Support NeoGAF

[damisa]

Jesus Christ. You're going on ignore. I can't handle the moronic posts like the one quoted above.

Rigged:

1. The word rigged is used to describe situations where unfair advantages are given to one side of a conflict.
2. Describes the side of a conflict that holds an unfair advantage.

CEO's make 300 times more than their average employee. Rigged. Millionaires and Billionaires can buy politician's votes due to Citizen's United. Rigged. Wall St. executives can cripple the economy with illegal activities and not one goes to jail...meanwhile, homie on the corner is getting shot by the police for the crime of standing on a corner. Rigged.

It goes on and on but you wouldn't understand.

Can't have an argument so you put me on ignore? What a coward you are. I'll answer you anyway. Nothing you stated accept CEO pay is actually rigged

First off I see you already ignored your whole "politics is rigged" argument and focused only on economics, fine

Millionaires and Billionaires can buy politician's votes due to Citizen's United ->How'd that work out for Romney? 14/25 biggest political donors are Unions. First Wall street firm is #15, Koch brothers are #49 https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

So which wall street execs "got away with it?" Surely you have some names and proof of crimes committed.

"homie on the corner is getting shot by the police for the crime of standing on a corner" -> I don't even know what the point of this was. Racism is due to Wall Street rigging the system?

CEO's make 300 times more than their average employee. -> This is the only one when you have an argument, since CEO pay scales are set by a board which usually has incentives for nice payments since they may one day be CEOs themselves. But CEO pay is not a particularly important problem. It should be better regulated, but there are not enough CEOs for it to be that important.

 

[Measley]

If Sanders won the nomination, republicans would beat the Socialist angle all day every day. Ignorant voters who may vote democrat would either vote Republican or stay home.

Sorry, but America isn't enlightened enough to vote for a socialist. Hell, an atheist couldn't win the presidency in this country.

 

[Tesseract]

Do you think there would be less gridlock with Bernie as President?

a rally of the people would prevent that

 

[DrForester]

Bernie could probably win against the entire field of GOP candidates.

He unfortunately can't win against Hilary's coronation.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

If Sanders won the nomination, republicans would beat the Socialist angle all day every day. Ignorant voters who may vote democrat would either vote Republican or stay home.

Sorry, but America isn't enlightened enough to vote for a socialist. Hell, an atheist couldn't win the presidency in this country.

National awareness of Sanders is ~88%. People know he's a socialist; it's not some sort of surprise that the Republicans can pull out the bag. That's like the first thing everyone finds out about Sanders. That's not stopping him being the most favourable candidate in the whole race.

 

[SnakeXs]

Yeah he could win, but he needs:

1. A MASSIVE boost to his poll numbers IMMEDIATELY

2. A real Clinton scandal the likes of which Hilary has never seen.

Unless one of those things happen, he won't be the nom.

These obviously would help, but aren't vital.

What is vital is ending this impossible mission narrative. He has no chance because the dialogue for months on end is that he has no chance. The pessimism is a symptom of the echo chamber.

 

[dramatis]

It's funny you should say that because if wanted a person who can actually make an impact - you should just look at his record. He is far more accomplished getting things done than you seem to be aware of.

It's funny that you should post that. So what you're saying is, Bernie spent 25 years in federal office and helmed less legislation than Hillary had in 8 years? And the number of bills he had success with (1 percent of 353 being 3.5, so we can generously give him 4 successes) was only one more bill than Hillary despite being in Congress 3 times as long as she has?

I guess women really do have to work harder for the same recognition. I mean, you're more than willing to say Bernie is far more accomplished than people give him recognition for. If that's the case, then you must think Hillary is super accomplished!

 

[Baron Aloha]

I'm voting for Bernie because it would send a message and meaningfully start the conversation. Truth is, neither Bernie or Hilary would be able to get anything through congress than benefits the middle class but Hilary might be able to pass the more hawkish or corporatist items on her agenda should she get in.

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

It is possible that Bernie, if he was the nominee, could beat some potential Republican nominees. I'm not sure where you're getting "likely repub nominee".

Oh, I just mean that Trump is probably going to be the republican nominee.

 

[Setzer]

I wish, fucking can't stand Hilary

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

 

[AstroNut325]

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

So you will give your support to Trump in that case?

 

[Aaronology]

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

Then you don't actually give a damn about the vast majority of Sanders' politics. Clearly.

 

[Pastry]

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

So basically you'll throw a temper tantrum? Bernie would be ashamed considering he'll back Hillary himself.

