You are completely correct and I don't have a problem with it - I was merely comparing it to disbelief that she could resist his interrogation. Mental defenses are far more instinctual than something like sword fighting.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
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You are completely correct and I don't have a problem with it - I was merely comparing it to disbelief that she could resist his interrogation. Mental defenses are far more instinctual than something like sword fighting.
Calcium
Banned
At no point is Luke shown training with a sword. The small bit of training in ANH was teaching him how to "see" with the Force and Yoda didn't teach him anything with the lightsaber.
She is shown using a staff. I know they aren't the same, but certainly she has proficiency in melee combat. Enough for it not to be an issue, at least. Hell, at least she is shown having combat experience. Luke was just a farm boy that fought Vader with no actual combat training.
SparkleMotion
Member
Can we assume that Vader could have probably stopped Han Solo's blaster bolt in mid-air, but didn't need to show off like Kylo Ren? If anything, Vader harmlessly catching the blaster bolt on his palm is more a show of skill then what Ren did, so I don't get why people think freezing the blaster bolt is some next level shit that makes him amazingly powerful.
Kylo caught and held a blaster shot in midair. That was the most badass scene in any of the trilogies.
I combined these quotes because they were connected.
Dude, he was a farm boy in some hick planet taking shots at some alien road kill whom we don't even see so they could be easy targets for all we know. If all he needed to make that shot was self imposed training on road kill with his shit calmed then either the shot wasn't that hard to take, or it's awfully convenient how Luke is able to use the force (Obiwan's 'calming' effect or no) to this significant of a buff on his aiming skills after a single exercise in it.
So, what, Luke comes back after 4 years of doing god knows what and Yoda just says his training is complete? That was the last part of his experience, level grinding on offscreen characters?
I think you're taking some liberties with the narrative that you're not with the narrative of TFA. Your complaining about how Rey was able to fight off Ren, and how he has so much more training than her. All you know is very broad generalities. You don't know how or why force mind reading works. Nor do you know what kind of training Ren had. But Luke doing whatever off screen is enough justification for his training as a Jedi Knight to be complete?
You can make the same argument about Rey, really. We know she is proficient in the force, whose existance was confirmed by Han and demonstrated by Ren, and guided by that tiny orange female yoda lady. This is clearly a new skill for her, but she is one of those shonen "I have no skill to use this spirit energy power, but I have a shitton of it that I can overwhelm my opponents with" tropes. I mean, even Luke hadn't gotten flashbacks when he touched his goddamn fathers lightsaber. The movie made special emphasis on how she's basically crazy strong with the force, so it is, by definition, clearly established. If you can point to me what you consider a skillful demonstration of force in the movie, I'd like to see it, because all she does is a couple basic tricks she's seen others do. Rey's proficiency is minimal here. She just has a ton of it to use, against a guy whose apprently shit in it.
I thought it was obvious that she has a past, she was most likely a child at this academy Luke set up and trained somewhat before being left on Jakku for her own protection.
"M" for M..organa, right?
Not really. Just because we haven't seen a Jedi do that before, doesn't mean it's an impressive feat. It's much easier and economical to deflect blaster shots with your lightsaber. Several jedi master have said this in books and games. It looks cool, yeah, but it's not an indicator of power.
Again, Jedi easily deflect blaster shots, that already proves how good their reflexes are.
Agent Unknown
Member
1. Yoda and R2 fighting over Luke's flashlight.
2. Holiday Special
3. Bea Arthur and Art Carney in the Holiday Special
4. The random fan made short which Lucas picked as the winner on that Sci-Fi channel special hosted by Kevin Smith in 2001.
5. "Looka-nook-nana-loola Looka-nook-nana-loola Looka-nook-nana-loola" Ewok
song as they're getting ready to cook and eat Han and Luke.
6. Ewoks Saturday morning cartoon series
7. ESB poster
Anakin won because everyone else was a filthy cheater, and cheaters never win.
If she has had training, it's fucking dumb that the movie doesn't indicate that at all. Dissonant even. She's all looking at Han in wonderment and impressed to hear that all the stories are true. How does that attitude jive with her having also been trained as a light saber duelist? So she was just lying her ass off to Han, her immediately-adopted father-figure?
