Introduction to programming it only gets worse doesn't it.
- Thread starter Beerman462
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Angelus Errare
Banned
I thoroughly enjoy setting up my environments on OSX and Linux.
Marty Chinn
Member
Kinda weird to see all the hate for C++ on a gaming forum when games are primarily written in C++.... There's a reason they don't write them in Java, C#, etc.
Shuggananas
Banned
oxrock
Gravity is a myth, the Earth SUCKS!
Programming is a never ending hell of things that should be simple but just don't work and for the most elusive reasons. Best news is, it's almost always your fault. More good news, at least for a good long while (especially with me) you will probably spend more time googling what the hell has gone wrong than you will actually getting anything done.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
I usually code in Atom and compile everything on the terminal when using Ubuntu. To be honest I prefer the simplicity of it.
Angelus Errare
Banned
You can create games with C# and Java. Many upon many indie Xbox 360 games are C# based. Minecraft is Java based.
With that stated, it's not at all weird to see C++ hate on a videogame forum. Just because it's what's used doesn't mean that people are obligated to praise the programming language. This forum is powered by PHP and I still think it's a shit language.
Buggy Loop
Member
I went through C++ procedural a year ago. This semester i have C++ object oriented AND ARM Cortex M microcontroller assembly to learn!!! FUCCCCCKKKK
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
You have classes that teach you how to program?
witchedwiz
Member
ignore the haters..
frankly i don't get it either, to each his own..
I like java, heck java is my primary language, but it's a slowpoke and at times and if you know what you're getting yourself into and what you're giving up, taking a plunge into a java system with some call on c++ code is NOT a failure, just a choice that carries some risk, but the rewards are sweet..
that beng said, i think they're just trolling just 'cause they feel like
cpp_is_king
Member
This is an issue of not knowing how to use your computer, not an issue with programming. You messed up on the install and either didn't set the PATH to the right location or you installed the wrong thing.
It's ok. All those people all wrong. Only person that suffers from that is themselves.
What's the biggest problem with Java's garbage collector?
Java is still here
witchedwiz
Member
maybe it's simply that he has a class where he has to produce a final class project to be evaluated and they ask him to produce it in a certain language..
e.g. our language and compilers univ course required to "pass" theory oral examination, lab (written test on theory) and a pascal compiler written in c++...
Buggy Loop
Member
For C++ yes. Assembly is not really taught but needed to control the microcontroller. - Electrical engineering
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Just asking because it would be really good for him. Every class I have is just like how you said.
That's really cool. I don't have any classes that actually teach me how to program - they just give me projects and I have to figure it out myself.
And I enjoyed what I learned about Assembly.
Laevateinn
Member
ignore the haters..
frankly i don't get it either, to each his own..
I like java, heck java is my primary language, but it's a slowpoke and at times and if you know what you're getting yourself into and what you're giving up, taking a plunge into a java system with some call on c++ code is NOT a failure, just a choice that carries some risk, but the rewards are sweet..
that beng said, i think they're just trolling just 'cause they feel like
The only really horrible language is Fortran. Fuck Fortran.
My EE program offered a 68k assembly course as well. I wish there wasn't a conflict so I didn't have to try to teach myself when I had the time.
That's the funny thing about Universities. If you want to learn how to program, you shouldn't get a CompSci degree.
Codeacious
Banned
A tip: Whenever you're using the Windows command line for simple stuff, you can just type the full path of the executable to avoid dealing with Windows PATH issues. You'll have to find where javac got put on your machine, but a quick search in a standard explorer window will work.
Many universities have shifted or will shift over to Python for introductory classes. Mine did so a few years ago.
Many universities have shifted or will shift over to Python for introductory classes. Mine did so a few years ago.
I'm grateful my college started with c++, or maybe I think that because I learned c++ first, hmm...
PeskyToaster
Member
Java is a great starting language. It's not about the actual language but the concepts.
Marty Chinn
Member
I didn't say you couldn't write a game in C# or Java; I said they were primarily written in C++. You'd never see Halo, Uncharted, etc written in C# or Java. Performance hits from garbage collection alone make them problematic.
cpp_is_king
Member
lol, you don't have to sign out and back in or restart. You only have to restart the individual app that needs to see the new environment variable value. In this case that means closing command prompt and reopening it.
RoyalLaFlame
Banned
Exactly. Python is a good language too although I know almost nothing about it.
witchedwiz
Member
uhm dunno.. i still think that java is not all that hot for games
personally i see it as a enterprise systems language..
in the low-latency ballpark i don't really know.. I know my way around in those fields both in java and in c++ (well muuuuch more in depth in java) BUT if I'm really aiming for extreme performance, I would still stick to c++..
on the php arguments... it's not a shit language, it's a language with some defects and some inconsistencies.. but frankly it does its job..
there are even some major sites written in php, and if you're not aiming to be the next facebook a pure php approach is not out of the world (provided you do your homework on the design with full horizontal scalability in mind)..
for me the only disadvantage of php is that it's WAY TOO EASY to write terribad unmaintable code, but ehh that's the price for a language that's easy to pick up
mm yes python doesn't pigeonhole you into oop so that's a good thing. we did pascal + scheme first. I thought it was a pretty great introduction. I heard they've swapped pascal for python recently though.
Last spring I spoke with a studen who was doing the internship/project course and 90% of the available projects were app/webb-focused. and they moved computer architecture to the masters program. they aren't educating programmers anymore, just "devs" or whatever the hip term is these days. it's depressing really.
