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[ClosingADoor]

You mean the UK which is only accepting 20,000 refugees by 2020? Only about 12% of the 4 million displaced Syrians are in refugee camps anyway.

I didn't say I agreed with the numbers. But the way it is handled is better, since you don't break up families, have a better ratio of men and women, can help the most vulnerable, don't force people to make a dangerous journey and already filter out people who wouldn't get asylum anyway from other regions.

 

[Kunan]

Good retort.

I'm getting tired of being told all these problems are normal and the insinuation that people questioning them are all right wing racists.

Agreed. We need a better plan than relying on the inner good in all people and demonizing people who criticize such a naive approach to planning and response. Sorry, that just doesn't cut it in the real world.

 

[daniels]

Agreed. We need a better plan than relying on the inner good in all people and demonizing people who criticize such a naive approach to planning and response. Sorry, that just doesn't cut it in the real world.

Average people got called racist for speaking out against uncontrolled mass immigration of refugees but in the end they were right. So yes naive and it has consequences.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

Something the current policy actually is responsible for. If you help people directly from refugee centers like the UK, Canada and US are doing instead of letting them make a dangerous journey you can help people better.


We must remember nothing about Saudi Arabia except that they are doing shit when it comes to this crisis and are happy to let others deal with the mess.

And yes, Europe and the US have screwed up in the region. But at some point, where does the responsibility of the citizens there start? A lot of countries have gone through terrible things and come out better for it, some fail. That is not always the fault of others, but also of the countries themselves. Nobody is forcing Iran and Saudi Arabia to fight proxy wars at the moment, yet they are still happy to do it and have millions of people caught in the fights.

And the EU did not support the Iraq war btw. Some countries in Europe did, but that was mostly the US and UK.

The counties you mention can do that cause refugees can do that cause they are almost impossible to reach by other means. Not to mention getting into the US takes about 2 years in some cases.
The idea of helping them in the immediate areas is stupid since EVEN UNCHR has said that they need the WORLD to help relieve the burden in the UNCHR camps.

I think we can agree that the Saudis suck ass.

Talking about personal responsibility strikes me as very odd since we took that away be destabilizing the region.
I think the EU should have done MORE before the invasion of Iraq. I mean we sanctioned Russia about Krim?
The most ironic part about this is that the countries who fucked up the most US/UK are the ones who are doing the least.




Any how, to get back on topic and away from geopolitics, I believe we must let women of muslim decent define their struggle against patriarchy.

 

[ClosingADoor]

The counties you mention can do that cause refugees can do that cause they are almost impossible to reach by other means. Not to mention getting into the US takes about 2 years in some cases.
The idea of helping them in the immediate areas is stupid since EVEN UNCHR has said that they need the WORLD to help relieve the burden in the UNCHR camps.

So take people from those camps and transfer them to safe places in other regions.

There are plenty of other areas these people can reach by foot, but they go to Europe because we have said they are welcome and get a good life here. Nobody is walking towards Russia or Morocco as far as I know, also safe countries compared to Syria. We have people here telling about how the journey is so dangerous and people are drowning, yet they are happy to have people make that journey. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Let's just face it, by telling everyone the borders are open and everyone is welcome, people made use of that offer. And there wasn't enough planned for the actual aftermath and the large numbers, leading to unsafe situations like this.

Any how, to get back on topic and away from geopolitics, I believe we must let women of muslim decent define their struggle against patriarchy.

What does this mean? The troubles in this topic have little to do with Muslim women. Those are issues for in the Middle-east itself, not so much for Europe, since over here we have already decided men and women are equal and we are not about to have people change that view.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

So take people from those camps and transfer them to safe places in other regions.

There are plenty of other areas these people can reach by foot, but they go to Europe because we have said they are welcome and get a good life here. Nobody is walking towards Russia or Morocco as far as I know, also safe countries compared to Syria. We have people here telling about how the journey is so dangerous and people are drowning, yet they are happy to have people make that journey. It makes absolutely no sense at all.

Let's just face it, by telling everyone the borders are open and everyone is welcome, people made use of that offer. And there wasn't enough planned for the actual aftermath and the large numbers, leading to unsafe situations like this.