 

[noshten]

It's funny that you should post that. So what you're saying is, Bernie spent 25 years in federal office and helmed less legislation than Hillary had in 8 years? And the number of bills he had success with (1 percent of 353 being 3.5, so we can generously give him 4 successes) was only one more bill than Hillary despite being in Congress 3 times as long as she has?

I guess women really do have to work harder for the same recognition. I mean, you're more than willing to say Bernie is far more accomplished than people give him recognition for. If that's the case, then you must think Hillary is super accomplished!

So Hillary's capability of naming or renaming things is a winning record? I was simply putting forth the fact that within the system he has had a similar success to any other law maker. What he really shines is other fields

"Sanders is the amendment king of the current House of Representative. Since the Republicans took over Congress in 1995, no other lawmaker – not Tom DeLay, not Nancy Pelosi – has passed more roll-call amendments (amendments that actually went to a vote on the floor) than Bernie Sanders.

Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:

- Corporate Crime Accountability (February 1995): A Sanders amendment to the Victims Justice Act of 1995 required “offenders who are convicted of fraud and other white-collar crimes to give notice to victims and other persons in cases where there are multiple victims eligible to receive restitution.”

- Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers (April 1998): In an amendment to H.R. 6, the Higher Education Amendments of 1998, Sanders made a change to the law that allowed the Fund for the Improvement of Postsecondary Education to make competitive grants available to colleges and universities that cooperated to reduce costs through joint purchases of goods and services.

- Holding IRS Accountable, Protecting Pensions (July 2002): Sanders' amendment to the Treasury and General Government Appropriations Act of 2003 stopped the IRS from being able to use funds that “violate current pension age discrimination laws.” Although he faced stiff GOP opposition, his amendment still succeeded along a 308 to 121 vote.

- Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001): You wouldn't think Republicans would agree to an expansion of funds for community health centers, which provide some free services. But Sanders was able to win a $100 million increase in funding with an amendment.

- Getting Tough On Child Labor (July 2001): A Sanders amendment to the general appropriations bill prohibited the importation of goods made with child labor.

- Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004): Sanders won a $22 million increase for the low-income home energy assistance program and related weatherization assistance program.

- Fighting Corporate Welfare and Protecting Against Nuclear Disasters (June 2005): A Sanders amendment brought together a bipartisan coalition that outnumbered a bipartisan coalition on the other side to successfully prohibit the Export-Import Bank from providing loans for nuclear projects in China.

Once Sanders made it to the Senate in 2006, his ability to use amendments to advance a progressive agenda was empowered. Here are some of the amendments he passed in the Senate:

- Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007): A Sanders amendment made a change to the law so at least 30 percent of the hot water demand in newer federal buildings is provided through solar water heaters.

- Protecting Our Troops (October 2007): Sanders used an amendment to win $10 million for operation and maintenance of the Army National Guard, which had been stretched thin and overextended by the war in Iraq.

- Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009): A Sanders amendment required the banking bailout to utilize stricter H-1B hiring standards to ensure bailout funds weren't used to displace American workers.

- Helping Veterans' Kids (July 2009): A Sanders amendment required the Comptroller General to put together comprehensive reporting on financial assistance for child care available to parents in the Armed Forces.

- Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012): A Sanders amendment required “public availability of the database of senior Department officials seeking employment with defense contractors” – an important step toward transparency that revealed the corruption of the revolving door in action.

- Support for Treating Autism in Military Health Care: Sanders worked with Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) to pass an amendment by a vote of 66-29 ensuring that the military's TRICARE system would be able to treat autism.

http://www.alternet.org/election-20...shing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you

 

[Valhelm]

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

I can see why you'd feel this way, but a Clinton presidency would be the best alternative if we can't get Bernie. America really can't suffer under four or eight years of a Republican, especially with the importance of the supreme court nominations.

 

[Measley]

National awareness of Sanders is ~88%. People know he's a socialist; it's not some sort of surprise that the Republicans can pull out the bag. That's like the first thing everyone finds out about Sanders. That's not stopping him being the most favourable candidate in the whole race.

If Sanders is the nominee, he has my vote. I just don't see this country voting for a socialist in this current political environment.

We'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

 

[Setzer]

So you will give your support to Trump in that case?

Did I say Trump would be getting my support? No way in hell I'm voting him either.

 

[AstroNut325]

Did I say Trump would be getting my support? No way in hell I'm voting him either.

Every no-vote for the Democrats is a yes-vote for the leading Republican candidate and supreme Court justices like Scalia.

 

[johnsmith]

Bernie would get eaten alive in the general. He hasn't been vetted at all and has an entire ossuary in his closet.

