The Witness - Spoiler Thread (plot related/large secrets/no-puzzle solutions)

Archurro

Member
THIS IS A SPOILER TOPIC: STAY AWAY IF YOU HAVEN'T BEAT THE GAME/FINISHED THE ENDGAME OR WANT TO DISCOVER ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING BY YOURSELF
If you want puzzle tips, check out the OT. This topic will cover general musings of the island and it's greater significance.

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So I beat the endgame, had "fly over the entire island" segment, and had everything reset, which sorta bummed me out, but I figured that was the short meditative experience.

Then I discovered the secret room that was right in front of you the entire fucking time from the beginning. Saw the credits via audio, then saw the cutscene with the man on IV walking out to his garden. What the hell. Thank god we now know that the pee jug was just a prop. Hopefully.

Looked online, and there also seems to be another version of that video, but the person is healthy/not using an IV.

So my questions are(although I know there aren't answers to everything):
1. Who is the person we see the video from?
2. What determines the video we get?
3. What's the point of that small puzzle before you get into the FMV cutscene? Does that impact anything? (The one with the 2 pair, 4 blacks and 4 whites).
4. Was everything a dream?

Also, more general to the island:
1. Where are the rest of the vaults that unlock videos under the windmill?
2. Can you access the rest of the caverns in the secret hotel area?
3. Does finishing all 11 lasers unlock anything?
4. What is this game mean?
(Ok, I'm not serious with #4).
 
bump? maybe this thread is a bit too early and not enough people have finished the game yet, but I think the end and some of the larger secrets warrant discussion without going into puzzle solutions heavily.
 
This is warranted. I made a suggestion in the OP.

Still a lot to discover, and I don't think seeing the base ending is enough to go full spoiler. People should really try to get all of the lasers and pillars before going nuts, as they are the "obvious" things to push for completion.

Most players will finish the game at about 2/3rds of puzzles down, but really, about 95% or more are completely feasible without having to look up extra material or suggestions or help.
 
Once I activated all 11 lasers and finished the mountain I also started a new game and triggered the "hotel / credits" scene. The FMV I got was where he was strapped to an IV too. I'd be curious to know what triggers a healthy version of that FMV.

The tunnel / mountain area triggered by the alternate box switch stuff is crazy. The music challenge is really difficult and it seems random every time too.

I did like the recordings in this area though. Seems like they're normal people talking about the island and what kind of recordings they want in it. Was really awesome when they broke that fourth wall. Some of them are really interesting and talk about side effects and dreams (from the island?).

Definitely a lot to consider and it feels like the hidden tunnels are a whole different part of the game.
 
Reposting from the other thread but with spoiler tags removed. Will keep the chronology of the post intact

What the hell? Those are totally (not saying but I know what they look like)

Edit: oh shit and that...

Edit 2: finished. Bit confused. Right at the end it (warning literally endgame spoilers)

looks like clear Angel symbology - the elevator is glowing white, after closing the doors the next symbol is wings, and then halo. So I thought maybe you're in an episode of lost and have to earn our way out of purgatory/limbo. You just fly back to the start and get locked up. Plus the mountain (and island) is clearly an artificial construction and it looks like something went wrong (science vs faith maybe)

Finished with
426 +23
. How are there more than 100 more puzzles out there? I know of a handful (ship door and beach for instance), but not that many?



Are there any avantages to playing the new game, or should I just reload the old game to continue exploring?
 
Reposting from the other thread but with spoiler tags removed. Will keep the chronology of the post intact

What the hell? Those are totally (not saying but I know what they look like)

Edit: oh shit and that...

Edit 2: finished. Bit confused. Right at the end it (warning literally endgame spoilers)

looks like clear Angel symbology - the elevator is glowing white, after closing the doors the next symbol is wings, and then halo. So I thought maybe you're in an episode of lost and have to earn our way out of purgatory/limbo. You just fly back to the start and get locked up. Plus the mountain (and island) is clearly an artificial construction and it looks like something went wrong (science vs faith maybe)

Finished with
426 +23
. How are there more than 100 more puzzles out there? I know of a handful (ship door and beach for instance), but not that many?