Or the EU could change the rules regarding asylum seekers flying and that they must seek asylum in the first country.
They aren't going to Marocco or Russia since they won't let them stay.
But I guess we can agree that more countries should help?

 

[His Majesty]

Speaking as a feminist I say that patriarchal violence is always patriarchal violence and must be confronted and stopped.

I see this as a tie in to debates had regarding the oppression of minority women.
There you can easily read many (mostly white) journalists champion the poor brown womans cause claiming that feminists (same thing as in this thread) are ignoring issues in the minority community cause of reasons.
The reality is that there are TONS of groups that work with the issues but that many rightwingers are just ignorant of them

Many are trying to make this into a cultural/heritage issue and I don't agree with that.
This a symptom of patriarchy. It is about MEN first and foremost.
I see a huge problem IRL and even this thread how people are using the past awful events to further xenophobic and islamophobic agenda.
The reason I find the rightwing rhetoric bad is that they have very little information just like the people I previous mentioned.

Ignoring the cultural element that is at hand here is simply putting your head in the sand. I've seen this reaction from a few feminists and it feels very cheap to me.

The patriarchy isn't some evil institution that stands on its own, it's the cause of the morals, values and traditions of a culture that has evolved over hundreds of years. Today those patriarchal elements have largely faded away from our liberal Western society, especially in comparison to Arabic cultures. Disregarding that cultural dimension is simply dishonest thinking to avoid criticizing those cultures. If that makes me an ignorant right-wing nutjob, then so be it.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

What does this mean? The troubles in this topic have little to do with Muslim women. Those are issues for in the Middle-east itself, not so much for Europe, since over here we have already decided men and women are equal and we are not about to have people change that view.

The problem boils down to patriarchal oppression, and how we can combat that oppression while maintaining a intersectional view.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Or the EU could change the rules regarding asylum seekers flying and that they must seek asylum in the first country.
They aren't going to Marocco or Russia since they won't let them stay.
But I guess we can agree that more countries should help?

Those rules about the first country are already pretty much gone. Nobody can reach Germany or Sweden (the two countries with the highest number at the moment) without entering other EU countries.

I don't know about just having people fly in and apply on themselves, since the check then comes afterwards still, while it should be before they come to the country. That's why I think taking people directly from refugee camps and after a check is the best way.

And yes, more countries should help, especially countries that have a majority of the same faith and background these people have so it won't clash as much.

The problem boils down to patriarchal oppression, and how we can combat that oppression while maintaining a intersectional view.

But that is oppression in those Middle-eastern and Northern African countries these people are from. Not in Europe. We can not combat that from Europe, that has to come from the people there and will be a process that will take decades more probably. Meanwhile people coming here should adapt to the ways of the countries here and not bother others with their oppressive views. It's all fine if you want to think that way, but once you act on that and assault people you've wasted your chance here.

 

[Eric_S]

Politics is about power, and distribution stemming from an ideological root.

Who has the power, how do we distribute it, how do we tackle wealth. What do we value, and how does this reflect into society.

All actions have consequences. Some big, some small and more often than not the total sum of them can be very hard to overlook.

I find that this mode of discussion is largely lacking (not poking at this thread, but the media that I read) or at its worst, it's frivolously used together with intentionally lax truth in order to smear.

Don't want any more asylum seekers? Then people may die. And you potentially miss in on people who may do a lot of good

You want more asylum seekers? Then there may be redistribution questions that may be needed to be lifted, or other practicalities that needs solving. If the majority only have a highschool education, then not everyone will be able to get educated or otherwise find a job. These people need to live somewhere and that may give rise to the need to build more houses, that in turn may need to be placed in a liked green area and so on.

You fill one scale and you tip another. You can feel that one cup is far more important then the other, but that doesn't make the other go away.



Now, cultural issues are being raised, sometimes falling close to dangerous collectivization of behaviours and implying that it's something they are born to do.

This is a dangerous thing to do.

On the other hand, having a pragmatic policy for the elimination of such behaviours requires knowing where on aggregate these behaviors pop up. So that you can create effective policies for prevention and deescalation.