Does Hillary have baggage? Yes, but it's been out there for 2 decades now, none of it's new.

 

[noshten]

Bernie would get eaten alive in the general. He hasn't been vetted at all and has an entire ossuary in his closet.

Does Hillary have baggage? Yes, but it's been out there for 2 decades now, none of it's new.

So just because Hillary has baggage everyone else does?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

He could win, it just isn't as likely to win as Hillary would be.

I also agree that his ideas are unlikely to get through congress anyway. I think Hillary would have the ability to be a lot more productive as president, even if I don't agree with her policies quite as much as Bernie's.

 

[norm9]

So just because Hillary has baggage everyone else does?

You don't succeed in politics without baggage.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Bernie would get eaten alive in the general. He hasn't been vetted at all and has an entire ossuary in his closet.

Does Hillary have baggage? Yes, but it's been out there for 2 decades now, none of it's new.

"entire ossuary"

okay, sure.

incidentally, talking of Clinton's supposed electoral prowess, she's down 9 to Rubio in the latest Anderson and Shaw poll.

Yes, that's 9 points.

9.

If you're still thinking you have to vote Clinton because she's more electable, you might want to reconsider.

 

[woen]

Hillary's "useful vote" (vote for me or the GOP wins, I'm electable) is slowly killing Bernie's chances like it often kills alternative that would in reality be as electable as the front-runner (and would likely do much more than a centrist front-runner tied in the political system)

Honestly, the quotes I've seen posted on my Facebook from him make Jeremy Corbyn, UK's most dangerous politician, look pedestrian. Honestly, I would have to admit the British public have lurched further to the right than the US if Bernie gets elected

I'd like to fix your post :

Jeremy Corbyn, UK's Chancellor Palpatine, New Leader of the Siths, Dark Side Master, and Threat to the Galaxy.

Nah, but hopefully his strong support will continue to push Hillary to the left.

If it's only during the election to rally Bernie supporters...

 

[Elfforkusu]

I think if he can make it past Hillary he will absolutely win the general election. But that's a monstrously huge 'if'.

He taps the same anti-establishment well that Trump does.

 

[noshten]

You don't succeed in politics without baggage.

Apparently after all his time as mayor, congressman & senator in the public eye there hasn't been enough baggage to bring him down.

 

[Spider from Mars]

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

So you won't vote for someone who more or less shares the same positions as Bernie?

 

[richsena]

I'm not very confident that Bernie Sanders can win the general election against any of the likely Republican nominees and--depending on who he's running against--I'm not sure he should be president.

Obviously, Sanders has a strong humanitarian/socialist appeal and his mayoral approach to the executive branch speaks to Democrats who live in dense urban clusters (cities) where around 10% of the US population lives. I'm not as confident that his policies and ideologies would stand the test, or are compatible with, more modest urban areas (suburbs) where over 70% of the population lives. His election would rest upon an even larger youth voter turnout than Obama had.

Then there's the question about his compatibility with the current group in Congress. I'm virtually certain that the policies integral to his platform wouldn't get passed unless there is a massive turnover in Congress within his first term, which currently has very little chance or indication of happening.

With all these things considered, Sanders has a lot working against him. I'd very easily want to vote him into office over Trump or Cruz, but he's second in electability and projected effectiveness to Rubio and Clinton, for me.

 

[JesseEwiak]

"entire ossuary"

okay, sure.

incidentally, talking of Clinton's supposed electoral prowess, she's down 9 to Rubio in the latest Anderson and Shaw poll.

Yes, that's 9 points.

9.

If you're still thinking you have to vote Clinton because she's more electable, you might want to reconsider.

I love Sanders fans pointing out one polls as proof Clinton is doomed. Here are other Clinton-Rubio polls in the past few days.

POLLSTER DATES POP. CLINTON RUBIO UNDECIDED MARGIN
FOX NEW! 1/4 - 1/7 1,006 RV 41 50 3 Rubio +9
CNN 12/17 - 12/21/15 927 RV 46 49 3 Rubio +3
Emerson College Polling Society 12/17 - 12/20/15 754 RV 45 45 10 -
Quinnipiac 12/16 - 12/20/15 1,140 RV 44 43 6 Clinton +1
FOX 12/16 - 12/17/15 1,013 RV 43 45 5 Rubio +2
PPP (D) 12/16 - 12/17/15 1,267 LV 43 44 13 Rubio +1
Morning Consult 12/11 - 12/15/15 4,038 RV 45 36 19 Clinton +9
NBC/WSJ 12/6 - 12/9/15 849 RV 45 48 2 Rubio +3
Gravis Marketing/One America News 12/7 - 12/8/15 1,995 RV 50 50 - -
Morning Consult 12/3 - 12/7/15 2,047 RV 40 41 18 Rubio +1

