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[His Majesty]

Reaction from Police Chief Peter Ågren on the events in Sweden:

Det här är en öm punkt, vi vågar ibland inte säga som det är för att vi tror att det spelar Sverigedemokraterna i händerna. Vi får ta på oss det här inom polisen.

It's a sensitive topic, sometimes we don't dare to say things as they are because we're afraid that it plays into the hands of the Swedish Democrats. We have to take responsibility within the police-force.

Holy shit. Surely heads will roll after this? The police keeping the truth from its citizens to serve the interests of political parties...disgusting.

 

[Calamari41]

How about instead of using the full power of the police and media to cover up events on the ground, you change your stance on the issue to reflect what is happening?

 

[ClosingADoor]

Reaction from Police Chief Peter Ågren on the events in Sweden:

Holy shit. Surely heads will roll after this? The police keeping the truth from its citizens to serve the interests of political parties...disgusting.

That's pretty terrible. It is not the place of the police to play politics. Leave that to the elected officials.

 

[Dennis]

Reaction from Police Chief Peter Ågren on the events in Sweden:

Holy shit. Surely heads will roll after this? The police keeping the truth from its citizens to serve the interests of political parties...disgusting.

Outrageous and disgusting.

In a sane world he would be fired on the spot.

Please tell me the Swedish public is calling for him to be replaced.

 

[SpoonyBard]

Outrageous and disgusting.

In a sane world he would be fired on the spot.

Please tell me the Swedish public is calling for him to be replaced.

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

 

[michaelius]

How about instead of using the full power of the police and media to cover up events on the ground, you change your stance on the issue to reflect what is happening?

That would require admitting that left wingers were wrong for all those years and would have consequences in elections.

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

Those parties exist becomes mainstream refuses to admit problem even exists and people turn to only option which even addresses it.

 

[His Majesty]

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

Too bad we live in a democracy and not a police state, so stuff like this shouldn't be allowed to happen. This is much more than simply a mistake.

 

[Chittagong]

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech.

The existence of far right parties limits freedom of speech? What.

Freedom of speech has its limits, hate speech can become criminal as it should be. Police limiting the release of information because they are afraid it can make Sverige Demokrater (who are not far right afaik) more popular is not cautious, it's corrupt and makes police a politically allied organisation, a tool of force used by the 'correct' parties. That's the totalitarian way. That definitely should be sackable in a democratic society.

 

[SpoonyBard]

The existence of far right parties limits freedom of speech? What.

Freedom of speech has its limits, hate speech can become criminal as it should be. Police limiting the release of information because they are afraid it can make Sverige Demokrater (who are not far right afaik) more popular is not cautious, it's corrupt and makes police a politically allied organisation, a tool of force used by the 'correct' parties. That's the totalitarian way. That definitely should be sackable in a democratic society.

If you want to call Sverige Demokrater national socialist party, that's fine, I don't care. Well, as I tried to explain above, it's a complex issue, and protecting public from hate crime is something the police should also be doing.

 

[daniels]

Reaction from Police Chief Peter Ågren on the events in Sweden:





Holy shit. Surely heads will roll after this? The police keeping the truth from its citizens to serve the interests of political parties...disgusting.

Its the same in Germany even if some in here like to convince people otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ntVeFVOZyQ

Also the media does this as well some because of their own "opinion" which means they are stupid. Others because they didn't want to give ammunition to right wing idiots which is shortsighted and stupid.
For example here is a talk about the NYE cologne situation, in it Prof. Christian Pfeiffer (Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony.) tells everyone that bothers to listen that before the start of his first TWO TV interviews about the situation the journalist asked him to not talk about refugees.
Which shocked him and he basically argued back then there is no need to even start the interview, where would we be if cant mention the truth anymore?
After a bit of arguing he was "allowed" to speak his mind freely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZBgpILyMMo

Starts around around 25min in the vid, German only unfortunately.

I also like to remember people that Angela Merkel is Times 2015 person of the year and the term "Lügenpresse" (lying press abusive term basically used to call out the press and complain about censorship) was voted "ugliest word of the year" 2014 by language scientists and journalist.

 

[MisterFalcon]

If you want to call Sverige Demokrater national socialist party, that's fine, I don't care. Well, as I tried to explain above, it's a complex issue, and protecting public from hate crime is something the police should also be doing.

The NYE attacks were hate crimes as well, one ethnic group targeting another one.

 

[jimbobsmells]

If you want to call Sverige Demokrater national socialist party, that's fine, I don't care. Well, as I tried to explain above, it's a complex issue, and protecting public from hate crime is something the police should also be doing.

