The New Hampshire Primary |Feb 9|: Live Free or Die

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Manmademan said:
Fucking This.

Let me spell this out for that particular junior member.

Minorities have had white politicians floating in promising them the moon since before the civil rights era, and the vast majority of said politicians are full of shit. Naturally, minority voters- especially black voters- are extremely skeptical whenever a politician says anything. Clinton gets a free pass because not only was her Husband an extremely well liked president by the black community, but she worked within the Obama administration and is widely viewed as Obama's preferred candidate.

Speaking of Obama, Black Voters were skeptical of HIM as well and backed Clinton right up until Obama proved he wasn't Jesse Jackson 2.0 by getting white voters to carry him to victory in Iowa.

Bernie's entire rhetoric of "dismantle the banks", "free college", "revamp the tax structure", etc etc has been met with a resounding "oh yeah? how?" from every single minority voter I can think of, and there is not one single valid explanation as to how any of what bernie wants to do gets past a republican congress.

Until he manages to prove he's more than just talk, he's going to strike out with minorities as he has been for months. As it is, Bernie's rhetoric isn't any more realistic than Trump claiming to put up walls to keep out Mexicans.
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Co-signing this. Pragmatism is a significant component of the opinion and decision-making process of everybody in my family who is politically active. I obviously can't speak for all minorities but boy I wish this narrative what "we just don't know any better" would die :/

neurosisxeno said:
Because they are so pumped to work with Hillary if she wins? That argument makes no sense considering they have spent the last decade attacking Hillary as hard as they could, and she's still considered a safe bet to win.
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They'll both have issues getting stuff passed but I appreciate that she isn't promising the stars. I'm more concerned that there will be a bigger backlash among young voters when Bernie can't get his plans passed because of higher, unjustified, expectations.
 
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Rubenov said:
Is it that hard to believe in something and stick with it? Otherwise you're just playing the game for personal gain, and I understand most politicians are like this. I guess Repubs are better at sticking to their guns than Dems.
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Is it possible that a person maybe changes their mind? Is that allowed?
 
Rubenov said:
Is it that hard to believe in something and stick with it? Otherwise you're just playing the game for personal gain, and I understand most politicians are like this. I guess Repubs are better at sticking to their guns than Dems.
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It's not impossible for people to change their opinion. Especially for something like gay marriage, where the entire country's opinion on it changed over time.
 
Voysa Reezun said:
The funny thing is, of course, that Bill was notoriously terrible for black people. He toughened crime laws that hurt black people disproportionately, NAFTA caused a lot of jobs to leave the U.S. that hurt black folks, who are last-hired and first-fired...but he showed up on Arsenio and played a sax.

Toni Morrison's little narrative that he was the first black president was bullshit and a clear illustration of style over substance. I won't hold Hillary responsible for how Bill hurt black folks in the '90s, but it's a real shame if black voters like Hillary because they like Bill. I don't know why the fuck black people should like Bill if one looks at the facts of his presidency.
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This. So much this. I'm black and I don't totally understand the support for Hillary among a lot of my peers. We've had incremental change for 8 years. How's that worked for black people in America?
 
Elfforkusu said:
I'm not just talking about Bernie, they all do this nonsense. I mean, it makes sense, it's a photo op...
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Oh no I know. I was just saying, usually it's not so obvious on his campaign's part. Might see a black individual close by is all. But not like so many right behind him like now.
 
Slacker said:
Serious question, why do you say that?
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It's not like I'm alone in that and I'm not even a Democrat.

From what I know and hear of Bernie, I believe he is sincere in what he says and he truly does believe it all. For Hillary, I believe that instead of saying what she believes she says anything that will get people to support her. I don't even agree with a lot of what Sanders says, but at least I believe that I can trust him. There are tons of people, republican and democrat, that feels the same way.
 
Speaking of Bernie voters with high expectations, I wish they would keep them in check. I hope Sanders win knowing he won't be able to do most of the stuff he wants to do so as to reduce the influence of third way democrats.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Is it possible that a person maybe changes their mind? Is that allowed?
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I guess so, I'm reflecting on my own thoughts; I've always viewed gay marriage as something that should've always been there, and I thought invading both Afghanistan and Iraq were a mistake. I figured a politician could've thought the same as me in both these occasions even back then.

It's possible, but I'll always be skeptical.
 
Voysa Reezun said:
The funny thing is, of course, that Bill was notoriously terrible for black people. He toughened crime laws that hurt black people disproportionately, NAFTA caused a lot of jobs to leave the U.S. that hurt black folks, who are last-hired and first-fired...but he showed up on Arsenio and played a sax.

Toni Morrison's little narrative that he was the first black president was bullshit and a clear illustration of style over substance. I won't hold Hillary responsible for how Bill hurt black folks in the '90s, but it's a real shame if black voters like Hillary because they like Bill. I don't know why the fuck black people should like Bill if one looks at the facts of his presidency.
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The funny thing is, Bill Clinton was a president that actually BOTHERED to reach out to the Black community and nominate prominent blacks into government after 12 years of being demonized as welfare queens and criminals by the Reagan/Bush administration. Hell, I'm pretty sure they blamed AIDS on us too. I don't know how old you are, but living through that shit was AWFUL.

Yeah, the 90s crack epidemic and subsequent crime explosion led to some aggressive expansion of state and federal prisons, but you were looking at an era where violent crime was double to triple the rate of current day. That was going to happen no matter who the president was, and there were more than a few black people that were in favor of it. No one enjoyed crack fueled shootouts in DC, black or not.

Keep in mind as well that Clinton presided over a period of relative peace, wealth and prosperity at all economic levels, after a bush era recession and prior to yet ANOTHER bush recession and 8 years of nigh endless war.

So no, Black voters having fond memories of the clinton presidential years is not irrational, nor does it revolve around Arsenio Hall OR Toni Morrison- and if you had read her column in which she refers to Clinton it was not meant as as flattery or an endorsement.
 
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