Here's Rubio - Sanders
POLLSTER DATES POP. SANDERS RUBIO UNDECIDED MARGIN
Quinnipiac 12/16 - 12/20/15 1,140 RV 42 45 6 Rubio +3
PPP (D) 12/16 - 12/17/15 1,267 LV 39 42 20 Rubio +3
Quinnipiac 11/23 - 11/30/15 1,453 RV 44 43 6 Sanders +1
PPP (D) 11/16 - 11/17/15 1,360 LV 38 44 18 Rubio +6

Ignoring all of that, Sanders has never dealt with hundreds of millions of dollars in dark money with ads about him honeymooning in the Soviet Union put up against stories of people in the gulags in the Soviet Union at the same times, his promise to raise taxes on the middle class, and so on, and so forth.

Yes, Bernie Sanders seems appealing to low info voters when all you know is that he hates the banks and doesn't like income inequality. When you're a suburban housewife in the I-4 corridor, the idea of your taxes being raised when you're living paycheck to paycheck so the shiftless people in the ghetto can get free stuff doesn't seem as appealing when friendly, young, attractive Marco is supporting tax cuts for you and "cutting wasteful spending."

Apparently after all his time as mayor, congressman & senator in the public eye there hasn't been enough baggage to bring him down.

Because he's been running in lily white hippy Vermont. Where even the Republicans were liberal.

 

[Glitchfire]

0 percent chance.

 

[Elfforkusu]

So you won't vote for someone who more or less shares the same positions as Bernie?

Words are different from actions.

I'll vote for Hillary if it comes to it, but I won't expect much. Bernie I actually have (some) confidence in.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Ill say he could have.

To be honest, not taking super PACs was a bad idea. Taking the moral high ground on that issue isn't as helpful to your poll numbers and ability to win a campaign as much as taking super pac money does. And he isn't a self made billionaire like Trump with his own money to compensate.

Doesn't mean he needed to go to straight to the Koch brothers but there were ways he could have played his cards in regards to financing his campaign. It's great that he got so many individual donations from people but it really doesn't help all that much when most of them are under $20.

His lack of funding at this point is clearly effecting his ability to sustain his momentum, hire competent staffers, and get people and different demographics to hear his message and buy into his brand. Social media sharing of YouTube videos were you take shots at Rand Paul about health care only get you so far.

 

[JordanN]

^This! Colonel Sanders has my vote but no chance in hell am I voting Hilary if she's the Democratic nominee.

If you don't vote for a Dem, you'll be hearing news about the next pointless U.S war for decades.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

Doesn't Sanders do worse against the GOP field on average in polling? He only seems to do better against Trump but I have a hard time believing he can stand up to Trump for 6 months of straight heat being rained down on him and billions of dollars in ads.

 

[Effect]

So just because Hillary has baggage everyone else does?

Everyone has baggage. Obama had baggage. Hell he had to disavow a pastor in the middle of the damn primary as voting was taking place! Sanders is no exception. His past has not been looked into at all on a national level. The only place where it might have gotten some attention would have been in his home state and that's only if he ever had a hard fought race there. If it was easy for him then there is a chance nothing was done there. He has received no negative attention at all. This is THE reason why I don't put any real faith in any poll that his him leading anything over any republican. It's a poll with no negative coverage factored in or any attacks on his character and worth as a person. The whole Bernie is a socialist thing isn't it. He has no real built in aspects that can work against him the way Obama did by just existing as a black man running for office. I wish people would stop comparing the two or only cherry picking the things they'd like to compare while ignoring the entire picture.

Clinton's numbers factor in years of those attacks and they're still high. It's at a point were people just don't care anymore because it's the same old things over and over again or it's so transparent why it's being brought up that it actually gains Hillary sympathy and more points. Especially when she handles the attacks well like the hearing. This is why what Trump is doing is going to backfire in his face. It's done so in the past whenever people try to attack Hillary via Bill Clinton. Hell the media themselves have openly admitted to this which why it only really gets a passing mention instead of them jumping on it and focusing on what Trump is doing on this front.

 

[noshten]

Because he's been running in lily white hippy Vermont. Where even the Republicans were liberal.

I don't see how that has any impact on my point. Or are you saying Vermont is protecting Sander's baggage in someway and that the media or his opponents over there never tried to run negative ads against him.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

There's a good deal of support from us Charlestonians.