11 Laser zones, 4(?) columns for world puzzles, a few for the videos, and completionist bonus area.

Once you start barking up the right tree for world puzzles, oh boy.

Did you like that floor puzzle I helped you with? That's an amazingly meta puzzle that is one of my favorite game puzzles ever.
 
I'm at 522+135+6, and missing about 5 audio logs according to the lake.

One log mentioned the island explicitly, so it's most likely what another log referred to as 'the experiment', which sounds like it was designed to get people to experience a zengasm. Obviously Blow wanted everyone who played his game to achieve the same kind of apotheosis of thought by not thinking.
 
11 Laser zones, 4(?) columns for world puzzles, a few for the videos, and completionist bonus area.

Once you start barking up the right tree for world puzzles, oh boy.

Did you like that floor puzzle I helped you with? That's an amazingly meta puzzle that is one of my favorite game puzzles ever.

Yeah I liked it a lot. Resorted to cut out shapes in the end :)

I finished with 11 lasers but only 425 puzzles (+24). I know there are some in the treetops that I didn't finish (do alternate exits count as a newly solved one?)


And what's all this about FMVs and hidden areas?
 
I'm at 522+135+6, and missing about 5 audio logs according to the lake.

One log mentioned the island explicitly, so it's most likely what another log referred to as 'the experiment', which sounds like it was designed to get people to experience a zengasm. Obviously Blow wanted everyone who played his game to achieve the same kind of apotheosis of thought by not thinking.
Without massive spoilers for it, what's the +6 about?
 
In the new game, if you see the secret area and unlock it, will it be unlocked for your pre-endgame save? Trying to figure out the best route forward without blocking things off.
 
OP is assuming some people know some things they might not know. Let's break down what there is to uncover in Witness's Endgame:

There are three 'endings' (that I know of)

- Standard. 7 lasers, descend down the mountain, get in the elevator, game resets.
- Find the hidden credits room at the starting area + trippy FMV of sick man.
- Access the caves by descending deeper into the mountain after activating 11 lasers and looking at the bottom of the mountaintop box. In this cave system are the audio logs that actually explain the island's story somewhat, as well as the final challenge achievement.
- As an aside, doing this final challenge DOES give you a way to reset the gate at the game's beginning, meaning you can accomplish everything on one save file - that puzzle isn't missable after all.

The highest puzzle count (that I know of) is 523 + 135 +6

Most endgame players seem to have 520 or 521 - unknown how a few players have a few more. It probably doesn't mean much - they probably much activated a few more of the non-puzzle "utility" panels, like maybe each boat panel?

The environmental obelisk puzzles seem to just be fun bonuses
As of now, they seem to unlock nothing and have no greater purpose. There are 135 of them. Completing an entire obelisk turns it white and adds a third number to your save file. This final save file detail seems strange, given that its redundant - if you have +135, you must have +6 as well. And why track +6 if the white obelisks do nothing?

There are environmental perspective puzzles IN THE VIDEO CLIPS
Probably the coolest "oh shit" endgame moment for me, besides the FMV, is that there are actual line puzzles hidden inside the theater clips themselves. Truly crazy.

Everything around the central lake has meaning
The lanterns turn on when you activate a laser. The white flowers bloom when you find an audio log. The yellow flowers bloom when you find a cave exit. The clams open when you open a theater hexagon vault. The fountains correspond to the obelisks.

Unclear what the lake statue means
The statue of the woman in the lake slowly emerges from the lake over the course of the game. As it emerges it "moves" - changing form. As if it's animating very very slowly. As far as I know, we don't know what this means yet. My theory is that it's a marker of play time - like it moves a bit every hour spent in-game.

Unclear what the hints in the final FMV means
Why play music tones on the dishes? Why lock and unlock the door numerous times? Maybe these are done for story-telling purposes (the subject has become puzzle-obsessed? Sees patterns where there are none?) Maybe these are pointing to one final ARG-like puzzle? Unknown.

