Live from New Hampshire, it's the 3rd Democratic Primary Debate!

Status
Not open for further replies.
PhoenixDark said:
I'm done with this debate. So much fantasy land talk. The reality is that the next democrat president - clearly Hillary Clinton - won't get much of anything done domestically. The next democrat president's term or terms will be bogged down by endless republican obstruction, investigations, and economic sabotage. That president's worth will not be measured by legislative accomplishments and instead be measured by Supreme Court justice nominations, protecting Obamacare, defending the VRA in court, and every now and then securing spending concessions during budget fights.

College won't be "free" anytime soon. There will be no tax increase on top earners. Immigration reform will not be passed. Universal healthcare will not be passed. I hope people are realistic about this shit. No candidate is going to sweep into office like Obama did, with a wave of democrat senators and congressmen to pass your agenda. Republicans will continue to hold congress and will likely continue to hold the senate, barring some amazing turn of events.
Click to expand...

I agree with you for the most part, but don't you think the point of a debate like this is to put forward your ideal policies and proposals, even if you know you'll have to compromise on those ideas when you're in office? I mean do you really think it would be a smart campaign strategy to go up there and say, "we won't get much done, but maybe we can do a few things..."?
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Preach it. These candidates are loons. It amazes me we don't have a good realist up there talking about how difficult the current political landscape is at the moment and say in real terms what we need to do today (I mean, not that we can do anything because of the political gridlock, but you know what I mean -- talk about the day-to-day tasks the president does and the things she or he actually has control over).

Influence them to do what... smoke weed and ignore minority issues?
Click to expand...

If we are going to have to compromise, I'd rather start with the progressive option. If we have to end in the middle, at least we'll be closer to what we want
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Preach it. These candidates are loons. It amazes me we don't have a good realist up there talking about how difficult the current political landscape is at the moment and say in real terms what we need to do today (I mean, not that we can do anything because of the political gridlock, but you know what I mean -- talk about the day-to-day tasks the president does and the things she or he actually has control over).

Influence them to do what... smoke weed and ignore minority issues?
Click to expand...

Do you find no value in actually building voter support? Sorry but to win you have to get people motivated. Talking about the day to day monotony of the job and skip talking about the candidates ideal platform to contain talk to only speak on the minor tweaks they can make under republican gridlock is not gonna to get people out to vote. Let alone learn the core differences of the candidates to help shape the voters decision.
 
GnawtyDog said:
Hillary playing sentimental again? The last time I didn't like it that much. Surely they most have told her to cut it out a bit?
Click to expand...

Her answer was fine but that appeal to emotion at the start of so many of her responses is getting grating. Bernie seemed to express himself pretty incoherently on the question as well, but at least he got to the crux of it. Treat addiction like a disease.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Preach it. These candidates are loons. It amazes me we don't have a good realist up there talking about how difficult the current political landscape is at the moment and say in real terms what we need to do today (I mean, not that we can do anything because of the political gridlock, but you know what I mean -- talk about the day-to-day tasks the president does and the things she or he actually has control over).

Influence them to do what... smoke weed and ignore minority issues?
Click to expand...

Are you even listening the debate? Sanders gave the best answers about minority problems. He is lecturing you, pay attention.
 
adam387 said:
And the ACA being attached to the states was one of the biggest issues. It rested on the idea that the Republicans would do what's best for their citizens. They won't. A single payer system must be run at the federal level in as non-partisan a way as possible.
Click to expand...

I understand, but if we are to get any sincere action going forward when regressives have as much influence as they do, what are we to do? These are the same people who think there is dualism between organism and environment, in 2015.

Again, aim for an endgame, but at least move the game forward. Hillary has not said a word on how this will be done. Even Sanders' plan, though not ideal and the ultimate thing we should aim for, is it least aiming forward.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Oh, boy, is this a reference to Killer Mike, the token black guy Sanders managed to rustle up as endorsement? Wake me up when he gets a real minority following. And I wouldn't be so proud of associating myself with someone so proudly professing himself a Killer.
Click to expand...

LOL

What is wrong with you, son.

Edit: Are you doing a Breitbart impression?
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Oh, boy, is this a reference to Killer Mike, the token black guy Sanders managed to rustle up as endorsement? Wake me up when he gets a real minority following. And I wouldn't be so proud of associating myself with someone so proudly professing himself a Killer.
Click to expand...

tumblr_inline_nr3nl7dkDa1sfxrd1_500.gif
 
q_q said:
I agree with you for the most part, but don't you think the point of a debate like this is to put forward your ideal policies and proposals, even if you know you'll have to compromise on those ideas when you're in office? I mean do you really think it would be a smart campaign strategy to go up there and say, "we won't get much done, but maybe we can do a few things..."?
Click to expand...