.. Not like that will matter T_T

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/ep...ina_democratic_presidential_primary-4167.html

That doesn't seem good. But I guess the Wii u is well supported, in some circles.

Tangent:
It's hilarious that Bernard fans think the game is rigged. Against a women fighting for this opportunity for 20 years. Yeah, he was independent up until yesterday and surprise, no one in the establishment supports him. This isn't hard. No one is surprised at the candidate who hasn't played by the rules doesn't get establishment support. That's his shtick. He's outside of Washington.

 

[spock]

I think he could and hope he does. Theres a group of people who are going to Trump or Sanders. Yes I know many here dont get how you a person can be in these 2 camps at the same time.

Here in New Hampshire, I've spoken to multiple people who are 2 time Obama voters who are voting Trump. They would also vote Sanders but will NOT vote Hillary. Trump has gotten to crazy for me to really consider as a vote but I am worried and concerned that so many are underestimating him in the general against Hillary. There is an under current most cant see just yet but will become more clear in the coming months...

 

[collige]

What states will flip if Bernie gets the nom over Clinton? Specifically?

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I don't see how that has any impact on my point. Or are you saying Vermont is protecting Sander's baggage in someway and that the media or his opponents over there never tried to run negative ads against him.

No, his point is that Sanders has never had to fight a truly high-stakes contest in which he's required to deflect dirty tricks from every direction while remaining appealing to a broad constituency. That's not necessarily a knock against him, but the main point of people who argue against Bernie is that his candidacy brings with it many unknowns, whereas with Clinton, whatever her negatives, we know basically what the nature of the attacks against her will be, and how she and the public will respond to them.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

What states will flip if Bernie gets the nom over Clinton? Specifically?

Ohio, Florida, Michigan.

 

[Fox318]

for the people that think Bernie can win how do you expect him to govern or lead the party? Bernie has always been an outside to the democratic primary and dealing with the senate and house is going to be the biggest thing for the next president.

 

[Smutpeddler]

Voting Republican is literally voting for failure.

Whomever the Democrat is will get my vote, however I am less than enthused with the candidates so far. Prefer that Bernie wins I suppose

 

[teruterubozu]

I think he could and hope he does. Theres a group of people who are going to Trump or Sanders. Yes I know many here dont get how you a person can be in these 2 camps at the same time.

Here in New Hampshire, I've spoken to multiple people who are 2 time Obama voters who are voting Trump. They would also vote Sanders but will NOT vote Hillary. Trump has gotten to crazy for me to really consider as a vote but I am worried and concerned that so many are underestimating him in the general against Hillary. There is an under current most cant see just yet but will become more clear in the coming months...

Yup, my mother-in-law in Maine speaks like this. Voted twice for Obama but wants Trump cuz she can't stand Hillary. I suggested Sanders and she says she likes him. lol

 

[Deleted member 231381]

Doesn't Sanders do worse against the GOP field on average in polling? He only seems to do better against Trump but I have a hard time believing he can stand up to Trump for 6 months of straight heat being rained down on him and billions of dollars in ads.

We have no idea, in all honesty. Only three companies conduct Sanders vs. non-Trump candidates - Quinnipac, which has Sanders and Clinton do effectively exactly the same, PPP which has Clinton do slightly better, and MorningConsult which has Sanders do slightly better - and we've not even had a MorningConsult with Sanders in 2 months, plus PPP are a terrible pollster. I wish other pollsters would ask about Sanders vs. non-Trump candidates instead of only seeming interested in Sanders vs. Trump. ;_; I'd actually be really interested to see what the numbers were.

 

[Setzer]

If you don't vote for a Dem, you'll be hearing news about the next pointless U.S war for decades.

Ok.

 

[injurai]

Ohio, Florida, Michigan.

Ohio hate's Hilliary so incredibly much. Kasich is about the only of flavor of Republican that we'd go for. It's important that Bernie get's the ticket, because Sander's is really starting to find an in road with people over here. It's not just the youth either.

 

[johnsmith]

nvm misunderstood.

 

[JesseEwiak]

Obama won all those. What states can Bernie win that Obama didn't?

Turnout will increase 500% and Bernie will every state except for Utah!

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

He would have just as much chance to win the general as Hilldawg, but at this point him winning the primary is a pipe dream. Doesn't really matter though. The Dem nominee will win if the Trump situation stays the same, and as much as I (and other Bernie supporters) like to think otherwise, with our current Congress a Bernie or Hilldawg presidency would likely be very similar.