I like Rey's style and attitude and performance but she's paper thin as a character. Everything we know about her is 1) she's resourceful and a quick learner and 2) she was pretty sad about being abandoned as a kid.
Phasma should just go on to be a full-on bounty hunter. I see no way for her to redeem herself with the First Order seeing how easily she lowered the shields. And it would feed into this film since she mostly cares about herself not the cause, which makes her a perfect fit for a bounty hunter.
Have her steal or get a Naboo J-Type diplomatic barge that goes with her suit and hold a personal grudge against Finn and we're set.
Have her steal or get a Naboo J-Type diplomatic barge that goes with her suit and hold a personal grudge against Finn and we're set.
My take is that freezing or locking things is just sort of his affinity with force use. A more hypothetical thought I had is that he may have trained to "palm blasters" like Vader, but ultimately found himself stopping the shots instead. Perhaps out of apprehension of letting them hit him.
You dont know that. All we know right now is that Rey has a hidden past, probably one as a padawan at the very least.
Did we even watch the same movie where we saw flashbacks of her memories in the past and a whole lot of foreshadowing about a hidden history? To call that no indication at all is really stretching it.
I like that we have no problems with a weapon that sucks up a sun and then shoots it out as separately targeted missiles star systems away, magic mind reading, telekinesis, everyone just happens to be hanging out around some shithole junkyard despite an infinite number of other places to be in the galaxy.
This is all cool, all good.
That one sword duel though.....man so fictitious.
This is all cool, all good.
That one sword duel though.....man so fictitious.
The reflexes necessary to catch a blaster bolt would be like trying to catch a bullet. Jedi masters were getting fucked up by blasters and we didn't see them try anything like this.
SparkleMotion
Member
That's pretty much all you need for a fun space fantasy movie.
gutterboy44
Member
Rey was already proficient in combat. She could have had 10 years of meaningful combat, regardless of force knowledge or weapon of choice. If she is getting scrappy every weekend since she was a kid, that is a huge deal with knowing how to fight. It is demonstrated early on in the movie. Hell, her kick the dude in the chest move is foreshadowed when she meets Finn that she eventually uses to get Kylo on his back. Luke was a nobody. He could shoot a rifle and that is about it. Rey was skilled enough in comabt to take on several assailants at once with a bow staff. Going one on one against an wounded emo-vader after she just got the force raging through her hard with a sword, (one half her weapon of choice that she carries with the familiarity of a warrior), is not even remotely a stretch. You continue to just ignore so many things the movie serves you on a silver platter with spot lights shining on them to show how we arrived at that duel and why the outcome was the way it is. You can't seem to move past, "but Rey is just a lame girl and Kylo is a man."
SparkleMotion
Member
You don't see Ren catching blaster bolts from an army. I imagine if he was getting the same fire as those Jedi masters you refer to, he wouldn't be stopping them like Neo.
More_Badass
Member
I always thought he simply blocked it with his robotic hand
The distance is also super short when Vader did it.
No, that was just a holographic projection making him appear as such at times.
Acerac
Banned
Yoda taught him how to properly progress by himself as a Jedi. Hence why he said he had nothing more to teach him when he returned.
If you want you could pretend that he did nothing for those 6 months and then just magically got powers, but that makes WAY less sense than imagining he trained for 6 months then got said abilities.
You can make excuses to make the plot make less sense, but that seems really strange.
He is Yoda sized or smaller.
Guaranteed.
I want him to be a giant.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Ren and Rey are both Skywalkers (probably). She is powerful and blessed with sudden clarity, simply being pressured by Ren awakens her power and she already knows she's strong enough to push back against him and read him. He's a conflicted insecure douche who has just been shot and burned after fighting with someone else, and who is wielding a lightsaber he assembled from chinese parts after watching a youtube video
Jest Chillin
Member
Can't assume that, no. They may be related techniques but they're different. It's not only that Ren froze it but that he held it there, seemingly without much effort for a long period of time and non-chalantly let it go as he was walking away. It seems like his go-to calling card of a technique. More than likely something he's naturally proficient at that he uses all the time.
Seemed like whether or not he is, they instantly wanted him to look insanely imposing compared to the other characters. Don't forget the first time we see the Emperor is a gigantic hologram.
