[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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DragonSworne said:
So is there any official lore on the Knights of Ren? Have they been mentioned in the past?
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Nope.

There's a group in Star Wars Aftermath that are going round collecting dark side artifacts such as Vader's lightsaber which could be a group like the Knights of Ren, but that was still 30 or so years before the film.
 
ProudCanuck said:
Oh wow just imagine. the final shot is Rey fighting for Darth Plageous and Ren fighting for Luke in the same battle like scene as the final battle in the movie. Rey goes to the dark side because of too much power and Ren comes to the light because his mother dies (the opposite of what happens to Vader)
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It would be interesting twist, Rey succumbing to the dark and Ren turning to the light.

My only issue is that Ren is probably too far gone for that to happen...
 
Sorcerer said:
Isn't the typical of mostly boy oriented toy lines to short shrift the female action figures?
I know the movie made a noble effort to get females onboard (there is even Star Wars make-up, light side and dark side).

For all that effort the toy manufacture probably still felt Star Wars still is skewed to young boys.

Phasma is a special case, because you can't tell she is a female. In fact there was some controversy because her Halloween costume was actually made for little boys.

And I don't know if they are wrong, but its to soon to tell if Rey or Phasma has won a female audience over yet.
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My niece is 15. She doesn't like Star Wars (she prefers Star Trek), but she absolutely LOVES Rey. Her and my older sister were so stoked that we got a female Jedi finally in the movies (cartoons aren't the same thing).

I think as men, we underestimate how much women dig sci fi, fantasti, and action stories, and having a female character being just as cool and badass and heroic as their male counterparts is a big deal for them. My wife was practically bouncing in her seats when Rey Force Pulled the light saber and started to battle Ren. I think her exact words were, "YES."

I'm 100% positive Rey made an impact on girls and women. The question now is, will some closed minded parents buy Rey action figures for their daughters, or try and force gender roles onto them, by not letting them play with "boy" toys? I'm hoping I see a lot of little Rey's and Captain Phasma's next Halloween (even though Phasma's didn't get to do stuff, she looks too damn awesome).

I also liked how many female First Order and Resistance extras we saw sprinkled throughout the movie. Minorities too. As a black guy, it was awesome to see so many people of color in Star Wars (although rewatching the IV and V over the weekend, there were a few minority Rebel fighters in Jedi). And to have Finn as a lead character, badass, and potentially Force Sensitive just felt really, really nice. And Oscar Isaac is Guatamalan, so it's just really cool to have some representation and diversity. It's honestly a breath of fresh air.

Star Wars is for everybody. And that includes the hardcore fans and the casuals. I think many of us forget that it wasn't the hardcore geeks that made Star Wars a hit in 1977. It was always a mainstream property. As much as we'd like to take the credit for making Star Wars a multi billion dollar franchise, it wasn't all us.
 
Pai Pai Master said:
Adam Driver is perfect in the role. Most complaints I've heard about him have been pretty juvenile. "Emo Vader" etc
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Especially since the contrast between "cool, depp voiced masked Kylo Ren" and "emo whiny Ben Solorgana" is an intentional depiction.

The audience reaction is EXACTLY why he's wearing the mask.
 
The only casting I hated was General Hux. Looked far too young and innocent.
 
Henkka said:
It would be interesting twist, Rey succumbing to the dark and Ren turning to the light.

My only issue is that Ren is probably too far gone for that to happen...
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Yeah

I dont know how they would logically justify all that. Its already pretty dubious how Ben went dark. Seems pretty lame and simplistic so far

Figboy79 said:
My niece is 15. She doesn't like Star Wars (she prefers Star Trek), but she absolutely LOVES Rey. Her and my older sister were so stoked that we got a female Jedi finally in the movies (cartoons aren't the same thing).

I think as men, we underestimate how much women dig sci fi, fantasti, and action stories, and having a female character being just as cool and badass and heroic as their male counterparts is a big deal for them. My wife was practically bouncing in her seats when Rey Force Pulled the light saber and started to battle Ren. I think her exact words were, "YES."