Long term, it's probably through the education system. But I feel that it's also important to find who the leaders in that cultural context is and integrate your narrative there in a way that is relevant to said group. That probably won't make them into liberal feminists, but to get there in the second generation to come you are probably better off taking those first steps early on with their parents.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

Agreed. We need a better plan than relying on the inner good in all people and demonizing people who criticize such a naive approach to planning and response. Sorry, that just doesn't cut it in the real world.

What is this nonsense about "reyling on the inner good in all people"? Who says crap like this? Nobody. Just another phrase used by right wing radicals. The left in Germany is currently very critical of the police leadership in Cologne, and they wonder why they haven't used additional police forces like it was requested during planning, and why no backup was deployed during that night, when it was available. How does that fit in your theory, that leftists don't think there could be problems? Exactly, it doesn't.

Average people got called racist for speaking out against uncontrolled mass immigration of refugees but in the end they were right. So yes naive and it has consequences.

Please, just say what you really want. "Controlled immigration" would not have prevented this. But that's not what you really want. What you want is almost zero immigration. What you want is to refuse help to millions of innocent people who are fleeing from death and destruction. Because of what? Because of an incident, where a handful people was involved, and which would have been preventable, if the police had acted properly? Because of a few bad people you want to refuse help to millions?

You are not an average person. You can repeat it a thousand times, you can walk through the streets with your friends and shout "Wir sind das Volk" (We are the people), but you are not representative of the German people in any way, and you are not an average person. Because the average person in Germany is a decent human being, respects human rights and wants to help people who need help. Even if it is hard sometimes.

 

[Scrooged]

The problem boils down to patriarchal oppression, and how we can combat that oppression while maintaining a intersectional view.

The religion is based on and constantly reinforces patriarchal oppression.

Feminists defending Islam is one of the most bizarre things ever.

 

[theusedversion]

Saw this cartoon just pop up on my Facebook feed. No idea if it's old or anything. First time seeing it. NSFW: Germany Today Cartoon

 

[nib95]

Saw this cartoon just pop up on my Facebook feed. No idea if it's old or anything. First time seeing it. NSFW: Germany Today Cartoon

What in the actual fuck....

 

[El Topo]

That is easily one of the most disgusting, inappropriate "political" cartoons I've seen. It doesn't seem to be new though and seems originally to be part of a slightly larger cartoon about UKIP.

 

[Dabanton]

Oh my.

 

[theusedversion]

What in the actual fuck....

I was quite shocked when I saw it.

 

[Damerman]

Apparently there is more foolishness: Mayor of Cologne urges code of conduct for young women to prevent future assaults

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12083921/Mayor-of-Cologne-urges-code-of-conduct-for-young-women-to-prevent-future-assaults.html

I regret visiting Off-topic today.

Saw this cartoon just pop up on my Facebook feed. No idea if it's old or anything. First time seeing it. NSFW: Germany Today Cartoon

I REALLY fucking regret visiting off-topic today.

These acts of assault on women are terrible. if they are in fact refugees committing these acts, i would go as far as deporting them on their first offense. But I hope germans can maintain their composure during these times. anyone who is for letting refugees in should have realized that there would be a few bad apples and they should also realize that these bad apples aren't representative of all arabs who sought refuge.

 

[hohoXD123]

I was quite shocked when I saw it.

Anyone would be. What the fuck were they thinking.

 

[ClosingADoor]

What you want is to refuse help to millions of innocent people who are fleeing from death and destruction.

The people arrested were mostly from Algeria, Morocco and Iran. Are there wars going on there I'm not aware of?

 

[Kinokou]

ANGRY protests against the horrific New Year's Eve attacks in Cologne erupted today with police firing water cannons on crowds of people.


Article isn't that informative outside of the protesters being far right anti islam and an implied peaceful left wing woman protest. I find there to be some kind of irony of the protesters rather than the perpetrators are being dealt with on the spot, even if it is easier to break up what I am assuming to a vocal group in an open space rather than finding groups of 20 people among hundreds or thousands.

 

[Eric_S]

Saw this cartoon just pop up on my Facebook feed. No idea if it's old or anything. First time seeing it. NSFW: Germany Today Cartoon

Well that is quite something ...

Let's dial the xenophobia alll the way up to eleven, and then break the knob trying to crank it further.