A politician is not an activist, and that difference is important from where I stand. From activists I expect demands for 110% even if we both know how unreasonable that is, because someone has to be loudly pushing at the status quo. From politicians I expect an understanding of how they plan to actually move forward with meaningful changes.
 
I like how Hillary gets props for being a realist. It is hilarious.

Especially since no matter how 'realistic' she is, the republicans are more willing to burn down the capital and the rest of the country than work with her.

So at the end of the day, she compromises on goals and a vision for no reason.
 
adam387 said:
And the ACA being attached to the states was one of the biggest issues. It rested on the idea that the Republicans would do what's best for their citizens. They won't. A single payer system must be run at the federal level in as non-partisan a way as possible.
Click to expand...

But what are the actual details there? Maybe that is part of the problem with Bernie's policy is it lacks it but we can't just assume Bernie's plan allows the same sort of opting out and wiggle room because of the ACA.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
Oh, boy, is this a reference to Killer Mike, the token black guy Sanders managed to rustle up as endorsement? Wake me up when he gets a real minority following. And I wouldn't be so proud of associating myself with someone so proudly professing himself a Killer.
Click to expand...

He has plenty of minority endorsements...you know what? why am I even trying with you, you are clearly not in your full senses right now. Let me pray for you instead.
 
The Technomancer said:
A politician is not an activist, and that difference is important from where I stand. From activists I expect demands for 110% even if we both know how unreasonable that is, because someone has to be loudly pushing at the status quo. From politicians I expect an understanding of how they plan to actually move forward with meaningful changes.
Click to expand...

Personally, I agree with you. But I just don't think that's a realistic way to run an effective campaign. Don't hate the players, hate the game.
 
Foffy said:
I understand, but if we are to get any sincere action going forward when regressives have as much influence as they do, what are we to do? These are the same people who think there is dualism between organism and environment, in 2015.

Again, aim for an endgame, but at least move the game forward. Hillary has not said a word on how this will be done. Even Sanders' plan, though not ideal and the ultimate thing we should aim for, is it least aiming forward.
Click to expand...

We work with what we have. I have no problem with Single Payer being the end game. Bernie is going from the ACA to SIngle Payer with no actual transition. The ACA is unliked because it appears, to the under-educated masses, a government takeover. We couldn't get a public option because it looked like socialism woohhhh!

Bernie's plan is unrealistic. My plan would be similar to Hillary's in that we fix the areas of the ACA that need fixed. I support adding a public option and transitioning the tax credits towards that option as opposed to publicly available healthcare.
 
Arkeband said:
LOL

What is wrong with you, son.

Edit: Are you doing a Breitbart impression?
Click to expand...

I can't believe people ere even still arguing with him. He'd doing it subtle, but he's hitting all the typical Bernie supporters generalizations. Uneducated, potheads, whites, racists. He's not looking for a dialogue here.
 
The Technomancer said:
A politician is not an activist, and that difference is important from where I stand. From activists I expect demands for 110% even if we both know how unreasonable that is, because someone has to be loudly pushing at the status quo. From politicians I expect an understanding of how they plan to actually move forward with meaningful changes.
Click to expand...

Well, not all politicians are the same.

You want vision from your president, less so from your congressmen.
 
adam387 said:
We work with what we have. I have no problem with Single Payer being the end game. Bernie is going from the ACA to SIngle Payer with no actual transition. The ACA is unliked because it appears, to the under-educated masses, a government takeover. We couldn't get a public option because it looked like socialism woohhhh!

Bernie's plan is unrealistic. My plan would be similar to Hillary's in that we fix the areas of the ACA that need fixed. I support adding a public option and transitioning the tax credits towards that option as opposed to publicly available healthcare.
Click to expand...

She justified some failings of the ACA to be glitches in reference to insoluble, increased costs. Come on, friend: she won't even admit we're dealing with a metastasized problem.

The lack of action on healthcare scares the shit out of me, because this country is doomed when it comes to the necessity of a basic income. This may need to be a 21st century necessity of the developed world. We can't even get 20th century standards for what we already have and do...
 
q_q said:
Personally, I agree with you. But I just don't think that's a realistic way to run an effective campaign. Don't hate the players, hate the game.
Click to expand...

Yep.

if Americans were able to be swayed in that way, it would signal a level of engagement in politics that is very deep and intelligent and we probably would already have most of these changes already in place.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

New Hampshire man is 2nd person known to be living with a pig kidney
28
1K
Alebrije replied
  • Locked
I think it's time we take off and nuke Reddit from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
3
723
Aesius replied
First photos from the new Masters of the Universe movie
26
2K
Jenov replied
From the World of John Wick: Ballerina | New Trailer | 2025
2
55
2K
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt replied
It's time to move away from Firefox (UP: Mozilla clarified the language in the ToS)
2
59
4K
mitch1971 replied
Top Bottom