During my viewing of the film, this is who kept coming into mind in terms of where Kylo was at.
This is really good.
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
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This is really good.
It's an intentional contrast but it's always hard for me to take seriously those scenes when some high-ranking official starts bossing around and berating a dude so powerful he can literally fling you against a wall or choke you to death with his mind.
I know it's making some commentary about the influence of people in political power or whatnot, and their general arrogance (like the dude who mocked Vader about the Force), but it can come off as a bit silly when watching it unfold.
When your an absolute great tactician and military leader necessary for the Empire or New Order to even be effective at a large scale. I think you can maintain a spine.
He probably won't be that giant when we see him in person, but Serkis did say that Snoke is meant to be 7 feet tall.
TheOctodad
Member
Because he's overconfident and thinks he's the shit. He's trying to "fake it till you make it." He thinks Rey is a pushover girl. But even his force dominate was before she realized her force ability. It probably wouldn't have worked again.
In my mind she was trying to resist torture and discovered the ability when he was tapping into her mind. She learned all her powers so far through observing Kylo and mimicking him.
The "Kylo lost because he's emotionally unstable" angle isn't satisfying either. In Jedi, Luke comes against Vader, is emotionally unstable as fuck, and that drives him to beat Vader's shit to pieces in a berserker rage. But what is the character of Kylo's instability? It's one thing if he fails because he's horrified by the violence he just did to Han, then he should lose the fight because he hesitates, showing mercy or at least reluctance to kill.
If Kylo's too distraught or distracted to fight then why does he even pick the fight. So he loses because hubris?
The beginning of the movie is so much better than the end. When Finn is distraught and fucked up and scared, dude goes on tilt big time and the camera and performance and script give his anxiety time to breath. Kyle goes on tilt and... beats his chest a couple times I guess?
If Kylo's too distraught or distracted to fight then why does he even pick the fight. So he loses because hubris?
The beginning of the movie is so much better than the end. When Finn is distraught and fucked up and scared, dude goes on tilt big time and the camera and performance and script give his anxiety time to breath. Kyle goes on tilt and... beats his chest a couple times I guess?
Yeah. IIRC Han tried to make Maz get Rey and Finn to the rebel base, and Maz in response was trying to convince him to actually do it himself.
TheOctodad
Member
It's an intentional contrast but it's always hard for me to take seriously those scenes when some high-ranking official starts bossing around and berating a dude so powerful he can literally fling you against a wall or choke you to death with his mind.
I know it's making some commentary about the influence of people in political power or whatnot, and their general arrogance (like the dude who mocked Vader about the Force), but it can come off as a bit silly when watching it unfold.
That happened with Vader too.
It's it surprising to me at all. Same way politicians might deride a special ops commando.
If anything, Gleeson was refreshing. Apart from that one jackass and Tarkin from ANH, all of the other officers conversing with Vader always shriveled up in conversation.
Because every Jedi is the same? I find these appeals to precedent to be borish.
She knows a bunch of stuff, apparently just through the grapevine. Like Han Solo doing the Kessel run and whatever. It's not improbable that she has heard about jedi powers. But yeah, I think there maybe should have been a scene where Kylo uses a mind trick on someone in view of Rey.
Mister_Bubbles
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"On accident" must be an American thing. Certainly never used in England.
Probably the weakest scene for me.
Was that the Raid actors! What about the Storm Trooper staff fighter, the Knights of Ren bunch, that not them too?
I hope they didn't waste them on that freighter scene.
What I loved about Kylo Ren was the difference to Darth Vader.
Darth Vader never used the force to push you to him so he could choke you. he just force-choked you and you dropped dead. Clean, efficient. Vader never threw a tantrum slashing a terminal in pieces..he was intimidating because he was Darth Vader.
Kylo on the other hand is not intimidating as Kylo Ren but only because of the way he uses the force.
Hard to explain what I mean but Kylo is just such a try-hard. Rey was on point when she said "you are afraid that you are not as strong as Vader"
Darth Vader never used the force to push you to him so he could choke you. he just force-choked you and you dropped dead. Clean, efficient. Vader never threw a tantrum slashing a terminal in pieces..he was intimidating because he was Darth Vader.