Unclear if there's hidden meaning in the hidden puzzle at the game's beginning
There's a hidden puzzle on a pillar in the beginning area that uses the triangles. Solving this activates a puzzle on the floor of that area. This puzzle is tricky - it has numerous correct solutions, but one INCORRECT solution actually unlocks an environmental perspective puzzle.

Now, this perspective puzzle could be all there is to it. But the multi-step process, the required knowledge of the triangles, and the red-herring correct solutions have led to some folks thinking there might be a little more to it.

The Ending FMV sounds like it was filmed a week before launch

If this tweet from Blow asking to borrow plastic tubing is to be believed, the ending FMV was filmed January 17 or 18, just ~9 days before the game launched, and ~2 days before press copies went out. o.0

Edit: A couple more quick things - if you look closely, there are obvious hints that the island is artificial. Besides the obvious (water pipes in the mountain, the perfect-ness of it). The colorful trees are actually PAINTED that color, for example. And you can see green paint splashed on the rocks in some areas of the jungle. And as far as I know, there is no plausible chatter about a second secret FMV, although it's possible I've just missed it.
 
But what kind of spoiler thread doesn't have spoilers in it :(. You'll know when you get it, it's pretty simple really.
I said massive, like ruining what they are. I just kinda want to know what to look for. I'm in the secret room near the ending now clearing puzzles, is it in there?
 
There are environmental perspective puzzles IN THE VIDEO CLIPS
Probably the coolest "oh shit" endgame moment for me, besides the FMV, is that there are actual line puzzles hidden inside the theater clips themselves. Truly crazy.

This blew my mind when I discovered this. Funny thing is
they're not always at the front and you have to go around to the back of the video.
http://i.imgur.com/T6ygf0d.png This clip felt like it was 10 - 15 mins long too. Insane stuff.
 
Everything around the central lake has meaning
The lanterns turn on when you activate a laser. The white flowers bloom when you find an audio log. The yellow flowers bloom when you find a cave exit. The clams open when you open a theater hexagon vault. The fountains correspond to the obelisks.
Are you sure about the yellow(they look orange to me) flowers? Some audio logs are colored orange, so I figured that was what they were. Although, unless there's something buggy going on, they also don't always correspond to the same color of flower that opens...
 
Are you sure about the yellow(they look orange to me) flowers? Some audio logs are colored orange, so I figured that was what they were. Although, unless there's something buggy going on, they also don't always correspond to the same color of flower that opens...

No, I'm not sure :)

I just know those orange flowers correspond to the caves. It could be the audio logs. I'm at work and can't double-check. I thought it was cave entrances, but it might not be. It's one or the other.
 
No, I'm not sure :)

I just know those orange flowers correspond to the caves. It could be the audio logs. I'm at work and can't double-check. I thought it was cave entrances, but it might not be. It's one or the other.
It's weird, because I've come across some logs that don't activate flowers anywhere, despite the fact that I've never listened to them. And then some oranges activate whites and vice versa. I'm only missing one more right now.

Also, would you happen to have any images of the statue you mentioned with various playtimes? That would make it pretty clear if that's the relevant 'status' it reflects.
 
Also, would you happen to have any images of the statue you mentioned with various playtimes? That would make it pretty clear if that's the relevant 'status' it reflects.

I don't have any images, but you literally can't miss it. It's featured prominently in the normal ending flythrough, and it's right there, in the lake. It's big.
 
Thanks GDJustin. I'd done 11 lasers but not notice no extra to unlock - it's literally on the bottom of the box the guy on the mountain is holding?
 
Thanks GDJustin. I'd done 11 lasers but not notice no extra to unlock - it's literally on the bottom of the box the guy on the mountain is holding?

If you haven't seen it, you're in for a fun time. :)

If you have all 11 lasers, yes, look at the bottom of the box, and then descend deeper into the mountain. You'll find your way from there.

I think it's a shame that such a tiny thing is going to block the progress of so many people that went through all the trouble to get all 11 lasers.... it's something that's crazy hard to spot on your own, honestly.
 
I've finished all 11 lasers and I'm about to do the top of the mountain, if I do the final puzzle do I get thrown back into the world with everything I've already done still completed? Or does it start me fresh?