As others have said this is tantamount to the behaviour of a totalitarian state and is completely unacceptable in a western democracy.

 

[neorej]

- Right wingers glee for being right about the increase in sexual assaults due to immigrants / asylum seekers

- Left wingers glee for the majority of immigrants / asylum seekers not doing sexual assaults

- A really long and confusing philosophical and semantical debate about the word refugees or something like that

- Close borders now / it's our responsibility to help everyone

I think that pretty much covers it.

- No one gives two shits about the actual victims

 

[jimbobsmells]

- No one gives two shits about the actual victims

Also forgot media & police cover ups, in the interest of being politically correct.

 

[Amalthea]

- No one gives two shits about the actual victims

It's a sick, shameful thing that this is what the rapists culture links with the victims one.

In the end we humans care only about the perpetrators and the devils advocates themselves who just want to stoke the fires for their own gains.

The victims get always tossed aside, disposed. Just tools and means to the end of that meatgrinder called civilization.

 

[Alcoremortis]

Reaction from Police Chief Peter Ågren on the events in Sweden:





Holy shit. Surely heads will roll after this? The police keeping the truth from its citizens to serve the interests of political parties...disgusting.

I never understand this reasoning. They had to know they wouldn't be able to keep this a secret forever and because they tried to cover it up, it plays even more into the hands of the far right.

 

[raiot]

Its the same in Germany even if some in here like to convince people otherwise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ntVeFVOZyQ

Also the media does this as well some because of their own "opinion" which means they are stupid. Others because they didn't want to give ammunition to right wing idiots which is shortsighted and stupid.
For example here is a talk about the NYE cologne situation, in it Prof. Christian Pfeiffer (Criminological Research Institute of Lower Saxony.) tells everyone that bothers to listen that before the start of his first TWO TV interviews about the situation the journalist asked him to not talk about refugees.
Which shocked him and he basically argued back then there is no need to even start the interview, where would we be if cant mention the truth anymore?
After a bit of arguing he was "allowed" to speak his mind freely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZBgpILyMMo

Starts around around 25min in the vid, German only unfortunately.

I also like to remember people that Angela Merkel is Times 2015 person of the year and the term "Lügenpresse" (lying press abusive term basically used to call out the press and complain about censorship) was voted "ugliest word of the year" 2014 by language scientists and journalist.

To be fair, no one really needs to listen to this Dr. Pfeiffer idiot.
He is the prominent person to talk about murder simulators and violent video games corrupting our youth etc...

 

[Donos]

The Spiegel TV Special yesterday about the whole incident was suprisingly direct in some regards (potato quality here, probably deleted soon - only german). Truly fucked up. Also read the main article of the printed Spiegel and it's true that these (organised) criminals with their "dance" scam already operate in the biggest cities since a few years. A friend living in Cologne knows this well. It is also a rising issue here in Berlin (Neukölln / Kreuzberg and Friedrichshain - RAW Area). Also mostly north africans.

Maybe i misinterpreted it but a blond girl looked at me very strange and uncomfortable this morning and clutching her bag when i had to get closer to her in the Underground train because it was getting full. And i wasn't really that close to her.
Time for a #NotAllBrownPplAreCriminals t-shirt (some people take me for arab, because i have a bit brown skin color).

 

[haveheart]

- No one gives two shits about the actual victims

Sadly, yes.

This is a must-read, only in German, however.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/die-angriffe-von-koeln-waeren-sie-nur-nicht-so-dumm-14004681.html

This is not about pro or anti refugees, left or right wing agendas. It is about sexual violence against women emanating from the archaic, antiquated image of women on the side of men having this cutlural background.

I consider myself politically left but this is a problem and a problem that we have to talk about.

edit: to be more clearly: I do not want to say that misogynic violence is only coming from arabs, muslims, refugees, whatever. This kind of male violence is ofc independent of race, cultural background etc. But there is a correlation between this cultural background and this kind of violence.

 

[Sioen]

Reaction from Police Chief Peter Ågren on the events in Sweden:





Holy shit. Surely heads will roll after this? The police keeping the truth from its citizens to serve the interests of political parties...disgusting.

Sweden is such a terrible country, if there's one country that will collaps under the weight of this. It is them, pathetic how they lie to their own people and how corrupt they are.

 

[ClosingADoor]

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

If you want to call Sverige Demokrater national socialist party, that's fine, I don't care. Well, as I tried to explain above, it's a complex issue, and protecting public from hate crime is something the police should also be doing.