Kylo on the other hand is not intimidating as Kylo Ren but only because of the way he uses the force.
Hard to explain what I mean but Kylo is just such a try-hard. Rey was on point when she said "you are afraid that you are not as strong as Vader"
or something like that
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Just got out of my first viewing.
Decent film but it's trying a bit too hard to reference the original trilogy as often as possible.
I know the Internet has decided the prequel trilogy was jank but at least it felt like a Star Wars film on top of feeling like its own thing at the same time.
Decent film but it's trying a bit too hard to reference the original trilogy as often as possible.
I know the Internet has decided the prequel trilogy was jank but at least it felt like a Star Wars film on top of feeling like its own thing at the same time.
TheOctodad
Member
You are trying really hard to be upset about this.
Like gets angry, Kylo is a petulant child that is not sure who he even wants to be. He's scared and insecure.
He fights because he's trying to prove to himself that he can do it. It's really not that hard to grasp.
He beats his chest to cause pain in another part of his body to kee the brain distracted from the wound. It's. A military thing.
If you don't like appeals to precedent you must've hated this movie lmao.
They're credited as working on the fight choreography. For what fights, I don't know, but their role in the movie was more than just a brief cameo on the freighter (which seems more like a bonus just to get them on screen once).
I don't know if the Raid guys being the Knights of Ren is any less of a wasted opportunity, since they do even less. :lol
Poe was actually like the one new character who I felt indifferent towards. He just left no real impression on me. Didn't find him all that appealing.
the choreograph is certainly the raid actors
for the storm trooper vs finn and the future knights of ren fights in VIII and IX
but, the cameo in the freighter scenes were definitely them
OricWindstar
Member
Yup. He asks her to do it, and she flat out says no. She then tells him to do it, as he's been running too long from that fight.
Just sounds like Luke to me.
BarringGaffner
Member
again for Snoke size.... the size reveal already happened.
Yes. Is that hard to believe? Everything we know about him is that he's a temperamental hothead who thinks he's the shit. Of course he's not the "I'll lick my wounds and run to fight another day!" type.
BravesCountry
Banned
Anyone else think Rey was too perfect, like they were too afraid to give her any real flaws? And the speed at which she picks up force powers and being able to wield a lightsaber is absurd. I liked the one theory I read earlier that she flips to the darkside somehow and Kylo Ren is the real protagonist of the story. Him being the underdog so far force-wise would be more satisfying that way. It's probably too much of a leap though now that he has killed Han that he could end up being the protagonist of the whole trilogy.
Darryl M R
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Low page post 
the movie was great!
the movie was great!"Not even Yoda has that high of a midi-chlorian count!"
RadioactiveLobster
Member
I recall reading/seeing something a while back where Harrison Ford had said something along the lines of he wasn't all that interested in it and didn't want to really do a bunch more movies. That kinda told me that he probably was just in this one to finish it out and he'd be the one who got killed.
Unless I've imagined all of this.
tattooed_dwarf
Member
And they have to look scary. And name has to be scary and evil too, otherwise they aren't good villains.
Gleeson nailed it, so good cast in this movie. I was bit vary at first but they just work in their roles.
Its because Kylo has completely transformed to the dark side. He is still fighting in his mind between light and darkness.
brandonh83
Banned
Thread moves so fast..
Was there ever a sound theory why Anakin wouldn't return as force ghost in front of Kylo and tell him the truth?
He was capable of doing so in ROTJ and now his grandson is praying to his burned up mask he left behind, so what prevents him from appearing and clearing things up?
Was there ever a sound theory why Anakin wouldn't return as force ghost in front of Kylo and tell him the truth?
He was capable of doing so in ROTJ and now his grandson is praying to his burned up mask he left behind, so what prevents him from appearing and clearing things up?
I can totally see Vader coming to Kylo as a force ghost, and fucking his mind up even more with by telling him that he turned back to the light.
Luke was the exact same in the OT. He gunned down TIEs really well, killed Troopers left and right, flew an X-Wing like an expert in a major battle (his first) and the most impressive feat across all 7 films: he practically single-handed took out the Death Star.
I think this is all setup so we watch her get beat down really hard in the next movie.