Sheesh.

 

[nib95]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12083921/Mayor-of-Cologne-urges-code-of-conduct-for-young-women-to-prevent-future-assaults.html

Whilst what she said is silly, I like how Torygraph had to repeat “of Arab or North African appearance” within one paragraph of each other. They evidently really want to drum that bit in. Who is the original quote from anyway? And does it refer to the entire group or just some of them?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Whilst what she said is silly, I like how Torygraph had to repeat “of Arab or North African appearance” within one paragraph of each other. They evidently really want to drum that bit in. Who is the original quote from anyway? And does it refer to the entire group or just some of them?

One mention is in the lead of the article, the other inside the article itself. Repeating stuff after the lead is pretty standard in any form of journalism. Original quote is from a police officer I think and referring to the whole group.

 

[Enosh]

Anyone would be. What the fuck were they thinking.

it's originally about the thing in the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal) and pointing out stuff like this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...sed-in-petrol-if-they-threatened-to-tell.html

Fathers arrested.

While the police often failed to take action against the abusers, there were cases where concerned parents were arrested for trying to protect their own children.

The report identified two separate cases where fathers who had tracked their daughters down and were trying to remove them from houses where they were being abused, were themselves arrested.

 

[nib95]

One mention is in the lead of the article, the other inside the article itself. Repeating stuff after the lead is pretty standard in any form of journalism. Original quote is from a police officer I think and referring to the whole group.

They both show up in the main article for me. And I don't buy for a second that it wasn't intentional, especially so close together.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

The problem boils down to patriarchal oppression, and how we can combat that oppression while maintaining a intersectional view.

Your "patriarchal oppression" is a cultural/societal problem when it comes to these Syrian refugees, it's a way of life, this isn't about some grand fight against men in general in western societies, this is a cultural specific issue that is resulting in the reported assaults in Germany, to portray the problem otherwise and to try to shift the focus away from an urgent problem is intellectually dishonest.

 

[ClosingADoor]

They both show up in the main article for me. And I don't buy for a second that it wasn't intentional.

There are 4 mentions in the article. One in the lead, one in the second paragraph and two at the end, but those are quotes. I don't see the problem.

 

[lifa-cobex]

it's originally about the thing in the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotherham_child_sexual_exploitation_scandal) and pointing out stuff like this

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...sed-in-petrol-if-they-threatened-to-tell.html

I live in Rotherham. It's still a very touche subject that pisses people off to high degrees.
I've had the odd chat with people in my local about this. Everyone has pretty much said its the same thing.

edit: and tbf. So do I

 

[nib95]

There are 4 mentions in the article. One in the lead, one in the second paragraph and two at the end, but those are quotes. I don't see the problem.

It's trying to subvert the reader in to subconsciously having an especially negative opinion of Arabs and North Africans by continuously focusing on the race.

And it's not really common at all. How often do you read articles about attacks where the race, religion or colour of skin is continously brought up unless they're minorities, or of this particular race or religion?

 

[ClosingADoor]

It's trying to subvert the reader in to subconsciously having an especially negative opinion of Arabs and North Africans by continuously focusing on the race.

I sincerely doubt the journalist that wrote this had that in mind. One of the quotes that mention their ethnicity is even a warning about not judging everyone the same.

It was something said about the situation by the police and is relevant to the article.

 

[E92 M3]

The problem isn't that all refugees are inherently bad, but as discussed a million times, their culture and view on women is completely different than society they are "integrating into." Germany should have been much more selective and not taken in so many single men.

 

[MisterFalcon]

ANGRY protests against the horrific New Year's Eve attacks in Cologne erupted today with police firing water cannons on crowds of people.

Those 1700 cops in riot gear with water cannons would have been useful a week ago.

 

[nib95]

I sincerely doubt the journalist that wrote this had that in mind. One of the quotes that mention their ethnicity is even a warning about not judging everyone the same.

It was something said about the situation by the police and is relevant to the article.

I personally think you're being naive, and I suspect you think I might be being silly, but we'll just agree to disagree. I'm also not suggesting it's not important or relevant to the article, but that particular detail doesn't need to be continously repeated in the very same article, as if the writers life depended on ensuring the reader didn't miss it the first time.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

This is the beginning of what will become a big problem going forward in Europe.
I dont think there is anything that will stop the immigration issues going forward. The Middle-eastern countries will continue to be unstable and poor for atleast another century - and more and more will try to flock to the west in search for a better life.

