[SPOILERS] Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Thread #2) - One Thumb Up

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labx said:
I the previous thread I was asking about this screen with the voice of Luke's. This scene was cut off.

from: 26 Unanswered Questions of ‘Star Wars: The Force Awakens’: We Have the Answers
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That's Maz giving Luke's saber to Leia.

It was earlier in the thread, but apparently she was supposed to go back to the Rebel base with the team (to the point the actress was actuallysupposed to be in those group shots for the Starkiller plan), but they changed it once they realized Maz really has nothing to do at the base.
 
Rydeen said:
To be fair to Williams, I think it has less to do with his age and talents and more to do with how Abrams edited the movie. Because of the way the movie is paced, there wasn't really any moments for the movie to build and swell into any new themes because of how quick the pacing was. It's clear Williams had to work hard to even get Rey's theme in there when she leaves the downed Star Destroyer because the scene quickly cuts away from the quiet moment of her by herself within a few shots.

The way George directed and edited, it gave Williams more wiggle room to build the music with how the shots lingered.
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I don't really think that's fair at all, although I also didn't mean to suggest that I thought Williams wasn't talented anymore. Still, the composer should be able to adapt to the pace of the film they're scoring, that's their job. Williams even had an assistant composer and conductor on this one. It's just not a very interesting score.

Bobby Roberts said:
yeah, I've been listening to it for awhile now. I like it. I don't love it. And I'm a MASSIVE fucking John Williams fan. But this is the least of the 7. I think it's because Williams just really isn't built for those types of scores anymore, and hasn't been for awhile. Even in Sith, you could feel him going into a different direction, artistically, and the scores he's done since bear that out.
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RotS is really the peak of his "fuck it, I'll fill this part with some free xylophone jams" habit, which this score at least doesn't feature too much of.
 
Just got back from my first viewing. My initial impressions of it were that it was exactly what I expected, but it's a good setup for the future films.

Also, Finn is the best
 
I will say it's amazing how this film has opened my mind to Star Wars speculation again. It feels like it did after I saw ANH - ESB - ROTJ the first time. It's amazing
 
Inorigo said:
That's Maz giving Luke's saber to Leia.

It was earlier in the thread, but apparently she was supposed to go back to the Rebel base with the team (to the point the actress was actuallysupposed to be in those group shots for the Starkiller plan), but they changed it once they realized Maz really has nothing to do at the base.
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but the scene is deleted, no?
 
XANDER CAGE said:
I don't really think that's fair at all, although I also didn't mean to suggest that I thought Williams wasn't talented anymore. Still, the composer should be able to adapt to the pace of the film they're scoring, that's their job. Williams even had an assistant composer and conductor on this one. It's just not a very interesting score.
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He did adapt, by not having time to build new leitmotifs and sticking to cues from the original trilogy and quick action beats for what Abrams was doing. It's like the difference between when Hans Zimmer phones in a score for generic Michael Bay style action picture # 648 versus something timed and meditative like Interstellar. One type of movie lends itself better to a sweeping score than the other.
 
Rydeen said:
He did adapt, by not having time to build new leitmotifs and sticking to cues from the original trilogy and quick action beats for what Abrams was doing. It's like the difference between when Hans Zimmer phones in a score for generic Michael Bay style action picture # 648 versus something timed and meditative like Interstellar. One type of movie lends itself better to a sweeping score than the other.
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There's only one cue ripped directly from the OT in the film, so I think that's a bit of a poor characterization. I also think it's pretty unfair to shift the blame to Abrams when it's not like the other Star Wars films, barring the deadening middles of the PT movies, are ponderous and introspective. I have complete faith in someone of JW's caliber to be able to craft an interesting score for a director who prefers more rapid cutting, and I don't think he entirely delivered here.

I mean for one thing, not all of the previous famous Star Wars motifs are the slow, meditative ones. There's no Battle of Endor here, no Asteroid Chase, no Duel of the Fates. Williams knows his way around action scenes.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
There's only one cue ripped directly from the OT in the film, so I think that's a bit of a poor characterization. I also think it's pretty unfair to shift the blame to Abrams when it's not like the other Star Wars films, barring the deadening middles of the PT movies, are ponderous and introspective. I have complete faith in someone of JW's caliber to be able to craft an interesting score for a director who prefers more rapid cutting, and I don't think he entirely delivered here.

I mean for one thing, not all of the previous famous Star Wars motifs are the slow, meditative ones. There's no Battle of Endor here, no Asteroid Chase, no Duel of the Fates. Williams knows his way around action scenes.
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Not even a Battle of Heroes or even a Trade Federation theme,

I think the old cues and themes were fantastically used and re-purposed but yeah any new cues and themes kinda felt invisible and inaudiable.

