RowdyReverb
Member
I love that the movie managed to fill almost every archetype from the first trilogy with a new, fresh character (aside from making the "old, wise mentor" an established character)
[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens - It's True. All of it.
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Valjean Lafitte
Banned
This is probably old news, but James Arnold Taylor confirmed that it is Obi-Wan yelling "Rey!" during the flashback.
Between this and hearing about "too many ships are confusing" thing, Seems there was a lot of conscious dumbing down for the lowest common denominator meetings going on behind the scenes
Cover is awesome. Reminds me of the old vinyl for the first film. Speaking of, I think John really wanted this film to SOUND like ANH. It's brassy as shit and very bombastic the whole way through. Less of the romance and tragedy of the prequels, more of the fanfare and frenzy of ANH.About the soundtrack
I did enjoy, especially 'Han and Leia' and 'Jedi Steps'. Fells like John wanted a more... relaxed? slow? vibe in this one. However, wtf with the cover?
were they out of people to do artworks?
CheeseConey
Member
Hope not, wish they had more screen time... or some sort of actual fight scene. Did they do any stunt work in this film?
Change nothing else: "Old Ally" has the key that will reboot R2, who knows where Luke is. Everything is smoother.
The Outsider
Member
This sounds a lot better. I'm hoping episode 8 covers why the map exists, because it does seem silly for someone going into exile to leave a map of where he is. Maybe I need to see it again to grasp it better though, admittedly.
The One and Done
Member
I find this "Mary Sue" shit insulting to Rey's actress.
RowdyReverb
Member
They wanted to make the movie enjoyable for children, who are by definition the lowest common denominator. I have no problem with making a new Star Wars for a new generation of kids. I had mine when I was young.
DarkHeartedKill
Member
I wouldn't say they are confusing, I found it to be cluttered rather than confusing. I could tell what was going on just unno I found it kind too much.
The map thing is one thing that doesn't really stick out too well for me though.
? All of the Star Wars movies so far have been enjoyed by children for decades, even with all the obtuse shit in the later movies. This one did feel like it was simplified to the bare essentials, almost to a detriment.
Spiritreaver
Member
eyeball_kid
Member
That's always a lame argument. Many of us were children when we saw ANH and ESB, and we figured everything out just fine.
Fata1moose
Banned
I thought it was a map to the first Jedi temple rather than a map to Luke. It's just that's where they knew he was. He didn't leave it.
I don't think any character came across as having ridiculously extraordinary ability.
The fighting in the prequels felt rather like the characters were doing some sort of laser show dance. In this movie, I liked that they seemed to beat the shit out of each other and really struggled to the death for each blow. It felt raw and brutal.
This quibbling over whether Rey can be a master Jedi right now is missing the point. We want to see someone who is skilled like this. It's been 10 years.
The fighting in the prequels felt rather like the characters were doing some sort of laser show dance. In this movie, I liked that they seemed to beat the shit out of each other and really struggled to the death for each blow. It felt raw and brutal.
This quibbling over whether Rey can be a master Jedi right now is missing the point. We want to see someone who is skilled like this. It's been 10 years.
PHOENIXZERO
Member
It was always for Rey to be lead to Luke when the time was right, that's all you need to know. What was Lor San Tekka's purpose beyond holding that piece of the map? How did he get it? Was he actually meant to be there to watch over Rey from a distance similar to Kenobi but not a part of her actual journey? How far apart were they?
We need a version of the Flash Speed Force GIF with just "The Force, I ain't gotta explain shit"
It's definitely a map to the temple. As to whether or not Luke left it on purpose is to be decided in Episode VIII. I'm leaning towards him leaving it on purpose, especially with the whole R2-D2 thing, but it could go either way.
MiamiWesker
Member
Saw it a second time, even better than the first time!
I also read the vehicle cross section book that had a crazy amount of info about the governments. So in the book it mentions that the new class of star destroyer is a violation of the weapons treaty the republic had with the first order. which means the first order is a legal government entity recognized by the republic.
The first order was formed in the "unknown territories", this is where they built Starkiller base, trained all the children and builtall their ships to hide it from the republic. They don't have infinite funds like the empire has so they needed to focus more on protecting their investments. The book says that unlike the empire they don't view their pilots as expendable, so the new TIEs have built in shields. The book makes mention that they have far fewer resources than the empire. Because they can't build so many star destroyers they made sure to fix the flaw from ended, so now there is an emergency bridge inside the ship in case the top one is blow up.
