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[JeffZero]

I suspect they left a lot of the politics between the Republic and the First Order out because they would've gotten comparisons to the prequel's politics (even if they'd handled it all perfectly).

Absolutely.

 

[brickarts295]

I guessing this was just another Kylo Ren concept art then

 

[140.85]

What the... if they had even presented half of this information the film would've made so much more sense. This stuff is actually important to set the chess pieces for the new story.

I'm glad they didn't. It's more in line with the OT approach of focusing on characters rather than explaining everything that's going on. That's the mistake the prequels made so we got all those insufferable expository scenes in the senate and Jedi council. Star War isn't about trade disputes and treaties, it's about characters caught up in those things.

 

[LegalEagleMike]

I guessing this was just another Kylo Ren concept art then

He keeps picking fights with Rey and he might look like that by episode 9.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Punished 3PO!!!!! So goooood!

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

Was looking up some Star Wars stuff and found this article http://www.pennlive.com/entertainment/index.ssf/2015/12/star_wars_force_awakens_5_worst_parts.html

How much do you guys agree with the list? I'm interested in knowing.
l.

2 is whatever (comes with the territory, as they say), but 3-5 are on-point

I'm glad they didn't. It's more in line with the OT approach of focusing on characters rather than explaining everything that's going on. That's the mistake the prequels made so we got all those insufferable expository scenes in the senate and Jedi council. Star War isn't about trade disputes and treaties, it's about characters caught up in those things.

There is a middle-ground, and it would have vastly helped. Context can be important, especially when there's a gaping gap between the periods we already know

 

[Dead]

I'm glad they didn't. It's more in line with the OT approach of focusing on characters rather than explaining everything that's going on. That's the mistake the prequels made so we got all those insufferable expository scenes in the senate and Jedi council. Star War isn't about trade disputes and treaties, it's about characters caught up in those things.

OT has PLENTY of scenes of military, empire, rebel dude's going on about shit and clarifying the setting and worldview. Let's not pretend the OT is something it isn't

 

[RowdyReverb]

Except ANH isn't beholden to any plot continuity from previous movies.

With a series as long-running as SW, it's a constant battle not to drown in the baggage of plot continuity from prior films. I think that keeping their devotion to the existing lore to a minimum is essential for crafting a new and distinct trilogy of films.
I'm glad that they left a lot of details in the foggy periphery rather than get bogged down with explaining why everything is the way it is. It keeps it in the spirit of the OT where very little of the setting and backstory was actually explained and they can instead focus on telling a singular story.

OT has PLENTY of scenes of military, empire, rebel dude's going on about shit and clarifying the setting and worldview. Let's not pretend the OT is something it isn't

Funny how our posts are adjacent and opposite

 

[Dusktildawn48]

I'm freaking out. Oh man. Oh man.....

Enjoy the feeling man.

 

[JTripper]

I suspect they left a lot of the politics between the Republic and the First Order out because they would've gotten comparisons to the prequel's politics (even if they'd handled it all perfectly).

Plus I thought it was pretty close to self-explanatory in the opening crawl. The Republic and the Resistance are two different things. Leia runs the Resistance which is basically a rebel army. It's not a political group or anything. As for the New Order, it's clear that they're much smaller than the Empire ever was. The Empire had a Death Star, and fleets among fleets across the galaxy. The New Order has one giant, hidden planet that looks mostly barren with scattered bases where they train and station troopers who they kidnap from different parts of the galaxy.

I mean it must be smaller when they choose to train kidnapped soldiers instead of using clones.

 

[CartridgeBlower]

I'm glad they didn't. It's more in line with the OT approach of focusing on characters rather than explaining everything that's going on. That's the mistake the prequels made so we got all those insufferable expository scenes in the senate and Jedi council. Star War isn't about trade disputes and treaties, it's about characters caught up in those things.

