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What were Nintendo and Atlus thinking when making #FE ?

-Horizon- said:
And all those "otaku" games are on handhelds and sony systems. If this was really focus tested, they would've known that audience isn't on wii u.

But Atlus still chose this theme anyway.
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To be fair nothing except Nintendo games really doesn't have an audience on the Wii U.

Here is the thing not every game will appeal to everyone. That's life.

It seems they had no idea of the game concept when they announced it.
 
Well, I think the game looks fantastic. Nintendo is very clearly going after a certain crowd they lost, not sure if they will succeed...

By the way, it is confirmed that it's coming to the west, right?
 
AcademicSaucer said:
I was expecting permadeath against dick monster demons and killing God with aether when they announced it. Idk if that would have sell more tho, its on Wii U after all.
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I'm actually a little surprised by how many people were expecting perma-death.

It's not something thats even remotely feasible in an Atlus JRPG. Party members die all the time. It's why debuffs and buffs and elements are so important.

And if it had been SMT characters in an FE style SRPG there's not nearly enough of them that you could run FE style permadeath without potentially killing all of them by about 3 chapters in (the largest number of main characters in mainline Persona games is ~6 (A law and chaos hero and heroine , the MC and the true Heroine and the average is closer to 4) and there's a grand title of 5 games .

You could maybe do perma-death with demons but to some extent that seems like taking the mickey given that a typical SMT ally demons life cycle involves being levelled up until it learns all its skills and then getting fused and then getting resummoned whenever they'd be useful for fusion.
 
If I had to guess, the development went through a lot of hurdles because they never really had a good vision for what they wanted. It didn't help that the game was announced before they even knew what they were making. Ended up making something which was probably more of a pet project for some of the designers rather than something which would really find an audience.

That latter bit is probably what draws me to the game because I'm not exactly into idol culture or whatever, but I want to play it just to get inside the developers' heads a bit. It's interesting.

Boy, this would have been a game I'd have loved to read the Iwata Asks for, more than just about any other. There are sure to be a lot of fascinating stories.
 
silvermember said:
To be fair nothing except Nintendo games really doesn't have an audience on the Wii U.

Here is the thing not every game will appeal to everyone. That's life.

It seems they had no idea of the game concept when they announced it.
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I agree with that. The Wii U just made a bad situation worst, especially with new IPs having to climb out of a deep pit on their own (the success of splatoon vs what happened to the wonderful 101 AND now this).

And Nintendo being in panic mode during the announcement certainly didn't help. They really should've kept it as Atlus x Intelligent Systems and ended it there with no photoshopped characters from SMT and FE.

Overall though, I'm glad we got the game we did, something that wasn't really chained down to either IP but could be its own game that takes some influence from each.
 
As others have said it looks like someone wanted to make a game about idols and didn't really care about any of the two franchises.
 
Was expecting some FE style gameplay but with SMT demons and with a SMT IV type setting and characters.

Was not expecting an Idolmaster game.

Not by a long shot.
 
Nightengale said:
This.

Otaku market is small and niche when it comes to absolute volumes in terms of units sold.

If devs cater to otaku market thinking it'll sell, they need to fire whoever is in charge of biz strategy.

Honestly? I'd sooner believe idol and otaku stuff are in the games because the developers themselves are fans of idol and otaku stuff.
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Actually what was mainstream in Japan has cratered because people are working more for less money while otackus and their female counterparts don't give a Damn about the economy and haven't stopped buying. As a result it is the fringe cultures are now what sells the most in Japan.
 
One of them probably came to the other and said "Hey, lets make a game that looks amazing" and the other was like "sure, ok.

I dunno I mean I wasn't there but I imagine that's what they were thinking.
 
Caronte said:
Yeah, I don't get these Persona comparisons.
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I've played SMT, FE and Persona and like all 3 (FE less than the others, since Permadeath makes me go meh). And I get the Persona comparisons (teenage/young adult cast, slice of life elements, real world setting, summoning alternate beings to fight monsters in dungeons based off a certain theme in a mystical otherworld).
 
We have jRPG about fantasy, sci-fi, school life, post apocalypse, etc.

now we got people in entertainment industry using power of music, soda CM, super hero show, crime drama, school love comedy, food network and more to save the world from Fire Emblem characters gone nut.