Now the resistance is explained as well. Leia knows the first order is run by Snoke, the republic doesn't believe a Sith Lord is running this new group, in fact the republic doesn't know of any of the illegal operations the first order is running. So Leia gets support from all her close friends in the republic to form the resistance. They use whatever ships they can salvage, the transport she arrives in is a modified b-wing for instance. She has no capital ships, it's just a small group of... Rebels basically.
There is a bunch of cool stuff about the Falcon and the freighter Han owns. The falcon has a special room as a wedding gift for Leia. On the freighter There is a mysterious cargo container that has always been locked and Han doesn't know the code so it just sits there unopened. It talks about the falcon ownership line and a few thinks Han and Chewie were doing as smugglers.
I also read the vehicle cross section book that had a crazy amount of info about the governments. So in the book it mentions that the new class of star destroyer is a violation of the weapons treaty the republic had with the first order. which means the first order is a legal government entity recognized by the republic.
The first order was formed in the "unknown territories", this is where they built Starkiller base, trained all the children and builtall their ships to hide it from the republic. They don't have infinite funds like the empire has so they needed to focus more on protecting their investments. The book says that unlike the empire they don't view their pilots as expendable, so the new TIEs have built in shields. The book makes mention that they have far fewer resources than the empire. Because they can't build so many star destroyers they made sure to fix the flaw from ended, so now there is an emergency bridge inside the ship in case the top one is blow up.
Now the resistance is explained as well. Leia knows the first order is run by Snoke, the republic doesn't believe a Sith Lord is running this new group, in fact the republic doesn't know of any of the illegal operations the first order is running. So Leia gets support from all her close friends in the republic to form the resistance. They use whatever ships they can salvage, the transport she arrives in is a modified b-wing for instance. She has no capital ships, it's just a small group of... Rebels basically.
There is a bunch of cool stuff about the Falcon and the freighter Han owns. The falcon has a special room as a wedding gift for Leia. On the freighter There is a mysterious cargo container that has always been locked and Han doesn't know the code so it just sits there unopened. It talks about the falcon ownership line and a few thinks Han and Chewie were doing as smugglers.
There's nothing in the film to support that though. Nobody said it was a map to a temple.
CrichtonKicks
Member
From what I can gather, the Order essentially "owns" their section of space. The Republic doesn't contest it nor claim to govern it. They don't have the political will to go to war with the Order either. So inside Order territory is a Resistance that is trying to overthrow the Order. The Republic throws some support their way but it's essentially under the table and covert.
Given that, it's entirely plausible that the Republic may not have the intel that new Death Star was being constructed.
The relationship of the Republic and Resistance seems to be like the various opposition factions that the US was supporting in Communist countries during the Cold War.
Somebody (Han maybe?) said that Luke had went off searching for a Jedi Temple. Snoke and Ren presumably know some of what Luke's goal is after the incident at the Jedi Academy so they know he is probably at the temple.
They also said that the original map came from the archives of the Empire so it definitely was't a literal "Map to Luke". Presumably Luke may have erased the final portion of the map before going into Exile. So The Order has the original section because they got it from the archives.
Fata1moose
Banned
I agreed with the reviews that Harrison Ford played Han Solo rather than playing himself. It really felt like Han and I was happy about that. Good thing he didn't mail it in.
Agreed. Plus there were a ton of Jedis in the past from different families, and they didn't all stem from the same line.
Precisely.
It's too kid friendly for its own good. There's a scene in the series where the entire town was razed, only to turn out they were all captured.
Seeing First Order actually executing civilians in this movie was surprising for me, in a good way of course.
You mean to tell me the Republic had no spies inside the former Empire?
This is the stuff I wanted from TFA. Sounds like Star Wars meets House of Cards.
Cindi Mayweather
Member
This is why I think a lot of fans airing their criticisms are trying to find negatives rather than pay attention to the actual story. To distill Rey's arc as being under developed takes a high amount of either misinterpretation of her story or flat out not paying attention.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
"You blinked first! No Jedi training for you! Not that you need training... Well, shit. Carry on."
I feel she should be Luke's daughter, as I definitely see the main Star Wars movies as the Skywalker saga and that was definitely what George intended.
Well suddenly it makes way more sense. I wish the movie had some of that in though to explain, especially the relation between leia, the republic and the first order.
How did the first order managed to build Starkiller tho ? If they barely have funds for ships, but turning a planet into a base with a superweapon is all good ?