Also, does anyone know why the Desert laser doesn't point to the top of the mountain? It just points off past the coast into the horizon to what looks like nowhere.
 
Once you get the "ending" you can reload your save from right before it ends.

You have to correct that laser yourself, follow the path of the laser and there's a mirror in the town that will let you redirect it.
 
I've finished all 11 lasers and I'm about to do the top of the mountain, if I do the final puzzle do I get thrown back into the world with everything I've already done still completed? Or does it start me fresh?

Also, does anyone know why the Desert laser doesn't point to the top of the mountain? It just points off past the coast into the horizon to what looks like nowhere.

You need to fix that laser. Poke around town.

The end of the game does indeed loop you back to the start, but it saves just before this if you want to return to your old save.

It is UNKNOWN if anything is different in this second loop... nothing I've heard about so far, and that would be kinda crappy if so...? I think it's just thematic.
 
I finished the game earlier today, don't know anything beyond that, haven't even dared look at this thread, but I just realized that the island flyover at the end traces a path.

And now I'm leaving this thread again to think about that.
 
Well, I got all the flowers in the lake(and pretty much everything else), but nothing super special seems to have happened. Only at 522 puzzles though. I don't feel like scouring the island again for possibly unsolved things...yet. My only idea is untouched elevator buttons.

I don't have any images, but you literally can't miss it. It's featured prominently in the normal ending flythrough, and it's right there, in the lake. It's big.
I think you misunderstood me, I meant images of the statue along with the various playtimes those images were taken at. The one in my game has emerged a little bit past the right arm/chesty region, and steam says I'm at 52 hours.
 
Oh. No, sorry - I don't have any. My game seemed to split off a new save every ~100 puzzles or so, presumably for safety. You can really see the statue differences by reloading that save and checking.
 
Oh. No, sorry - I don't have any. My game seemed to split off a new save every ~100 puzzles or so, presumably for safety. You can really see the statue differences by reloading that save and checking.
Wouldn't that make it just as likely that the statue tracks puzzle progress?

edit: One other possibility for puzzle progress: are all of your lasers pulsing? Ten of mine pulse back and forth between some color(I think yellow or red) and blue, but the one coming from the symmetry peninsula is a stable blue. I've already looked around that area but I couldn't find any unsolved things.
 
Someone came in a Twitch stream I was watching and dropped some cryptic knowledge. Said he was a tester on the game and it took him 8 months to complete the game. Now I'm looking for elaboration on some things he hinted:

- Are there multiple debug rooms?
- What's the deal with the windmill?
- Is there anything missable that forces you to restart the game? I know the first debug room can be accessed either at the beginning or way later, but is there anything else?
 
Someone came in a Twitch stream I was watching and dropped some cryptic knowledge. Said he was a tester on the game and it took him 8 months to complete the game. Now I'm looking for elaboration on some things he hinted:

- Are there multiple debug rooms?
- What's the deal with the windmill?
- Is there anything missable that forces you to restart the game? I know the first debug room can be accessed either at the beginning or way later, but is there anything else?

The windmill has three trace puzzles on it.

going back to my first save 390+100+1

looking for with puzzle resets the light gate
at the beginning with the sun

That solution is hidden at the very very end of the game.



I'm at 513 puzzles solved: not bothering with the challenge.

During my playthrough I noticed a lot of angel symbolism. There is a statue by the symmetry panels that shows a woman with bird feet. Then in the asian building, the shutters on the front block light to reveal three images. The first is a normal human. The second has bird feet. The third has wings, bird feet, and is playing a trumpet. I also found wing patterns in the final elevator panels.

Not sure what it means, since the end game audio logs go a different direction. One audio log was Ashley Johnson talking as if she tried out the experiment, but couldn't remember it since she never remembers dreams. Does this correspond to the dev ending with the man waking up? Is the game his hallucination/dream?
 
I'm a bit miffed that there's not much there to the story. Ah hell, I've decided to take the FMV at face value. Nuthin' but a VR vidya game from the future.

BTW, in the path that leads to the cinema room, I can see a room through a door that I have not yet reached, plus a path right above your head. How do you reach this?
 