Walls will be buildt to keep them from coming to the west, and the left should realize that instead of forcing people to vote to the far-right to get the job done. The truth is we cant expect this demographic to integrate well into western society (Adult males from Islamic countries), and we should avoid letting them come here.

My suggestion would be to allow mostly just women and children to come for help. I think there is truth in the sentiment that grown men should stay and fight for their country.

Do you think those men would allow their women and children to leave them while they're forced to fight and die, when women and children don't have a say back home?

 

[pgtl_10]

Something the current policy actually is responsible for. If you help people directly from refugee centers like the UK, Canada and US are doing instead of letting them make a dangerous journey you can help people better.


We must remember nothing about Saudi Arabia except that they are doing shit when it comes to this crisis and are happy to let others deal with the mess.

And yes, Europe and the US have screwed up in the region. But at some point, where does the responsibility of the citizens there start? A lot of countries have gone through terrible things and come out better for it, some fail. That is not always the fault of others, but also of the countries themselves. Nobody is forcing Iran and Saudi Arabia to fight proxy wars at the moment, yet they are still happy to do it and have millions of people caught in the fights.

And the EU did not support the Iraq war btw. Some countries in Europe did, but that was mostly the US and UK.

Having lived in the Middle East, I'll say this. When one destroys all the aspects that kept a society stable, it takes a long time to rebuild.

I use Hurricane Katrina as an example. In Katrina's aftermath, New Orleans was in chaos. There was looting, rape, murder, and riots. Police abandoned their posts and prisoners were freed.

What brought New Orleans under control was the rest of the United States being stable to contain the chaos. If the entire US suffered Katrina the same way New Orleans did we still be in chaos and Mexico/Canada would have absorbed some instability.

That is essentially what happened to Iraq. The structures that kept society in place collapsed because of the Western invasion. There was no one able to contain it so the violence spread.

Another good example was the Israel/Palestinian refugees which caused refugees to go to Lebanon. A civil war erupted that lasted 20 years partly because of the incoming Palestinian refugees.

Humans by nature don't rebuild quickly. If there is widespread chaos because a lack of stability it will continue to spread until somebody is stable enough to control it.

I read the Riftwar saga of books by Raymond Feist. In one arc, a queen ravaged an entire continent. Roughly 30 years later the continent was still in chaos. Feist provided a good example of how it takes a long time for strong leadership to emerge and stabilize a region.

 

[kitch9]

Do you think those men would allow their women and children to leave them while they're forced to fight and die, when women and children don't have a say back home?

Why is that our problem?

If the man isn't of the nature to protect his wife and child that would strongly suggest that they aren't suitable for civilised society.

There's a precedent for protecting women and children, we did it in the war and it worked.

I would be completely happy with the refugee situation being limited to women and children only. These boats full of single men who've dumped their women and think they are coming to a getting laid party paid for by the tax payer can be sent straight back for me.

Islamic men think they are superior to women in every way so let them solve their problems.

 

[Dangansona]

The problem isn't that all refugees are inherently bad, but as discussed a million times, their culture and view on women is completely different than society they are "integrating into." Germany should have been much more selective and not taken in so many single men.

I guess this is the most logical approach to this problem. But even as a Democrat this shit scares me, and also has someone who's girlfriend lives in Germany. If you go on Reddit you can read Germans talking about run ins with these people at train stations where many of them are hang around, and how they have to shove them away.

Maybe Trump is right about ceasing refugees until we figure things out (in my mind what kind of screening and selections we would take). I just figure he would never deem things figured out.

 

[kirblar]

I guess this is the most logical approach to this problem. But even as a Democrat this shit scares me, and also has someone who's girlfriend lives in Germany. If you go on Reddit you can read Germans talking about run ins with these people at train stations where many of them are hang around, and how they have to shove them away.

Maybe Trump is right about ceasing refugees until we figure things out (in my mind what kind of screening and selections we would take). I just figure he would never deem things figured out.