You don't get to say what political parties should and shouldn't exist, as long as they are not breaking the law. Far right parties have a right to exist, just like everyone else. You might not agree with them (I also don't) but that doesn't mean you should silence people. This is not a complex issue, it is a basic right to start a political party about whatever you want.

The police has no role in politics and should not be the gatekeeper of information. This has nothing to do with protection from hate crimes, it is withholding information. They should be neutral and deliver all the facts, outside of peoples private information such as names and addresses.

Political parties using information for their own gain is nothing new. A far left party would use information about successful integration as a way to get votes, a far right party does the opposite. It is not up to a police chef to say which is better.

 

[Munin]

edit: to be more clearly: I do not want to say that misogynic violence is only coming from arabs, muslims, refugees, whatever. This kind of male violence is ofc independent of race, cultural background etc. But there is a correlation between this cultural background and this kind of violence.

It is sad that you even have to specifically mention this just to protect yourself from accusations. Whataboutism is one of the most used weapons in the arsenal of the deluded left when they run out of actual arguments.

 

[Donos]

Sadly, yes.

This is a must-read, only in German, however.

http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/die-angriffe-von-koeln-waeren-sie-nur-nicht-so-dumm-14004681.html

This is not about pro or anti refugees, left or right wing agendas. It is about sexual violence against women emanating from the archaic, antiquated image of women on the side of men having this cutlural background.

I consider myself politically left but this is a problem and a problem that we have to talk about.

edit: to be more clearly: I do not want to say that misogynic violence is only coming from arabs, muslims, refugees, whatever. This kind of male violence is ofc independent of race, cultural background etc. But there is a correlation between this cultural background and this kind of violence.

There is a 2 pages essay in the new Spiegel with the same issue. If someone wants these two pages i can give a link over PM with readable pics.

 

[SpoonyBard]

You don't get to say what political parties should and shouldn't exist, as long as they are not breaking the law. Far right parties have a right to exist, just like everyone else. You might not agree with them (I also don't) but that doesn't mean you should silence people. This is not a complex issue, it is a basic right to start a political party about whatever you want.

The police has no role in politics and should not be the gatekeeper of information. This has nothing to do with protection from hate crimes, it is withholding information. They should be neutral and deliver all the facts, outside of peoples private information such as names and addresses.

Political parties using information for their own gain is nothing new. A far left party would use information about successful integration as a way to get votes, a far right party does the opposite. It is not up to a police chef to say which is better.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. If people are starting to get death threats, or rape threats etc. and molotov coctails start flying whenever the police publishes information of criminal suspects that are not native, the natural reaction is to limit the availability of that information, and only give it when the suspects have been found guilty. The police doesn't have resources to keep tab of every angry young man of any ethnicity.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. If people are starting to get death threats, or rape threats etc. and molotov coctails start flying whenever the police publishes information of criminal suspects that are not native, the natural reaction is to limit the availability of that information, and only give it when the suspects have been found guilty. The police doesn't have resources to keep tab of every angry young man of any ethnicity.

No, the natural reaction should be to take away the reason why people feel that way and not limit information. By just removing the information you get an environment where people will distrust the media, police and politicians and are pushed to far right media for their news. You are trying to limit the consequences of the anger instead of managing the source. If you don't want the far right to rise further, this is the exact opposite of what you need to do.

And by saying the native population can't handle news like this without getting violent, aren't you just as guilty of large generalizations as the people on the far right who say all foreigners are bad and criminals?

 

[haveheart]

It is sad that you even have to specifically mention this just to protect yourself from accusations. Whataboutism is one of the most used weapons in the arsenal of the deluded left when they run out of actual arguments.

What are you trying to say? Refugees are the problem? Before this there was no sexual harassment etc.? Please provide your "actual arguments".

This is not whataboutism, this is exposing the underlying problem.

"Arsenal of the deluded left". Yeah, ok, wonder where you got this wording from...

 

[SpoonyBard]

No, the natural reaction should be to take away the reason why people feel that way and not limit information. By just removing the information you get an environment where people will distrust the media, police and politicians and are pushed to far right media for their news. You are trying to limit the consequences of the anger instead of managing the source. If you don't want the far right to rise further, this is the exact opposite of what you need to do.

And by saying the native population can't handle news like this without getting violent, aren't you just as guilty of large generalizations as the people on the far right who say all foreigners are bad and criminals?