MiamiWesker
Member
Yep, when does she stare out into Jakku for longing? What are they talking about? Her story is fantastic and it's not like Luke at all.
I think it's pretty clear that JJ Abrams wanted her to be Luke's daughter. Especially with how much import is placed on her family and her connection to the Skywalker lightsaber. Whether Rian Johnson goes with this is up in the air, but I think he will.
I dunno I think a lot of you guys are being way too critical of potential plot holes and unknown stuff due to the film's by-the-seat-of-your-pants feel and it's lack of backstory and exposition - but think about A New Hope in a vacuum. Go back and watch that movie as if you were going into the series blind and you'll see it's very bare bones in exposition and backstory too. So much is left to the imagination or merely referenced in passing as we go on a wild ride with young Luke. This film is very much about capturing that spirit, whether you feel that's a good choice or not is another thing. But it was one of the things that many people loved about the first Star Wars film. It just gave you a teasing glimpse into a huge universe of possibilities.
MagicWithEarvin
Member
Serkis says Snoke is someone who's been around "long enough" to know what's been going on, but at the same time it'll be a new character. People still think Snoke might be Plagueis, though.
Saw it a second time tonight. Have to say I liked it even more. Some things I want to point out for those complaining about the final lightsaber fight.
- Finn surviving as long as he did against Kylo was a little weird. Seemed like he didn't even last that long against that close-combat shock baton trooper he fought outside of Mas Kanada's bar.
- I still don't think Rey should have been that good with both the saber and the force at that point, BUT-
- Ren was not at all in top form. He was wounded by a Bowcaster (and we saw previously how powerful those things can be), his shoulder got nicked by Finn moments prior, and Kylo also just killed his father who he clearly struggled with turning to the light side with, so his focus in that fight could not have been very on-point. On top of that, he's not even that well-trained and he's just angry. Who knows, maybe the last time he fought someone with a lightsaber was years before during Luke's training as a kid.
Some other details and things I noticed about the film on second viewing worth noting:
- I like the little detail when Finn and Rey first meet and he tries to impress her, then goes on to repeatedly hold her hand when running away, as if he's some hopeless romantic who really just wants to be a hero. Makes me like the character even more.
- When Kylo took his helmet off the first time, he actually places it in some giant ashtray of sorts because it is actually smoking from the inside. Awesome detail.
- If Mas Kanada can see who people are, like Finn, how couldn't she see who Rey was? Maybe the force is blocking her from seeing the truth?
- Rey's flashback/vision is really interesting. The force clearly has a lot to do with lingering on certain objects and places, thus activating them when a large force essence is nearby, which is what Rey is. This is clearly why R2 woke up when he did. Luke had to assign him to shut down until someone potentially as strong with the force arrives. That would be the only reason R2, who has the location of Luke in his data, would wake up to finally reveal it; so Luke can train them.
- It also makes sense how he divided the information of his location into 2 things: R2 and the puzzle/key device. If the Empire ever found out R2 had his location, he'd be done for. Instead, send them after the macguffin that is the puzzle piece while R2 rests in the protection of Leia and the Resistance.
- On Rey's origin or possible family ties, she clearly has them with someone important. Whether it is Luke is unknown, but Luke or someone familiar with the force must have known about her, which is why they abandoned her on Jakku in the first place. So she'll never be discovered. Sort of like Obi-Wan separating Leia and Luke at birth.
- Rey has a british accent. Maybe she's related to Obi-Wan?
- The Knights of Ren looked fucking awesome in the brief flashback. I want to know their story.
- When Kylo first hears of Finn and BB-8 with a girl, his response is a little suspicious in that he knows something about Rey or maybe a force using female. His response is "A GIRL!?!?" as if he knows something. Also, when he captures Rey alone instead of BB-8 on Mas Kanada's world, Hux says something about keeping Ren's personal interests out of the way. Clearly there's something there about a connection between Ren and Rey, and I don't think "the force" alone could explain it.
- There's no way the hologram of Snoke is who he really is. If he is that big, it would just be dumb and not even exciting for any potential fight between him and the heroes. I think it's absolutely a Wizard of Oz situation and someone is behind the hologram.
- Finn surviving as long as he did against Kylo was a little weird. Seemed like he didn't even last that long against that close-combat shock baton trooper he fought outside of Mas Kanada's bar.