You're confusing incoherent political babblngs of the prequels with proper world building and table setting that TFA needed much more of. ANH had a lot of this. It was very clear who each faction was, and what they wanted. This is not the case in the new film, especially when connected with ROTJ. ANH didn't need to connect to shit, so it wasn't a problem.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

That line completely caught me off guard. Like wtf, you guys could have both and be even stronger.

because the prequels poisoned the well on clones.

 

[Fata1moose]

Also glad the rumor about two Sith Inquisitors capturing Luke turned out to be false. That sounded lame.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

because the prequels poisoned the well on clones.

But the clone wars show made them cool though.

 

[More_Badass]

I agree. Besides the tech making some good to episodes 1~3, the fights felt too unnatural. They totally got it right in The Force Awakens, with much more brutal and natural fights, less acrobatic and more aggressive. The lightsabers also got a better treatment now, they felt like really powerful weapons capable of great damage, like when Kylo Ren touches it against Finn shoulders making him scream in pain.

The forest fight really sold the danger and physicality of the lightsabers, with them slicing through trees and melting the snow (pretty sure that happened when Rey forced Ren's saber to the ground).

 

[Funkyhamster]

Hmm, just got back from a 3-D showing. It was dumb fun, but seemed to be super paint-by-the-numbers. I liked Rei, and Finn had his moments. Overall it just seemed to move too quickly. Everyone identifying a weakness in the Starkiller over a 3 minute brainstorming session was weird. Also, people can really book in a limited time. The amount of ground they cover over 15 minutes was amazing.

I agree with all of this. The exact phrase "paint-by-numbers" came into my head after I saw it. Also, because the pacing was so fast, the events didn't seem to really have any impact, particularly in the second half.

 

[RowdyReverb]

You're confusing incoherent political babblngs of the prequels with proper world building and table setting that TFA needed much more of. ANH had a lot of this. It was very clear who each faction was, and what they wanted. This is not the case in the new film, especially when connected with ROTJ. ANH didn't need to connect to shit, so it wasn't a problem.

The world of TFA is built already. It's Star Wars. Further exposition and backstory, while potentially interesting, would have made the film less entertaining and more adult-oriented. It's designed to be a popcorn movie with fun characters and a rapid pace, not a Netflix Original Series

 

[soulluos]

They intentionally designed Rey to be OP:

http://imgur.com/a/RcqX6

On the other hand, I would love to see this in upcoming episodes.

 

[rokkerkory]

Rey is just a super star actress, cray is so good

 

[JTripper]

I love how Kylo's lightsaber is all sparks and gritty looking. It's clear that it was made through non-traditional methods. The sound difference between it and when they use Anakin's saber in the final fight is so apparent.

 

[140.85]

OT has PLENTY of scenes of military, empire, rebel dude's going on about shit and clarifying the setting and worldview. Let's not pretend the OT is something it isn't

Sure. But it's always brief and done in a way that is couched in what is playing out in the moment. Like when Vader is talking to his underling about holding leia and whether it would upset the senate in the hallway after the boarding in ANH. Likewise you get the same thing in TFA like when Finn explains some things about the Order while they are flying somewhere.

 

[Dead]

With a series as long-running as SW, it's a constant battle not to drown in the baggage of plot continuity from prior films. I think that keeping their devotion to the existing lore to a minimum is essential for crafting a new and distinct trilogy of films.
I'm glad that they left a lot of details in the foggy periphery rather than get bogged down with explaining why everything is the way it is. It keeps it in the spirit of the OT where very little of the setting and backstory was actually explained and they can instead focus on telling a singular story.

Funny how our posts are adjacent and opposite

The new trilogy should be distinct.

But when your movie opens with

EPISODE VII

There's a limit to how foggy things should be.

And while the OT crafted a world where it made you wonder about the background, the setting it presented on screen was still fully realized and believable. There is too much short hand in TFA for the sake of simplification.

 

[Jay Shadow]

I find this "Mary Sue" shit insulting to Rey's actress.