It wasn't so much bad as it was unremarkable and not really noticeable, which is weird for a JW Star Wars score.
 
Rydeen said:
He did adapt, by not having time to build new leitmotifs and sticking to cues from the original trilogy and quick action beats for what Abrams was doing. It's like the difference between when Hans Zimmer phones in a score for generic Michael Bay style action picture # 648 versus something timed and meditative like Interstellar. One type of movie lends itself better to a sweeping score than the other.
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Eh, I don't think I agree. I like the score better than most here but there are still plenty of slower scenes that had plenty of room for new Leitmotifs.

And the action scene queues (specifically The Falcon and Rathars) are pretty similar to some of the music from the PT. Especially the Coruscant chase in AotC though I prefer the Ep 7 work to that scene (probably my least favorite bit from Williams in all of Star Wars).

Snoke, for example, is a major missed opportunity. If his theme was comparable to the Emperor's theme then I think it would have boosted the impact of his character.

I really don't think it was Abrams' style that threw off Williams. That's just how he scores these days. Hell Giacchino's score for Super 8 was probably more similar to old school Williams than Williams' modern day work.
 
XANDER CAGE said:
There's only one cue ripped directly from the OT in the film, so I think that's a bit of a poor characterization. I also think it's pretty unfair to shift the blame to Abrams when it's not like the other Star Wars films, barring the deadening middles of the PT movies, are ponderous and introspective. I have complete faith in someone of JW's caliber to be able to craft an interesting score for a director who prefers more rapid cutting, and I don't think he entirely delivered here.

I mean for one thing, not all of the previous famous Star Wars motifs are the slow, meditative ones. There's no Battle of Endor here, no Asteroid Chase, no Duel of the Fates. Williams knows his way around action scenes.
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It also has a lot to do with the condensed schedule this movie was on. Williams started working on the main themes for the other movies way earlier in production, and based on what we know about the turnaround on Force Awakens, I doubt he was given the same amount of time.

I'm really saying a lot of this because people are using their opinion of the score in this specific movie to say that Williams shouldn't do Episode VIII, which to me is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'd gladly take a middling Williams score over an imitation.

CrichtonKicks said:
Snoke, for example, is a major missed opportunity. If his theme was comparable to the Emperor's theme then I think it would have boosted the impact of his character.
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Snoke had a theme
That was also in Revenge of the Sith during the 'Darth Plagueis the Wise sequence...
 
Rydeen said:
It also has a lot to do with the condensed schedule this movie was on. Williams started working on the main themes for the other movies way earlier in production, and based on what we know about the turnaround on Force Awakens, I doubt he was given the same amount of time.

I'm really saying a lot of this because people are using their opinion of the score in this specific movie to say that Williams shouldn't do Episode VIII, which to me is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'd gladly take a middling Williams score over an imitation.
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Actually I'm pretty sure Williams was given a lot of extra time on Episode 7.

Were there any interviews on why Williams didn't do Bridge of Spies? Because I can't help but think if he doesn't have time or desire to do a Spielberg movie anymore than the dude is pretty much all but retired.

Rydeen said:
Snoke had a theme
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I know that. I'm saying that the theme isn't very good...
 
Rydeen said:
It also has a lot to do with the condensed schedule this movie was on. Williams started working on the main themes for the other movies way earlier in production,
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This isn't accurate at all. Williams started work on this film much sooner than he did any of the other films, and had exponentially more time to work on the score than he did on any other Star Wars movie.

Even with a pause in the middle of his schedule to get a pacemaker put in (which, I mean, that might have affected the quality of this score, absolutely) he still had something like 6 months to work on this thing.

Normally he gets like 6 to 8 weeks.
 
Merry Christmas Eve gaf

aR2kXsB.gif
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Just saw it, thought it was really good. Only criticisms I can think of is the story kind of felt like a retread (another Death Star? Really?) and Ren was a bitch lol
 
RadioActiveLobster said:
If you are a fan of Cinema Sins, Jeremy has his "review" up.
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Never heard of or seen his stuff before, but it was a good review. I'm still baffled at the decision to go with another death star finale, and he points out the parts toward the end that got rushed or given not enough time; that last editing pass is definitely noticeable in the last act.

Hawkian said:
If you feel like it, watch and listen at 0.5 speed on YouTube. It's unambiguous https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXRZd5vkdo&feature=youtu.be&t=20m27s
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Yeah, that's it. "Face me-curses!"
 
Watched it a second time. REALLY enjoyed it the second time around. Might be in my top 3 all-time Star Wars movies now, potentially surpassing Jedi. Love the hell out of the scene where the lightsaber jumps into Rey's hand. The swell of Williams' score...so good.

Two "issues" I had this time though.

1. Movie logic - they find Rey THAT easily on such a massive base? (Starkiller near the end) I guess it's as believable as all the other convenient movie logic scenes where characters find each other or locations.