I think the concepts of OOP are horrible for beginners. I also think OOP as a default is a horrible idea.
Honestly as an intro course I'd teach swift and this blog post does a good job of explaining why.
http://www.aaronblock.com/thoughts/2015/8/21/why-i-want-swift-to-be-your-first-language
http://www.aaronblock.com/thoughts/2015/8/21/why-i-want-swift-to-be-your-first-language
Angelus Errare
Banned
Well aware, I'm just confused as to why you're shocked or rather why you expect people who actual program to praise C++ just because they happen to post on a videogame forum. C++ has fans as well as people who hate it. Not really shocking.
witchedwiz
Member
frankly for me java is simply the language where it's easier to see the nature of our true OO overlords!
plus there are some advantage: the sheer amount of code guide you can find online in java far outshine any other language..
and let's not forget the sheer amount of MAINTAINED frameworks//libraries that cover a lot of fields
java is the perfect language for a comp sci degree imho
You can learn it in the first year and keep using it (and honing it) in each and every project you have to deliver..
This way by the time you graduate you should at least know your way around..
Marty Chinn
Member
Because I figure more people on a game forum who do have the knowledge and ability to program are more likely to have explored writing a game at one point or another. I figure there would be an appreciation on why you'd use C++ over another language to write games. I certainly appreciate it. Certainly beats the hell out of writing in ActionScript.
witchedwiz
Member
On this point we can agree...
let's be honest, most of us gaffer will usually be either web developers or sw developers that use java//c#//webstack (php//js//whatever)..
While there are quite some people working with c++ there's a general minority as usually what you do with pure c++ is something that you do with c++ because you cannot take any performance compromise by doing it with any other language, thus you're on "separate" playfield
imho, of course...
Depends. If you're an amateur programmer then you have way more rope to hang yourself when using C++ and you probably won't be optimizing games to the degree that using it would actually be necessary. Most amateur devs on here use Unity and C#. Using C#, or hell even javascript, is more fun than using C++ for game development IMHO.
I can appreciate C++ and the people who choose to use it though, sure.
direct_quote
Member
I'm relatively new to programming as a career, but why do you think this?
Wowfunhappy
Member
Still seems like Python would be a better starting point. Most of what you just said still applies, except it's less complex.
I don't agree with separating wheat from chaff at all. We should be trying to make computers and programming more accessible to everyone. Not all of those people will eventually go on to be professionals, but let's teach them something useful.
(disclaimer, I've never programmed in Python, though I want to learn it at some point. Also, I hate Java.)
cpp_is_king
Member
Python is ridiculously complex. If you don't think Python is complex you haven't learned enough of it (i see you said you haven't learned it yet)
JeTmAn81
Member
Get bent sir, I love me some Javascript
If you're not manually flipping flip-flop bits with fairy dust you shouldn't even call your self a programmer.
Also: Java is fine for a first language. C++ is fine for a first language. Python is fine for a first language.
Javascript isn't.
RandomExpletive
Member
A good professor makes any class better, but man good professors are invaluable for introductory programming courses.
I feel lost in here, I don't recall any major issues downloading the JDK and setting it up w/ eclipse... then again I'm on a mac sooo its probably a tad different :\
JeTmAn81
Member
Oh they finally changed that? Good show, only took what 20 years or so?
Codeacious
Banned
This sounds awesome. However, it'd be nearly useless for people that take intro programming courses to supplement another STEM degree, which is probably why most universities don't do this. But for people who actually want to learn programming/computer science, it sounds wonderful.
Yeah, I agree. A lot of students go in knowing this though, because there's a lot of money in those sorts of jobs right now.
Just_myles
Member
Dude, you pretty much summed me up in this.
I'm sad.
Don't worry. You'll figure out a way to get your development environment working, and you'll be more or less fine, with minor hiccups every now and then forever.
When you get into the professional world, you'll do exactly the same thing, and then when you try to push your "working" code into production, you will set off a billion alarms as either your code destroyed everything, or hopefully, got stopped in the testing/staging portion of the deployment pipeline.
Either way, you then get to look at someone from the operations/sysadmin/devops side, sit back, cross your arms, and sternly state "hey, it works on my machine".
When you get into the professional world, you'll do exactly the same thing, and then when you try to push your "working" code into production, you will set off a billion alarms as either your code destroyed everything, or hopefully, got stopped in the testing/staging portion of the deployment pipeline.
Either way, you then get to look at someone from the operations/sysadmin/devops side, sit back, cross your arms, and sternly state "hey, it works on my machine".
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
So glad I'm starting with Python. That's all I've got to say at the moment xD.
DragonSworne
Banned
Restart windows
Marty Chinn
Member
Top 20 replies by Programmers when their programs don't work
20. "That's weird..."
19. "It's never done that before."
18. "It worked yesterday."
17. "How is that possible?"
16. "It must be a hardware problem."
15. "What did you type in wrong to get it to crash?"
14. "There is something funky in your data."
13. "I haven't touched that module in weeks!"
12. "You must have the wrong version."
11. "It's just some unlucky coincidence."
10. "I can't test everything!"
9. "THIS can't be the source of THAT."
8. "It works, but it hasn't been tested."
7. "Somebody must have changed my code."
6. "Did you check for a virus on your system?"
5. "Even though it doesn't work, how does it feel?
4. "You can't use that version on your system."
3. "Why do you want to do it that way?"
2. "Where were you when the program blew up?"
And the Number One reply by programmers when their programs don't work:
1. "It works on my machine."
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