I'm 100% positive Rey made an impact on girls and women. The question now is, will some closed minded parents buy Rey action figures for their daughters, or try and force gender roles onto them, by not letting them play with "boy" toys? I'm hoping I see a lot of little Rey's and Captain Phasma's next Halloween (even though Phasma's didn't get to do stuff, she looks too damn awesome).

I also liked how many female First Order and Resistance extras we saw sprinkled throughout the movie. Minorities too. As a black guy, it was awesome to see so many people of color in Star Wars (although rewatching the IV and V over the weekend, there were a few minority Rebel fighters in Jedi). And to have Finn as a lead character, badass, and potentially Force Sensitive just felt really, really nice. And Oscar Isaac is Guatamalan, so it's just really cool to have some representation and diversity. It's honestly a breath of fresh air.

Star Wars is for everybody. And that includes the hardcore fans and the casuals. I think many of us forget that it wasn't the hardcore geeks that made Star Wars a hit in 1977. It was always a mainstream property. As much as we'd like to take the credit for making Star Wars a multi billion dollar franchise, it wasn't all us.
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This is probably the number one thing that shuts my goofy theory down

No way are they gonna make Rey the villain as much as I would love that story
 
Waldini said:
Same here. But how will she be tempted? She lost Han already. When one has no friends you tend to "hook" up to someone you like pretty fast. His loss could've tipped her over ... yet, she remaind calm.

EDIT
... never mind. I was typing an entire "this-is-how-8-and-9-will-go" ... but then I realised that we know nothing.
han-solo-1d08eb2e-142952.jpeg


... but no.
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I dunno. Maybe she actually finds out that she is Snokes daughter or something lol. Or she was created in a lab by Snoke and Luke rescued her then ditched her on Jakku after witnessing her power not wanting to risk her going dark.. she probably is Lukes daughter though. I think thats the safest bet so far.
 
FeD.nL said:
Except he does in the novelization of the film.


Though it could very well be this entire story thread has been abandoned late in production and the book was already being printed.
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Father_Brain said:
Traces of it are in the film. Doesn't he ask "WHAT girl?" when he first hears about her?
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Correct. The imperial officer's mention of a girl really set him off. He knows something about her that we dont.

ProudCanuck said:
Did I miss the 'The force is calling, let it in' line?

Also I read online that 20 Minutes of the movie was cut. I hope we get a directors cut
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This is the director's cut. What you're hoping for is an extended cut. Which I find highly unlikely.

However if there is enough finished stuff on the bluray I'm sure an extended fanedit will show up eventually.
 
DrROBschiz said:
Ben needs to become a monster so that he defeat the real monster that is Rey

This is my last post about this I swear :p
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While I don't know if they'll go this route, and don't know what sort of dilemma they're going to go, I think it's very notable that at the end when Rey excepts the force, she draws her power from the dark side. When she completely dispatches Ren, she is clearly doing so out of immense anger (over his killing of Han, his injuring of Finn who at that point she doesn't know is still alive, and her attacking of him). While it's contrived for the two to be perfectly separated at the end by the planet's destruction so cleanly, I think one of the most notable things that hasn't really been touched upon greatly in this thread is that not only does it ensure Kylo's survival, but it also prevents Rey immediately slipping into the dark side more notably. If they weren't separated, based upon how they were acted and how the scene was directed, there really seems to be little doubt that Rey would have simply executed Ren while he was defenceless. I know the novelisation seems to portray the scene differently, in that she consciously chooses to allow him to live, but I think still having the lightsaber extended in the film, and slowing her advance towards him once they begin separating, is very suggestive that she'd have simply outright killed him. Now, whether people view this as suggestive of a 'dark side' like action is something else entirely, because after all I would imagine that the Jedi killed Sith at numerous points, but my thought on the matter really just draws on where she drew her power from in that moment, and Ren being defenceless as he laid on the ground awaiting her advance.

