BadAss2961
Member
The backlash awakens. In another couple months this will be the worst movie ever.
Star Wars VII doesn't respect the original trilogy (spoilers)
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ryutaro's mama
Member
They've all regressed. That makes sense to you? Y/N
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Gotcha. Sorry about that then. It's getting late and my head is getting fuzzy.
They destroyed the Republic home world on Coruscant, I believe.
After the highest of highs (defeating the embodiment of evil), there's nowhere to go but down.
I don't see the realistic forward momentum of lives fully lived as regression.
excelsiorlef
Member
The FO did the equivalent of wiping out Washington DC while the President was in the White House and both the House and Senate were in session.
The entire Senate and a good chunk of their fleet. It's all in Hux's Nazi speech.
Hosnian system, Hosnian Prime to be specific.
FlashbladeGAF
Member
Yeah, In which scene or character trait from the OT, did any of the core 3 look like they would be great at having a normal mundane life.
Ghost Slayer
Member
Then Episode VIII comes out and people will say this is the best SW ever. The cycle continues
I have the same feeling. I personally found the movie enjoyable until Han Solo's appearance and then it just began to fall apart.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Hyperbole much?
The consensus will never be that TFA is worse than the PT.
But rather than join the discussion, you'd rather minimize it. Congrats.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
When I first saw ROTJ as a kid, I thought it was lame that there was an old dude ordering Vader around. He was a badass who could choke people with his mind.
Besides, Palpitine had a master once, remember? Darth Plagueus, whom he mentions in ROTS.
Hell, maybe Snoke is Plagueus.
Oops, thank you.
Damn, I was hoping it was Coruscant so maybe Jar Jar would be dead.
Sorry, I'm not 100% boned up on the new film yet.
excelsiorlef
Member
Luke didn't regress he's just on a completely different path. Leia has continued the fight which is a logical outcome as she was always more of a military commander type anyway. Only person who regressed was Han amd given what happened that is 100% in character and he's still a better person then he was before.
Well the movies have (half of which people complained about incessantly). There was tons of content in Star Wars not at all about the Skywalker family. Hell some of the best stuff that ever came out of star wars had little to do with Luke, or the rebellion. It may have taken place during an entire different time period.
It's an entire Galaxy, you can have more than just one story about one movement. There's nothing stopping them from having the star wars "feel" whiLe not being about Luke or Han or Leia or any of that. I know he they did it. Nostalgia sells, always will, and Disney knew for damn sure more people would see the film if it had characters from the OT than if they didnt.
This. Like he would just walk out there and correct his psycho son with some stern words as if Leia put a Jedi mind trick on him.
BadAss2961
Member
I actually have no clue since i'm not even a fan. But I like reading thoughts about the movie.
I'm just noticing the same cycle every film of this magnitude goes through these days. It only gets worse from here.
I'm not really seeing why Luke and Han having adapted poorly to peacetime, or being in a worse position than they were at the end of Jedi is disrespectful to the OT honestly.
Just because they overcame particular challenges decades ago does not mean they will never fail to overcome similar changes, or that their lives need to be on constant positive trajectories.
People fail and succeed at various times in their lives, and the story of men and women who fight in destructive conflicts and flourish, only to have difficulty adapting to peacetime and new lives is neither unbelievable or disrespectful a development.
It really reads like you didn't enjoy The Force Awakens, which is fine, but trying to hide your dislike behind the notion the film "disrespected" the previous movies seems like a cop out.
Just because they overcame particular challenges decades ago does not mean they will never fail to overcome similar changes, or that their lives need to be on constant positive trajectories.
People fail and succeed at various times in their lives, and the story of men and women who fight in destructive conflicts and flourish, only to have difficulty adapting to peacetime and new lives is neither unbelievable or disrespectful a development.
It really reads like you didn't enjoy The Force Awakens, which is fine, but trying to hide your dislike behind the notion the film "disrespected" the previous movies seems like a cop out.
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
My view on TFA depends a great deal on how Episode VIII turns out. TFA did a lot of the functional work to bring the audience back and lay the groundwork for the new generation. It's only worth it if the next film is great and we get something more inventive, another remix off the originals will not do.