It's very very cool
unique and refreshing theme
 
I actually think the theme is pretty interesting, I just wish if they had taken anything from Fire Emblem, that it would have been an SRPG instead. I will end up playing this regardless, though.
 
Elaugaufein said:
I know, but P3 and P4 are both by Atlus, so I was just pointing out its hardly an unexpected thing. And I can see why too, it's relatively easy to find an excuse to drop you into combat in a fantasy setting but it takes a bit more explanation as to why their are suddenly monsters in a world that's supposed to at least superficially resemble the modern one.
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I don't really dig the Persona games so like...
 
shadow2810 said:
Actually they are now advertising it as Atlus x FE
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I think that's the issue, since Atlus is thought of as the Persona company these days and with all the spin-offs they've done for that series in the past few years, it's not that much of a stretch to see why, especially with #FE being aesthetically in line with those games. It's judging a book based on its cover, sure, but Atlus really seems to like using the same book cover, if you catch my meaning.

But yeah, echoing the observations about them making a game that has its audience on different platforms, as well as Nintendo doing a bad job of attracting the console RPG crowd back on their hardware for a few generations now.
 
After seeing the Idol stuff I thought the game was going to be trash tbh, but after seeing game play last week it restored some faith for me, it looks quite a bit like a Persona game I'll check it out when it comes here as long as Nintendo of America doesn't go crazy with it's pointless censorship crap.
 
I think the game would have done better if they never announced it as SMT x FE. This is another case of a publisher announcing a game waaaaay to early.
 
GhostTrick said:
That's the problem here. Mixing SMT and Fire Emblem with Idols didn't worked at all. It would be like a Dark Souls mixed with Idolmaster game. It won't work at all. Or basically, putting nutela on a pizza.In the end, you end up talking to no one, because SMT or FE fans don't care about Idols and Idols fans don't care about SMT or FE.
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Are you sure about that? Because the way I see it, a game about a group of Idols trapped in a Dark Souls style world, needing to escape and fight monsters and huge bosses with the power of music and probably some jolly cooperation, does not seem all that impossible to get working. Have the player use a portfolio of five different characters, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, as well as the ability to summon in the rest of the band, be it NPC or multiplayer, and, well... You get Idol Souls.

It'd blatantly turn into a Magical Girls game, but those do work pretty well with a horror/dark theme, just ask Madoka, so I don't really see how incompatible that would be.

I'd give it a look for the blatant theme mismatch that somehow seems to work anyway, at least. Like Kingdom Hearts has Donald Duck and Goofy fight basically Satan without it seeming weird. If that can work, then Idol Souls could work.
 
I remain cautiously optimistic, but slightly wary.

The character aesthetic isn't really my cup of tea, but that's just me. Most of the other aesthetics are impressive, like the menu and motion design.

Gameplay looks like it could be fun, and seemingly grows out of what I've enjoyed from my time with Persona 4.

I guess I'm wary because I'm not a huge anime fan or otaku, and the way that the camera ogles the female characters is a bit off putting to me personally. I don't mind sex in games, but it's nice when it's contextualized and goes a bit beyond the male gaze of the director's "camera".
 
pizzacat said:
I'd like to know what happened in development when they were like "let's make it persona instead"


tbh I've only seen one gameplay video but that's what it seemed to me, I'll still get
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Yeah, real quick, watching gameplay from the first boss fight or whatever it was, it looks pretty much exactly like Persona with Araragi's voice actor, and an action bar that negates any sort of speed attribute and instead just taking turns punching each other.

McNum said:
Are you sure about that? Because the way I see it, a game about a group of Idols trapped in a Dark Souls style world, needing to escape and fight monsters and huge bosses with the power of music and probably some jolly cooperation
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XS5LK.gif
 
So what's the gameplay? It's a Persona-lite but with Fire Emblem characters in the modern world? Am I the only one who thinks that sounds kind of sick?
 
It was just another risk that Nintendo was willing to make for the Wii U. Same with Bayonetta 2.

As for the game, I've heard good things, but I'm not really a fan of idol anything so I'll probably pass. Considering what I've seen, I am interested how the Treehouse localizes it.
 
They were thinking about capitalizing on the newly brought popularity of Fire Emblem Awakening and combining it with SMT elements. Both games have a long history, why not make a game that takes inspiration from both.