I think it could be an interesting direction for them to go for both Ren and Rey to feed primarily off the dark side of the force, and have one try stop the other, in how it distorts the cinematic universe's view that the light side is good, and the dark side is evil, but I think they will avoid having Rey ever truly using the dark side or becoming villainous (unless it's in 10/11/12) due to the significance of her character (from both her position in the new trilogy, and the significance she plays being the first female lead in a franchise and a desire not to have her become dependent on a male or have her position downplayed). I'm kind of curious how they'll progress regarding both Ren and Rey in relation to the force. If they go with Rey being tempted by the dark side continuously but managing to overcome it, they end up with a very similar situation to Luke. Maybe they'll go with a very neutral divide where she draws from both light and dark sides of the force to be a much more balanced individual than we've seen before. Maybe she'll become a dark Jedi. Maybe they'll just forego the idea of the force having sides and will just focus on her emotional and physical journey throughout the idea and won't bring tension in from how she draws on the force, but rather how she uses it. I just find it interesting to see which way they'll go, as the most obvious (being tempted by the dark side and overcoming it) has somewhat of a 'been there, done that' sort of feel to it, but that's not inherently a bad thing if it's executed well.
 
Ether_Snake said:
Nah Ben is evil for real, I think she was dumped on Jakku because she had lost her memory and power. Kylo tells her to join him in TFA so no way is he the real good guy. Not happening.
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Has it been brought up that Maybe it was Kylo that kidnapped young Rey from Luke (she being his daughter), made Luke think he killed her, but in fact Kylo dropped he off on Jakku or with some family that eventually dropped her off on Jakku? We know Kylo struggles with conflict in this film, it might have been even stronger of a pull when he messed up Luke's Academy. He couldn't go through with killing his little cousin. Or maybe he thought he killed her but she managed to survive, and that's why she has amnesia.
 
LookAtMeGo said:
I think he is Kylo Ren because he is one of the Knights of Ren. I imagine all the knights are ____ Ren. So I call him Kylo because Ben is also confusing.
Is Ren the new Darth maybe?
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Interesting theory, not sure if that works as well as 'Darth' followed by a given last name, but hey... it's a new series.
 
Rey can be tempted by being told she killed her family and the other jedis, and possibly being told they can be brought back to life, but first being pulled by fighting and killing Kylo thinking he killed them. She kills him after he tells her the truth, boom, darkside, runs away.
 
ProudCanuck said:
Personally I thought Ren was MUCH better in scenes without the mask than the ones with
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Not sure if it was the sound-mix in the theater I watched it, but Ren's dialog with the mask sounded hollow, like it was recorded with a really cheap mike. Or in the least it almost screamed "recorded in a sound booth", the ambience was off.

Anyone else noticed this?
 
SillyNonsense said:
However if there is enough finished stuff on the bluray I'm sure an extended fanedit will show up eventually.
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I'm pretty sure we'll get some sort of deleted scenes on the BluRay. Again, they have to follow the PT-OT Blu-Rays now :)

I hope they really dont kill any more OT characters. He'll, if Rian Johnson kills of Luke in Episode 8 without him every igniting his saber I'll be pissed.

And Ben Solo redeeming himself? Nah. He's trying to perfect Darth Vader. Vader was redeemed thanks to his son's interference. Solo tried to interfere and lure Ben back but ... well, we all know how that happened. Kylo Ren is how Palpatine wanted Vader to be ...
 
Paganmoon said:
Not sure if it was the sound-mix in the theater I watched it, but Ren's dialog with the mask sounded hollow, like it was recorded with a really cheap mike. Or in the least it almost screamed "recorded in a sound booth", the ambience was off.