I just saw the movie for the first time earlier, and holy crap she's the most Mary Sueist Mary Sue to ever Mary Sue. And I generally hate when people throw that phrase around, cause people do over use it a ton. But it's used correctly here, and it's not an insult to the actress at all. It's just the material she was given, which she performed well. Hopefully she has some more well rounded material in the future movies.

 

[Blader]

Points 5 and 3 are definitely two of my biggest criticisms. 5 is typical JJ Abrams bad and lazy storytelling (Star Trek was horrible with this), and 3 is just...bad storytelling. I get that some people don't want scenes with senators, generals and whatever going on about shit, but this is one of the few times that exposition was needed in the movie. Screw off with that "its explained in the novel" crap

You don't need to read any novels or side stuff.

I guessing this was just another Kylo Ren concept art then

Wasn't this what everyone thought was a picture of evil Luke?

 

[meanspartan]

One of the criticisms really getting under my skin is the whole "Rey is just a Mary Sue" thing, made by Max Landis among others.

I think that's a horseshit thing to say and frankly, nobody would be saying it if Finn did all the same things Rey did. It didn't bother me in the slightest that she capably fought Ren or picked up on Force abilities so fast because:

1. In all likelihood, she is a Skywalker. Force powers are strong with her, and it literally "awakened" within her.

2. Given her brawl on Jakku, she clearly had fought before plenty of times, with weapons that seem like they give skills transferable to lightsaber combat. And I mean OT grounded lightsaber combat, not the stupid choreographed dance bullshit we saw in the prequels.

3. Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader. He is basically fronting, with incomplete training, an uncontrollable temper, and probably little actual combat experience that isnt against unarmed people he terrorizes. This isn't a criticism, I fucking love that they gave us a complicated and realistic character as a villain, and I think he will totally become much more of a threat.

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than countless other movie protagonists. In other genres or films, her talents here would seem bullshitty. But star wars is fantasy first and foremost, and there is nothing wrong in this context with Rey doing what she did.

 

[Gleethor]

also if they had clones available why didn't they use them in addition to the trained troopers?

Probably expensive as shit and The First Order ain't rich.

 

[Monocle]

Love these reactions. I saw it 2 days ago and yesterday and can't stop thinking about it

Same here. I'm so happy I loved it as much as I did.

One of the criticisms really getting under my skin is the whole "Rey is just a Mary Sue" thing, made by Max Landis among others.

I think that's a horseshit thing to say and frankly, nobody would be saying it if Finn did all the same things Rey did. It didn't bother me in the slightest that she capably fought Ren or picked up on Force abilities so fast because:

1. In all likelihood, she is a Skywalker. Force powers are strong with her, and it literally "awakened" within her.

2. Given her brawl on Jakku, she clearly had fought before plenty of times, with weapons that seem like they give skills transferable to lightsaber combat. And I mean OT grounded lightsaber combat, not the stupid choreographed dance bullshit we saw in the prequels.

3. Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader. He is basically fronting, with incomplete training, an uncontrollable temper, and probably little actual combat experience that isnt against unarmed people he terrorizes. This isn't a criticism, I fucking love that they gave us a complicated and realistic character as a villain, and I think he will totally become much more of a threat.

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than countless other movie protagonists. In other genres or films, her talents here would seem bullshitty. But star wars is fantasy first and foremost, and there is nothing wrong in this context with Rey doing what she did.

I agree with this. I didn't find Rey's rapid progress unbelievable at all. She clearly had the background for it, and factors like Kylo's instability and incomplete training completely justify the way their fight went. People are inventing reasons to complain that aren't supported by the movie itself.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

I'm now bummed JJ isn't doing the next two.

Don't be, Rian Johnson has the potential to make a worthy successor to Empire. It's IX you gotta worry about, even with the Rian script.

 

[Blader]

Probably expensive as shit and The First Order ain't rich.