Very much this.
There's a couple things there. The planets that got bopped represented the entire Republic Federal government and its entire (or damn near close to) fleet. However in one of the books, it seems that Mon Mothma, leader of the Republic, had undertaken a demilitarization campaign after the rebellion won. So systems were responsible for most of their own local defense.
We might imagine that going forward the remnants of the Republic (basically the Resistance and Leia I guess) racing the Order in a quest to recruit or conquer systems that have military capacity of their own?
ryutaro's mama
Member
Cheers to that. I'm gonna end this conversation for the night. Hopefully it's still going on in the morning. I really hope Rogue One is good and different enough so that Disney will take more risks with the franchise in the future. It's an amazing galaxy and tons of room for potential, but not if they keep the focus of the movies on one family, and one group (the Jedi and or Sith).
ryutaro's mama
Member
Right on.
You're still my favorite post-NBA-GAF poster. The Jimmy Butler of this Era, if you will.
Astral Dog
Member
So many people responses seem to imply the world of Star Wars is more dark than it appears, with constant conflict, corruption, death and hopelessness. interesting, you would not think that from George Lukas words.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
A decapitating strike like that shouldn't be fatal unless they can follow it up with more and more strikes. The speech from Hux said that the weapon would bring an end to their fleet, not that that specific strike would. Thousands of systems, quadrillions of sentients, and presumably a fleet not exclusively parked outside their capital city. The FO fleet better hope it's up to the task of conquering everything really really fast because otherwise it's gonna get crushed by glorious industry!
Nah it's SW, they'll need to defeat Snoke in a duel to make the FO lose
innervision961
Member
Maybe, and this is a stretch, but maybe we don't know the whole story yet until the next (2?) movies are out. I'm assuming Luke will answer some questions then.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Playing your game I'll say "yes" of course it makes sense to me.
Though I'm not sure your definition of regression.
Leia is a general now, still fighting for what she believes in. She wasn't a general before, her rank was pretty low, so that sounds like a promotion to me. Also she Gained a lot of senatorial power, and before she was a princess without a kingdom. So, again doesnt sound like a regression to me. She also got married and had a child - again, doesn't sound like a regression, those are presumably things she wanted. 34 years ago she couldn't have predicted her son was going to go crazy and kill her husband... So that sounds like SHIT HAPPENS to me. Her and Han having s rocky marriage? That was written on the wall in every scene 34 years ago.
Luke was the last Jedi and built a presumably large Acacemy, training a bunch of new Jedi. Most people 34 years ago didn't even know the force was any more then a myth, so that sounds like progress to me - even getting the word out about Jedi's and gaining the trust of parents to send them children when the only force wielded was a Pyscho mystic dressed in all black terrorizing the Galaxy... Damn sounds like to me he was doing a mighty fine job. Could he have predicted Ren going crazy and whoever the hell Snoke is coming in and killing everyone? More SHIT HAPPENS. Him retreating to find ancient Jedi temples is something we will be to learn about later because the rest of what he was doing is just speculation... He was in the movie for 30 sec!!!
Han went "home." That makes a ton of sense to me, he was looking for something that made him feel sane in a world where his son kills children. He acted exactly what I would have expected given his character 34 years ago. Is that regression? The sheer fact the stood up to his son instead of running away from him, shows me the exact opposite... That's character growth.
A LIFETIME has happened to these people.
Far more we don't know about than we do. Just because it isn't what you EXPECTED and WANTED for them, doesn't mean it isn't mysterious and exciting... Use your imagination a bit. That's what good story telling does... Gives us 15 pages of discussion, and 2 more years before the page turns.
Bravo.
excelsiorlef
Member
Umm ok that's not really a retort. I explained why it's not regression., it isn't. Luke has not regressed he's simply gone down a darker path and neither has Leia she's become a military leader, Han did but in this movie he's still very muched changed, a firm believer in the Force now, and his actions make sense.
So yes you're completely inaccurate to call change regression.