Sheesh, you want me to cure unemployement, social exclusion, stupidity and paranoia, and whatever other problems these people have? Why not get rid of religion too. I'd imagine that's easier said than done. You are talking about principles, but the reality of things is less black and white. The troublemakes are a small minority of coure, but that may be enough in some cases.

 

[daniels]

Sheesh, you want me to cure unemployement, social exclusion, stupidity and paranoia, and whatever other problems these people have? Why not get rid of religion too. I'd imagine that's easier said than done. You are talking about principles, but the reality of things is less black and white. The troublemakes are a small minority of coure, but that may be enough in some cases.

Well your plan of basically letting violent racists and people that think all cultures are equal decide what gets censored and what "truth" people are allowed to know isn't all that awesome either.. considering this type of thinking is partially responsible for the current situation and the probable rise of the far right in the future... maybe even the beginning of the end for the EU.

 

[Shredderi]

Sheesh, you want me to cure unemployement, social exclusion, stupidity and paranoia, and whatever other problems these people have? Why not get rid of religion too. I'd imagine that's easier said than done. You are talking about principles, but the reality of things is less black and white. The troublemakes are a small minority of coure, but that may be enough in some cases.

I think that the bolded is what many of the anti-refugee people think about the refugees. They know and realize that the troublemakers among the refugees are the overwhelming minority, but they think that that minority is still so sizeable that it bring too many problems. The next few years will be pretty interesting. I'm so tuned out of these things that I have no idea where things will go. My only prediction is that the anti-refugee mentality will decrease if the amount of crimes committed by the refugees decrease too and likewise the right-wing anti-refugee mentality will increase if the amount of crimes committed by the refugees increase.

 

[Kinyou]

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

Trying to hide information, which will come out sooner or later anyway, plays into the hands of the far right just as much, if not more.

 

[Tiops]

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

And this is one the bigger reasons why the right is on the rise in Europe.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Sheesh, you want me to cure unemployement, social exclusion, stupidity and paranoia, and whatever other problems these people have? Why not get rid of religion too. I'd imagine that's easier said than done. You are talking about principles, but the reality of things is less black and white. The troublemakes are a small minority of coure, but that may be enough in some cases.

No, you are trying to silence certain information because the truth is uncomfortable for your world view and are afraid certain political parties you do not agree with will gain votes from it. Which again, is not the role of the police to decide.

How can we solve all these issues when we are not allowed to name the problem and talk about it? Just hiding it and hoping it goes away never helped and it won't be any different with the new issues popping up.

Hiding that information only plays into the hands of the far right you are so afraid off, since it creates distrust for police, politics and media.

And even then, it is incredibly strange and disrespectful to the victims that the crimes they suffered from can not be talked about because you fear the political consequences.

 

[SpoonyBard]

And this is one the bigger reasons why the right is on the rise in Europe.

Eh, it's kind of offensive to right wingers to call it right, call it racism like it is.

 

[Calamari41]

In sane world far right political parties wouldn't exist, or at least didn't have political power. Their existence alone limits our freedom of speech. You're either with them or against them, and if they get some information that support their claims, they exaggerate it many times over and use it to spread their hateful agenda. In environment like this, information police would normally release to public becomes sensitive information. And sometimes mistakes do happen. Calling someone to be fired in a spot for being too careful is pretty disgusting itself.

The bolded seems to describe the left right now pretty accurately, and is the reason so many people seem to be fleeing to anybody else in the wake of what has been happening over there. "You're either with us or against us" is all fine and dandy when all you see are people waiting with flowers and teddy bears at train stations. When you are demonstrably wrong, though, there's only one thing for people to do when you maintain that they're "either with us or against us." People realize "well, I guess I'm against them."

When you find yourself needing the police and media to censor reality in order to keep your political skin on your hide, you might want to look in the mirror a little bit.

 

[Tiops]

Eh, it's kind of offensive to right wingers to call it right, call it racism like it is.

You're just showing that the left wing has the same "You're either with them or against them" position that you claim the right wing has.

 

[SpoonyBard]

You're just showing that the left wing has the same "You're either with them or against them" position that you claim the right wing has.

Right wing is mostly socially liberal (in certain parts of) Europe. I was talking about far right, which is totally different thing.

 

[Doczu]

Right wing is mostly socially liberal in Europe. I was talking about far right, which is totally different thing.

You're missing the point. Or even better, you aren't using the right rhetoric, but the far righ one. It's either with you, or against you.

 

[spekkeh]

What are you trying to say? Refugees are the problem? Before this there was no sexual harassment etc.? Please provide your "actual arguments".

This is not whataboutism, this is exposing the underlying problem.