I was hoping for more it leaning towards Fire Emblem, grid based, strategy, etc etc. Though from what I've seen, I'll take a Persona-esque JRPG with Japanese idols.

entremet said:
Seems more like Persona X FE than SMT X FE.
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Once they announced "Performas" I was like, yup Persona X FE. Though having Fire Emblem characters as Personas is a cool idea.

They need to actually make Persona x JoJo's Bizarre Adventure. I want to see Star Platinum and Izanagi duke it out.

shadow2810 said:
Actually they are now advertising it as Atlus x FE
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It's more accurate I suppose.
 
Funding a SMT dungeon crawler and a new exclusive Atlus IP.
The game still looks good, but will likely need help from western sales if they name it something not awful.
 
It seems like Atlus wanted to make a game they really wanted to make and Nintendo let them make it. That's about as far as it went it seems and I'm glad about it because it looks like the freshest RPG I've seen in years. One of the reasons why I like P3 and P4 is because they feel contemporary. They're grounded in a world that feels more familiar, more relatable than just about anything else on the market. The main characters are kids with normal high school problems.

#FE seems like it has some of that going for it but instead of high school, it's about the entertainment industry. Considering I don't know squat of what that industry is like in Japan, I'm interested in finding out even if it's ultimately just a surface level understanding of how a person gets to become an actor or a singer.

It's a fresh setting. The art-style is banging. The combat is pretty good based on impressions. I'll take this over another post-apocalyptic, demon hunting game which Atlus usually makes and we're getting more of this year.

Thinking about it, I honestly think it's enough to get anyone excited. All of that is backed up because the people behind it have some awesome games in the past. Why would you doubt them?

However, by reading some of the posts in this thread, I can see I was being naive.
 
Ninjimbo said:
It seems like Atlus wanted to make a game they really wanted to make and Nintendo let them make it. That's about as far as it went it seems and I'm glad about it because it looks like the freshest RPG I've seen in years. One of the reasons why I like P3 and P4 is because they feel contemporary. They're grounded in a world that feels more familiar, more relatable than just about anything else on the market. The main characters are kids with normal high school problems.

#FE seems like it has some of that going for it but instead of high school, it's about the entertainment industry. Considering I don't know squat of what that industry is like in Japan, I'm interested in finding out even if it's ultimately just a surface level understanding of how a person gets to become an actor or a singer.

It's a fresh setting. The art-style is banging. The combat is pretty good based on impressions. I'll take this over another post-apocalyptic, demon hunting game which Atlus usually makes and we're getting more of this year.

Thinking about it, I honestly think it's enough to get anyone excited. All of that is backed up because the people behind it have some awesome games in the past. Why would you doubt them?

However, by reading some of the posts in this thread, I can see I was being naive.
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Yeah, I can superficially understand the otaku-bait complaints, but that's definitely not how I've perceived the game. To me it actually feels like there are some fresh, hip vibes coming out of this game IMO and some themes with decent potential, coming from a company that has consistently delivered satisfying games. I feel like if it didn't have the 'stigma' of crossover there would be a lot more buzz for the game.

The main thing that makes me not want to buy this is no off-tv play. I guess the battle menu looks really visually dense, maybe it would have been kind of shitty on the gamepad, but I still would have liked it.
 
The game is much more interesting to me for doing something new and unexpected instead of being some non-canon JRPG character crossover with flanderized characters from both series.
 
I was interested originally, but it looks like there is just way too much otaku pandering and pervy shit in there if the import thread is anything to go by. Really unfortunate.
 
-Horizon- said:
I agree with that. The Wii U just made a bad situation worst, especially with new IPs having to climb out of a deep pit on their own (the success of splatoon vs what happened to the wonderful 101 AND now this).

And Nintendo being in panic mode during the announcement certainly didn't help. They really should've kept it as Atlus x Intelligent Systems and ended it there with no photoshopped characters from SMT and FE.

Overall though, I'm glad we got the game we did, something that wasn't really chained down to either IP but could be its own game that takes some influence from each.
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But Intelligent Systems has nothing to do with the product.
 
Originally they were going to make a standard cross-over title mixing FE and SMT ideas, characters, mechanics and the like. But at some point early in development, they figured that instead of making a normal cross-over, they could something inventive with the FE and SMT IP.