US/Canada don't have the problem to this degree because it's much easier for us to be selective. We don't take in all that many and we don't have the same issues in terms of community self-segregation w/ Immigrants here in the US.

The problem is culture, not religion.

 

[nib95]

Islamic men think they are superior to women in every way so let them solve their problems.

Seriously what is this bullshit? This anti-Islamic generalising venomous rhetoric. You speak for all Muslim men do you?

I guess this is the most logical approach to this problem. But even as a Democrat this shit scares me, and also has someone who's girlfriend lives in Germany. If you go on Reddit you can read Germans talking about run ins with these people at train stations where many of them are hang around, and how they have to shove them away.

Maybe Trump is right about ceasing refugees until we figure things out (in my mind what kind of screening and selections we would take). I just figure he would never deem things figured out.

Generally anywhere that has social economic depravity, or a lack of infrastructure, education etc, is going to have a greater number of people who are not as progressively mannered, not to modern Western developed standards anyway. That will be the case with many countries around the world, be it Africa, the Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe, hell even in the West. You see it in diluted fashion in some of the heavily Republican states in America for example. You won't ever get rid of that, but the idea is to create a good process of assimilation that allows immigrants to better and more quickly learn cultural norms intrinsic to the nation they're residing. Obviously that is a process that takes time, but the alternative is essentially not taking people in, and essentially leaving them to die or starve.

 

[daniels]

Please, just say what you really want. "Controlled immigration" would not have prevented this. But that's not what you really want. What you want is almost zero immigration. What you want is to refuse help to millions of innocent people who are fleeing from death and destruction. Because of what? Because of an incident, where a handful people was involved, and which would have been preventable, if the police had acted properly? Because of a few bad people you want to refuse help to millions?

You are not an average person. You can repeat it a thousand times, you can walk through the streets with your friends and shout "Wir sind das Volk" (We are the people), but you are not representative of the German people in any way, and you are not an average person. Because the average person in Germany is a decent human being, respects human rights and wants to help people who need help. Even if it is hard sometimes.

Dude you are projecting your stupid fear on me and pretend to know me are you for real?
I said since the start of this crazy nonsense there should be a controlled help for refugees and they should be spread around Europe and others should help and i constantly criticed the US, UK for not helping out to the point it got repetitive and i am obviously annoyed by how the EU currently does things.

 

[kitch9]

Seriously what is this bullshit? This anti-Islamic generalising venomous rhetoric. You speak for all Muslim men do you?

No I don't have speak for all Islamic men. There's millions who are as Islamic as I am Christian.(Not very.) These are the types who abandon the medieval nonsense present in the religions and just want to get on in life like everyone else.

Unless you want to argue that Islam strictly treats women and men as absolute equals?

Carry on with the hand wringing though.

 

[Dennis]

Is Merkel disgusted enough by these assaults to apologize to the German people for the worst political blunder in at least a decade?

 

[nib95]

No I don't have speak for all Islamic men. There's millions who are as Islamic as I am Christian.(Not very.)

Unless you want to argue that Islam strictly treats women and men as absolute equals?

Of course it doesn't, and neither does Christianity, not if you've actually read the Bible anyway. I don't think any of the religions treat men and women equally, not in the way cultural norms present today anyway. But it's a different form of it, with women being afforded certain rights and privileges over men, and men being afford certain rights and privileges over women. The main crux of the disagreements come with the very traditional (some would argue archaic) balance of these differences, with most religions taking the stance that men should ideally be the providers and breadwinners, and women the carers and nurturers.

Comments such as these though, just come off as anti-Islamic toxic generalisations.

Islamic men think they are superior to women in every way so let them solve their problems.

 

[Joni]

Of course it doesn't, and neither does Christianity, not if you've actually read the Bible anyway.

The biggest part of the Christian faith has a unified leader that can basically overrule the Bible.

 

[kitch9]

Of course it doesn't, and neither does Christianity, not if you've actually read the Bible anyway. I don't think any of the religions treat men and women equally, not in the way cultural norms present today anyway. But it's a different form of it, with women being afforded certain rights and privileges over men, and men being afford certain rights and privileges over men. The main crux of the disagreements come with the very traditional (some would argue archaic) balance of these differences, with most religions taking the stance that men should ideally be the providers and breadwinners, and women the carers and nurturers.

