, at which point Luke has finished his training. Well, that doesn't work. Were they chased for months? Or was Luke trained in an afternoon? Either we were spared some extended scenes on board the Millennium Falcon featuring starvation and debates about when they'd have to eat Chewbacca, or becoming a Jedi is easier than getting a cub scout merit badge."

Return of the Jedi: just for him to die after telling him that he has to confront Darth Vader to become a Jedi knight. Apparently, the reason he wasn't ready to fight Vader in Empire is because he didn't know he had to fight Vader. From here, Luke is still not strong enough to defeat Vader...unless he's really really mad.

Yeah, you can argue that it's character stuff that determines strength in the force, but looking at it logically, Luke should be an utter noob, and his abilities are as BS as Rey's. Which is kind of why I feel the movie works. The flaws it has are the flaws that the originals suffer from. If you can ignore them in the originals, you can ignore them here.
 
I can buy Kylo losing because he's portrayed as an unstable character throughout the movie. Yeah, he's been trained, but not everyone takes to training the same way. He's fucking unhinged and, while he seemed to think killing his dad would help him see clearer, it doesn't seem to have helped much at all. In fact, combine that trauma with Chewie's bowcaster and two kids insulting his ego by standing up to him, and you have someone not exactly in prime focus to kick ass.

Even the hitting of his wound seems to indicate he's still having to fend off the light. And with that light still lingering inside, he's not able to take full advantage of his pain and rage.
 
It wouldn't make a lot of sense, though. She deactivated the shield protecting the Starkiller. Either she will be executed as a traitor, or become a rogue villain like Norrington hunting Jack Sparrow in Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest, which would just be a distraction.

Her going rogue is my guess, yeah. Out for revenge; she's done what she's had to do in order to make ends meet since having to escape Starkiller.

It'll all be in the execution. Interesting or shoddy.
 
Hopefully they just forget Phasma and move on. Yes I know she's in 8. Just have her do what she does in this movie.

Just focus on the Knights and call it a wash with her.

A major subplot in Episode 8 will involve a main character having to infiltrate or escape the Starkiller ruins via the trash compactor. Then they will face their worst nightmare there.
 
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