Anyone else noticed this?
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He has a vocoder in his mask, just like vader, of course it sounds off
 
Solo said:
Honestly, its the collagen/botox. Her upper lip barely moved, which made her come off as stoic and emotionless.
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The truth is she's had a very difficult life dealing with mentail illness and additction. She was Leia 100% with this role and I hope as her role expands in the upcoming film that they start giving her more lines that aren't just meant to explain to the viewers what's happening. Her reunion with Kylo and with Luke are going to be cornerstones of the next few films. I'm 100% it'll be her that triggers Kylo's redemption.

Plus, she and her dog Gary are freaking hilarious. I love watching the interviews she's done for this film. Almost all of them have gone viral.
 
The One Who Knocks said:
While I don't know if they'll go this route, and don't know what sort of dilemma they're going to go, I think it's very notable that at the end when Rey excepts the force, she draws her power from the dark side. When she completely dispatches Ren, she is clearly doing so out of immense anger (over his killing of Han, his injuring of Finn who at that point she doesn't know is still alive, and her attacking of him). While it's contrived for the two to be perfectly separated at the end by the planet's destruction so cleanly, I think one of the most notable things that hasn't really been touched upon greatly in this thread is that not only does it ensure Kylo's survival, but it also prevents Rey immediately slipping into the dark side more notably. If they weren't separated, based upon how they were acted and how the scene was directed, there really seems to be little doubt that Rey would have simply executed Ren while he was defenceless. I know the novelisation seems to portray the scene differently, in that she consciously chooses to allow him to live, but I think still having the lightsaber extended in the film, and slowing her advance towards him once they begin separating, is very suggestive that she'd have simply outright killed him. Now, whether people view this as suggestive of a 'dark side' like action is something else entirely, because after all I would imagine that the Jedi killed Sith at numerous points, but my thought on the matter really just draws on where she drew her power from in that moment, and Ren being defenceless as he laid on the ground awaiting her advance.

I think it could be an interesting direction for them to go for both Ren and Rey to feed primarily off the dark side of the force, and have one try stop the other, in how it distorts the cinematic universe's view that the light side is good, and the dark side is evil, but I think they will avoid having Rey ever truly using the dark side or becoming villainous (unless it's in 10/11/12) due to the significance of her character (from both her position in the new trilogy, and the significance she plays being the first female lead in a franchise and a desire not to have her become dependent on a male or have her position downplayed). I'm kind of curious how they'll progress regarding both Ren and Rey in relation to the force. If they go with Rey being tempted by the dark side continuously but managing to overcome it, they end up with a very similar situation to Luke. Maybe they'll go with a very neutral divide where she draws from both light and dark sides of the force to be a much more balanced individual than we've seen before. Maybe she'll become a dark Jedi. Maybe they'll just forego the idea of the force having sides and will just focus on her emotional and physical journey throughout the idea and won't bring tension in from how she draws on the force, but rather how she uses it. I just find it interesting to see which way they'll go, as the most obvious (being tempted by the dark side and overcoming it) has somewhat of a 'been there, done that' sort of feel to it, but that's not inherently a bad thing if it's executed well.
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I always thought the theme should be Balance

Its clear that there were villains that used both the Dark Side and Light side

Dark Being murder, anger agression and Light being self righeousness, mind control and manipulation

Balance being accepting that Light/Dark are two pieces to the whole requiring acceptance of each. That sounds too deep and kind of dismisses the classic Light Vs Dark story though
 
LookAtMeGo said:
I can see her struggling between light and datk much the same way Luke did but I dont see her going full dark.
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That scene where she's blocking Ren's blade and closes her eyes before unloading on him, where her face is flickering between the colour of the two blades, is pretty clear foreshadowing in my opinion. And she was straight up ready to murder Ren when she had to stop on account of the planet falling apart around them.
 
Ether_Snake said:
Rey can be tempted by being told she killed her family and the other jedis, and possibly being told they can be brought back to life, but first being pulled by fighting and killing Kylo thinking he killed them. She kills him after he tells her the truth, boom, darkside, runs away.
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Or by finding out that Luke, her father, abandoned her for selfish reasons. There's some anger and hatred for ya.
 
