[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up
- Thread starter Bobby Roberts
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Yeah, it was actually both a gamble and a play-it-safe move, since nobody can beat Vader at the big bad game. Building foundations for interesting characters, rather than presenting an established badass, was pretty smart in my book. It was one of the few things that really felt fresh.
You're assuming I missed any of this, which I didn't.
For the first point, he helps Poe escape because he's his only option to escape the First Order, to that point we're on the same page, but then immediately afterward him being so happy about shooting Stormtroopers with him and it being the main thing that makes Poe and him "best buds" all of a sudden is incredibly thin.
For the second point, he instantly lights up when Luke is mentioned and he wants to try to help the droid get to the Resistance, once it's clear that the droid'll make it there and that Luke will be found, he wants out. He still wants to help the resistance, but he doesn't think they'll succeed. He obviously thinks the resistance are the good guys, he's just a coward about it.
Over Jakku, he totally takes joy in blowing up other stormtroopers and bonds with Poe over it. On the planet he totally takes joy in watching stormtroopers getting bombarded by Poe(which can't even be justified by "Oh he likes his freedom"). Hell, he even cheers after a pass kills a bunch of stormtroopers and tie fighters. He acts like a Resistance fanboy.
ersocaster
Member
Not only was Kylo hurt, but he is struggling with his position. He constantly feels the pull to the light side. He is under constant duress.
I don't want another uber bad ass villain. Having someone we could actually relate to, and who doesn't kill half the cast is a nice departure.
I don't want another uber bad ass villain. Having someone we could actually relate to, and who doesn't kill half the cast is a nice departure.
I fully believe that if they did another straight up Vader, everyone would just be complaining about the fact that they re-used Darth Vader and he isn't as good.
I love Kylo Ren, he immediately impressed me in the first half with how savage and powerful he was but it wasn't until the second half that I really was sold on him.
edit:
Exactly, he was very relatable in that we clearly understood his internal struggle and just how immature he was.
IdreamofHIME
Member
I hope this doesn't happen. We don't need another old man vs CGI midget lightsabber fight. Yoda vs Dooku and yoda vs palpatine were bad enough.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
KENOBI KID THEORY QUESTIONS
1) If Kathleen Kennedy had never said "This is a generational saga" would you be a little more inclined to leave that possibility open? Basically, is your only resistance to the theory due to the knowledge that the story has to be focused on the Skywalker family going forward?
2) If it turns out Luke's wife/significant other WAS a Kenobi child, does that clear the Kenobi Kid theory up for you enough to roll with it?
3) If Luke had adopted the girl early on, would the fact she was his daughter but not by blood somehow make Kennedy's words false or fake to you? Basically, would you consider the "Skywalker lineage" to be bullshit because it now includes a non-blood relative moving forward, even IF she claims the name Skywalker for herself as she moves forward along her destiny?
1) If Kathleen Kennedy had never said "This is a generational saga" would you be a little more inclined to leave that possibility open? Basically, is your only resistance to the theory due to the knowledge that the story has to be focused on the Skywalker family going forward?
2) If it turns out Luke's wife/significant other WAS a Kenobi child, does that clear the Kenobi Kid theory up for you enough to roll with it?
3) If Luke had adopted the girl early on, would the fact she was his daughter but not by blood somehow make Kennedy's words false or fake to you? Basically, would you consider the "Skywalker lineage" to be bullshit because it now includes a non-blood relative moving forward, even IF she claims the name Skywalker for herself as she moves forward along her destiny?
Yeah, I expect him go ala Ben Kenobi/Yoda.
Kor of Memory
Member
Does the announcer at the beginning ever go away? I don't care for him for some reason. I feel like every time he finished that opening monologue he should be asking me "Would you like to know more?"
Also, I'll stick it out for all the episodes. I don't like skipping stuff. I have time to watch at least 4 episodes a day, so I should be able to tear through them pretty quickly.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
my post from another thread
Rey was already a capable fighter. Unlike training, she has had to survive on her own her entire life.
Rey from the moment she had her visions was afraid of Kylo Ren. You can see it when she was firing wildly at him in their first meeting and when she woke up and saw him starring at her. After Han's death she was angry and afraid.
Only when she was reminded of the force did she finally calm down. She used the force to calm her mind (something Yoda has been telling us for ages) allowing her to fight like she normal does, only with some Force help. She was no longer afraid and in control of her emotions and that's what allowed her to use the force to the fullest.
The force isn't someone who can swing a lightsaber better. It helps, but Yoda, the greatest of them all, focused on controlling your emotions, not your skills with a lightsaber. And that's why Rey one in the end against the conflicted Ren.