What's Christianity got to do with anything, it has nothing to do with equality laws and culture in the West anymore.

Your hyperbolic reactions just come off as reaching. Why do you struggle to maintain the context of a discussion?

 

[kitch9]

The biggest part of the Christian faith has a unified leader that can basically overrule the Bible.

Islam's biggest problem that.

Wonder why the Prophet didn't foresee it?

 

[Kinyou]

Dude you are projecting your stupid fear on me and pretend to know me are you for real?
I said since the start off this crazy nonsense there should be a controlled help for refugees and they should be spread around Europe and others should help and i constantly criticed the US, UK for not helping out to the point it got repetitive and i am obviously annoyed by how the EU currently does things.

It's funny how he exactly proved your point. A moderate opinion gets shouted down with "racist, racist, racist!"

 

[SolidusDave]

What is this nonsense about "reyling on the inner good in all people"? Who says crap like this? Nobody. Just another phrase used by right wing radicals. The left in Germany is currently very critical of the police leadership in Cologne, and they wonder why they haven't used additional police forces like it was requested during planning, and why no backup was deployed during that night, when it was available.

I'm certain the police has made mistakes during the incident, but I can also easily see why they would have "misjudged" it during plannings as something like this has never happened before. They know how much police force they usually need from the data and experiences from previous years.
Now, imagine a person at that planning going "but we have more refugees now, doesn't that mean we need more police men?"... that would give you some weird looks at best.

ANGRY protests against the horrific New Year's Eve attacks in Cologne erupted today with police firing water cannons on crowds of people.


Article isn't that informative outside of the protesters being far right anti islam and an implied peaceful left wing woman protest. I find there to be some kind of irony of the protesters rather than the perpetrators are being dealt with on the spot, even if it is easier to break up what I am assuming to a vocal group in an open space rather than finding groups of 20 people among hundreds or thousands.

Uh.. and the right vs left continues. At least there seems to have been a separate flashmob against male violence at the same time.

Quite frustrating to have no middle ground, who wants to align with that far right mob. 800 of the 1700 people were hooligans, the other half I guess NPD and other Rattenfänger...
http://www.tagesschau.de/inland/koeln-pegida-101.html
(Also is that one guy really doing the Hitler salute?)

The German article also gives an update on the numbers:
379 criminal charges in cologne for NYE. 40% with sexual assault. Most suspects still are young men from North-African countries. Currently the majority are asylum seekers or illegal immigrants (haven't heard that one yet TBH).

 

[nib95]

What's Christianity got to do with anything, it has nothing to do with equality laws and culture in the West anymore.

Your hyperbolic reactions just come off as reaching. Why do you struggle to maintain the context of a discussion?

You mentioned you were a Christian. Presumably you don't think you are superior to women in every way, despite how similar teachings are in the Bible regarding women's rights to the Qur'an. That was exactly my point. It's a stupid bigoted generalisation about an entire religious group, with no factual basis.

Those are all very fine underlying reasons, but no solution. Unless you want to take everyone in and take decades to educate them with all the trouble that comes with it. A lot of people don't want that, and have also seen over the past decades that even that isn't always a solution. You can not have a good asylum process with the numbers coming in right now, it is impossible.

The alternative is not to let them die or starve. The alternative is having countries in the region take them in (some do already, but Northern African countries and Gulf states aren't very active with it as far as I know) and helping out in the funding and rebuilding.

I'm not suggesting we take everyone in, far from it. I just don't agree that so many should be turned away and suffer because of the actions of a few, nor that we should be shunning from our humanity and compassion simply because it's a difficult and arduous task, that may risk affecting our comparatively cozy and idealistic lives. And I do also agree more pressure should be put on other regions and countries taking more in, though we have to remember it's still countries like Lebanon, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey, Jordan etc that are taking in by far the most.

On a side note, I am also not suggesting Germany has not done enough. I think Germany has gone above and beyond, and I respect the nation for that, despite the heated condemnation it's getting from a portion of the public. Now it's just up to Germany to help properly accommodate and assimilate these refugee's, not ostracise and demonise them.