- I still don't think Rey should have been that good with both the saber and the force at that point, BUT-
- Ren was not at all in top form. He was wounded by a Bowcaster (and we saw previously how powerful those things can be), his shoulder got nicked by Finn moments prior, and Kylo also just killed his father who he clearly struggled with turning to the light side with, so his focus in that fight could not have been very on-point. On top of that, he's not even that well-trained and he's just angry. Who knows, maybe the last time he fought someone with a lightsaber was years before during Luke's training as a kid.
Some other details and things I noticed about the film on second viewing worth noting:
- I like the little detail when Finn and Rey first meet and he tries to impress her, then goes on to repeatedly hold her hand when running away, as if he's some hopeless romantic who really just wants to be a hero. Makes me like the character even more.
- When Kylo took his helmet off the first time, he actually places it in some giant ashtray of sorts because it is actually smoking from the inside. Awesome detail.
- If Mas Kanada can see who people are, like Finn, how couldn't she see who Rey was? Maybe the force is blocking her from seeing the truth?
- Rey's flashback/vision is really interesting. The force clearly has a lot to do with lingering on certain objects and places, thus activating them when a large force essence is nearby, which is what Rey is. This is clearly why R2 woke up when he did. Luke had to assign him to shut down until someone potentially as strong with the force arrives. That would be the only reason R2, who has the location of Luke in his data, would wake up to finally reveal it; so Luke can train them.
- It also makes sense how he divided the information of his location into 2 things: R2 and the puzzle/key device. If the Empire ever found out R2 had his location, he'd be done for. Instead, send them after the macguffin that is the puzzle piece while R2 rests in the protection of Leia and the Resistance.
- On Rey's origin or possible family ties, she clearly has them with someone important. Whether it is Luke is unknown, but Luke or someone familiar with the force must have known about her, which is why they abandoned her on Jakku in the first place. So she'll never be discovered. Sort of like Obi-Wan separating Leia and Luke at birth.
- Rey has a british accent. Maybe she's related to Obi-Wan?
- The Knights of Ren looked fucking awesome in the brief flashback. I want to know their story.
- When Kylo first hears of Finn and BB-8 with a girl, his response is a little suspicious in that he knows something about Rey or maybe a force using female. His response is "A GIRL!?!?" as if he knows something. Also, when he captures Rey alone instead of BB-8 on Mas Kanada's world, Hux says something about keeping Ren's personal interests out of the way. Clearly there's something there about a connection between Ren and Rey, and I don't think "the force" alone could explain it.
- There's no way the hologram of Snoke is who he really is. If he is that big, it would just be dumb and not even exciting for any potential fight between him and the heroes. I think it's absolutely a Wizard of Oz situation and someone is behind the hologram.
eyeball_kid
Member
Personally, I don't like that they've moved to finding inspiration from Game of Thrones for lightsaber duels. I don't mean the aspect of amateur skill; that's fine. But Ren basically fights like a LOTR/GoT character, complete with hokey crossblade sword. I hope at least Luke teaches Rey to fight with a samurai style. I'd like to see more graceful fights a la Kenshin, but I guess I'm in the minority.
CrichtonKicks
Member
Inside the former Empire or Inside the First Order?
Given that the First Order seems to be made up primarily of people who are literally indoctrinated shortly after birth and undergo regular reprogramming sessions it does not seem surprising that getting reliable Human Intel is difficult.
MiamiWesker
Member
They clearly have funds, just not enough to be an empire.
Oh and Snoke lives out of a giant spaceship which serves as the head of the first order, it keeps moving so no one finds him.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
In what way? I'm critiquing her character only. I'm sure she would understand that.The One and Done;189948686 said:
I feel like that is a decision too big to be left to just the director of Episode 8 and would be something unanimously decided upon by the main braintrust and certified by Kennedy at this point.
I could see it. It might as well be, considering the 6 films that came before it. And even if she's not, we've still got Kylo Ren Ben that still of that family tree, so it's pretty interesting nonetheless to see how this bloodline has made an impact in this universe.
Would have been interesting. I miss Lucas prequel trilogy politics.
I'm so glad this was made.
Metalingus5150
Member
So, has you guys talked about Rey's vision where she ends up in cloud city where Luke was fighting Vader?
NihonTiger90
Member
Well, building it into the planet may be a bit less expensive than the construction of an entire structure as the Death Star was. That's about the only explanation I think makes sense for it.
The First Order is comprised of the former Empire. Hux's family for example comes from the Empire.
The amount of resources to create something like Starkiller would have been insane. It's beyond belief that nobody heard about the First Order building a Death Star that is even larger than the old ones.
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