Some thousand immigrants sexually assaulted at least 500 women that now press charges. This might well be the largest sexual assault in post second world war western Europe. And it happened exactly as the fucking racists said it would.

Before this there was no sexual harassment like this? Erm, no there wasn't. And to claim it's not a whataboutism and the underlying problem is not Arab culture, at this point I'm going to have to assume you're primarily trying to convince yourself.

Edit: apologies I jumped on this too quickly, you were arguing the same point.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Cologne attackers were of migrant origin - minister

The men suspected of attacking women in Cologne on New Year's Eve were "almost exclusively" from a migration background, mainly North African and Arab, an official report says. More than 500 criminal complaints have been filed - 40% alleging sexual assault - relating to 31 December.

His report details how a group of around 1,000 men of North African and Arabic origin gathered in the area on the evening of 31 December. From this large group, smaller groups of men formed, who then surrounded women and threatened and attacked them, he said.

These smaller groups were predominately made up of North African men who had travelled to Cologne from different cities.

Monday's report into the attacks in Cologne says that the combination of group sexual violence with robbery had not previously been seen in Germany. It notes that similar crimes took place in other parts of Germany on the 31 December, including in Hamburg.

The report describes a modus operandi known as "taharrush gamea" in Arabic, meaning group sexual harassment in crowds, and compares it to incidents reported in Cairo's Tahrir Square at the time of the Egyptian revolution.

 

[Chairman Yang]

Are there any significant left-wing anti-immigration parties in Europe right now? If so, how strong are they?

 

[Cpt.Underpants]

Holy shit, they practically organised groups with the intent to sexually assault women

Unfuckingbelievable

 

[ClosingADoor]

Are there any significant left-wing anti-immigration parties in Europe right now? If so, how strong are they?

The right wing in Europe is kind of funny. Our own far right party in the Netherlands is actually more in line with the Socialist Party when it comes to economic policy for example. I don't know of any regular left wing parties that are anti-immigration.

Cologne attackers were of migrant origin - minister

So this is an actual known "tactic" used by shitheads in Arabic countries? I knew about the stuff in Egypt, but wasn't aware this happened on more large events. Definitely sounds like groups of people went out with all intent to do this then.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

So this is an actual known "tactic" used by shitheads in Arabic countries? I knew about the stuff in Egypt, but wasn't aware this happened on more large events. Definitely sounds like groups of people went out with all intent to do this then.

it reminds me of the story where the journalist got harassed by a large group while she was reporting in Egypt. If it's getting a group to harass is an actual 'thing' that is done, then goddamn that's disgusting.

 

[Calamari41]

Cologne attackers were of migrant origin - minister

Are these the widows and orphans that people were mocked for being afraid of?

 

[Jumeira]

Getting ugly

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35280386

Riot police used water cannon to disperse anti-migrant protesters in Cologne on Saturday.

On Sunday evening six Pakistanis and a Syrian man came under attack in the centre of the west German city.

The attacks on Sunday took place in the early evening. In the first, a group of around 20 people attacked six Pakistanis, two of whom had to be treated in hospital.
Separately, five people injured a Syrian man who did not need hospital treatment.

 

[RubberJohnny]

Are there any significant left-wing anti-immigration parties in Europe right now? If so, how strong are they?

 

[SpoonyBard]

Are there any significant left-wing anti-immigration parties in Europe right now? If so, how strong are they?

Certain right wing people have argued that national socialist party was left wing. Of course that was some time ago.

 

[ClosingADoor]

it reminds me of the story where the journalist got harassed by a large group while she was reporting in Egypt. If it's getting a group to harass is an actual 'thing' that is done, then goddamn that's disgusting.

That was a bit more then just harassment unfortunately. People were assaulted and raped there.

 

[Drencrom]

Similar story breaking in Sweden about the police covering up 200 men being removed from a youth festival in Stockholm last fall. This wasn't reported because they "didn't want to play into SDs hands". SD being our very own xenophobic party.

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/sverige/overgreppen-pa-festivalen-i-stockholm-rapporterades-aldrig-vidare/



Not sure if it deserves a new thread.

Utterly disgusting

Fuck all the people that had a hand in covering this up

 

[spekkeh]

The right wing in Europe is kind of funny. Our own far right party in the Netherlands is actually more in line with the Socialist Party when it comes to economic policy for example. I don't know of any regular left wing parties that are anti-immigration.

The actual Socialist Party you mention is also against immigration, because guest workers and immigrants tend to negatively impact the job opportunities of the poor.