Though you have to wonder, what's the budget on converting an entire planet into a superweapon

 

[Kssio_Aug]

One of the criticisms really getting under my skin is the whole "Rey is just a Mary Sue" thing, made by Max Landis among others.

I think that's a horseshit thing to say and frankly, nobody would be saying it if Finn did all the same things Rey did. It didn't bother me in the slightest that she capably fought Ren or picked up on Force abilities so fast because:

1. In all likelihood, she is a Skywalker. Force powers are strong with her, and it literally "awakened" within her.

2. Given her brawl on Jakku, she clearly had fought before plenty of times, with weapons that seem like they give skills transferable to lightsaber combat. And I mean OT grounded lightsaber combat, not the stupid choreographed dance bullshit we saw in the prequels.

3. Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader. He is basically fronting, with incomplete training, an uncontrollable temper, and probably little actual combat experience that isnt against unarmed people he terrorizes. This isn't a criticism, I fucking love that they gave us a complicated and realistic character as a villain, and I think he will totally become much more of a threat.

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than countless other movie protagonists. In other genres or films, her talents here would seem bullshitty. But star wars is fantasy first and foremost, and there is nothing wrong in this context with Rey doing what she did.

There's also a missing detail: Kylo Ren was hurt during his fight against Rey, and they made it pretty clear he was suffering from it.

 

[meanspartan]

There's also a missing detail: Kylo Ren was hurt during his fight against Rey, and they made it pretty clear he was suffering from it.

Agreed, though still if he were on Dart Vader's level it wouldn't have stopped him, hell he'd be toying with her like Vader did to Luke in ESB.

 

[Naughty_Doge]

Just watched it and I thought it was ok. Rolled my eyes at the obvious lack of imagination and creativity with the plot, I mean, a third Death Star? Really?

Besides killing off Solo the movie was way too safe and predictable.

 

[RowdyReverb]

Does Rey have a character flaw? Perhaps her persistent desire for a father figure?

Just watched it and I thought it was ok. Rolled my eyes at the obvious lack of imagination and creativity with the plot, I mean, a third Death Star? Really?

Besides killing off Solo the movie was way too safe and predictable.

They had to play it safe with the first entry and riff on the original trilogy heavily to win back people's trust after the prequel trilogy. It's as if they had to prove to viewers that those mistakes won't be repeated. I'm sure it will become its own beast with future entries.

 

[More_Badass]

They intentionally designed Rey to be OP:

http://imgur.com/a/RcqX6

On the other hand, I would love to see this in upcoming episodes.

Is that actual concept art? Damn, that's crazy

So she's basically the Light Side's Starkiller. Force Unleashed-levels OP

 

[Arnie7]

If Snoke is Plagueis could he bring back Han from the dead? Maybe tempt Rey to the dark side with the promise.

 

[Valjean Lafitte]

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than Luke was, FFS.

If Snoke is Plagueis could he bring back Han from the dead? Maybe tempt Rey to the dark side with the promise.

That could be cool.

 

[Speevy]

Does Rey have a character flaw?

She doesn't appreciate the value of 60 portions.

 

[Psychoward]

Probably expensive as shit and The First Order ain't rich.

They built a giant sun laser in to a planet and have the biggest fleet in the galaxy and aren't rich? bruh


they also implied the clones were readily available

 

[140.85]

Though you have to wonder, what's the budget on converting an entire planet into a superweapon

Was it the entire planet though? It looked like just key parts of the surface to me as well as the shaft. Keep in mind that even though it was much larger than the Death Star, that doesn't mean much since the Death Star was only as big as a small moon anyway. So I doubt star killer is as big as a type of planet you're imagining

 

[Kssio_Aug]

Agreed, though still if he were on Dart Vader's level it wouldn't have stopped him, hell he'd be toying with her like Vader did to Luke in ESB.