Dreams-Visions
Member
wut. did you manage to watch a special edition that the rest of us didn't? because I definitely saw that sequence.
wut
We can go back and forth on speculation all day. That doesn't change the fact Ren is trained and Rey is not. That's all that matters.
Annakin was arguably the greatest duelist in his time. He was better than Ben. Ben just had his number (and the high ground!) that one they fought on Mustafar and he was high on his own hype. Regardless, everyone of those examples you've mentioned are skilled Force users with years of experience.
Rey has no experience. There is no logic to it.
I expected better from you than this lazy handwaving response of "It's a movie with aliens, who cares?"
There is an internal logic that even Star Wars adheres to and has adhered to since ANH right up to the moment with Rey in the interrogation scene.
Maybe the fight was just too choreographed, but nothing about the fights in the forest suggested Ren had lost his chill to the point of becoming a blind berserker. He fought with disciplined composure and technique. He was even trying to get Rey on his side, so it makes no sense to blame it on him being "unhinged." He wasn't.
Kylo stopped a blaster shot and kept it suspended midair. He can Force Grip people into place and he can tear through their subconscious. The movie makes it very clear that he is a powerful Force user.
Which is expected considering he's a freaking Skywalker.
I haven't once ignored that he was injured. My point is that the fight still shouldn't have ended the way it did.
LowParry
Member
Man I was hoping he'd be some 10 foot guy. Anyway. Enjoyed the movie a lot. Brought me to tears when Han and Leia meet and the music kicks in.
What? He's using an old design. The idea that the build as shitty hasn't been established by anyone.
tiny penis
SparkleMotion
Member
Your explanation seems like more of a stretch than mine.
<3 Me too. Good movie with some great emotional beats.
Considering he held that blaster shot in place for a good bit of time, I imagine it wasn't that draining. Maybe the reflex side might come into play but we still haven't seen any Jedi or Sith even attempt anything like that.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Will someone please tell JJ Abrams how far apart planets are? Good lord this is like the third movie in a row
On the whole I thought the film was pretty good - I probably have unrealistically high expectations for Star Wars movies because they define my childhood movie watching on videotape. It might have been my first movie at the cinema with my dad as well.
Worst part for me was Han Solo or should I say Harrison Ford. He just wasn't credible as the action hero he was in the original films. The film was made 15+ years too late for him.
I finally watched the trailer after the film and it was all about making Finn look like the new Jedi. That would of fooled me if I had watched it.
Worst part for me was Han Solo or should I say Harrison Ford. He just wasn't credible as the action hero he was in the original films. The film was made 15+ years too late for him.
I finally watched the trailer after the film and it was all about making Finn look like the new Jedi. That would of fooled me if I had watched it.
Transwarp Singularity Shooter. It turns the entire universe into a lizard.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
I'm fine with her holding her own against him but beating him is my problem. Also people keep using "he's hurt" thing but nowhere during the fight shows him stumble or weak at all.
I feel like they're just trying to put Rey at greater risk of falling to the Dark Side than we ever saw with Luke. There was never a reason for Luke to turn. His use of the Force was always under the tutelage of Obi-Wan and Yoda. Rey hasn't yet had that guidance.
Those weren't flashbacks they were ~mysterious visions~, one of which is *forward* in time to Ren in the snow. That whole segment was incoherent.
But even if she has a ~hidden Jedi training history~ then that sucks too because she plays off like she's impressed and excited at "it's true all of it" from Han. Rey's whole arc is otherwise framed as a Hero stepping into a Larger World.
CrichtonKicks
Member
In 3 days.
If you can get all your Jedi training in less time than it takes people to complete a 30 hour OSHA course then why in the hell did they have Jedi Academies?
The whole point is that the logic in TFA is no worse than that of the OT.
Are we sure they aren't moons?
Agent Unknown
Member
No, come on. He's big but he's more like that really tall, lanky guy in the Simpsons film festival episode who pants Nelson for yelling "Ha-ha" at him.
riskybusinesstomcruise
Member
Yeah, also speculation as to weather or not he's some type of alien species or just mangled by the dark side a-la Palpatine?
It shows him bleeding prior to the fight and he pounds it again in the middle of the fight.
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