Sure you don't have to like it, but I like that we get a villain who actually feels real, has room to grow (he is also a Skywalker), and has taken out a main character both old and new, and he's not even a Jedi (sith) yet.
I agree about Phasma, though I expect she'll have more to do next episode,
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
It makes so much sense for Rey to be a Skywalker that the only reason i can see people wanting her to be a Kenobi is for the sake of a twist.
Everything, including the novelization, hints heavily that she's a skywalker. This kenobi stuff is nearly nonsensical
Everything, including the novelization, hints heavily that she's a skywalker. This kenobi stuff is nearly nonsensical
No, he's there because they wanted to be able to essentially do an opening crawl in a way that a young audience who isn't proficient at reading yet would be able to understand. It's also supposed to be reminiscent of war reel announcers from WWII.
Shuggananas
Banned
It's just weird that it would be that obvious
demosthenes
Member
I liked it because through everything we've only ever heard of the lure of the dark side. It was great to see "lure of the light".
Fan Theory:
What if Rey is Sheev/the Emperor/or some other sith lords daughter/blood relation. The dark side want to get her back (maybe to use her power or she's the Siths very own chosen one like Anakin was to the Jedi) but Luke adopted her then decided to hide her once Kylo Ren turned. So in essence the theme is that the dark side took one of their kids and the jedi (Luke) took one of theirs, each fighting their own birthright - plays on dynamic greyness of good or bad.
Did some quick browsing of this thread, and it's good to see other people are thinking what I am Re; Rey. I don't think she's Luke's daughter, but related to Obi Wan somehow, and possible even Palpatine.
I theorize this solely based on her british accent and OP-ness. All the Skywalkers sound American, even Kylo Ren. If Luke did have a daughter, it's strange Leia wouldn't know about it. Not 100% sure on the timeline of how everything got messed up, but there would have at least been a couple of years of peace where Luke would've been able to take baby Rey around and introduce her to her aunt. Also her being his daughter is almost too easy. It's as the movie wants you to think that so it then pulls the rug out from under you...
I theorize this solely based on her british accent and OP-ness. All the Skywalkers sound American, even Kylo Ren. If Luke did have a daughter, it's strange Leia wouldn't know about it. Not 100% sure on the timeline of how everything got messed up, but there would have at least been a couple of years of peace where Luke would've been able to take baby Rey around and introduce her to her aunt. Also her being his daughter is almost too easy. It's as the movie wants you to think that so it then pulls the rug out from under you...
Kor of Memory
Member
Yeah. I guessed during the first episode that he was a replacement for an opening crawl...
Oh well, not that hard to get over, thankfully.
At what point should I watch the Clone Wars movie? After the cartoon series? Or does it fit somewhere in the middle?
I think it's because it's pretty shallow for a story. It's something that everyone said when they announced the leads and groaned because it was so dammed obvious.
She probably is Luke's daughter, but it's probably one of the weakest aspects of the story since it would be a "revelation" that people have known about since before we had a trailer.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
So, Rey's theme is the one I like most thus far.
Inferno313
Banned
You know that accents aren't genetic, right?
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
but she grew up in space UK, it makes sense that she would take on the accent of those around her.
Just because one of the revelations is blatantly obvious doesnt mean that we're out of twists. And i don't mind her being Luke's daughter, it makes more sense than being part of the Kenobi family. Luke would obviously try to train his daughter along with his nephew, it makes sense given the force flashback she has when touching the lightsaber, and it makes sense that her quick rise to power would really upset her cousin more so than usual, even if he isn't completely aware of their being related.
It's all about how they handle it.
1) Yep, the "generational saga" bit really translates to "Skywalker kids wanted, both good and bad" in my mind.
2) Yeah.
3) If she's part of the "Skywalker lineage", she won't be an adopted child: I don't think Kennedy would go for it. Given the generational theme I would consider it pretty unlikely. Wouldn't make her words "false" to me though. Would be pretty cool to have a Muggle Skywalker actually.
They might be in the star wars universe! Watched the phantom edit yesterday, and Anakin and Padme sound like yanks, but she was brought up in nobility around brits. Also, why not just make the actress speak with an American accent? The guy who plays Finn is a brit and they have him speaking like an american. I think there's something to it...
I think they took the wrong path. 30 years later, Star Wars needed another iconic villain to captivate the audience like Vader did...There was nothing compelling about Kylo to me, but then I'm a father with two kids, I get enough spazzing out each day
The funny thing is all the marketing up until the movie was painting him as the iconic villain also. I kinda feel lied to
Totally disagree.