Bonus cameo makes sense. Knights of Ren has yet to happen right...so they come later again.
Yeah, back for the next episode or two.
Yeah, he was one of the worst parts of the film. It's not that he wasn't intimidating. That's fine, youre stood next to Kylo Ren, you're not the one people are going to be afraid of. He just over acted the whole time, I've already said in the thread he was delivering lines with the depth of a Scooby Doo villain. It's like he was acting in a kids tv movie rather then Star Wars. The exception being his speach before the Star Killer fired, but apart from that he was awful.
Jest Chillin
Member
Luke's emotional turmoil isn't the same as Kylo's. Luke gets angry but has a moment of clarity. Kylo summons the strength to do what he thinks he must but he recieves no clarity as a result.
Well I'm an American, so probably?
BravesCountry
Banned
I still find it hard to believe that he would lose to someone who had never used a lightsaber before, even if they are strong with the force. It was a serious wound but he clearly showed he could move around well enough with it. Someone compared it to the gladiator scene but they did a much better job in gladiator of portraying a mortally wounded fighter holding his own despite the wound. In TFA they acknowledge the wound before the fight starts but it doesn't seem to really affect his movements or anything afterwards. Could have been done a lot better IMO
I can't judge an arc before seeing the arc.
I'm speaking more from a self-contained movie standpoint in that she is an extreme expert duelist from the beginning, knows the ship even better than Han, is an expert pilot, picks up force powers incredibly easily, has a heart of gold, etc.. Just didn't feel like a realistic, fleshed out character to me.
The whole conceit that Kylo Ren is a petulent Darth Vader wannabe was quite well-done, from the way he tries to intimidate and influence both underlings and political equals alike through force (rather than persuasion like Palpatine), to the black flowing robes and the comically unnecessary breathing mask.
There's actually some humor there, intentional I have to imagine.
CloudyTuba
Member
My girlfriend after the movie asked me "Is Snoke the Emperor?" And I replied, "No. If the emperor came back to life in secret, he would not choose the name Snoke to hide his identity. That's not a name anyone chooses, that's a name you're born with and have to live with. Nobody would choose a name that stupid."
Then again, "Sheev."
Jest Chillin
Member
Darkside users can't communicate with Force Ghosts apparently. It's covered in The Clone Wars cartoon series, though I haven't seen the episode myself.
Darryl M R
Member
I'm still thinking about this movie--no movie has made me really want to learn more about the universe and lore like this. I'm only 22 and didn't group up with Star Wars. If I want to read up on this lore and the universe are the books no longer canon? I'm hoping to watch all 6 movies (I only watched the last 3 before). I'm assuming I should watch it 1-7, or 4-7 and then 1-3?
Also thinking back Finn really pushed the movie along, I'm surprised that he isn't considered the main character.
Also why do Jedi's go to the dark side? Is it a choice or can they not help it?
Hoping to get some guidance of how to get into the series
Also thinking back Finn really pushed the movie along, I'm surprised that he isn't considered the main character.
Also why do Jedi's go to the dark side? Is it a choice or can they not help it?
Hoping to get some guidance of how to get into the series
Might helped him stay conscious/alert by focusing on the pain. That bowcaster bolt frankly fucked him up.
Luke in no way picked stuff up as fast as she did. He had trouble even pulling a lightsaber to him at the beginning of ESB.
I can totally see Vader coming to Kylo as a force ghost, and fucking his mind up even more with by telling him that he turned back to the light.
But why hasn't he done that already before his grandson killed his daughter's husband?
Is he currently busy in the after-life?
Ok, now that I've read some explanatory articles I understand the gist of what the state of the galaxy was better. I came out of the theater kinda confused at what the heck the deal was with the First Order and the Resistance.
I mean, I know they're the Rebellion/Empire Mark II, but I was confused about things like how big the First Order actually was or what the Resistance is and why it wasn't just the Republic fleet.
I totally came out of the theater thinking they'd blown Coruscant up too. Whoops.
I mean, I know they're the Rebellion/Empire Mark II, but I was confused about things like how big the First Order actually was or what the Resistance is and why it wasn't just the Republic fleet.
I totally came out of the theater thinking they'd blown Coruscant up too. Whoops.
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