BTW, in the path that leads to the cinema room, I can see a room through a door that I have not yet reached, plus a path right above your head. How do you reach this?

Read this thread! You have 100 more puzzles to complete.
 
I might do the early puzzle in new game just to see it, then work towards redoing it at the end game just so it is all in one save.

Might take a day off today, my brain is totally fried.
 
Seriously, this music challenge or whatever the hell it is, is going to give me nightmares..

I CAN'T DO IT!!

I actually completed on first try when I muted the damn game. In the Hall of the Mountain King stresses me THE FUCK out. I guess that was the point though.
 
DO people know what's up with the bamboo area? I haven't done anything there besides find a couple environmental puzzles. The noises coming from the tree really creep me out.
 
Cross-posting from the other thread, my opinion on the story now that I got the highest count of panels known, but I'm no pro regarding it:

I decided to take a bit of a look at the game in general and try to see if I could piece what I thought was the message. In the end, I saw some people that had similar ideas and am a bit confident about it, so I'm going to post it in here if anyone wants to start a discussion about it.

I think everything (story-wise; motifs; all that) you can find on the witness is intentional and ends up in a net positive. Yes, even the seemingly random videos, and even the environmental puzzle that has you wait a full hour while he mocks you in the background that you're only doing so in order to collect everything. So even if something feels like a bit of a stretch in this, I'll try to explain it or I think it's deeply based on world building.

There are two 'halves' regarding The Witness' story. One is about you - as someone new to the island. It doesn't matter what your identity is, however - what it matters is what you go through, the places you see and the things you do. What matters is the events that you see unfold. You're literally your own witness to your own journey and the things around you, and I don't think the title was chosen for being a 'catchy word with impact'. But what exactly are you witnessing? Well - this ties directly into the two halves. You're witnessing first hand your own process of learning and discovery. You're learning new languages, learning shortcuts, beginning to know the ins and outs of the island... I think this also ties with how the puzzles are presented to you - your only weapon is knowledge, and your assumptions, and the world won't mold to your assumptions - you have to see the world for what it is and keep reacting around it.

And the second half is about creation, and the creator of the island - which I think is fair to say, it's about Blow. I know it sounds a bit narcisistic, but I think a 'self-insertion' works well at times, like all the confusion surrounding 'The Beginner's Guide'. Talking about creation, I think it works so well because it doubles as a creation of the island, and of the actual game. The mountain was a factory where new ideas were made, iterated upon, revised, and discarded. Things begin to get a little bit glitchy, off-set. You are introduced to a lot of new concepts in rapid-fire sucession, only for them not to be touched that much later on. You can also see that in the statues of the island - on the outside, even if there are statues of thieves and things like that, you still get very much the picture of a live world, with people living, friends being friends and enemies being enemies - but as you begin to go up the mountain, where gadgets are being set-up, there are people arguing despite making the trek together, and as you go down, you can see the workshops getting more and more messy, until you end on the 'red cave', where a single 'creator' stands over a panel trying to tie everything together. Now this is not my analogy but I agree when I saw someone say it can be compared to Development Hell - near the end, deadlines approaching (everyone got 'statued' in the middle of setting up everything).

And in the end, we have the 'sea'. A sense of serenity, with puzzles still being hard, but something that shows us that everything was done. It paid off. You are asked, as a player, to apply all of your knowledge (besides the ones discarded in the factory hell) in one last challenge. Before going back to the start. Time to begin a new journey, learn new things, see what you accomplished, start anew. It doesn't matter who you are, what matters is that our experiences, what we learned and how we adapted to our assumptions being denied, and how we interpreted everything around us - THAT is what makes us important, unique as a person, and what makes everything have been worth. Maybe things aren't at face value. Maybe you'll be tricked. But that's up to us to discover.