I absolutely LOVE Kylo. I find it fascinating the way his abilities to use the force, all though incredibly powerful and violent, are still in their infancy because of poor training. He only knows how to use his anger to fuel his power - destroying the control room and especially punching his wound repeatedly to fuel his rage to get power. Its so bad ass. Yet, he is still very immature regarding the force and thats what makes him an incredible villain is his sheer potential to be one of the most powerful people of the Dark Side. I guarantee we are going to see a VERY different Kylo in episode 8.
Inferno313
Banned
You call the idea of Luke being her father "shallow" but "twists" and "reveals" are inherently shallow story-telling though, they work once, then that's it.
The movie takes place before the show. It's how Anakin met Ahsoka. It's pretty bad, but if you want to watch it for the sake of completion you might as well just watch it now.
It wasn't intended to be a movie - it's actually four episodes smooshed together.
Charles Foster Kane
Rosebud
So Hamill is kind of like those 30 year olds playing teens in Grease?
Theodoricos
Member
To me the movie alone is enough proof that Rey is Luke's daughter. It's especially more obvious on the second viewing. Maz practically spells it out in the scene after Rey touches the lightsaber. That's far less of a stretch than saying that she's a Kenobi.
I don't think it should even be seen as a "twist" or a "revelation", much like how Han's death wasn't supposed to be a surprise. Once he called out to his son, we all knew what was going to happen (or even back when Leia told him to bring him home). The focus of the scene is on a bittersweet moment between father and son, not on whether Han will die or not.
I don't think it should even be seen as a "twist" or a "revelation", much like how Han's death wasn't supposed to be a surprise. Once he called out to his son, we all knew what was going to happen (or even back when Leia told him to bring him home). The focus of the scene is on a bittersweet moment between father and son, not on whether Han will die or not.
Raven117
Member
I see what you are saying, but my bet is we see not only the development of the heroes (like any other adventure movie), but we are going to see a very real descent of Kylo. Something a Star Wars movie has really yet to explore. Sure, we saw Anakin turn to Vader, but he was already trained as a Jedi...we saw him make the choice...Get owned by Obi-Wan, throw on a helmet, done...Vader.
Now we see a villain struggling to become a villain (like heroes struggle to become the hero). The stage is set for a very interesting VIII if they decided to execute on some of those themes.
demosthenes
Member
30, wow. I wonder how long he's been dark then, how long since he massacred the jedi, and how long Luke has been missing for.
Presumably Vader will be showing up in the upcoming spinoffs anyway, so it would be pretty overload if they had him featured in the main films as well.
The idea that they're playing Luke as a father as the "reveal" is considerably worse, since it's something we've been thinking since before we had a trailer.
Atleast a twist works once, this doesn't surprise at all.
To be frank, we don't really know jackshit how our science compares to the Star Wars universes made up horseshit.
the announcer never goes away, but he grows on you. gives it an old timey radio drama feel.
Raven117
Member
Ah, but the twist may be who the mother is...and the story of how the last Jedi defied the order's teaching and became romantically involved. (Last we heard when this happened...didn't work out so hot).
Well he definitely does not look older than 53-55. Can't wait to see him fight
Kylo must be one of the "victory kids" mentioned in Before the Awakening, conceived after Endor. I wonder if it was directly after Endor or if it was later. First time we see Leia is in Shattered Empire, but that's only a few days/weeks after, so there wouldn't be time for a bump yet.
gutter_trash
Banned
Kenobi theory makes no sense since he was pretty much celebate in prequals and a hermit in ANH
how can he can conceive a child after death?
how can he can conceive a child after death?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
There's a 20 year period on Tatooine that's unaccounted for.
So it makes sense that at some point in that 20 year period where he's not going anywhere near Luke Skywalker, that something coulda/mighta happened.
Keep in mind: Skywalker kid theory seems to work more smoothly, and make more innate sense so as to keep the story moving forward as fast as possible (which Abrams/Kasdan prioritized), so it's always the most likely option.
Accents and science?
And...your calling a science fictional universe a bunch or horseshit?
shortsFortallPeople
Banned
Old Ben was secretly Darth Plagueis. He tried to bring back the love of his life, Yaddle, but in his failures a normal and fertile female human woman came to be instead. She went off and had an english child and abandoned her on a garbage planet. TFA starts soon after
He had a love interest during the clone wars (Satine, Queen of Mandalore), as well as doing some decidedly unjedi stuff on Tatooine according to the new canon.
exactly my thoughts.
gutter_trash
Banned
the funniest thing about Vader as that he didn't seem too fleshed out in ANH when compared to his more imposing presence in ESB
and how do you conceive a child after death?
Wow! thank you very much for the list!
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