2. The sun went out while Han and Ren were on the bridge...but it still took a ton more time before the weapon was "fully charged."

So, what's Rey's relation?
-Luke's daughter
-Han's daughter/Ren's sister
-Obi-Wan's granddaughter
-No one's daughter

I wonder who abandoned her when she was a child...

Also, seems like Ren had a connection to the old dude at the start of movie on Jakku. Talk of family and such.
 
Alucard said:
Watched it a second time. REALLY enjoyed it the second time around. Might be in my top 3 all-time Star Wars movies now, potentially surpassing Jedi. Love the hell out of the scene where the lightsaber jumps into Rey's hand. The swell of Williams' score...so good.
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After rewatching RotJ today TFA is definitely #2 in the franchise for me (before the rewatch I probably would have put it 3rd). Been a long time since I've seen Jedi and it didn't hold up very well since last viewing.
 
Ferrio said:
Haven't explained it yet I believe, so ya other sources.

I read the wiki trying to find info on it, but there was nothing. I did find this though:
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Speaking of tracking devices, why don't First Order Stormtroopers have them?
 
Is there any chance we might get a Director's Cut version? I would love to see Constable Zuvio, more Maz, and the other scenes that were supposedly cut.
 
Sawneeks said:
Is there any chance we might get a Director's Cut version? I would love to see Constable Zuvio, more Maz, and the other scenes that were supposedly cut.
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There are deleted scenes that should be on the home release, but it doesn't sound like any kind of new cut is coming.
 
Alucard said:
Also, seems like Ren had a connection to the old dude at the start of movie on Jakku. Talk of family and such.
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He's a new character that is being written to have been involved with the rebellion during the OT days. He is a follower of the Church of the Force, and knows Leia and the others (though I don't know how well). So in knowing Leia and Han, he too knows Ben Solo. Probably saw him at least once as a child given Kylo's line "look how old you've become."
 
Morrigan Stark said:
Say, why wasn't Leia using the Force? Any chance she'll show off some cool Force powers of her own down the line?
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Somebody mentioned it earlier, but it seems like based off her position in the film as well as other material, she was way too pre-occupied with being a leader to tackle all that Jedi stuff.

Just didn't suit her. Quite frankly, I prefer her this way.
 
Morrigan Stark said:
Say, why wasn't Leia using the Force? Any chance she'll show off some cool Force powers of her own down the line?
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At 50+ years old, I'm sure that ship has sailed.

Leia's no Jedi, but the new EU stuff is leaning pretty hard into being a pretty competent military figure and that lines up with her being the resistance general here.
 
Morrigan Stark said:
Say, why wasn't Leia using the Force? Any chance she'll show off some cool Force powers of her own down the line?
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It's possible! She's definitely Force sensitive, and in the old EU used it on different occasions. It'll be interesting to see where this new direction takes her and her relationship with the Force. I doubt she'll do much fighting but she can definitely sense.
 
Morrigan Stark said:
Say, why wasn't Leia using the Force? Any chance she'll show off some cool Force powers of her own down the line?
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It was shown that she knew was able to sense when Han Solo was killed and her child fully embraced the darkside. Other than that she doesn't seem to be very in tune with the force.
 
Morrigan Stark said:
Say, why wasn't Leia using the Force? Any chance she'll show off some cool Force powers of her own down the line?
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She being able to sense Han's death shows she knows a thing or two about the force, but I don't think she'll be fighting on the ground in the future, someone's gotta lead the resistance.
 
SwolBro said:
It's definitely made by adults, Disney executives to sell toys and that's exactly the problem. At least Lucas was genuine in his attempt. This is just corporate Hollywood shit.
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Boy, is this ever wrong. George was criticized by numerous staff on the original films for selling out and putting toy sales above all else. He shot down the early drafts for Return of the Jedi that had Han heroically dying largely because it would have reduced Han's action figure sales. He also changed the Wookies that were supposed to be in the Endor battle to ewoks to cute the movie up and pander to kids. The concept artist who had to create the ewoks said he was actually disgusted to have to do it.
 
Crossing Eden said:
It was shown that she knew was able to sense when Han Solo was killed and her child fully embraced the darkside. Other than that she doesn't seem to be very in tune with the force.
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She and Rey felt each other's grief over Han's death at the end of movie. That's probably the best scene her sensitivity's ever been put to use in, too.

I'm sure she's plenty sensitive, but being sensitive and taking to lightsaber combat are probably reasonably different things.

And like MMarston says, she's busy, it's not like Luke is around now, etc.
 
soundtrack was weak, but it still bests many recent movies so at the time it was hard to complain

if you go star wars rank tho then yeah, it shows that it was flimsy
 
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