And I think one of the biggest discoveries (and also support for this 'interpretation'I think it's clear that the island was 'created'. Not in only a sense of 'here's something artificial', but in a sense of an actual company setting out to make something. We can see this not only be the many couches and pillows scattered through apparently no reason, but also because you can always see a sort of a 'sun' motif throughout the island. The gate right at the beginning, there's some perfume bottles scattered, there's even calling cards around and that is not even going into the developer's ending which multiply the whole thing by a thousand, even if it's a bit weird. To be honest at this point I feel like the developer's ending is not just an easter egg ending, but an actual one: the map for it is beyond the challenge area, and if you got everything it should be the last thing you do, including being your last environmental puzzle, and it doubles as how the story is about both the creation of the island and the creation of the game. It's not a 'game he's playing', but he's coding and there's concept art on the walls, and as the dev he got obsessed just like the statue in the development hell. You can see him trying to start developing the triangle puzzles and I think it's why they're scattered around for most of the island as if they had no purpose: they're an 'unfinished mechanic'.

Yes, I do feel sometimes the game feels a bit more pretentious than I'd like (like the chanting of words in the end, some of the audio logs...), but I think anything a bit meta ends up suffering for that and overall I think it makes for a very cohesive experience - and in the end, what matters is that I witnessed such things and that I made that interpretation - my point of view on everything is what gives the experience value. I don't think it's a cop-out to say that ok, maybe there are other valid explanations for the actual story, and it is a bit too abstract, but I think the whole idea behind the learning and discovery process stands and that's part of the beauty of it.

This ended up being bigger than I expected but god I love this game.
 
Also, by the way - the 4 floor/perspective puzzles on the cave seem overly simple for the area and make different, mechanic-ish noises when you solve them (I didn't pay attention to that but have been told by a couple people). A small group of people are trying to see if it's different combinations or if there's a different part of the island that hints at it, to see if it opens up a new path or something like it. There has to be more puzzles dagnab it.
 
So what's the deal with the small black/brown-ish area of the map that has absolutely nothing, except for a broken room with a statue kneeling, gesturing towards a cup?

Read this thread! You have 100 more puzzles to complete.

Yeah I've been inside the mountain caves, just didn't find a path that lead me to the theater.
 
And what's up with this section of the game? You solve a buncha puzzles, which ends up with you here... Which doesn't contribute at all to the rest of the game.

nGT5w1U.jpg


sDGBCWW.jpg
 
Finished the game earlier today and its amazing how you are so used to recognize dot-line patterns by the end that the instant the game restarts you can tell that the very first corridor is an enviromental puzzle. And right after you come out, the sun one is pretty obvious too. That is one hell of a great game design


So what's the deal with the small black/brown-ish area of the map that has absolutely nothing, except for a broken room with a statue kneeling, gesturing towards a cup?

Yeah, only thing I found on that area was an audio log, and its not exactly on the room with the statue and the golden cup.
 
I suspect there's some bigger meta puzzle that nobody has solved yet.

Anyhow, has Blow said anything about Sagan? Is the quote about "they wanted too much money" a reference to the RL Sagan estate managers?
 
I swear I saw in a discussion somewhere someone posting the source videos of the ones we can see in the theatre. I'd like to compare some of them. The flickering blue screen in video 5, along with the strange shadows projected by the plants on the right (strangely reminiscent of the temple +puzzles), are weird. Anybody happens to know of those video sources ?
 
The final video with the woman speaking freaks me out. Why is she talking like that haha

I still need to find 3-4 more of those though. Have no clue where they might be.

I currently found a tiny room in the town with two panels which looks to be in a soundproof room. I brute forced my way through where the wire lit up. Followed it and now I have no clue what to do in this blue room... I did the middle panel and it made everything green, and now I'm stuck.
 
I currently found a tiny room in the town with two panels which looks to be in a soundproof room. I brute forced my way through where the wire lit up. Followed it and now I have no clue what to do in this blue room... I did the middle panel and it made everything green, and now I'm stuck.

Those are some of them most difficult puzzles in the game (imo), you need to fully understand the bunker rules for those.
 
Those are some of them most difficult puzzles in the game (imo), you need to fully understand the bunker rules for those.
The bunker took me hours.

Guess I'll buckle up tonight and try to tackle it. Gonna go back to the bunker and try to learn more.
 
FYI if you've got 522 panels and wonder which is missing, it might be the starting area one - it counts as two panels, one when you remove the force field at the beginning of the game, and another when you re-activate the force field.
 
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