Yup! Sure! I think they made clear that he wasn't as strong as Darth Vader, at least not yet. But he was a strong character and would probably win the fight, or at least fight better, if he wasn't hurt by Chewie's gunshot. I agree with you, I don't think Rey was that much of an overpowered character giving all the circumstances and details that involves her and the lore.

 

[Altima]

Just watched it and I thought it was ok. Rolled my eyes at the obvious lack of imagination and creativity with the plot, I mean, a third Death Star? Really?

At least they shielded the entrance to the weak spot this time.......

 

[Speevy]

They should plant a tracking device on someone and let them lead the First Order to Luke Skywalker.

 

[meanspartan]

I'm cool with this film borrowing heavily from ANH all in all, IF AND ONLY IF the next movie does its own thing from here on out. Don't get me wrong, I totally expect it to generally thematically line up with ESB what with the First Order "striking back", but all the rest of the plotlines need to go in a very different direction.

I get why they had to lean heavy on the nostalgia for this one though, Star Wars needed to become Star Wars again. This movies is a 9 outta 10 for me. If they keep copying the OT too much in the next one, I will retroactively bring this down a point though

Lots of fun, well made film, loved the characters.

 

[golem]

So, has you guys talked about Rey's vision where she ends up in cloud city where Luke was fighting Vader?

Said this before but I feel like the visions she saw were visions associated with the Lightsaber and not necessarily with her. So she saw Luke's journey with the lightsaber (cloud city, etc) and it gave her a glimpse of her future with it as well

 

[Psychoward]

At least they shielded the entrance to the weak spot this time.......

and they addressed it too that it was a retread when they were in the resistance base


i mean the movie is basically ANH 2.0, if other entries are this similar to past films then yeah I think the complaints about it being safe will hold more weight but for now I'm cautiously optimistic of the rest

 

[RowdyReverb]

Is that actual concept art? Damn, that's crazy

So she's basically the Light Side's Starkiller. Force Unleashed-levels OP

Everybody is OP. We're seeing force abilities that I haven't seen in previous Star Wars films. Stopping laser bolts? Stealing memories?
I'm wondering if this awakening is like a rise of a more powerful generation of force-wielders

 

[Fata1moose]

Said this before but I feel like the visions she saw were visions associated with the Lightsaber and not necessarily with her. So she saw Luke's journey with the lightsaber (cloud city, etc) and it gave her a glimpse of her future with it as well

This makes sense, would also tie in to the children screaming being the younglings as I said.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Is that actual concept art? Damn, that's crazy

So she's basically the Light Side's Starkiller. Force Unleashed-levels OP

That's not Rey. It's Poe when he was going to be a force user.

 

[AxelFoley]

One of the criticisms really getting under my skin is the whole "Rey is just a Mary Sue" thing, made by Max Landis among others.

I think that's a horseshit thing to say and frankly, nobody would be saying it if Finn did all the same things Rey did. It didn't bother me in the slightest that she capably fought Ren or picked up on Force abilities so fast because:

1. In all likelihood, she is a Skywalker. Force powers are strong with her, and it literally "awakened" within her.

2. Given her brawl on Jakku, she clearly had fought before plenty of times, with weapons that seem like they give skills transferable to lightsaber combat. And I mean OT grounded lightsaber combat, not the stupid choreographed dance bullshit we saw in the prequels.

3. Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader. He is basically fronting, with incomplete training, an uncontrollable temper, and probably little actual combat experience that isnt against unarmed people he terrorizes. This isn't a criticism, I fucking love that they gave us a complicated and realistic character as a villain, and I think he will totally become much more of a threat.

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than countless other movie protagonists. In other genres or films, her talents here would seem bullshitty. But star wars is fantasy first and foremost, and there is nothing wrong in this context with Rey doing what she did.

Do you really believe this?

 

[Dalek]

Rey is no more a Mary Sue than Luke was, FFS.

No kidding. What a stupid argument. People literally have to pick everything apart.