So, after experimenting with ideas and concepts for a bit, they started full development on a JRPG late 2013 and it became something very different compared to FE and SMT's past titles.

The game still has elements of both IP front and center, but its wrapped within something completely unique and different, commentating on an aspect of JP culture (pop music and idols) that the developers want to explore.

Considering the games western response, it was clearly the wrong move for a world-wide release (as many NA/EU gamers hate JP anime-looking games; just look at any Vita game thread where people call the game garbage without giving a second glance or insulting people horridly for liking a game). But, Nintendo was willing to give this a shot and they were forced to localize it as they want money back from the project.

I think the game looks great honestly :). The visuals are bright, colorful and detailed. The music is solid considering the topic its covering. The battle system and dungeon design look solid. The game as a whole looks interesting, as its taking tried and true gameplay systems but wrapping it around something completely unique and creative idea wise.

Looking forward to its western release and very interested with how Nintendo localizes the project.
 
I wonder how much the reception would have iimproved without the idol stuff and the unappealing character designs.

I think without the focus on J pop, idols and swimsuits, people might have shown a bit more interest. They're what I find offputting.
 
Seems kind of unfair to criticize these companies for not knowing that this particular mashup of themes would not be well received.

-First Atlus decides to combine one of their dark, urban RPGs with dating sim mechanics, and it's a huge success.
-Later they decide to combine an erotic thriller with a block-pushing puzzle game, and it's a huge success.
-Meanwhile on the Nintendo side, they add otaku-pandering romance into their previously straight-edged fantasy strategy game, and it's a huge success.
-Then they decide to make a multiplayer arena shooter, despite everyone saying there is no audience for that genre on Wii U, and it's a huge success.
 
RK128 said:
Considering the games western response, it was clearly the wrong move for a world-wide release (as many NA/EU gamers hate JP anime-looking games; just look at any Vita game thread where people call the game garbage without giving a second glance or insulting people horridly for liking a game). But, Nintendo was willing to give this a shot and they were forced to localize it as they want money back from the project.
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Your comment is accurate about the history of #FE, but here you're ignoring something very crucial: the game didn't have a negative reception from just the Western audience, but the Japanese audience as well. From Japanese blogs, ever since the game was revealed on April 1, 2015, fans mocked it and you would see JP videos on YouTube getting significantly downvoted. Its sales in Japan are proof of the negative feedback this game got from the core audience; it's not just an English audience thing.

Nintnedo shouldn't have ever released a teaser implying what the game wasn't. Other than that, perhaps showing off the game as a bright poppy fanservice project—and stuff like the character designer talking about a character's boob size in initial blog posts—could have been scaled back; that made it seem like it's mainly what the game's about.
 
Wii-U is a tough sell in Japan. Would have probably done better on 3ds. I think most of us have transferred to playing these games on portable devices since it usually requires a lot of hours to play them. I don' think you can compare sales of a game between the 3ds/wiiu.

I am still looking forward to giving it a try. I think it looks nuts.
 
FluxWaveZ said:
Your comment is accurate about the history of #FE, but here you're ignoring something very crucial: the game didn't have a negative reception from just the Western audience, but the Japanese audience as well. From Japanese blogs, ever since the game was revealed on April 1, 2015, fans mocked it and you would see JP videos on YouTube getting significantly downvoted. Its sales in Japan are proof of the negative feedback this game got from the core audience; it's not just an English audience thing.
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Didn't know the game is struggling in JP......

My guess that it wasn't really due to the style of the game in JP but more so JP gamers being annoyed with the project not being what was advertised.
 
The weird pop idol aesthetics aside, its a pretty great game. Although the influences from Fire Emblem is definitely not very obvious. Persona is definitely the biggest influence.
 
RK128 said:
Didn't know the game is struggling in JP......

My guess that it wasn't really due to the style of the game in JP but more so JP gamers being annoyed with the project not being what was advertised.
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Doubtful given the game's sales performance; fundamentally, it's just not a game that would appeal to Wii U owners aesthetically. Then again, this game would mainly be appealing to the core audience, so those are the people you wouldn't want to piss off with a title like this since it's not meant to have mass appeal.

"Struggling" is also kind of an understatement. The game did horribly.
 
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