BadAss2961
Member
Ready to drop 40 in a half in this year's playoffs thread.
Care to elaborate on these dozens of asspulls?
ProfessorLobo
Banned
People keep saying this, but I seriously doubt a deep and compelling back story is going to unravel as it did for the OT.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Good Job Bob
Member
Why not?
ryutaro's mama
Member
Those threads on tape delay?
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
I agree. True disrespect of the OT and regressions for its characters would involve Han either being caught and murdered offscreen by one of the people to whom he was indebted or drinking himself into an early grave to silence the forever-echoing death scream of Greedo. Meanwhile, the Skywalker twins give in to their shameful lust, their union bringing to life a deformed monstrosity powerful enough to blink life out of existence but only focused on amusing itself by creating sculptures from the strange brown "clay" that keeps falling from the hole in its backside.
Luckily, TFA avoided this completely.
kame-sennin
Member
I think it would have been really interesting if they pulled a Zeta Gundam and had the First Order be the plucky rebels and made the New Republic a corrupt, semi-fascist regime.
It's like poetry.
It's like poetry.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Might as well leave the thread if you're only looking for people to agree with you. Discussions are pretty useless only one-sided.
Mirrors work better.
excelsiorlef
Member
A decapitating strike like that shouldn't be fatal unless they can follow it up with more and more strikes. The speech from Hux said that the weapon would bring an end to their fleet, not that that specific strike would. Thousands of systems, quadrillions of sentients, and presumably a fleet not exclusively parked outside their capital city. The FO fleet better hope it's up to the task of conquering everything really really fast because otherwise it's gonna get crushed by glorious industry!
Nah it's SW, they'll need to defeat Snoke in a duel to make the FO lose
He literally said this is the last day of the Republic, he knows their fleet is stationed where the Senate is. He says this strike will wipe out the Senate and fleet. There is now a massive power vacuum.
I did not say fatal. I said chaotic and power vacuum. Fatal would mean a new Empire, the failure to wipe out Leia's group, the declaration of war that that first strike represents and the loss of Starkiller base should ensure that they are not in position to just take over. It's gonna be a fight with no clear power. So unlike the OT which had an Empire and the PT which had a Republic this one should have no clear ruling group.
Like with Dark Knight, it'll just be weird loud people. Most will still adore the film, as it deserves.
I think the shadow of the prequels looms large in TFA as well. As much as it apes the OT, you just know that this wouldn't follow on that story in this way if the prequels didn't exist and we didn't get that backlash against Lucas that tells us exactly what defines 'Star Wars' for the fans.
My fiancee never watched the OT so we did a rewatch last year, but i didnt make her go through the prequels. TFA's fault were a lot more apparent to her because she didn't need it to 'fix' what got broken in the prequels.
excelsiorlef
Member
He's not even explaining how they've regressed, he just keeps claiming it.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Well, people are gonna debate and theorize it over and over again most likely, one or more of the prevailing theories will be true so people won't feel like they were shocked or whatever.
It's like not like, say, GRRM where he never lets his readers feel like there are safe characters.
SW will likely follow one or more of the same "poetry" story archs, just like the ones before it. I don't think it will sneak up on anyone, narratively.
ryutaro's mama
Member
There is not point in continuing this discussion with YOU.
We are at an impasse.
I said nothing about the rest of the thread.
I made it crystal clear what I thought. Maybe you are stuck on the word "regress".
Whatever word you want to use to describe it, the Core 3 characters have taken huge steps back from the progressions they made in the OT.
Eh, that sounds more like a cheap cliche to me.
Tesseract
Banned
aging does that to you, boro
Michael F. Assbender
Banned
Obviously the purpose of TFA was as much to patch and avoid the pitfalls of the past as it was to build for the future. Which is actually something I admire most about it. It had every reason in the world to be an incoherent mess, but other than a question mark here or there, it was pretty damn good.
ryutaro's mama
Member
My issue isn't even that 1 or 2 of the main are in shittier states now.
It's that all of them are. It's just fucking weird when I think about it and makes me realize what didn't sit right with me.
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