LookAtMeGo said:
Solo?
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Sorry, keep forgetting that 'Ren' isn't his last name but a moniker, like the other poster I guess its the new 'Darth'. I just see alot of people calling him 'Ren', which obviously works only as long as he's the only 'Ren' in the movie. If they introduce other 'Rens', then of course we'd have to refer to him strictly as Kylo.
 
Lights and Waves said:
The truth is she's had a very difficult life dealing with mentail illness and additction. She was Leia 100% with this role and I hope as her role expands in the upcoming film that they start giving her more lines that aren't just meant to explain to the viewers what's happening. Her reunion with Kylo and with Luke are going to be cornerstones of the next few films. I'm 100% it'll be her that triggers Kylo's redemption.

Plus, she and her dog Gary are freaking hilarious. I love watching the interviews she's done for this film. Almost all of them have gone viral.
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There better not be a redemption for Ben, fuck that shit. Kills innocents on Jakku, destroys the rebellion, kills his father
 
Fliesen said:
Especially since the contrast between "cool, depp voiced masked Kylo Ren" and "emo whiny Ben Solorgana" is an intentional depiction.

The audience reaction is EXACTLY why he's wearing the mask.
Click to expand...

still dont think driver is a good fit. Not so far at least.
Not to say hes a bad actor, thats not the point. He was just not what i expected.
 
In the official poster if you look quickly it's like rey is holding a double blade lightsaber. I think that's a foreshadowing.
Rey is good at everything. Great pilot, great warrior, strong with the force. Sounds familiar?

Finn holding luke's saber i also think it's foreshadowing. If the saber is connected to rey why is finn with the saber in the poster?

My guess is:

Snoke realizes his toy is broken and luke got the better one. Tries to seduce rey.
Finn inherits luke's saber. Luke trains him so he can try to bring rey back.
Kylo is torn between light and dark but wants to prove he is the best dark jedi.
Finn is the hero of this trilogy. And luke dies somwhere along the way.
 
Henkka said:
Or by finding out that Luke, her father, abandoned her for selfish reasons. There's some anger and hatred for ya.
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She already knows she has been abandoned, and she found Luke, so she'd be happy either way. I really don't think she is Luke's daughter.
 
Shuggananas said:
He has a vocoder in his mask, just like vader, of course it sounds off
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yes ofcourse, that's not what I'm saying though. It didn't have ambience, it didn't fit into the soundmix (at my theater), it sounded flat, as if recorded on a bad mike, or played back on a mobilephone speaker. It was the same with some other "post production" voices. IIRC I thought the Maz also sounded "off" at times.

So I'm leaning towards the soundmix messing up at my theater then.
 
Lights and Waves said:
The truth is she's had a very difficult life dealing with mentail illness and additction. She was Leia 100% with this role and I hope as her role expands in the upcoming film that they start giving her more lines that aren't just meant to explain to the viewers what's happening. Her reunion with Kylo and with Luke are going to be cornerstones of the next few films. I'm 100% it'll be her that triggers Kylo's redemption.

Plus, she and her dog Gary are freaking hilarious. I love watching the interviews she's done for this film. Almost all of them have gone viral.
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I thought Carrie did okay in TFA, better than I thought she would, but giving her a bigger role would be a terrible mistake.
 
Steiner84 said:
still dont think driver is a good fit. Not so far at least.
Not to say hes a bad actor, thats not the point. He was just not what i expected.
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I think that's the point. He's not evil enough to look like a villain, hence the internal struggles between him wanting to be good. Though I think the face wrecking he got from Rey will change that next episode.
 
FriendlyGoat said:
Yep, though I don't know if he made it clear if all the Knights of Ren get that title. It could be only the Master of the Knights of Ren inherits the title. That being said, people occasionally called Vader Darth, so who knows.
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I only recall Obi-wan calling him that 'only a master of evil Darth'. I think that's because Darth was actually his first name, and not a sith title, until the OT sequels fleshed out the story?
 
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